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Default Why I知 not celebrating U.S. exit from Afghanistan - 08-01-2012, 09:55 PM

uly 28, 2012

Why I知 not celebrating U.S. exit from Afghanistan

Pervez Hoodbhoy
Viewpoint Magazine, Pakistan
After a trillion dollars and 2000 dead Americans, there is precious
little to show as the U.S. heads towards its 2014 exit. America痴
primary goal had been to create a stable, non-hostile Afghan
government and army which could stop extremist groups from once again
using Afghan territory as a base. But Hamid Karzai is already on the
way out, rapid desertions could collapse the Afghan National Army, and
only die-hards like Marine Gen. John Allen say that the U.S. can win.
The Taliban are smelling victory.

America痴 failure drives many bearded folks and Imran Khan痴
thoughtless supporters into fits of ecstasy. It also delights some
Pakistani leftists at home and abroad; imperialism has been humbled.
Some comrades imagine that a mythical Afghan 努orking class
whatever that might mean will pop up from nowhere and somehow stop
the Taliban from moving in as fast as the Americans move out. Do they
also hope for snowflakes in summer?

Foreign occupation is usually cruel, and it is easy to understand how
the Americans have alienated Afghans with serial murderers like
Sergeant Bales, Quran burnings, and aerial bombings of wedding
parties. One certainly wishes they had never come to this part of the
world and, particularly, that Pakistan had not become their willing
pawn in the great anti-Soviet jihad.

But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
between continued American presence and Taliban rule. Of course, by
some miracle, the Afghan National Army could perhaps hang on with the
help of American air power. But for this to happen, even the Almighty
might be hard pressed.

Face it, comrades. What the Americans did in Afghanistan pales before
the crimes committed by the Taliban government, 1996-2001. As the
people of Swat were also to see a decade later, these lords of war
reduced society to unspeakable barbarity. They proscribed music and
sports in Afghanistan, inflicted harsh punishments upon men for
trimming their beards, flogged taxi drivers for carrying women
passengers, prevented sick women from being treated by male
physicians, and banished girls from schools and women from the work
place. Bodies of opponents swung from Kabul痴 lamp posts for days
before being taken down. Iran denounced the new Pakistan-supported
victors as 吐anatical, mediaeval Taliban after they slaughtered 5000
Shias in Bamiyan province.

The Taliban are the most retrograde political movement in the history
of Islam. But today some Pakistani TV commentators, with an eye
towards pleasing GHQ, prattle away about the 渡ew Taliban being
different from the 登ld Taliban. It痴 complete poppycock. One hears
of atrocities almost every day: wherever the Taliban are strong in
Afghanistan or Pakistan, they are back to their sick habits of summary
executions, stoning women and men to death, and chopping hands. Just
go to Google and find videos posted by the Taliban proudly advertising
their atrocities.

For those friends who plan to pop champagne in Islamabad, Lahore, or
London to celebrate the American exit, here痴 a simple challenge.
Leave your make-believe world, go live under Taliban rule and, if you
are fortunate enough to return, tell us how it was. If you are Shia,
Hazara, woman, or one who cannot be silent upon witnessing wanton
cruelty, be sure to say goodbye to your loved ones.

Instead of the Taliban, our comrades are free to pick from any of the
following replacements of American imperial rule: Hezb-e-Wahdat,
Hezb-e-Islami, Jamiat-e-Islami, or ten others. Whichever you choose
doesn稚 really matter. I suspect that this will knock out their
anti-imperialist rhetoric pretty fast.

Call the international community **** if you like. But, compared to a
decade ago, Afghan women today are said to live an average of 15 years
longer than they did a decade ago because of better health care,
nutrition and increased GDP. Tell us what the bearded folks plan to
bring instead?

So what is the future of Afghanistan after 2014?

There is zero chance of a secular, pluralistic democracy. Tribal
Afghan society, locked into primitive concepts of honor and revenge,
is likely to remain unenlightened and torn apart by internal conflicts
for generations to come. Afghans are already bracing for civil war
after 2014.

The only question is: what could be the least bad outcome? Since we
Pakistanis must live with a theocracy next door, then one can only
wish for a relatively enlightened version rather than a barbaric one.

A relatively peaceful future will require that power in
post-withdrawal Afghanistan be pluralistically shared by the country痴
diverse ethnic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, etc. The
alternative is limitless butchery.

Regional actors can and must prevent this, as well as prevent a repeat
of earlier Taliban horrors. To this end, Pakistan should give up its
craving for 都trategic depth, Iran should be brought in to the
picture by the U.S as a helpful ally, India should refrain from
intrusions into Afghanistan that might antagonize Pakistan, and China
must not signal the Taliban that it can fund them in exchange for
mining rights. None of this is likely. But in despair one sometimes
asks even for the moon.
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Default 08-03-2012, 03:47 AM

Do you think ANY Afghans would ever accept Taliban in the previous role of Govt?

Seems to have as much chance of regaining control as as a 'new, resurgent' Arthur Andersen regaining their share of the accounting business.

Last edited by SiiNii; 08-03-2012 at 03:50 AM.
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Default 08-03-2012, 02:56 PM

But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
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Default 08-04-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by osho View Post
But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
I think Taleban and Islamic militancy is the worst evil for Muslim societies. It has lead to the social and political fragmentation of our societies and paved the way for foreigners' intervention in our lands.
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Default 08-04-2012, 01:39 PM

ته مسلمان نه یی او پښتون هم نه یی.
نو دا عق تا له چا درکو چه د مسلمانانو نوم خپل ناوړی غیر اسلامې اجنډی لپاره استعمال کړی

تکړه شه لکه خپل سولدات امیر په شانتی او خلکو باندی ځان سم وپیژنه
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Default 08-04-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by osho View Post
But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
I don't think that the talibans will take kabul again.. With the nato&U.S support of the new republic, it will be hard for them ?


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Default 08-04-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by osho View Post
Today there is only the cruel choice
between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
This day depends on yourself. As long as Taliban are seen as the only option to avoid foreigners and aslong as foreign presence is seen as the only wayto oppose Taliban nothing will change. Therefore action is needed, continous and very hard work.


Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:
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Default 08-04-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by بریدمل View Post
ته مسلمان نه یی او پښتون هم نه یی.
نو دا عق تا له چا درکو چه د مسلمانانو نوم خپل ناوړی غیر اسلامې اجنډی لپاره استعمال کړی

تکړه شه لکه خپل سولدات امیر په شانتی او خلکو باندی ځان سم وپیژنه
Really, I don't need the fanatic interpretation of Islam or Pashtunwali that you adhere to. In my view that is just a poison. I am ok with what I am. Being a Pashtun or a fanatic Muslim is not the ultimate thing in life.
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Default 08-05-2012, 03:17 AM

afghans will never have real peace and freedom as long as there is occupation and interference. what we have here is an artificial bubble that will eventually burst. you can't denounce paki interference while cheering american interference and vice versa.


There is nothing in our book, the Qur'an, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That's a good religion.

- Malcolm X
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Default 08-07-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by randolph85 View Post
afghans will never have real peace and freedom as long as there is occupation and interference. what we have here is an artificial bubble that will eventually burst. you can't denounce paki interference while cheering american interference and vice versa.


Paki interference = American interference.

Pakis interfere by supporting American interference with NATO supplies (giving heavy weaponry).

NATO war/Karzai regime is not possible without Pakistan support.

Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 08-07-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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