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Default 07-15-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catya Sher View Post
Right about Babur's famed love for Kabul, which he wrote about
at length in his Memoirs as LIKE a paradise.

But the actual quotation is from one of Shah Jahan's buildings
in Delhi. I have to remember WHICH one, but I think the Fort, probably.

The language is Persian, I am sure, as that was the court language
of the Moghuls.

As a matter of fact, my own family had a plaque with this inscription
by our front door when I was growing up....brought from the former
Moghul domain of Hindustan. I wish it would go back to Muslim Rule,
and SOON !

The most successful governors of Hindustan WERE the Muslims, by the way.

Look how it deteriorated drastically under the British, Nehru, Indira Gandhi,
all subsequent figures.

Moghul rulers never physically persecuted Hindus or Christians living in their territories.
But the persecution BY fanatical Hindus of modern Catholics is
a much-suppressed news story so that Catholics around the world
will be against Muslims, rather than against Hindus.

Think about the difference between a benign Moghul rule of
the subcontinent and the modern day disaster created by
secular Hindus. And others.
What a joke.
India is a secular and democratic republic, so the majority will always rule india.


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Default 07-15-2012, 07:38 PM

Some broad generalizations here. It all looks very rosy when you study Babar's memoirs selectively. But there are things recorded in his memoirs that don't give a comfortable feeling e.g., at one place he mentions his soldiers informed him crops were ready to be harvested in Momand, Kurram, and other areas adjacent to Kabul inhabited by Pashtun/Afghan tribes---and that the tribes had lot of cattle---

As he tells us in his memoirs, Babar organized raids into these areas and plundered the folks killing indiscriminately. Probably, the worst massacre at the hands of Babar happened in Bajuar where he killed the whole lot and then celebrated the victory with feast of hashish and opium ---he frequently mentions his opium addiction in his memoirs.
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Default 07-15-2012, 07:45 PM

Last year, I wanted to go to Kabul. In the plan was also included a visit to Babar's mazar. One of my acquaintances advised not to go because there are many restrictions to be faced if you are from Pakistan. He narrated how he was not allowed to enter Babar's mazar by the security.
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Default 07-15-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toramana View Post
Some broad generalizations here. It all looks very rosy when you study Babar's memoirs selectively. But there are things recorded in his memoirs that don't give a comfortable feeling e.g., at one place he mentions his soldiers informed him crops were ready to be harvested in Momand, Kurram, and other areas adjacent to Kabul inhabited by Pashtun/Afghan tribes---and that the tribes had lot of cattle---

As he tells us in his memoirs, Babar organized raids into these areas and plundered the folks killing indiscriminately. Probably, the worst massacre at the hands of Babar happened in Bajuar where he killed the whole lot and then celebrated the victory with feast of hashish and opium ---he frequently mentions his opium addiction in his memoirs.


He also mentions about how he basically forced the Yusufzai tribe to give them one of their women and instead of respecting her, he ripped off her veil and ravaged her there, without nikkah.

Babur was a ****bag.
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Default 07-15-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toramana View Post
Some broad generalizations here. It all looks very rosy when you study Babar's memoirs selectively. But there are things recorded in his memoirs that don't give a comfortable feeling e.g., at one place he mentions his soldiers informed him crops were ready to be harvested in Momand, Kurram, and other areas adjacent to Kabul inhabited by Pashtun/Afghan tribes---and that the tribes had lot of cattle---

As he tells us in his memoirs, Babar organized raids into these areas and plundered the folks killing indiscriminately. Probably, the worst massacre at the hands of Babar happened in Bajuar where he killed the whole lot and then celebrated the victory with feast of hashish and opium ---he frequently mentions his opium addiction in his memoirs.
Exactly, he also killed so many people in India, only people like catya sher can worship him.


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Default 07-15-2012, 08:04 PM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
He also mentions about how he basically forced the Yusufzai tribe to give them one of their women and instead of respecting her, he ripped off her veil and ravaged her there, without nikkah.

Babur was a ****bag.
I don't know, may be. The rulers at that time usually did this thing.

But as for I have studied history, he first tried to subdue Yousafzais probably the most turbulent Pashtun tribe at that time. But failing he asked Bibi Mubaraks daughter of Malak Shah Mansur hand in marriage. It was kind of a political marriage to win over powerful Yousafzais to his side. Malak Shah Mansur accepted. So I think it was a proper marriage with nikah and not kind of rape.

Last edited by Toramana; 07-15-2012 at 08:09 PM.
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Default 07-15-2012, 08:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Bharati View Post
Exactly, he also killed so many people in India, only people like catya sher can worship him.
Yes---I agree. Foreigners have no rights to subjugate native people.
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Default 07-15-2012, 08:25 PM

Here is something about Bibi Mubaraka marriage to Babur.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=B8NJ...sufzay&f=false
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Default 07-15-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catya Sher View Post
The most successful governors of Hindustan WERE the Muslims, by the way.

Look how it deteriorated drastically under the British, Nehru, Indira Gandhi,
all subsequent figures.

Moghul rulers never physically persecuted Hindus or Christians living in their territories.
But the persecution BY fanatical Hindus of modern Catholics is
a much-suppressed news story so that Catholics around the world
will be against Muslims, rather than against Hindus.

Think about the difference between a benign Moghul rule of
the subcontinent and the modern day disaster created by
secular Hindus. And others.
from what i have been reading, india was quite fine before being invaded by muslims and then the british. the slaughters, rapes, thieving and oppression by the muslims and the british were crimes against humanity and solely for the looting of indias wealth, land and the use of indians as slaves.
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Default 07-15-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toramana View Post
I don't know, may be. The rulers at that time usually did this thing.

But as for I have studied history, he first tried to subdue Yousafzais probably the most turbulent Pashtun tribe at that time. But failing he asked Bibi Mubaraks daughter of Malak Shah Mansur hand in marriage. It was kind of a political marriage to win over powerful Yousafzais to his side. Malak Shah Mansur accepted. So I think it was a proper marriage with nikah and not kind of rape.


It's in Baburnama . he mentions something about that. In it he says she went to beg him for mercy against the Yusufzais and then he ripped off her veil.
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