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Default 07-02-2012, 05:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Tor Gul View Post
Paht Mal

I am going to respectfully disagree with the Admiral.
China knows our country's ability to wage war, both immediate & long term (probably better than we do). We already have significant ground forces in South Korea & Japan (Okinawa). We have tremendous Naval presence in Japan, including carriers and their aircraft. And we have significant Air power in Japan. Additionally the same B-52s that carpet bombed Iraqi forces in 92 could easily hit China by flying over Thailand. We are already in their in their backyard (sideyard & frontyard too for that matter).
Of far greater importance than showing that we can is showing that we will oppose them as necessary. That changes with each new President.
Far more effective than a presence in Afghanistan, would be the bombing of Iran the next time China warns us not to.
As for the Paki hardware, I am reminded of the Iraqi that asked me if it was true that I had to kill a family member to become a US Marine. I told him, "yes, but it doesn't have to be one you like."
Hi Tor Gul,

I didn't quite understand your rebuttal. Do you really think USA went to Afghanistan to wipe out the "terrorists"? Remind you, University of Nebraska were printing out their pamphlets which directly encouraged extremism, and USA considered the Mujahedeen to be the equivalent of our "founding fathers", along with NASA dedicating a launch to them -- so clearly that's not the case, nor is it for humanitarian reasons, considering that most of the nation here in the US is in poverty, to an extent where seeing couples sleep in the streets is no longer surprising. With that being said, Africa needs more help than a nation like Afghanistan who is sitting on a trillion dollar worth of natural resources. So clearly, it happens to be strategic reasons, since a strong military presence in Afghanistan does wonders for the US foreign policy; it keeps the Banana republic of Pakistan in check, and the so-called "rogue" state Iran on their tippy toes. Japan provides strategic interests on a different scale, but if you look at the world map -- for any empire to succeed they have to have Afghanistan as their "ally", given how it's a breakthrough region with many regional powers hungry for power. I also know your wise enough to know that not a single Afghan was involved in 9/11, and the Taliban clearly demanded for evidence, something we felt insulted by since how dare a rag-tag insurgency ask us, the mighty Americans, for evidence! In short, the US is not nuts for spending a trillion dollars, if Japan or Germany already served their interests.

About the military hardware, could you elaborate? Are you implying that what he told me is not true?


Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

-Ferishta, 1560–1620
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Default 07-02-2012, 06:16 PM

Cowards.


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Default 07-02-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin Khan View Post
Hi Tor Gul,

I didn't quite understand your rebuttal. Do you really think we went to Afghanistan to wipe out the "terrorists"? Remind you, University of Nebraska were printing out their pamphlets which directly encouraged extremism, and we considered the Mujahedeen to be the equivalent of our "founding fathers", along with NASA dedicating a launch to them -- so clearly that's not the case, nor is it for humanitarian reasons, considering that most of the nation here in the US is in poverty, to an extent where seeing couples sleep in the streets is no longer surprising. With that being said, Africa needs more help than a nation like Afghanistan who is sitting on a trillion dollar worth of natural resources. So clearly, it happens to be strategic reasons, since a strong military presence in Afghanistan does wonders for the US foreign policy; it keeps the Banana republic of Pakistan in check, and the so-called "rogue" state Iran on their tippy toes. Japan provides strategic interests on a different scale, but if you look at the world map -- for any empire to succeed they have to have Afghanistan as their "ally", given how it's a breakthrough region with many regional powers hungry for power. I also know your wise enough to know that not a single Afghan was involved in 9/11, and the Taliban clearly demanded for evidence, something we felt insulted by since how dare a rag-tag insurgency ask us, the mighty Americans, for evidence! In short, the US is not nuts for spending a trillion dollars, if Japan or Germany already served their interests.

About the military hardware, could you elaborate? Are you implying that what he told me is not true?
I'm saying the USA didn't need to stay 10+ year to deal w/ Al Qaida terrorists. Nor do they need to be there for China's "benefit." Neither Iran nor Pakistan have the muscle to for the USA to NEED to have a large ground presence. The presence is primarily about business. LOTS of politicians & their freinds in industry are making money from our troops being there. ALL w/o accomplishing anything truly useful for the USA.
That trillion dollars worth of mineral resources is the the real reason we're still there and still buying freinds in Afghan politics. none of the other stated objectives really matter. If we really cared about humanitarian matters, why didn't we stop the Rwandan genocide, or bomb india/thailand for their child sex slavery? Let me make clear, I do not believe there is some huge conspiracy. What i do believe, is that the accumulated actions of industry & politicians looking out for their own bank accounts far outweighs any altruistic propaganda that may be forward as reasons for being there.
And yes he lied about the military hardware or he believed that nonsense when someone else told him. It will absolutely be somewhat inferior to what we ourselves use so that if we have to face it in battle we'll win. But putting selfdestruct devices or programs in it would cause unintended failures that would result in losing that business. There are enough failures in the "best" made products, let alone trying to put in an undetectable, undeactivatable self destruct device or program.

I am well aware the 9/11 terrorists were MOSTLY Saudi Arabs and that Afghanan were busy w/ their own problems.
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Default 07-06-2012, 06:09 PM

Since when did the Afghan women become so independent in making such decisions and embarking on such journeys by their own? The media is giving a hype to a rare case that might have been happened - may be once.


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Default 07-06-2012, 06:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Yasmeenaah View Post
Afghan women leave the country in fear of Taliban return

The threat of a curtailment of women's rights prompts many to quit before the 2014 handover

A brain drain of bright young women is already taking place in Afghanistan before the 2014 handover that many fear will mean a reversal of advances in women's rights.
the whole policy of trying to create a legitimate afghan government from western afghans was flawed from the beginning. Think about it. The vast majority will have no loyalty to a country that they know they wont have any future in or thier children future in. Most of those people will make as much money as possible and then leave when they are rich and fat and live comfortable lives in the west. It is the most logical thing to do.

The only people that are going to care about afghanistans future are the local people themselves because they know their future depends on it. There are no womens rights in afghanistan today. you have rights if you can bribe your way to having rights. A murderer has the right to go free if he can bribe his way out of it. That is how rights are distributed in afghanistan today.
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Default 07-06-2012, 06:53 PM

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Originally Posted by khushal View Post
the whole policy of trying to create a legitimate afghan government from western afghans was flawed from the beginning. Think about it. The vast majority will have no loyalty to a country that they know they wont have any future in or thier children future in. Most of those people will make as much money as possible and then leave when they are rich and fat and live comfortable lives in the west. It is the most logical thing to do.

The only people that are going to care about afghanistans future are the local people themselves because they know their future depends on it. There are no womens rights in afghanistan today. you have rights if you can bribe your way to having rights. A murderer has the right to go free if he can bribe his way out of it. That is how rights are distributed in afghanistan today.
Well put. There are some Afghans in the west, and the only thing Afghan about them is their last name.


Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

-Ferishta, 1560–1620
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Default 07-06-2012, 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Al Hanif View Post
Muslim Afghans lost their dignity.

Not because they are poor or because they are uneducated.

They lost their dignity the very moment they let other non-muslim non-afghan people minding their own business.

I saw many things in my life and I remember some images that stuck into my mind forever. It was during Burmese War if I remember well.

There was American soldiers throwing food, water and other aid items from the top of their truck while driving on the road and there was many people picking up what was on the ground and running behind the truck to grab something. Men, Women, Kids, Eldery people, Everyone. Everyone was running behind the truck to grab something. Everyone... except the Buddhist Monks. They were here, on the road, but they were walking, not running. They did not care about these American soldiers and their food and their water. They were here, standing, walking, living their lives, as if nothing happened, in one of those moments that Hollywood could have never caught on tape.

They might have been dying of hunger, dying of thirst, but at least they were the only ones who kept their dignity.
Lol, I don't mean sound to arrogant, but a Morrocon is the last person to lecture an Afghan on dignity, or self-respect. Let's just say Moroccon night-life is very popular and preferred here in the west. Remember what they say, clean up your own house before you judge others.


Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

-Ferishta, 1560–1620
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Default 07-07-2012, 12:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Admin Khan View Post
Lol, I don't mean sound to arrogant, but a Morrocon is the last person to lecture an Afghan on dignity, or self-respect. Let's just say Moroccon night-life is very popular and preferred here in the west. Remember what they say, clean up your own house before you judge others.
exactly, I don't hate moroccans but Moroccans should decolonize themselves from French culture then tell us what to do.
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Default 07-07-2012, 12:32 AM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
exactly, I don't hate moroccans but Moroccans should decolonize themselves from French culture then tell us what to do.
The Moroccons that I've met remind me of African-Americans. They have commonalities. Let's see, they are completely stripped of their identity, culture, history(because of French colonization)and prefer to speak French over Arabic. Again, I hate to say this, and I have deep respect for innocent Moroccons but please fix your house before you judge a nation that has taught every aggressor a lesson they have never forgotten. The same people that ruled Morocco, were trying to find out ways to leave due to the fierce resistance of Afghans.

Anyways, when I say fix your house, this is what I mean.
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi.../28/feature-01

Of course Afghanistan has problems, but let's hear it from someone else, not a Moroccon. National dignity and Morocco are oxymorons. Do some research on Afghanistan, and you'll find out what dignity, loyalty and respect means.


Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

-Ferishta, 1560–1620
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Default 07-07-2012, 01:00 AM

Its amazing how we have so many foreign experts on afghanistan.
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