Pashtun Community | Pashtuns | Pashto |
World's Largest Online Pashtun Community

Go Back   Pashtun Community | Pashtuns | Pashto | > Society & Heritage > Pashtun Culture - د پښتنو دود
Reload this Page Afghan women are the biggest victims in Afghanistan
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
(#41)
Old
RevolutionThroughReason RevolutionThroughReason is offline
BANNED
RevolutionThroughReason is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 8,513
Thanks: 2,091
Thanked 1,155 Times in 984 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default 04-18-2012, 01:10 PM

Alchemist makes some very insightful and painfully accurate points; namely the exploitation of women's suffering as a tool of hegemonic intrusion and subjugation of other culture's under false disguise of the doctrine of humanism.

Does this mode of approach sound familiar? of course, it's the same manipulation and emotional black mail strategy that extremists use to justify murdering their own Muslim population under the fraudulent pretense of claiming to represent Islam.

WIth that said .....just as the conquest to subjugate and "domesticate" Muslims culturally and psychologically into passive and serville pets; so too is the reality that in the Muslim world, the abuse and denigration of women is a very real problem.

What needs to be done is to separate the misuse of Women's welfare issues for corrupt political and imperial conquest and the correct and legitimate concern to alleviate the plight of women, there is an alternative; it does exist.
Reply With Quote
(#42)
Old
Alchemist's Avatar
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
PF senior
Alchemist is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 2,303
Thanks: 235
Thanked 1,074 Times in 685 Posts
My Mood: Lurking
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 04-19-2012, 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by faye View Post
alchemist, you sure have a bitterness against women. has a women emasculated you somehow, sometime?
have you been overmothered and it has left you feeling crippled, as a man?
faye...

Don't you dare talk about my mother.
My mother is brighter than a thousand suns put together and you can't even hold a candle up to her. My mother is a lioness. And you are a mother like a cow is a mother to a calf.
If all the women in Afghanistan were like my mother, today we would be the conqueror and you the conquered. If they were like my mother they would eat their own flesh then take pity from the likes of you. If the women of the world were like my mother there would be campaigns around the world to end the plight of men instead of women.
If I can't feel sorry for women like you...its because my mother has never shown any moments of weakness or hopelessness or fear in the face of adversity. My mother is exceptional like that. So don't you dare talk about my mother again.
Reply With Quote
(#43)
Old
faye faye is offline
PF senior
faye is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 7,585
Thanked 1,782 Times in 1,462 Posts
My Mood: Breezy
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: australia
Default 04-19-2012, 01:26 AM

i see.... mother worship. you feel inadequate in comparison, hence resentment towards women.
that explains it ;-)

Last edited by faye; 04-19-2012 at 01:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
(#44)
Old
Levanaye Zalmaye's Avatar
Levanaye Zalmaye Levanaye Zalmaye is offline
PF contributor
Levanaye Zalmaye is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 1,813
Thanked 1,400 Times in 723 Posts
My Mood: In Love
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default 04-19-2012, 04:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
charity doesn't solve our problem.
Especially obliged charity.
The type that has to be declared and made a show off. This does nothing but feed the ego of the rich and validate the existence of the poor.

In any case what is irritating about this video is that it is the same rhetoric that George Bush Jr. had broadcasted on CNN and FOX. "Afghan Girls don't go to school". "Women can't work". "Domestic Abuse". Blah Blah. This does not shed light on the real issue. Once again, soldout you are driving idiotic arguments, and the sad truth of the matter is that most people have been indoctrinated by this 10 year old mantra so much so that they take it as an axiomatic truth - women are victim. So to correct this, the Afghan Parliament has to have a share of female members in it...and what of it? This is again a cliche of the west - "Muslims have concubines, oppress their women, keep harems for their perverted and twisted fantasies"...and so it goes back to the same idiotic argument - "Arabic Islamic values are the cause of all indignation". Is that true?

We don't really have a true measure of "Who suffers most". If suffering can be measured at all. Quite easily, women and children become the "helpless" lot during war times, on account of their fragile nature. Most of those women that are begging on the streets with 10 children around them are widows. So the question is, is it better to be dead or alive?
More men die than women, now more than before. This is a truth. The life expectancy of women are longer than men. Approximately 500 children in Afghanistan die every day out of hunger. And if we consider the fact that about 30 or 50 Afghan men die every other day almost from NATO bombing, regardless of their affiliation. And add to that the number of Afghan men in prisons and mental institutions. And add to that the number of men who have been turned into concubines for homosexual drug dealers. I would hypothesis that more men are victims than women.

At least with women there is a concern for their welfare. But what about the men? Because in the modern world, all men have something in them that makes them evil they are essentially hopeless. And if there is corruption, murder, injustice, then it is because of the men. Therefore, women are by nature victim of men.

Why should I care if women suffer?
I really don't think there is any hope for women.
Not even developed countries.

Just recently the American media has gotten into a frenzy because of a comment made by a presidential candidate...And it is said that "In America there is a war on women".

Women are by nature victims.

It is like saying "Oh, why does a triangle have three sides?...Oh the inhumanity of it all! Someone do something about it!"

When was women's education so important even in the west? When today an American presidential hopeful says that according to his wife, a woman's main concern is economics! To which millions of mothers take offence.

You people are like sheep.

You are psychologically programmed to say what you do and feel what you do. You don't have a mind of your own. And therefore you will always be the self hating victim.

We Pashtuns would like to see all our people educated to the highest degree possible. And by "people", we mean both men and women. An educated woman is independent, she is aware of her rights and she can escape domestic abuse with relatively lesser difficulty. In fact, if you educated a mother, you educated her whole family.

When you have a family, you can keep your daughters at home. Put them in a tent (burkha) and lock them up. We Pashtuns, on the other hand, would like to see our women prosper. In neighboring India, Pakistan and Iran, women are reaching new heights while our women are still traded between clans as cattle. We want that to change and we don't care what anyone in the West thinks about it but we want it to change for our own sakes.

We don't care what anyone thinks. Isn't the acquisition of knowledge made mandatory for both male and female?

In fact, the ANP has recently passed legislation that will punish parents for not sending their children to primary school. Similar legislation should be passed in Kabul and Quetta.

The difference today between the superiority of the West and our inferiority is education and you have the nerve to tell us that we should leave 50% of our people uneducated.


"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Levanaye Zalmaye For This Useful Post:
DaMalakandGhar (04-19-2012), faye (04-19-2012), haviZsultan (04-19-2012), Khostai (04-19-2012), RevolutionThroughReason (04-20-2012)
(#45)
Old
Alchemist's Avatar
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
PF senior
Alchemist is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 2,303
Thanks: 235
Thanked 1,074 Times in 685 Posts
My Mood: Lurking
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 04-19-2012, 07:43 PM

The modern education system is over rated.

If you sincerely believe that the difference between the muslim world and the western world is due to a difference in "education" then you don't really know much about how the world really works. You probably don't even live in the real world but in some fantasy world. America isn't the world super power because it has the best education system in the world...which as a matter of fact they don't!
I have already written several posts in regards to the drawbacks of the modern education system. How it is based on a managerial system concocted during the Industrial Revolution to produce the middle class. Look at America as a prime example, the average american doesn't even know where on a map is Canada yet they are the world's most "powerful" nation. Then fast forward to Japan and look at the state of women there. A larger percentage of Japanese women are single and well over the age of 30 with no desire to be in any form of relationship. Modern day spinsters. So do you have the states to compare where the women fair better? You think once a woman leaves an abusive relationship all her woes would end? Even western women that are divorced face hardships, despite their education.

Domestic violence is a cultural problem. Even educated and rich men abuse and torture their wives. In happens everywhere.

You don't need an education to be a good person.

There are qualities that a person must have, that are not nourished by schooling systems. Common sense, morality, ethics, reason, imagination, intuition, just to name a few. A woman has attributes about her that are different than a man. Yet the school doesn't cater for the specific differences that are present between the brains of men and women . Men and women have different roles and functions in society. Let's suppose that pashtun women are educated. So what? They will have a job, and they will be economically independent. They will then become producers and consumers of goods and services. They will be able to leave abusive spouses or parents and fend for themselves. Is that so? Hardly. Even if they have the degrees and the diplomas, if there are no companies to hire them, if there is no infrastructure and security or a strong government they still won't have their "rights".

You are a fool to put the cart before the horse. Fix the men. And the women will turn out just fine.
Reply With Quote
(#46)
Old
Alchemist's Avatar
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
PF senior
Alchemist is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 2,303
Thanks: 235
Thanked 1,074 Times in 685 Posts
My Mood: Lurking
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 04-19-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by faye View Post
i see.... mother worship. you feel inadequate in comparison, hence resentment towards women.
that explains it ;-)
so if someone is worshipping their god, then it means they feel resentment towards their god?

You know what...

i am sorry..

i forgot that you were a handicap.

carry on fool.
Reply With Quote
(#47)
Old
faye faye is offline
PF senior
faye is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 7,585
Thanked 1,782 Times in 1,462 Posts
My Mood: Breezy
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: australia
Default 04-19-2012, 07:59 PM

mother =god ?
Reply With Quote
(#48)
Old
Khostai Khostai is online now
PF senior
Khostai is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 2,698
Thanks: 279
Thanked 754 Times in 612 Posts
My Mood: Angelic
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default 04-20-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
The modern education system is over rated.

If you sincerely believe that the difference between the muslim world and the western world is due to a difference in "education" then you don't really know much about how the world really works. You probably don't even live in the real world but in some fantasy world. America isn't the world super power because it has the best education system in the world...which as a matter of fact they don't!
I have already written several posts in regards to the drawbacks of the modern education system. How it is based on a managerial system concocted during the Industrial Revolution to produce the middle class. Look at America as a prime example, the average american doesn't even know where on a map is Canada yet they are the world's most "powerful" nation. Then fast forward to Japan and look at the state of women there. A larger percentage of Japanese women are single and well over the age of 30 with no desire to be in any form of relationship. Modern day spinsters. So do you have the states to compare where the women fair better? You think once a woman leaves an abusive relationship all her woes would end? Even western women that are divorced face hardships, despite their education.

Domestic violence is a cultural problem. Even educated and rich men abuse and torture their wives. In happens everywhere.

You don't need an education to be a good person.

There are qualities that a person must have, that are not nourished by schooling systems. Common sense, morality, ethics, reason, imagination, intuition, just to name a few. A woman has attributes about her that are different than a man. Yet the school doesn't cater for the specific differences that are present between the brains of men and women . Men and women have different roles and functions in society. Let's suppose that pashtun women are educated. So what? They will have a job, and they will be economically independent. They will then become producers and consumers of goods and services. They will be able to leave abusive spouses or parents and fend for themselves. Is that so? Hardly. Even if they have the degrees and the diplomas, if there are no companies to hire them, if there is no infrastructure and security or a strong government they still won't have their "rights".

You are a fool to put the cart before the horse. Fix the men. And the women will turn out just fine.
But you can't have strong infrastructure or strong goverment if you don't have a educated mass of peopel, where are you going to get the ingeneers and doctors and workers to build you a nation???
And if a women is educated she can teach her sons not to treat his wife like a slave but as a human being and let her daughters get an education so that her daughter can get a better future and also stand up against the husband if he is traing to give her away to some old man. That kind of effect have education, everybody knows that by just simply educating someone will not make everything magicaly better but it is a turn in the right direction.
Yes even the educated can abuse there wife but and educated women can make it stop before the husband can kill he, and yes even in the west sometimes it ends in murder but the majority can escape an abusive relationship becuase the women is independent and can teke care of her self if she is alone, but in places like Afghanistan she will suffer the rest of her live.
And lets leave Europe and US aside look at Japan, South Korea, TAiwan and Sigapore, why are this nation so ahead of the muslim world????

Last edited by Khostai; 04-20-2012 at 03:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
(#49)
Old
Alchemist's Avatar
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
PF senior
Alchemist is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 2,303
Thanks: 235
Thanked 1,074 Times in 685 Posts
My Mood: Lurking
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 04-21-2012, 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khostai View Post
But you can't have strong infrastructure or strong goverment if you don't have a educated mass of peopel, where are you going to get the ingeneers and doctors and workers to build you a nation???
And if a women is educated she can teach her sons not to treat his wife like a slave but as a human being and let her daughters get an education so that her daughter can get a better future and also stand up against the husband if he is traing to give her away to some old man. That kind of effect have education, everybody knows that by just simply educating someone will not make everything magicaly better but it is a turn in the right direction.
Yes even the educated can abuse there wife but and educated women can make it stop before the husband can kill he, and yes even in the west sometimes it ends in murder but the majority can escape an abusive relationship becuase the women is independent and can teke care of her self if she is alone, but in places like Afghanistan she will suffer the rest of her live.
And lets leave Europe and US aside look at Japan, South Korea, TAiwan and Sigapore, why are this nation so ahead of the muslim world????

Look back in history and you will find that those nations that turned into empires did so through might. But let's focus on the economical aspect of the rise some of these nations.

The American industry was build on the backs of slaves. All the countries you mentioned became "advanced" by using cheap labour.

So let us consider Japan for instance. During the Meji Restoration the Japanese had learned from the westerners that in order for them to become prosperous they would need to build factories, not schools. The Japanese build textile milling factories and used mainly women as a source of cheap labour. So if you want to follow Japan's footsteps, do what they did. They called in the women from the rural areas to migrate to the cities, live in dormitories and work 12 hour shifts with 1 hour break, continuing for 24hrs a day. They exploited their women. Without a doubt the Textile industry was the major reason for the rise of Japan. It was the second largest producer of cotton, Britain largest supplier and also a leader in silk production.

The case for Korea is even worse off then the rest. They make 1/10th of what an american or japanese labourer earns in the manufacturing industry. And similarly women are still the cheapest source of labour as they make half the earnings of a man. And you can't argue that manufacturing companies like Hyundai, Daewoo, Samsung etc are not the reason why Korea is where it is today. Did you know that the founder of Hyundai was a simple mechanic who was even that skilled at his trade to begin with? He wasn't an "ingeneer". In fact the so called Four Tigers of Asia (Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong and S.Korea) are all dependent on cheap labour, and got to where they did because of policies that focused on input growth - the Taiwanese "miracle" which has been mainly due to the "ten major construction projects" (building of ports, highways etc) for the mobilization of resources.

I mean let's face it ...Soviet growth was impressive at it's time too. Where are they now?

The paper tigers are rather driven by perspiration and not inspiration. They have extraordinary growth input (labour force, education level) but not in efficiency. Singapore that use to have half its labour force educated now has two thirds completed secondary education, but that doesn't mean that in future they will have two thirds with Ph.Ds. This is the same type of growth that the USSR had...by the mobilization of the resources. Forcing farmers from the fields into the cities. 80% of the long term gains in per capita income in the US can be attributed to technological progress. If were to go by projections of Japanese growth from 30 years ago, Japan should have already been the number economic power in the world. So why isn't it?


And lastly, consider the "Brain drain" effect.
Why is 36% of Scientists at NASA from India?
Why is one out of every 20 doctors in the US is from India?

How do you think rich "muslim" countries like saudia arabia, UAE, kuwait manage to get by when they have crappy education systems? You can say it is because of the oil...but oil production requires "ingeneers".
It's not like they have female petroleum "ingeneers" working the fields. So it's like it has to be a pashtana ingeneer mining lithium in Afghanistan.

Like I said, even in the most "advanced" countries women are "suffering", marginalized...in the US a female worker makes 77% of what a man does for the same work. Big deal.

Last edited by Alchemist; 04-21-2012 at 12:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
(#50)
Old
Breshna's Avatar
Breshna Breshna is offline
PF contributor
Breshna is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,812
Thanks: 385
Thanked 558 Times in 407 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default 04-21-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khostai View Post
But you can't have strong infrastructure or strong goverment if you don't have a educated mass of peopel, where are you going to get the ingeneers and doctors and workers to build you a nation???
And if a women is educated she can teach her sons not to treat his wife like a slave but as a human being and let her daughters get an education so that her daughter can get a better future and also stand up against the husband if he is traing to give her away to some old man. That kind of effect have education, everybody knows that by just simply educating someone will not make everything magicaly better but it is a turn in the right direction.
Yes even the educated can abuse there wife but and educated women can make it stop before the husband can kill he, and yes even in the west sometimes it ends in murder but the majority can escape an abusive relationship becuase the women is independent and can teke care of her self if she is alone, but in places like Afghanistan she will suffer the rest of her live.
And lets leave Europe and US aside look at Japan, South Korea, TAiwan and Sigapore, why are this nation so ahead of the muslim world????


I have seen...illiterate women

raise Professors, Accountants, Engineers,

Doctors... Barristers.....ect.


I have...seen

educated women...destroy their...sons...

and become...losers, by

over pampering...them.

So its a mixer ...some illiterate

women...are ignorant,

some educated...women are...ignorant.

So in my opinion...its not Eduction...

that makes anyone... a better person.

Its how...the inner self...is.

I believe in...education.

I think education is...important

to...be self sufficient.


A woman will not...stop her son...from treating

his wife like...a punch bag, or a slave...because of

education.

Its fear of Allah s.w.t ,

empathy...good inner self...

that can stop...that.

My opinion is people...lack fear of Allah s.w.t.

If you fear Allah s.w.t you...will naturally...stop

all the...crimes.

If men fear Allah s.w.t and the...last day.

He will...not commit the crimes

he...does against...women.

Its all about...humanity, empathy.

Western women are Educated..why can't

they stop...the domestic...violence ?

Why do they put up...with it ?

Why are western...men so cruel,

their...educated ?

The U.S.A Soldiers...that,

rape and beat our...Afghan women,

then kill...them.

They are Educated.

Why do they do...such crimes?


I believe the sun should never set upon an argument.
I believe forgiveness is the key to your unhappiness.

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Breshna For This Useful Post:
badmash_khel (04-21-2012)
Reply

Tags
afghan, afghanistan, biggest, victims, women

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




History of Pashtuns| Learn Pashto Online| Afghan Wiki| TheHujra.com| Pukhtoogle| Afghanvoice.com| Khyber.org| Pukhto.net| Tor_Khan's blog| Abdul Rahman Karim's blog| Voices of the Pashtun land| Pashto TV

User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
No part of this site may be copied without permission of the administration. The views, posts, opinions and threads expressed by members of the community here are not necessarily those of the staff and management of Pashtun Forums.