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Default 07-29-2012, 02:24 PM

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Originally Posted by Toramana View Post
Pakistani physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy speaks out for scientific rationality
The Higgs boson news exposes the "tragedy," he says, of religion-based scorn for a scientific achievement.
July 11, 2012
Published: July 11, 2012
By Steven T. Corneliussen
American physicists regularly address public science awareness, but for the MIT-educated Pakistani physicist and public intellectual Pervez Hoodbhoy—a longtime colleague of physicists worldwide—the recent Higgs boson news re-illuminated antiscience attitudes having a ferocity not regularly encountered in America.
Hoodbhoy writes frequently in major public forums in Pakistan, the US, and elsewhere. In Pakistan's Express Tribune on 27 May, he published "How to spot the crackpot—pseudoscience in Pakistan." He argued, "Quack science does not just cost money. It also confuses people, engages them in bizarre conspiracy theories, and decreases society's collective ability to act sensibly." Among the objects of his criticism were "a self-taught engineer [who] claims he can 'fix Pakistan's energy problem in 3 years' by splitting water to produce free electricity," a "Fellow of the Royal Society from Pakistan [who] published an article saying that the HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Programme) experiment in Alaska caused floods and earthquakes in Pakistan," and "hucksters who run companies which freely advertise 'magnetised water' for boosting crop yields and making mangoes taste better."
Some of that might call to mind some of what troubles American physicists about public science literacy. But Hoodbhoy was quoted extensively this week in an Associated Press article that the Guardian in the UK headlined "Higgs boson physicist shunned in Pakistan: Man whose work made discovery of elusive particle possible scorned in homeland because of his religious affiliation."
The scorned scientist is the late Nobel laureate Abdus Salam. The piece circulated worldwide, from Australia's media conglomerate News Limited to the Washington Post online. Here's how it began in the Guardian:
In what is perhaps a sign of the growing Islamic extremism in the country, Pakistan's only Nobel laureate, who helped develop the theoretical framework that led to the apparent discovery of the subatomic "God particle" last week, is being largely scorned in his homeland because of his religious affiliation.
Abdus Salam, who died in 1996, was once hailed as a national hero for his pioneering work in physics and his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme. Now his name is stricken from school textbooks because he was a member of the Ahmadi sect that has been persecuted by the government and targeted by Taliban militants, who view them as heretics.
The wire-service article quotes Hoodbhoy on the nature of Salam's scientific collaboration with Steven Weinberg (a Nobel laureate whose views on a scientific quackery incident Hoodbhoy had requested and reported in that Express Tribune piece). The article also includes this:
Officials at Quaid-i-Azam University had to cancel plans for Salam to lecture about his Nobel-winning theory when Islamist student activists threatened to break the physicist's legs, said his colleague Hoodbhoy.
"The way he has been treated is such a tragedy," said Hoodbhoy. "He went from someone who was revered in Pakistan, a national celebrity, to someone who could not set foot there. If he came, he would be insulted and could be hurt or even killed."
The president who honoured Salam would later go on to intensify persecution of Ahmadis.
Salam was targeted even after his death. His body was returned to Pakistan in 1996 after he died in Oxford, England, and was buried under a gravestone that read "First Muslim Nobel laureate," but a local magistrate ordered the word "Muslim" to be erased, said Hoodbhoy.
Hoodbhoy is not alone in Pakistan in speaking out about his country's memory of Salam. An Express Tribune commentary headlined "Higgs boson: Pakistan's contribution to a major breakthrough" began, "Few Pakistanis know what the Higgs boson is and even fewer realise that some of the earliest theoretical groundwork that led to this discovery was laid by Pakistan's only Nobel laureate, Dr Abdus Salam." The closing paragraph merits quoting:
A Pakistani was at the fore of this frontier of discovery in the 1960s and 1970s. But rather than encourage and celebrate his magnificent achievement, he was maligned and sidelined for his faith. An ironic fact: most physicists are staunch atheists but Salam was one of the few firm believers in God.
---
Really sad, but what do you expect from Pakis...
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Default 07-29-2012, 09:48 PM

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Default 07-29-2012, 10:37 PM

Toramana has been giving us lectures on hatred for Punjabis this and Punjabis that but now he has start boasting about the intellect of a punjabi and giving references of punjabi videos and articles. Did't you find any other better guy than this one ?
Toramana you like ANP are being punjabized by their lectures and articles. Good change ???
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Default 07-29-2012, 11:08 PM

Muslims have many intellectuals, the problem is that the vast majority move to the West. India, Russia, China and South America are facing the same problem but are doing a lot better to keep them lately. Still though 30% of silicon valley entrepeneurs are Indians.

The other problem is that Muslim resources is not centralized, you have Saudi and the Gulf states who invest nothing but creates chaos in its own society.
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Default 07-31-2012, 02:09 AM

acting as if secularism is the saving grace of intellectual progress in the islamic world is not honest. the islamic "golden era" thrived a 1000 years ago under islamic law, the kind of society that would make liberals of today hate muslims even more. if it were a simple matter of islamic fundamentalists keeping the muslim world backwards, than we would see all the "istans" besides afghanistan and pakistan excelling in these fields. the truth is that they don't, even with their near 100% literacy rates.

take iran for example, its post islamic revolution contribution to science and technology far surpasses its pre revolution past under the secular shah.


There is nothing in our book, the Qur'an, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That's a good religion.

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Default 07-31-2012, 07:33 AM

I think the countries of central Asia You mentioned have all a comon other disease.


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Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
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Default 07-31-2012, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by randolph85 View Post
acting as if secularism is the saving grace of intellectual progress in the islamic world is not honest. the islamic "golden era" thrived a 1000 years ago under islamic law, the kind of society that would make liberals of today hate muslims even more. if it were a simple matter of islamic fundamentalists keeping the muslim world backwards, than we would see all the "istans" besides afghanistan and pakistan excelling in these fields. the truth is that they don't, even with their near 100% literacy rates.

take iran for example, its post islamic revolution contribution to science and technology far surpasses its pre revolution past under the secular shah.
I think its more about the investment that the current goverment does.
If you speand more money on science you will get more inovation, its not about how Islamic one country is.
But one thing I don't understand, most of you don't find Iran Islamic and peopel always say that the sharia there is not the good one. But still when something positive comes out there you point to Iran and say look how good Islamic goverment is -_-.
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Default 07-31-2012, 11:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Khostai View Post
I think its more about the investment that the current goverment does.
If you speand more money on science you will get more inovation, its not about how Islamic one country is.
But one thing I don't understand, most of you don't find Iran Islamic and peopel always say that the sharia there is not the good one. But still when something positive comes out there you point to Iran and say look how good Islamic goverment is -_-.
A few things stand in Iran's favour if you like. Historically Persians made significant contributions to Arabic as well as Farsi literature which they exported. In that regard they have been aware and responsive towards learning and literature. In addition they have been willing to interpret and reinterpret religion to fit their culture. Islam is a common rallying point but their form of Islam is also used to separate them from the rest of the Muslim world. They know this and they continue to use this in all fields of society.

Iran is not the only country that chooses to make a political point out of any achievements or advancement. They are also not hungry as Pakistan or Afghanistan and can choose to focus on science and technology and justify this within their interpretation of Islam.



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Default 07-31-2012, 01:35 PM

I think Muslim Scientists in the west are on the rise. Take a look at most higher educational websites in the US, and you'd be shocked to not find a bunch of Muslim scientists engaged in ground-breaking research scenarios. The reason why Muslim dominated countries can't produce is because of foreign-meddling and instability, such problems should not be attributed to religion.


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A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

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Default 07-31-2012, 06:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Khostai View Post
But one thing I don't understand, most of you don't find Iran Islamic and peopel always say that the sharia there is not the good one. But still when something positive comes out there you point to Iran and say look how good Islamic goverment is -_-.

iran is not a vangaurd of shariah and its mistakes are many but there is no denying that the leadership is conservative. the same people who order women to be veiled are the same ones ordering research into such fields such as nano tech.


There is nothing in our book, the Qur'an, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That's a good religion.

- Malcolm X
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