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Default 08-19-2012, 05:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Toramana View Post
I think the prototype Pashtun ethnicity started somewhere a couple of centuries BC. Gongovsky suggests the early Iranian tribes formed the initial substratum. These might have been Sythians or Iranians earlier than Sythians. Each successive wave of invader added to it with the biggest contribution coming from Kushans-Haphthalites probably.

Pashto is a Saka language according to linguists (one language or dialect spoken by a section of Sythains).
Ok - with te language I knew it.
Hephthalites now are somehow uncertain if Iranic or Takhar or am I wrong? In the first case generally the Saka language would be somehow close, in the second the Takhar language is known to be quiet different. Interesting if there are comparings between Takharian and Pashto?
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Default 08-19-2012, 05:09 PM

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That is interesting. Do you have any sources on it?
My sources are not the most reliable.
Generally I personally read the "Hitory of Armenia" of Movses from Khorena, but other ancient historians also describe a lot the Kushan.
The problem is, ancient and medieval Armenian historians are quiet politized and lacked good knowledge of Afghanistans polupation, so everybdy from approximately Afghanistan is called Kushan , even in times where this name was not existing or even in situations where turkmen tribes are described.
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Default 08-19-2012, 05:27 PM

Armenians appeared in Afghanistan mostly due to Persian empire. In different ways. First of all Kushan rulers and Arshakid rulers were somehow relatives - so after Ardeshirs victory in Persia, the Armenian Arshakids and the Kushans interacted a lot on how to resolve the situation. Later Sasanids used Armenian toops against Kushans, and the Armenians didn't want to fight against their brothers and went on the Kushans side, so many hhad no possibility to return and stood there.
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Default 08-19-2012, 05:35 PM

Early precursors to some of the Pashtuns may have been old Iranian tribes that spread throughout the eastern Iranian plateau.[48] According to the Russian scholar Yu. V. Gankovsky, the Pashtuns probably began as a "union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis, dates from the middle of the first millennium CE and is connected with the dissolution of the Epthalites (White Huns) confederacy." He proposes Kushan-o-Ephthalite origin for Pashtuns[49][50] but others draw a different conclusion. Some oriental scholars hold that the second largest Pasthun tribe, the Ghilzais, are the descendants of a mixed race of Hephthalite and Pakhtas who have been living in Afghanistan since the Vedic Aryan period.[39]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtuns
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Default 08-19-2012, 05:42 PM

Yes, that is why it would be so interesting to make closer studies on eastern Iranian languages connection, on the local indeuropean but not Iranic languages and so on...
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Default 08-19-2012, 06:53 PM

http://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultu...h02-08enl.html
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Default 08-20-2012, 07:23 AM

Dear Toramana, if You want I can translate some of the texts from ancient Armenian historians in English, but i need time for it, and also these historians are not trustable so much, as they are mostly christian fanatics and told some half-truth or lies about many events.
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Default 08-20-2012, 07:31 AM

First - Movses from KHorena about the origin of Parthians(book II, chapter 68):

Sacred history presents us Abraham, the twenty-first patriarch after Adam. From Abraham come the Parthian people. The Scripture says iafter the death of Sarah, Abraham took as his wife Kheturah, from which were born Imran and his brothers, whom Abraham, in his lifetime had separated from Isaac, and sent the east. From him originate the Parthians and the last - Arshak the Brave, who overthrew the Macedonian rulers, and reigned in the land of the Kushans 31 years, and after him his son Artashes - 26 years, followed by his son, Arshak, called the Great, who killed Antiochus. Arshaks brother Vaharshak was made ​​king of Armenia, making him second on its own. He himself went to Bakhl, took his throne and reigned for 53 years. Therefore, his descendants were called Pakhlevan, as well as the descendants of his brother by the name of an ancestor Vaharshak are named Arshakuni.
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Default 08-20-2012, 07:50 AM

Second - Movses of Khorena(book II, chapter 72):

Khosrov(the Armenian king) again sent messengers to his relatives the Parthians and Pahlavans and to all the the lands of the Kushans asking for vengeance to Ardashir Papakan , promising them the kings post to the most worthy of themnot passable to another imperial power. But the tribes of Aspahapet and of Suren not expressed consent, so Khosrov returned to our country not so much pleased with the victory, as his sadened with the refusal of his relatives. Then a message arrived from the noblest of tribe living in the innermost part of the State, in Bakhl, that his relative Vehsachan(Vasudev), from the tribe of Karen(Karan) did not submit to Ardashir, and will follow Khosrovs call.
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Default 08-20-2012, 07:55 AM

Chapter 73:
Although very pleased about the arrival of his relatives, Khosrovs joy did not last long: he soon received sad news that Ardashir led all his troops walk on the footsteps of Karen (Karan), overtook him and killed him and his the whole family, children except one boy. Burz,who was a friend of the house of Karan, took the boy and went into the land of the Kushans and took him to his relatives. Ardashir, despite their best efforts to have the boy could not him from his relatives and against his will gave an oath not to endanger the boys life...The boys name wass Perozamat, the great ancestor of the Kamsarakan tribe.
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