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Poll: Is China exerting strong pressure on Pakistan to end the war in Afghanistan?
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Is China exerting strong pressure on Pakistan to end the war in Afghanistan?

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Default Has China pressured Pakistan to working for peace in Afghanistan? - 07-20-2015, 04:27 PM

1. In the past half a year or so, the real ruler of Pakistan, the head of the army and also the ISI chief have been flying to Kabul almost regularly.

This is unprecedented and signifies a major if not historic change.

2. We have had the Taliban drop their almost 15 year line that they will never negotiate with the Afghan government in Kabul but only with the Americans.

For the Taliban (and their supporters on this forum), the Kabul government is the "puppet" and America is the "puppet master", why negotiate with the puppet and not the actual puppet master?

It's obvious that the Pakistanis have told the Pakistani-based "Afghan" Taliban to start working for some sort of solution or at least be seen to be so.

But why this change?

Pakistan is a brutal country which has carried out genocide and mass rape in Bangladesh in 1971, slaughtered thousands of Mohajirs in Karachi in the 1990s, levelled Waziristan to the ground and created 1 million Pashtun refugees in the past year.

If Israel made 1 million Palestinians from Gaza homeless refugees the world outcry would be greater.

In short Pakistan is a mafia-state, and the mafia and other thugs only respect force and power.

So some sort of strong power must have moved Pakistan to changing its Afghan policy (destabilizing the country and inserting a compliant proxy and render it a weak vassal state).

What do others think?

@Toramana @Loy Afghanistan @Kushan Prince @ComradePashtun @kunar1990 @DSM0305


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Default 07-20-2015, 05:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Bengal_Tiger View Post
1. In the past half a year or so, the real ruler of Pakistan, the head of the army and also the ISI chief have been flying to Kabul almost regularly.

This is unprecedented and signifies a major if not historic change.

2. We have had the Taliban drop their almost 15 year line that they will never negotiate with the Afghan government in Kabul but only with the Americans.

For the Taliban (and their supporters on this forum), the Kabul government is the "puppet" and America is the "puppet master", why negotiate with the puppet and not the actual puppet master?

It's obvious that the Pakistanis have told the Pakistani-based "Afghan" Taliban to start working for some sort of solution or at least be seen to be so.

But why this change?

Pakistan is a brutal country which has carried out genocide and mass rape in Bangladesh in 1971, slaughtered thousands of Mohajirs in Karachi in the 1990s, levelled Waziristan to the ground and created 1 million Pashtun refugees in the past year.

If Israel made 1 million Palestinians from Gaza homeless refugees the world outcry would be greater.

In short Pakistan is a mafia-state, and the mafia and other thugs only respect force and power.

So some sort of strong power must have moved Pakistan to changing its Afghan policy (destabilizing the country and inserting a compliant proxy and render it a weak vassal state).

What do others think?

@Toramana @Loy Afghanistan @Kushan Prince @ComradePashtun @kunar1990 @DSM0305
Remember when I predicted this just 1 or 2 weeks ago? I told you guys only China can make porkistan to obey. Now the thing is. UK/USA have power over Porkistanis as well. So this will lead to a conflict inside porkistanis with pro east vs pro western.

Porkistan will burn harder soon.
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Default 07-20-2015, 05:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Loy Afghanistan View Post
Remember when I predicted this just 1 or 2 weeks ago? I told you guys only China can make porkistan to obey. Now the thing is. UK/USA have power over Porkistanis as well. So this will lead to a conflict inside porkistanis with pro east vs pro western.

Porkistan will burn harder soon.
There are a lot of idiots on this forum, but at least we have sensible people such as yourself on this forum wrora.

1. Yes, only an idiot (and as I said there are a few on this forum) would not believe that Pakistan's leaders have been flying to Kabul lots of times in the past few months and now working on some sort of solution based on some sort of external compulsion or pressure.

This pressure is not internal i.e. from the murderous Pakistani army or ISI, but external.

Why now?

What is the difference?

The difference is China.

2. The Taliban supporters on this forum would like us to believe their glorious "heroes" the Taliban have nothing whatsoever to do with Pakistan.

The same Pakistan in which they live.

The same Pakistan in which they have just had the talks, Murree.

Of course the Taliban are just in Pakistan, without any involvement or support from the Pakistan army or ISI, just like Swiss tourists roaming the mountains of Swat, harmless foreigners who the authorities do not care about.

*sarcasm*


The Taliban themselves would not have dropped their historical demand for direct negotiations with America unless it was for some sort of pressure on them.

I wonder what that could be?



Maybe, just maybe...pressure from the Pakistanis?


Anyway aside from the Taliban-supporters on this forum, normal people know that Pakistan sponsors the Taliban and have pressurized them to try and create some sort of resolution with the Afghan government or at least give that impression, this new change in Pakistani policy can only be a result of an external force applying pressure on Pakistan. It's definitely not the US but China.

China is offering Pakistan just under $50 billion worth of investment and has the ability to apply both hard pressure and incentives on the murderous generals of Rawalpindi who rule Pakistan.

Anyway I doubt these guys (below) will ever rule Afghanistan ever again, and only as junior coalition partners where their ideology will be heavily diluted:



Pakistani-sponsored Taliban beating Afghan women.



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Default 07-22-2015, 08:08 PM

Pakistan and China ready to become guarantors of Afghan peace deal

By KHAAMA PRESS - Wed Jul 22 2015, 8:56 am


As the Afghan officials are expecting to sit-in for the second round of peace talks with the Taliban group in the near future, the Pakistani officials have said Islamabad and Beijing are ready to become guarantors of a possible peace deal.

A senior Pakistani official has said Pakistan has no problem in playing its role beyond that a facilitator if talks make progress and all sides agree.
“We are ready to go the extra mile. We are even willing to become guarantors for any peace agreement,” the official speaking on the condition of anonymity told The Express Tribune.

The Foreign Affairs Ministry of China also issued a statement stating Beijing was ready to work with relevant parties and play a constructive role in achieving broad and inclusive peace and reconciliation in Afghanistan.
The anti-government armed militant groups including Haqqani Network members and Taliban group representatives attended peace talks with the Afghan officials in Islamabad, the capital city of Pakistan earlier this month.
The meeting was also attended by officials from Pakistan, China and the United States where the Afghan officials and representatives of the Taliban group agreed to hold the next round of talks on reconciliation process after the holy month of Ramadan.

https://www.khaama.com/pakistan-and-...eace-deal-9521


Pakistan has spent decades destabilizing Afghanistan and creating bloodshed and suffering there, so for them now to abandon their policy of "strategic depth" (a weak and war-torn Afghanistan) and say they are willing to be a guarantor for peace is just another reflection of the pressure the Chinese are piling on them.


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Default 07-23-2015, 01:41 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/wo...sing.html?_r=0
Taliban Were Authorized to Talk, Afghan Envoys Say

By MUJIB MASHALJULY 9, 2015






Rejecting claims that they had met with an unauthorized Taliban delegation, Afghan government envoys said on Thursday that the insurgents they held initial talks with in Pakistan this week had the blessing of the Taliban’s deputy leader, Mullah Akhtar Muhammad Mansour.


The comments by Afghan government envoys, briefing the news media in Kabul for the first time since their return from the talks, added to speculation that there was a widening rift among the Taliban’s leadership over the Afghan peace process. On Wednesday, a representative of the Taliban’s official political office in Qatar claimed that the talks had been “hijacked” by Pakistani officials who had brokered a meeting with unauthorized Taliban representatives.



Mullah Mansour is believed to be locked in a struggle for influence with other senior Taliban commanders, and he has used his credentials as a confidant of the insurgency’s reclusive leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, to seed the group’s ranks with more of his loyalists in recent years.
An increasingly splintered Taliban movement would have serious repercussions for the peace process, raising questions about how much cooperation Taliban leaders in favor of negotiating could command.
But members of the Afghan delegation expressed optimism for the process ahead. During the late-night discussions in Murree, a resort town near the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, the two sides agreed to seek a peaceful end to the conflict by attending regular meetings, the officials said. The sides also drew up a list of all the issues and demands for the negotiations.


Hekmat Khalil Karzai, the Afghan deputy foreign minister who attended the talks, said the government’s delegation had set no preconditions and was willing to engage the Taliban on any of the group’s demands, including the release of prisoners and the future of American military forces in Afghanistan.
“We went with good intentions and good authority,” Mr. Karzai said. “We said we are willing to discuss anything, but within a framework that leads to a continuous process.”
He added, “We will let prisoners out, but on the condition that they give us guarantees they won’t kill innocent people anymore.”


The delegations also discussed the possibility of a temporary cease-fire during the three-day festival of Eid al-Fitr, which will signify the end of fasting for Ramadan later this month, the officials said, without elaborating on whether an agreement had been reached. But specific methods “to stop the bloodletting” will be the central topic in the next round of negotiations, said Azizullah Din Mohamed, a member of the Afghan government’s High Peace Council who was part of the Afghan delegation.


With the Afghan government under severe pressure from Taliban offensives in several provinces, the public will mostly judge the talks on whether a visible reduction in the violence is achieved, said Haroun Mir, a political analyst. Decreasing the bloodshed would also be a test of the authority of the delegation that represented the Taliban.




“Without a reduction of violence, the Afghan government won’t be able to sell this to the people,” Mr. Mir said.


While the meeting this week was hailed as a breakthrough in Kabul, the Afghan capital, concerns have remained about just what faction of the insurgency was present.


Mr. Karzai, who admitted to rifts among the Taliban, said the Afghan envoys had been assured that the delegation they met had permission from Mullah Mansour and the rest of the Taliban leadership based in Pakistan. He would not describe how that assurance was given. But a diplomatic official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the talks, said Pakistan’s military spy chief had vouched for the standing of the Taliban delegation with the insurgents’ leadership council.


What Pakistan managed to deliver at Murree were members of the Taliban closest to its establishment, some analysts and Taliban members believed. The insurgent delegation included Mullah Abbas Akhund, a member of the movement’s health commission and a longtime liaison with the Pakistani government, according to a member of the Taliban’s official political office in Qatar. The delegation also included a representative from the Haqqani insurgent network, Afghan attendees said.


The political office is now deciding whether Mullah Akhund “is still trusted” after he gave in to Pakistani pressure and attended the meeting without permission, the Qatar office representative said.
Some analysts expressed doubt that Mullah Mansour had given his full blessing to the delegation, saying the claim did not fit with the developments in the recent months.


On the urging of Afghanistan’s president, Ashraf Ghani, the Pakistani military increased pressure on the Taliban’s leadership to sit down for direct talks months ago. But the pressure seemed to backfire in some ways. Members of the office in Qatar, long seen as official representatives of the Taliban’s highest leadership, expressed dismay that the Afghan government saw them as Pakistani proxies. The insurgency began its deadly spring offensive anyway.


Mr. Ghani’s patience with Pakistani officials began to run out this spring, as the violence continued with little sign of a breakthrough on talks, officials said. The Pakistani military, which has sheltered the Taliban’s leadership for years, redoubled its pressure on the insurgents to come to the table. As a result, some Taliban commanders began fleeing Pakistan, said Borhan Osman, a researcher at the Afghan Analysts Network who has written extensively about the insurgency.


That reaction, coupled with the Qatar office’s public disagreement with the Murree meeting, made him “think twice,” Mr. Osman said, about the claim that Mr. Mansour had given permission to the Taliban negotiators.
“Especially if the Qatar office has been accountable to Akhtar Muhammad Mansour himself, you can’t imagine a contradiction between the two,” Mr. Osman said.
“The most plausible scenario is that Pakistan brought the best they could offer — these are the guys that Taliban cannot deny,” he continued. “But whether they have the blessing of the leadership, that is the question.”
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Default 07-23-2015, 01:46 AM

There you have it folks. As long as there is violence, the "Talks" are just show.
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Default 07-23-2015, 01:53 AM

Lol so now the pakis pressured their illterate puppets the taliban to hold peace talks due to external pressure from china. It all makes sense now, Pakistan has to obey its masters or else they won't invest in their country.

I also think all this talk of isis being inside afghanistan could have forced the talibs to negotiate for peace fnally.


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Default 07-23-2015, 11:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Kushan Prince View Post
Lol so now the pakis pressured their illterate puppets the taliban to hold peace talks due to external pressure from china. It all makes sense now, Pakistan has to obey its masters or else they won't invest in their country.

I also think all this talk of isis being inside afghanistan could have forced the talibs to negotiate for peace fnally.
I can't say for certain that the Chinese have been pressurizing the Pakistanis to try to end the fighting in Afghanistan but the evidence - short of an open declaration - is so overwhelmingly in favour of indicating that.

The Chinese are not naive and use the Pakistanis for their own benefit e.g. keep India bogged down in a Pak v India arms race by selling arms to Pakistan for cheap and also to use Pakistan for vital strategic overland access to the Arabian gulf.

They know full well the two-faced and duplicitous Pakistanis use the Taliban to weaken Afghanistan and they want an end to this nonsense.

Also with India and Pakistan both joining the SCO, China and Russia want an end to the constant Indo-Pak bickering.

It will be interesting to see if the clever and shrewd Chinese are able to play a part in reining in the Pakistan army, which is a corrupt money-hungry organization which feeds off a brainwashed public instilled with an "eternal" India v Pakistan conflict.

If Indo-Pak relations were to be normalized then the brutal Pakistan army would be in trouble as their role would be called in to and their power decrease, but with constant Indo-Pak bickering and border skirmishes their power is maintained as Pakistanis are caught up in a jingoistic fervour and also with hatred towards India, thus looking to the "mighty" Pakistan army to "defend" them.


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Default 07-24-2015, 12:48 PM

Afghan peace talks second round likely in China next week

By KHAAMA PRESS - Fri Jul 24 2015, 3:47 pm

Afghan peace talks second round in China

The Afghan government officials are expecting to meet with the Taliban group representatives during the second round of peace talks in China next week.

The Afghan High Peace Council (AHPC) officials said Friday that the second round of talks is mostly probably going to be held in Urumqi city of China on 30th of July.

A senior member of the Afghan High Peace Council (AHPC) Ismail Qasimyar said the second round of peace talks would be observed by delegations from the United States and China.

It is expected that the Afghan delegation and Taliban group representatives would discuss issues including foreign troops operating in Afghanistan, U.N sanctions against the group’s leaders and prisoners of war as raised by the Taliban side during the first round of the talks.

The first round of peace talks between the Afghan officials and Taliban group representatives was organized in Islamabad, the capital city of Pakistan earlier this month.

Taliban’s former Deputy Foreign Minister Mullah Jalil and senior leader Qari Din Muhammad attended the talks on behalf of the Taliban group.
The Afghan officials and representatives of the Taliban group agreed to hold the next round of talks on reconciliation process after the holy month of Ramadan.

The breakthrough in Afghan peace talks has raised hopes for progress toward a political settlement to end years of bloodshed although its success is uncertain.

According to the reports, the leadership of the Taliban group is divided on whether to talk or continue fighting, and it is unclear whether those who are negotiating would be able to enforce any cease-fire.

http://www.khaama.com/afghan-peace-t...next-week-1317




*Even if there is a split between the Taliban between a pro-peace faction (willing to end killing) and a pro-war faction (wanting to carry killing) it means the Taliban are weaker as the number of militants fighting are reduced.

The Taliban are also unable to make any inroads in to major urban centres and are just being quarantined in to relatively minor sparsely uninhabited regions.

They are losing their war against the Afghan people day by day, as each day an Afghan child, especially a girl, receives education and thus vaccination from following the backwards Pakistani-sponsored Taliban ideology.

China, Russia all want a stable Afghanistan and will lean on Pakistan to ensure that happens.


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Default 07-24-2015, 04:32 PM

China’s interest in Afghanistan

China’s interest in Afghanistan



Afghanistan’s President Ashraf Ghani Ahmadzai (R) and China’s President Xi Jinping inspect honor guards during a wel coming ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Oct. 28, 2014.


July 24, 2015, Friday/ 17:40:58/

Afghanistan's security was discussed in a summit in the Russian city of Ufa last week.

The leaders of the BRICS countries -- Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa -- were gathered for a summit that also overlapped with a Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit, in which Afghanistan is an observer country. The SCO, which was founded in 2001, is a Eurasian political, economic and military organization mainly focusing on anti-terrorism cooperation among the member states.

During the meeting, Chinese President Xi Jinping told his Afghan counterpart Ashraf Ghani: “Increasing security cooperation suits both our countries' interests. China will continue to supply Afghanistan with security supplies, technology, equipment and training assistance.” This statement came only days after the first peace talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government. Chinese officials also attended the peace talks, which were held in Pakistan, as an observer. These two developments clearly show China's interest in Afghanistan and its willingness to be part of the peace process in Afghanistan and the wider region. There are two main motivations behind China's recent activism: security and the economy.

The security situation in Afghanistan has been deteriorating since NATO's withdrawal of combat troops at the end of 2014. The Taliban became more active and offensive in all provinces of the country; the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has been recruiting militants and trying to create a safe haven for itself in Afghanistan and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan has been gathering strength in the northern part of Afghanistan. All in all, a stable Afghanistan is something that Beijing would opt for since they are already worried about separatist groups in the Xinjiang region in the far west of China, which neighbors three Central Asian countries and Afghanistan. While the United States is gradually moving away from Afghanistan, Chinese involvement and support in terms of peace-building in Afghanistan becomes more important and valuable. Beijing has already pledged security cooperation with Afghanistan and they will have to continue with that.
China also planning to cooperate with India and Pakistan

Moreover, China is also planning to cooperate with India and Pakistan over the Afghanistan issue through the SCO. India and Pakistan are set to be members of the SCO by next year -- they have observer status now -- and the SCO already had close relations with Afghanistan; therefore, it would be easier for China to play a constructive role in Afghanistan through the SCO with the contribution of India and Pakistan. As Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying stated in a media briefing, the “The SCO has a lot of experience and resources in anti-terrorism,” which could be quite useful when it develops cooperation with Afghanistan.

In order to fill the gaps left by the United States and NATO in Afghanistan, China does not have to send combat troops but they could be more effective in the rebuilding of the country through economic growth. According to Afghan economy expert Rahmat Shah, 1,500 mines have been discovered across Afghanistan and when extraction begins, it could create jobs for approximately half a million people each year. It is known that due to security issues, Afghanistan's national unity government has failed to sufficiently exploit Afghanistan's mineral resources. Even though the previous Afghan government signed agreements with Chinese and Canadian gas companies a few years back, they had to delay for the same reason. Mohammad Reza Mohammadi, an official from Ghor province's department of commerce, industries and mines, has said that “the total value of the mining sector in Afghanistan [could be] over $900 billion.” It clearly shows that a valuable source of revenue for the government and the Afghan people, which could make a significant contribution to the weak Afghan economy, is not being exploited due to the lack of security. Bringing an end to the ongoing fighting in the provinces could stimulate development in Afghanistan.

China is on the rise in the wider Central Asia region with its huge economic power, while the US is planning to end America's longest war soon at one point or another. A smooth transition and a peaceful solution to the Afghan situation could create a win-win situation for everybody. Since the Afghan economy is highly dependent on international aid and this is unlikely to change anytime soon, the Afghan government has to look for new economic fields. At this point, China's involvement in the mining sector would be beneficial. A secure and stable Afghanistan could also be a transport route between China and the Western world, which would even create more investment opportunities.

Both security concerns and potential economic benefits are drawing China into the Afghanistan issue. The extremist/separatist groups in the Xinjiang region of China could be more dangerous for the Chinese government if there is a strong Taliban and/or ISIL existence in an unstable Afghanistan. On the other side, a secure Afghanistan is an important economic opportunity for China and other regional countries. China's involvement in the Afghan peace talks seems to be a quick engagement; however, it was necessary and we will definitely see more of it in the near future.

http://www.todayszaman.com/op-ed_chi...an_394526.html


1. The Chinese are supporting the Afghan national government with help with security and other things.

However they want the Taliban to be neutralized by them being integrated in to government and peace to be brought to Afghanistan.



2. The article speaks of Chinese "co-operation" with India and Pakistan, this is diplomatic code for China piling pressure on the Pakistani military regime of Raheel Sharif.



Raheel Sharif, thug and current supremo of the Pakistan army that rules Pakistan.


Sharif and a fellow thug who runs the notorious ISI have been jetting to Kabul frequently in the past few months, an indication of some major development in the region (quite possibly heavy Chinese pressure on the thugs of the Pakistan army that rule Pakistan).

China is now in Afghanistan, in the form of working hard to create peace in this neighbouring state.

China will also be monitoring the Pakistan army to make sure it behaves itself in Afghanistan and stops supporting terrorists.



Pakistan army thug saluting well-drilled Chinese PLA soldiers.



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