Pashto and Sakas.

[Afghanfootball]

k

[Brown Skinned Savage]

The only source for this statement is here

http://afghanforum.afghansite.com/index.php?showtopic=2191

In fact, I'm the one who posted that on the Afghansite forums nearly 7 years ago.


I did some background research and found this Statement was never by Morgenstierme but was edited and distorted by other Pashtuns.

This is what Georg Morgenstierme said as quotted by Pohand Abdul Hai Habibi

is as follows:

However, in the second edition of the English version of The Encyclopaedia of Islam he has written an article on the Pashto language where he says:

"Pashto is in its origin and structure an Iranian language, although it has borrowed freely from Indo-Aryan. It shares all the common Iranian sound-changes. It sides with other Eastern Ir. languages... In its origin it is probably a "Saka" dialect, introduced from the North, but it is not possible to define its relationship more closely..."

Source:https://www.alamahabibi.com/English%...hazana_Eng.pdf

What the quote by the OP is a total misquote.

[Loy Afghanistan]

@Loy Afghanistan @Kushan Prince
Any comments?

Well grana wroor. I can for certain give you any information you want. The only thing I need is DNA samples of ancient Saka graveyards and we can compare it to Pashtuns in modern time.

I have been contacting Pashtuns around the world, so we can make these kind of scientific analyst and write it down with history and lineage of Pashtuns + its closest cousins.

Biologist and other researchers are conducting today with bulletproof science how to analyse animal world and their family tree all the way to archaea, bacteria, and eukaryote.

So that is billions of years going back to animal family. It will be 10 million time easier to date back Pashtun ancestry wroora.

[Bengal_Tiger]

[MENTION=18140]Kushan Saka[/MENTION]

Any comments?

[Bengal_Tiger]

wrora, You can also add to your list the Indo-Scythian kingdom created by the Saka in Afghanistan and Northwestern India but they were very close related to the later Kushan, who were also of saka origin but orginated more in the east. Pashtuns are decendants of eastern Saka who lived in afghanistan and survived the turco-mongolian invasion. Before the turks invaded central asia , people closely related to pashtuns ( Saka, Sarmatians, Scythians, Massagetae,...) populated all of Central Asia and even south russia.

You are right, the Bactrians spoke an eastern iranic language like modern Pashtuns and Scythians .Their language was not related to persian but closely related to modern pashto and pamiri languages. They died out in northern Afghanistan because Turks and Persians forced them to adopt persian. But many of them survived as Pashtuns till today. Pashtuns are descendants of many different native eastern iranic tribes (Saka, Kushan, Hepthalites, Arachosians, Kamboja/Asvaka, Bactrians) who joined a tribal confederation and represent with pamiri people the native population of central asia before persians and turks invaded it.

Scythians or saka have nothing to do with semites or jews. Their languages had not even one semitic word and we know their language a bit from texts in Khotan and Afghanistan. Scythian is derived from the indoeuropean root "skeud" to shoot and scythians used the term "skuda/skula" for Archer.



Saka is derived from another iranic root sak- go,roam and was orginally a term used by persians to describe the northern iranic tribes who lived as nomads.

the name indo-scythian is a bit confusing but this Saka were originally from central asia and Afghanistan. They invaded india and had several kingdoms there but it was not an indian empire in the strict sense because the saka were not indians and many of their kingdoms were in modern afghanistan and areas of Pakistan where today pashtuns live.

From the thread; Afghan Empires?

[Kushan Prince]

Thank you very much for posting this [MENTION=1004]afghan[/MENTION]football wrora. I have known about Morgenstine's contribution to Pashto language and and his theories and i appreciate him very much! Apparently, he had gone to Afghanistan and studied the language and culture of Pashtuns for 22 years now, its obvious he is a very dedicated soul! I was going to post this at the right time but you beat me to it!

And yes i agree with him that Pakhto came from the north. A north to south migration always makes sense.

[Badlun]

George Morgenstierne on Pashto : “Pashto is an Eastern Iranian language that was brought from Bactrus( Bactra--modern Balkh) to southern Afghanistan. Its speakers were Sakas who migrated to Siestan (Sakistan) in 2nd Century B.C. Before this, Pashto and other Saka dialects like Pamiri, in particular Munji and Yadgha, were spoken in the same style. Moreover, it had a close affinity with Ephtalite and Kushanian languages. Proto Pashto had a very close affinity with Avesta but was more intimately linked to Saka. It seems that after its early phase in Pamir and Balakh, Pashto completed its middle phase (Middle Pashto) in Siestan, Helmand, Ghor, and Arachoazia (Kandahar) and modern phase (Modern Pashto) in Kasi Ghar (Suleiman Mountains). There is two surviving modern languages closest to Scythian are Ossetian in the Caucasus mountains and Pashto in Afghanistan."

Can you please give link to this post which will specify that these are George Morgenstierne's words. As BSS objected above that these are not George Morgenstierne's words.

[Kushan Prince]

Can you please give link to this post which will specify that these are George Morgenstierne's words. As BSS objected above that these are not George Morgenstierne's words.

George is the source himself and yes he did say this, BSS (AKA RTR) is nothing more than an Arab troll trying to rob Pashtuns of their history. He thinks before Islam, Pashtuns magically appeared out of nowhere.

[Kushan Prince]

No problem wror
Yes George Morganstine is a great historian who's opinion I respect because he has Lived in the region and doesnt ignore us like the rest who give all our people's accomplishments to Iran or India. Though one thing I don't agree with him about is he says Ghorids are Tajiks.

I don't think Ghorids are Tajiks either, most historians don't since they were native to Afghanistan and spoke Pashto between themselves but used Farsi as a court language.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I mean one fact kills all of Smutty and Brown Skin Dumbasses arguements. They're last name was SURI.

Ignore Badlun, he is cunning. He is a proven liar (saying he is a Shinwari on one thread and a Safi on another) and trying to make the thread revolve around Brown Wikipedia Savage. He knows that possibly 20% of the regular users here have blocked Brown Wikipedia Savage and have bypassed him in this thread and rendered him irrelevant, so he wants to make us all respond to Brown and his garbage.

Badlun has never shown any great interest in the history of the Pashto language or historiography of it (though he is very interested in literature and dialects) but *suddenly* has this interest. He has an agenda of promoting Brown Wikipedia Savage as can be seen in his Brown Wikipedia Savage appreciation thread.

[Bengal_Tiger]

George is the source himself and yes he did say this, BSS (AKA RTR) is nothing more than an Arab troll trying to rob Pashtuns of their history. He thinks before Islam, Pashtuns magically appeared out of nowhere.

Good to see people waking up to the reality of this Arab nationalist from Yemen who has been trolling, insulting, harassing Pashtuns on this forum for nearly half a decade now, destroying the site (e.g. chasing female users away) and trying to undermine Pashtun history and identity.

He also hates to see a religious Muslim like me show more interest in Pashtun affairs than in Arab affairs, so has launched a campaign of targeting me.

I don't think anyone should take an Arab nationalist clown from Yemen who said he wants to make a female user here pregnant seriously.



Brown Wikipedia Savage a.k.a. RevolutionThroughReason a.k.a Mahmoud Al-Yemeni, July 2012, in the Adios Amigos thread.

[Zahed]

Pashtuns indeed have strong links to Sakas..but by serving Pakistan they have abandoned their roots. I would say Afghan Uzbeks are the closest modern proxies to Scythians. General Dostum even employs female soldiers in his ranks and has a unit known as "tahm-rayish," named after Tomyris, the Scythian queen famous for having eviscerated Cyrus of Persian. Many Talib **** were demolished by these Uzbek warrioresses.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Pashtuns are not egalitarian as the Scythians, so how would that have been the case?