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Default Universe is both orderly and chaotic - 09-26-2012, 10:46 PM

If you think about it, Universe seems to be both orderly and chaotic at the same time. I mean there are things right here in the world that are orderly, yet at the same time there is so much randomness and chaos around us that can ruin this order.

My question is why is the universe like this? if God made things in order, why is there so much chaos? or if the universe is just made by luck, why does any order exist?
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Default 09-27-2012, 10:32 AM

Its matter of perspective. Are you seeing the big picture, are considering in an idealised way all parts?

The cosmos, as understood from observation of physical scientists, is thermodynamically an isolated system. It is a concept - where matter and energy are not exchanged ( where can they go?). [Entropy: measure of disorder or energy to do work]

The entropy of such system is increasing, even if somewhere in the universe entropy is decreasing, like a potter making a clay cup. The potter has added order into the randomness of the clay. But by taking the clay from its place entropy ( the disorder) has increased. Further, entropy wins again, because leave the clay cup in the elements, give it time it will eventually become earth again. Disorder will increase.
I therefore conclude from observations that increasing entropy is the natural order of the cosmos. Its the nature of the cosmos, leave it alone and its constituents tend to randomness, driven by gravity.


Another good example is the melting ice. Check it out on the internet, it doesn't require quantum statistic, simple high school physics and maths.

It is science, so don't gamble on it like a fool, its the model we have right now, every new discovery get us closer to the truth.

BTW need care with words like chaos and random, they have mathematical and physical context.

Last edited by torkham; 09-27-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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Default 09-27-2012, 11:08 PM

^ what about humans though? we are also part of the universe. Our ability to think and do is (order) in itself, this is not disorder, where does this order come from?

Last edited by Karachi; 09-27-2012 at 11:11 PM.
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Default 09-28-2012, 12:03 AM

First, we can't define either without the other. For order to exist we must experience chaos and vice versa. Ying yang, white black, light and darkness, hot and cold, earth and water, 1 and 0, on and off, neo and smith. One exists and the other defines it's non-existence.

So chaos explains the none existence of order in the universe, where universe was meant to be orderly. You can see that by the eventuality of things over a period of time how galaxies, solar systems etc. come into being from chaos.
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Default 09-28-2012, 12:14 AM

I'll give my input when I have something cognitively coherent to contribute
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Default 09-28-2012, 06:30 PM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
I'll give my input when I have something cognitively coherent to contribute
Funniest reply for a long while, . . . . a little like that video clip you posted where a guy faces reality and suffers cataclysmic dissonance or was it cognitive dissonance?
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Default 09-28-2012, 06:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Karachi View Post
^ what about humans though? we are also part of the universe. Our ability to think and do is (order) in itself, this is not disorder, where does this order come from?
I don't know man, that's deep stuff.

I guess, in the framework of natural sciences and principles of mathematics, the thinking part, i assume you meant cognitive thought based on synaptic jumping electrical impulses that make up 'thought', and the consequences, the actions (do), are components of what is mass and energy in thermodynamic studies. Mass and energy, are bread and butter of Mechanics. So human thoughts and actions (things humans do) are, using a thermodynamics filter, in the same category, order tending to disorder.
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Default 09-28-2012, 07:19 PM

i believe in the yin/yang type, balance to the universe. dying, living, negative, positive, creation, destruction, all balancing each other.
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