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Reload this Page Science and the Islamic world—The quest for rapprochement
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Default 08-01-2012, 12:24 AM

Iran produces one of the highest rate for female PHDs in the world.
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Levanaye Zalmaye Levanaye Zalmaye is offline
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Default 08-01-2012, 02:04 AM

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Originally Posted by randolph85 View Post
acting as if secularism is the saving grace of intellectual progress in the islamic world is not honest. the islamic "golden era" thrived a 1000 years ago under islamic law, the kind of society that would make liberals of today hate muslims even more. if it were a simple matter of islamic fundamentalists keeping the muslim world backwards, than we would see all the "istans" besides afghanistan and pakistan excelling in these fields. the truth is that they don't, even with their near 100% literacy rates.

take iran for example, its post islamic revolution contribution to science and technology far surpasses its pre revolution past under the secular shah.

That's actually not very accurate at all. The sort of society that you had in the Medieval Middle-East would utterly shock the modern Talib, Saudi, Salafi, Iranian cleric and Pakistani nationalist. You just have to look at their works on philosophy and their admiration for the Greek way of thinking to gauge how opened-minded their great thinkers were..

In fact, ibn Rushd's upholding of Greek logic was refuted not through a fatwa or death-threats but by a book written by the more orthodox Imam Ghazali. Ibn Rushd responded by writing another book. Moreover, ibn Haitham and ibn Sina deduced truths not from scripture but from what we now know as the scientific method. Compare them with our modern zombies of Harun Yahya.

Modern Muslims are the equivalent of the Medieval Europeans, who refused to accept that the sun was at the center of the solar system.

Iran is following in the footsteps of the Shah. The Shah thought he could have a modern 'European' society without giving the masses their freedom. The Ayatollahs now believe that they can have a scientific society whilst severely subduing the people's desire for freedom. It will end in failure.


"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".
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Default 08-01-2012, 08:15 AM

Science>Religion


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Default 08-01-2012, 08:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Bharati View Post
Science>Religion
True but Islam is superior to all other isms and sciences.
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Default 08-01-2012, 09:29 AM

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True but Islam is superior to all other isms and sciences.
Science>all


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RevolutionThroughReason RevolutionThroughReason is offline
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Default 08-01-2012, 01:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Admin Khan View Post
I think Muslim Scientists in the west are on the rise. Take a look at most higher educational websites in the US, and you'd be shocked to not find a bunch of Muslim scientists engaged in ground-breaking research scenarios. The reason why Muslim dominated countries can't produce is because of foreign-meddling and instability, such problems should not be attributed to religion.
also something called "brain drain"
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Default 08-01-2012, 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Friend View Post
True but Islam is superior to all other isms and sciences.
can a Mullah with no scientific knowledge cure cancer, travel to the moon, make a place once desert into a lush vegetated region?

Last edited by RevolutionThroughReason; 08-01-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Default 08-01-2012, 01:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
That's actually not very accurate at all. The sort of society that you had in the Medieval Middle-East would utterly shock the modern Talib, Saudi, Salafi, Iranian cleric and Pakistani nationalist.

What Randolph is saying is that this all happened under the framework of Shari'ah Law


Which is true, whether the Sa'udis, Talibs or whoever else you mention would be accepting of the interpretation of the Shari'ah they had in place, is another issue.

Al-Akam Al-Sultaniyah is an accurate historical document which details the Islamic Legal System in place during the Golden Era which housed Ibn Haytham and Ibn Rushd. There was an Islamic Penal System, which is the main anathema most modern secularists have with Islamic Law. Veiled women were giving lectures at Bayt Al Hikmah and determining prices in Baghdad.

The problem we have is that both Hardcore Fanatics and Secularists from the Muslim world are seeing our own history from Post-Colonial eyes. rather than the eyes of the times.

I don't think it is a fair characterization that Muslims of today are like the Mideival Europeans; the Medieval Europeans were not in a Post Colonial Time where they were trying to retain their central zeitgeist while meeting the challenges of advancing in the world.
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Khostai Khostai is online now
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Default 08-01-2012, 02:14 PM

^You must not forget, that medievel Europe was once colonised by Rome. Once Romes power was gona all those north European countries were independant, and also the knowledge and art work that was brought by romans was gone. And the dark ages began.
The same whith Muslims of today, they were colonised, after colonisation some time they had the same style as during colonisation( secular goverments). But that is going down and we are entering dark ages now.
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Default 08-01-2012, 02:39 PM

To say Rome colonized Europe is not just a misrepresentation, it is inaccurate. Romans were Europeans and it presided over Europeans. Rome did colonize in the B.C. era but this was BEFORE Christianity and at that time Romans were too decadent to care about trying to control the cultures and societies of Ancient Europe. Hence Visigoths remained Visgoths and Greeks remained Greeks. Roman influence changed in medeival times, they represented the mainstream cultural zeitgeist of Europe and this remained the case until MODERN times. Rome only ceased being a powerful influence in the LAST century. England did get rid of Rome earlier on, but THEN they started taking authority/influence from The Church of England, which the King of England was head of. The Russians never had Roman influence, they were influenced under the Russian Orthodox Church and it retained its influence UNTIL the end of the Czarist era which was the start of Bolshevik Revolution.

So Europe retained their respective influences for centuries.....the main change was that during this time, Europe started colonizing and expanding their influenced of where they can exploit. This catapulted Europes increase of raw materials which drove the industrial revolution, which would not have been possible without it. And in the process demarcated the rest of the world.

The current world economy is a Post Colonial World economy, and that's what Muslims are up against. Saudi Arabia with all of its oil, is NOT even in control of its own oil, it's under the control of North American oil producers. Iran is embargoed. So Europe's progress had little or nothing to do with Rome losing influence, and our decline has little to do with Islamic influence.
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