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Default 06-24-2012, 03:02 PM

To everyone saying this is also a Kuchi custom, I can tell you that it is not currently practised by us though it may have been in the past.
Also, as RevolutionThroughReason has stated, the Ghalji are atleast in part descended from Turks.
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Default 06-24-2012, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post
traditional kochies still do that. but bride kidnapping only happens when some retard wants the girl but the family refuses to give away their daughter. and it's not only amongst the kochies but all pashtuns living rural areas.
What are you talking about. no one practices this rural, or urban. Kidnapping a girl in pashtunwali will bring most certainly death to the kidnapper or his male kin. Pashtuns have kidnapped woman for brides during wars of their enemies. But it is no custom by any means.

As far as origins are concerned, this/was practiced from southeast asia, the caucusus. There are tribes in Africa that practice it and the Roman Empire was notorious for it.
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Default 06-24-2012, 04:23 PM

in jalalabad our neighbor's daughter who was 16 ended up marrying an 8 year old cousin because her father had vowed not to give her away to some guy from the other village who had threatened to kidnap her whether her father liked it or not. hers was not the only case. that is what i am talking about.
amongst the uneducated, it's shameful to the victim not the criminals.



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non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.
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Default 06-24-2012, 04:23 PM

That's only if the kidnapper is less powerful; Kuchi clans are often more powerful than Keliwals because they're more mobile.

war and fights over women is very common in Pashtunwali; It brought "izzah" to the clans who could do this because it means the tribe of the other males was weaker. In fact that's why Pashtunwali has this law of avenging, to redeem the humiliation done to the men of those clans.


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Default 06-24-2012, 04:30 PM

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Originally Posted by khushal View Post
What are you talking about. no one practices this rural, or urban. Kidnapping a girl in pashtunwali will bring most certainly death to the kidnapper or his male kin. Pashtuns have kidnapped woman for brides during wars of their enemies. But it is no custom by any means.

As far as origins are concerned, this/was practiced from southeast asia, the caucusus. There are tribes in Africa that practice it and the Roman Empire was notorious for it.
Hey Khushal Salaam,

You may be right about it not happening every day and its not a custom as it is in this area under discussion (the central asian state)

I dont know how widespread it is but one family in our village kidnapped a girl (not necessary kidnapped as the story goes that the two liked eachother) who was promised into another family. Internicine killing, stabbing in mosque type of war between the families erupted... the war towers were built in the homes, night watches had to be kept. The boy married the girl and his family was strong so they backed him up and kept the girl. Eventually a jirga worked out a solla with some sort of equitable trade.

I still recall seeing a limping older man and my cousins told me that he had been stabbed in the leg because he was from the girls family and had confronted one of the men's family members in the fields. The guy used one of those barbed army knives on the guy and really did some damage to his leg.

They just recently knocked down the war towers after the solla.


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Default 06-24-2012, 04:56 PM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
That's only if the kidnapper is less powerful; Kuchi clans are often more powerful than Keliwals because they're more mobile.

war and fights over women is very common in Pashtunwali; It brought "izzah" to the clans who could do this because it means the tribe of the other males was weaker. In fact that's why Pashtunwali has this law of avenging, to redeem the humiliation done to the men of those clans.
Avenging exists as an enforcer of law since there is no authority in place.

@DZJ,
you were saying as if this exists as a custom like in the video of these Kyrgyz. The Kyrgyz dont avenge the kidnapping therefore they accept it as tradition. Pashtuns abhor this practice that is why they will get violent and kill over it.

@ Barackzai, walakum salam
A similar thing happened in my village where the girl and boy planned to run away. In that incident three people were killed including the boy that ran away with the girl. My point is that pashtuns will kill so therefore they abhor it. Pashtuns consider this a crime. The video portrays these Kyrgyz people as if it is their right to kidnap brides and no one actually does anything about it including the kidnapped girls family.
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Default 06-24-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by khushal View Post
Avenging exists as an enforcer of law since there is no authority in place.

@DZJ,
you were saying as if this exists as a custom like in the video of these Kyrgyz. The Kyrgyz dont avenge the kidnapping therefore they accept it as tradition. Pashtuns abhor this practice that is why they will get violent and kill over it.

@ Barackzai, walakum salam
A similar thing happened in my village where the girl and boy planned to run away. In that incident three people were killed including the boy that ran away with the girl. My point is that pashtuns will kill so therefore they abhor it. Pashtuns consider this a crime. The video portrays these Kyrgyz people as if it is their right to kidnap brides and no one actually does anything about it including the kidnapped girls family.
Yeah I agree;the responses are often brutal unless one side is dramatically more powerful and the other family knows it cannot win to begin with.


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Default 06-24-2012, 05:06 PM

the first sentence was for skimface's kamsai which is the way women do their hair comment.



I am no bird, and no nest ensnares me.

non commercial would cost less if he was in charge himself which he plans on doing. right now it's n herat but soon it will be in qanadahar.
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Default 06-24-2012, 09:31 PM

this custom is very popular in caucus region among muslims and non muslims. the girl reaching puberty is always acomponied by a male relative in fair that she might be kidnapped. sexual acts are not practiced before the marriage by her kidnaper. in some cases its the matter of honour for the girl that the kidnapper risked his life for her and made her his wife. No enmity remains on either side.
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Default 06-24-2012, 10:53 PM

Pashtuns kidnap girls only in cases of "AVAZ" where a cousin claims for the girl...or in disputes,revenge,or in obsession...but not as a custom.Pashtun male accompany a girl for safety not for kidnapping.Since...pashtuns have been in intertribal wars long ago.They fear for the honour not for kidnapping.The kidnapping incidents did happen but they always had reasons.Not as a custom.

Infact...i ve seen pashtuns to be the one who ask for girl's proposal with such politeness and passion that i ve never seen in any other society.Infact its only in pashtuns where jahaiz (dowry) is not taken from girl's side but provided from men's side.Men's side is told to wait for a response from girl's side.Kidnapping is only seen in few cases...its not general.Kidnapping can also be seen in other ethnicity like punjabis,balochs,western wolrd etc etc.
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