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Default what is the origin of shias? - 12-13-2010, 05:49 PM

Why they are called shian-e-ali?
And why they bark against hazrat omar, hazrat abubakar, hazrat ayesha? Or its just a false propaganda.
Please clearify me


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Default 12-13-2010, 05:59 PM

i have a shia friend from orakzai, i dont want to offend him by such sensitive questions so i have asked here.


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:01 PM

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Originally Posted by MI6 View Post
I think the Shia were created due to the Policies of the Arabs in regards to the Muwalis, I am sure due to the oppression and second class status of Persians let to the Shia movement. I am just guessing here from what I know, maybe I am wrong but you are free to correct me.

But Again, they are just as backward. Firstly just recently Iranian Mullah said Earthquakes and floods occur because Women wear indecent clothes, not just this they also practice Mutah which is marriage by contract and the woman has zero rights.

Anyway, if a Pashtun is a shia, who cares, I love all my Pashtuns!
dnt talk abt things u dnt knw backwards.....

shia refers to the supporters of Imam Ali... initially politically... the shia claim to be upholding the teachings of the ahle bayt as shown by the teachings of the imams....


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:03 PM

Dreamer r u a shia?


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Luffy View Post
Why they are called shian-e-ali?
And why they bark against hazrat omar, hazrat abubakar, hazrat ayesha? Or its just a false propaganda.
Please clearify me
Shia are against those who are against the ahle bayt...
Im not saying the said mentionsed individuals were or were not... history testifies to ones actions
but with Abu Bakr its abt his treatment of Bibi fatima and userping her rights to Fadak and taking the Caliphate from imam Ali
Umer same
Ayesha its abt the battle of the camel....


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:08 PM

But i have never heard that hazrat ali protested over nomination of hazrat abubakar and omar as caliphs?
Some guys say that shia belive that hazrat ali was to b given prophethood bt jibrael mistakenly went to hazrat mohammad, is it true?


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Luffy View Post
But i have never heard that hazrat ali protested over nomination of hazrat abubakar and omar as caliphs?
Some guys say that shia belive that hazrat ali was to b given prophethood bt jibrael mistakenly went to hazrat mohammad, is it true?
read Bukhari then... as for being given prophethood... shias dnt believe that except the ghulat sects such as the alavi etc
Imam didnt give baya for at least 6 months after death of prophet....


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Default 12-13-2010, 06:19 PM

All Pushtun Brothers,
I really appreciate your comment I am sure you guys got more knowledge than me, let me point out one thing that Shias are muslims and all this fuss has been created against them to divide muslims and pushtuns. I think anything which can divide us shouldn't be pursued. I hope I didn't offend anybody if I did apologies in adavnce. Please please we are going through a stage where we are on the brink of total vanish we should discuss more productive topics.
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Default 12-14-2010, 04:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Luffy View Post
Why they are called shian-e-ali?
And why they bark against hazrat omar, hazrat abubakar, hazrat ayesha? Or its just a false propaganda.
Please clearify me
The term "Shia" simply means "followers, or members of a party". So, if used by itself, the term "Shia" is just meaningless, unless we specify the leader of the party. You could be Shia of Ali(AS) and Muhammad(SAWAW), or you could be a Shia (Follower) of Moavia (LA) and Umar. For example, Quran (37:83), states "And most surely Abraham (AS) was among the Shia of him (i.e. Noah)". "Among the Shia.." simply means that Abraham (AS) was among the believers/followers of Noah(AS). Allah used the word Shia to refer to the followers of his Prophet(PBUT). For example, in Aya 28 (verse 15), you can find that Allah to the follower of Musa(AS) as "Shia": "Haza min Shiatehee". Notice that the wod Shia is explicitly used, word by word, in the below verse. But it's funny how all of the online translations of this verse I was reading changed the word Shia to something else when translating.

So Shia simply means "follower of" [insert your leader's name here]. Now, if you are a Shia (follower) of the most righteous servants, than there is nothing wrong with being Shia, especially if the leader has been appointed by Allah. But on the other hand, if you are a shia of a tyrant or a wrong-doer, then you have to meet the fate of your leader.
Quran 17:71: One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams..

Imams are distinguished into two categories: 1. are those who invite others to hellfire, 2. are those who are appointed by Allah.

In Aya 28 (41-42), it is stated that some Imams invite people to hell fire:
"And we made them (but) Imams (i.e. leaders) inviting to the Fire..."
If you follow this type of imams then surely you will face the consequences on the Day of Judgment.

And then there are those Imams appointed by Allah:
Quran 32:24 And We appointed, from among them, Imams, giving guidance under Our command.
Surely, the true Shias (followers) of these Imams would be the real prosperous on the day of resurrection.

Now, even if you are very pious and what not, but if your Imam (the leader that you chose to follow) is of the type mentioned in Aya 28, you still meet the fate of your leader. As you continue reading verses 78 (Aya 28) and onward , it becomes clear that some people would regret following XYZ, while others would be pleased to have chosen ABC as their Imams.
One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Quran 17:71)

Now, accumulating everything from above, is there a need to explain why Shian-e-Ali(AS) and not shian-e-moavia(LA)? Or is it self explanatory?
I have a question for you: If you were present during Jang Siffin, would you have been on Ali's (AS) side or Moavia's (LA) side? If your fourth Caliph had ordered you to kill moavia (LA) would you have done so or not? Simple answer would be great.
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Default 12-15-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haider Bangash 2.0 View Post
The term "Shia" simply means "followers, or members of a party". So, if used by itself, the term "Shia" is just meaningless, unless we specify the leader of the party. You could be Shia of Ali(AS) and Muhammad(SAWAW), or you could be a Shia (Follower) of Moavia (LA) and Umar. For example, Quran (37:83), states "And most surely Abraham (AS) was among the Shia of him (i.e. Noah)". "Among the Shia.." simply means that Abraham (AS) was among the believers/followers of Noah(AS). Allah used the word Shia to refer to the followers of his Prophet(PBUT). For example, in Aya 28 (verse 15), you can find that Allah to the follower of Musa(AS) as "Shia": "Haza min Shiatehee". Notice that the wod Shia is explicitly used, word by word, in the below verse. But it's funny how all of the online translations of this verse I was reading changed the word Shia to something else when translating.

So Shia simply means "follower of" [insert your leader's name here]. Now, if you are a Shia (follower) of the most righteous servants, than there is nothing wrong with being Shia, especially if the leader has been appointed by Allah. But on the other hand, if you are a shia of a tyrant or a wrong-doer, then you have to meet the fate of your leader.
Quran 17:71: One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams..
as i understand it the correct way would be 2 "not get involved" lol..... i.e favour neither side..
Imams are distinguished into two categories: 1. are those who invite others to hellfire, 2. are those who are appointed by Allah.

In Aya 28 (41-42), it is stated that some Imams invite people to hell fire:
"And we made them (but) Imams (i.e. leaders) inviting to the Fire..."
If you follow this type of imams then surely you will face the consequences on the Day of Judgment.

And then there are those Imams appointed by Allah:
Quran 32:24 And We appointed, from among them, Imams, giving guidance under Our command.
Surely, the true Shias (followers) of these Imams would be the real prosperous on the day of resurrection.

Now, even if you are very pious and what not, but if your Imam (the leader that you chose to follow) is of the type mentioned in Aya 28, you still meet the fate of your leader. As you continue reading verses 78 (Aya 28) and onward , it becomes clear that some people would regret following XYZ, while others would be pleased to have chosen ABC as their Imams.
One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Quran 17:71)

Now, accumulating everything from above, is there a need to explain why Shian-e-Ali(AS) and not shian-e-moavia(LA)? Or is it self explanatory?
I have a question for you: If you were present during Jang Siffin, would you have been on Ali's (AS) side or Moavia's (LA) side? If your fourth Caliph had ordered you to kill moavia (LA) would you have done so or not? Simple answer would be great.

as i understand it the correct sunni way would be 2 "not get involved" lol..... i.e favour neither side..


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