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davidkross
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Default Just starting - 12-26-2010, 05:46 PM

as-salaamu' alaykum - just learned I'll be heading over to Afghanistan in a few months. I would love to learn as much as I can about the history and culture of the region. I am just nibbling around with some language programs...this would be my first stab at a second language (Pashto). Afghanistan is actually in the curriculum I teach, but due to pacing guides and the fact that we have to cover all of Asia, Africa and the Pacific, all in one academic year, we (I) haven't really spent too much time studying the region. But...how things change when you are about to spend a year or so in a place.

I am more inclined to spend some light chatting with Afghans...not so much in need of a list of resources to study in-depth...although, I wouldn't turn down anything, because I want to learn as much as I can.

I've been surfing around a bit, just perusing some of the threads...I hope to stay away from any hating, denouncing or stereotyping. Obviously controversy and strife are a part of the region...and I am definately going to be a component of that mix, but I trully am just trying to learn about people...because, in the end, that's what we really are.

I look forward to meeting you. kha woraz walary!
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Default 12-26-2010, 05:50 PM

Welcome David, so I assume you teach high school? Feel free to ask what you want.


Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."

The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

-Ferishta, 1560–1620
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kakargirl
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Default 12-26-2010, 05:57 PM

wa laikum salam david , il be happy to help with the afghan culture .
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kakargirl
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Default 12-26-2010, 07:49 PM

Thank you so much david thats amazing i did robert frost for my G C S E S i also did john steinbeck too another brilliant poet excellent stuff both poets have written i know the poem your talking about the road not taken amazing poem i wrote a assigment on it when i was 14.

Last edited by kakargirl; 12-26-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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graveyardofempires
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Default 12-26-2010, 11:56 PM

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Originally Posted by davidkross View Post
Admin Khan - Actually middle school (7th grade Social Studies). Ok, so first question, and I think it may be rather obvious, but I'll ask it anyway. I'm taking it that blood is much thicker than water in the Pashtun culture. More specifically, would it be correct to say that there is no real allegiance to Afganistan as a nation, rather to one's own culture or tribal roots?

This of course would be different for us Americans. I am scottish/Irish/and German, but hold no loyalty toward that bloodline. We may have regional or even state sentiments, but in the end, no matter our family tree, we would claim to be an American.

This could obviously cause a direct fault in our foreign polcy, especially when it comes to nation building. It seems, we think everone is like us and would gladly become a proud nation, rather than a proud culture. I think the history of colonialism could provide lessons here. Look at Africa...the modern countries have borders (created by Europeans) which throw different ethnic groups into the same political entity. This of course casues conflict.

Is this going to be the same in Afghanistan. Are we pushing a nation on people who simply do not want it?
no it is not that way,people feel more attached to their city and the tribal thing more personal and family bound.

all the people are loyal to Afghanistan as the Great undefeated king(emperor) Ahmad Shah Durrani said :

"By blood, we are immersed in love of you.
The youth lose their heads for your sake. I come to you and my heart finds rest.
Away from you, grief clings to my heart like a snake. I forget the throne of Delhi
when I remember the mountain tops of my Afghan land.
If I must choose between the world and you,
I shall not hesitate to claim your barren deserts as my own"

there you go

the theory of pashtuns not accepting Afghanistan as their nation is false
pashtuns not accepting pakistan is not false since the british drew a line between their hartland.


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Default 12-27-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkross View Post
Admin Khan - Actually middle school (7th grade Social Studies). Ok, so first question, and I think it may be rather obvious, but I'll ask it anyway. I'm taking it that blood is much thicker than water in the Pashtun culture. More specifically, would it be correct to say that there is no real allegiance to Afganistan as a nation, rather to one's own culture or tribal roots?

This of course would be different for us Americans. I am scottish/Irish/and German, but hold no loyalty toward that bloodline. We may have regional or even state sentiments, but in the end, no matter our family tree, we would claim to be an American.

This could obviously cause a direct fault in our foreign polcy, especially when it comes to nation building. It seems, we think everone is like us and would gladly become a proud nation, rather than a proud culture. I think the history of colonialism could provide lessons here. Look at Africa...the modern countries have borders (created by Europeans) which throw different ethnic groups into the same political entity. This of course casues conflict.

Is this going to be the same in Afghanistan. Are we pushing a nation on people who simply do not want it?
Nation building with bombs LOL

no you are not pushing anything on Afghanistan an dAfghanistan has always been an independent nation and never been colonised.

i think americans are too naive and think the whole world is america or the whole world wants to be like america which is not the case.
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Default 12-27-2010, 01:29 PM

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Originally Posted by davidkross View Post
No doubt..we aren't the most humblest of people. Can't argue with that. And, no doubt, we are very egocentric...in general, but there are a good many of us that realize we are just folks... as you are, as anybody is..just folks.

It does give me a better feeling to think that Afghans are proud of their country. Maybe I won't feel so pushy if in the end Afghanistan comes out better off. I hope for it!!
Are you going their to teach afghan school children?
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Default 12-27-2010, 02:59 PM

Welcome David.
I would be glad if I could help you in any way possible.
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kakargirl
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Default 12-27-2010, 06:47 PM

well david your making a great effort i understand the question you asked above is alot deeper and needs a deeper answer as its the main question and its more deeper than the answer you got will do my best to answer it , but do wish more people thought like you.

Last edited by kakargirl; 12-27-2010 at 09:01 PM.
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Default 12-27-2010, 08:47 PM

Dear David (or Da-ood as we say in Afghanistan)

Welcome and pa khaair raghlaay,

As a fellow American, and as an ardent American firster, I can only hope that they send you back as fast as they send you there. It is tragic that our ruling elites, democrats and republicans alike, are sending America's soldier-children and treasure into harm's way to sustain the unsustainable. I hope your wife and kids recognize the David Kross that comes back as exactly the same as the one that left. As a doctor in fellowship training, a part of my work takes me to the local VA to treat vets. I see them returning in the droves with shrapnel in their heads and depression that borders on suicidal at higher rates than any generation of warriors before it. They went from being small town boys that went to the local football game and church on Sundays, to having to kill in a war that does not benefit our national security and disenfrachises the multitides in ways that Washington and Adams would have been horrified with.

It is all the more tragic that congressman of both parties, with little loyalty to the America that the founders sought to build, are sending you there to nation build and sustain an oligarchial and meritless leader that has run the most phenomenally corrupt government in Afghanistan's history. To add unfathomable shame to tragedy, they are sending the hard earned money that the parents of your 7th graders made, to build houses in Dubai for men that were without merit or accomplishment here in the US, so that they can be governors and "khans" in the new and "free" Afghanistan. The greatest military with the most professional training and the most vast arsenal ever incepted is being utilized to do construction (or pay contractors to do it poorly) work and build swimming pools for mass murderers instead of doing what it does best, which is inflict severe punishment on America's adversaries.

While Americans are having to make the hard choices of whether to delay college by a few years so that they can help their double job working parents pay the rent, the sons and daughters of installed ministers are having their educations paid for by the parents of your 7th graders to attend American Universities. A kid in Tennessee will have to wait his turn to be admitted to Georgetown while Yama Karzai takes up a spot there to do poorly academically but still somehow be installed as a director of the Afghan Intelligence Services.

David, do be wary of that other government across the border as well. Its generals know that their loathsome and corrupt order is on life support in the form of, once again, hard earned American dollars. Therefore, it boggs you down in an unwinnable war of attrition to make sure and milk every last dollar out of your country. Their brigadiere generals will certainly never invite you over to the fabulous Islamabad bungalow that they build with your American treasure while an American family loses their home (worth three times less). They, like Yama, will make sure to send their kids to Harvard and Yale so that they can learn to sustain hegemony and feudalism in ways only the ivy leagues can teach.

There is depthless sorrow that we Americans ought to feel while we live in the knowledge of the fact that we are sending you to ensure that Baliwal "Bollywood" Bhutto remains in the wings, living off our nations coffers and is being groomed to further our involvement in his neighborhood to the point of our economic bankruptcy. All the while, Mir Wais Karzai is being groomed in the Arg Palace, once again with American dollars, to become his father's equal in the standards and weights of immeasurable corruption. We Americans used to accomplish things like sending men to the moon, now we accomplish sustaining multi-generational corruption in the name of national security.

David, I recommend this article by your brave comrade, decorated Marine Captain Matthew Hoh, a high-level official that killed America's enemies with brutal efficiency:

http://www.thenation.com/article/157...-insider-talks

and I leave with the quotes of Washington to keep close to your heart:

"
My ardent desire is, and my aim has been... to comply strictly with all our engagements foreign and domestic; but to keep the U States free from political connections with every other Country. To see that they may be independent of all, and under the influence of none. In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home."

"
My policy has been, and will continue to be, while I have the honor to remain in the administration of the government, to be upon friendly terms with, but independent of, all the nations of the earth. To share in the broils of none. To fulfill our own engagements. To supply the wants, and be carriers for them all: Being thoroughly convinced that it is our policy and interest to do so."
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