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Default Return of Ancient Prophets - 11-15-2017, 06:56 PM

نحمده ونصلى ونسلم على رسوله الكريم
The doctrine of the second coming of Jesus Christ, established in authentic Ahadith but not apparent in the text of the Holy Qur’an itself, has been a cause of controversy. At face value, this idea that an ancient Israelite Prophet who lived two millennia ago will drop down from the Heavens to lead the Muslim nation contradicts a fundamental idea in Islam – the Finality of Muhammad’s Prophethood (peace be upon him). How can Prophet Muhammad be the Last Prophet after whom there is no other Prophet to come while at the same time the Prophet Jesus is eagerly expected to return many centuries after Prophet Muhammad passed away from this world?
The standard reply to this dilemma is that Jesus will not come back with a new revelation or message, but rather, only to follow the path of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and judge according to the Muhammadan Shari’a, not the Gospel.

Yet this philosophical reconciliation of two apparently contradictory beliefs results in the opening of the door, at least in theory, for the emergence of such “prophets” from the Umma itself who are not Law-bearing Prophets independent of Prophet Muhammad’s authority, but in fact permanently subject to his Shari’a. But they may be described as Prophets as Jesus undoubtedly will be upon his second coming, and perhaps possessing “prophetic” characteristics so long as they are not abrogating or defying the Muhammadan Shari’a.

The Sufis have developed, within their narrative, the idea of righteous men within the Umma attaining some of the characteristics of Nubuwwa and being described as “Prophets”, at least figuratively, or by way of reflecting the Prophethood of Muhammad within themselves, a concept known as Fana Fil Rasul. The idea that the prophecy of the second coming of Christ will be fulfilled in this way, i.e., a person from within the Umma who, though not technically the actual Jesus of Nazareth of 2,000 years ago, but being a repository of Jesus’s persona, would certainly harmonize the two apparently opposing ideas (1) Finality of Muhammad’s Prophethood (2) Return of Prophet Jesus

It may be asked on what concrete basis should the belief in the second coming of Jesus be interpreted as meaning the advent of a figure from within the Umma who merely resembles in persona and purpose the original Jesus of 2,000 years ago. But there does seem to be a precedent for the idea of prophecies about the return of an ancient prophet being fulfilled by the advent of a new Prophet, born in the ordinary way.

Take for example the Biblical prophecy of the return of the ancient Prophet Elijah: “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes” (Malachi 4:5-6). Based on this text, Jews developed the idea that the ancient prophet Elijah, who apparently was raised up to Heaven alive on a chariot of fire, would descend from Heaven to herald the advent of the Jewish Messiah.

Now when Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be that Messiah, the Jewish divines naturally asked him about the prophecy of Elijah’s return, to which Jesus responded by mentioning his cousin John the Baptist “he is Elijah who is to come”.

John the Baptist was not literally Elijah. He did not drop out of the clouds, but was born the natural way, raised up among his people, and started his ministry claiming to be a Prophet. But Jesus declared that John the Baptist had come “in the spirit and power of Elijah”.

Likewise, the Christian and Islamic prophecy of the return of Christ to this world can be understood in the same light as the ancient prophecy of Elijah’s return, not meant to be taken literally, but pointing to the appearance of a new Prophet who comes in the “spirit and power” of the old Jesus of Nazareth.
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Default 11-15-2017, 07:20 PM

نحمده ونصلى ونسلم على رسوله الكريم
When we examine this idea of Khatam-an-Nubuwwa or ‘finality of Prophethood’ we see that its rational purpose is to ensure really the finality of the Religion Islam in its perfect form, perfected through the agency of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In other words, the completion and finality of the Laws and imperatives of Islam, as well as its practice and modes of worship. It’s objective does not appear to be the cutting off of divine inspiration and the silsila of communication between Heaven and man through the agency of ‘inspired’ persons (whether described as oracles, prophets, seers, etc.)
The Sufis seem to have truly understood this nuance when reflecting on the doctrine of ‘Finality’. They knew that if it precluded the continuation of divine inspiration (Ilham and Kashaf), the idea that is so central to Sufism, such a ‘Finality’ would in fact be a shortcoming and an internal flaw within the structure of Islam. After all, divine inspiration from Heaven is the pre-eminent spiritual experience. Literally thousands of men experienced it in the previous dispensations, how then could the best of nations, the Umma of Muhammad, be denied the gift of divine inspiration?
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Default 11-15-2017, 07:34 PM

As far as the second coming of Jesus is concerned, another reason to interpret it in light of what I have explained in the OP is the apparent meaning of Verses in the Holy Qur’an which speak of Jesus’s death: “When Allah said: ‘O Eisaa, verily I shall cause you to die and exalt you to Myself…” (Sura 3: 55), “I (Jesus) did not say unto them except what You (Allah) commanded me, to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them. But when you caused me to die, You (remained) as the Watcher over them.” (Sura 5: 117) “And Muhammad is not but a Messenger. The Messengers before him passed away (died) (Sura 3: 144)”, “The Messiah son of Mary was not but a Messenger. The Messengers before him passed away (died), and his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food.” (Sura 5: 75)

These and other Verses of the Holy Qur’an point to the apparent death of Jesus. There isn’t a single Verse that manifestly declares Jesus as being alive and not having died in his own time. Traditional Sunni Muslims have presumed that Jesus must be alive and that somehow he was raised up to Heaven in his earthly body because of the prophecy in the Hadith about his second coming. But as I explained in the OP, the idea of the second coming of a Prophet should be understood as a prophecy using the same language as older prophecies but in reality pointing to the coming of someone else who has the persona of the ancient Prophet that has been named.
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Default 11-15-2017, 08:41 PM

Oh hey look, filthy Qadiani propaganda coming from someone who adamantly insists he isn't a Qadiani.

I think the mods should ban this guy if he's going to spread Qadiani falsehood under the guise of "Panjpiri" or whatever he claims to be.
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Default 11-15-2017, 09:03 PM

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Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
Oh hey look, filthy Qadiani propaganda coming from someone who adamantly insists he isn't a Qadiani.

I think the mods should ban this guy if he's going to spread Qadiani falsehood under the guise of "Panjpiri" or whatever he claims to be.
Typical uncouth Pathan. Ban what you can't understand. Mislabel in order to score points. Personal attack in order to avoid the content of the message.
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Default 11-15-2017, 09:52 PM

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Typical uncouth Pathan. Ban what you can't understand. Mislabel in order to score points. Personal attack in order to avoid the content of the message.
Uncouth? That's rich coming from a person whose ethnicity is known to shamelessly fart in public.

You're spewing Qadiani propaganda, and even using Qadiani Quran translations.

The jig is up. You're a Qadiani who pretends he isn't, just like your filthy loser of a false prophet was a Punjabi who pretended he wasn't.

This is a Pashtun forum, not a "spread your heretical Indic religion" forum. Qadianis are the enemies of Pashtuns, both by religion and by nationality. You don't belong here.

Last edited by maneatinglizard; 11-15-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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Default 11-15-2017, 10:07 PM

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You're spewing Qadiani propaganda, and even using Qadiani Quran translations.
Putting aside your other nonsensical and immaterial ramblings, this is basically the only argument you have to offer. Translating إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ "I shall cause you to die" is a "Qadiani" translation is it?

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me" (this is Asad's translation, Asad was not a Qadiani, he was a Jewish convert to Islam)

Recall what time Allah said: O 'Isa! verily I shall make thee die, and am lifting thee to myself (this is Daryabadi's translation. Daryabadi was a Sunni Muslim)

God said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me (Talal Itani's translation)

More importantly, I will prove that the Prophet's own companion, Abdullah b. Abbas (Radi Allahu anhu) interpreted إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ to mean "I shall cause you to die"

عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَلْحَةَ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ ، " قَوْلُهُ : إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ سورة آل عمران آية 55 , يقول : " إِنِّي مُمِيتُكَ
(Tafsir Ibn Abi Hatim: Surat Aali Imran)

Imam Bukhari has also cited this saying of Ibn Abbas (R.A) in his al-Jami al-Sahih in Mu'allaq form.

Was Ibn Abbas (R.A) a "Qadiani" for translating Mutawaffeeka as Mumeetuka?
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Default 11-15-2017, 10:23 PM

Translation of Sura 5:117

"And so long as I dwelt with them I was witness over their actions. And after my life had been done, You were their keeper" (Ahmed Ali's translation)

"And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper" (Asad's translation)

"and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them" (Shakir's translation)

More importantly, the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم himself used the Quraanic phrase فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي "when you caused me to die" in reference to himself when he addresses Allah on Judgment Day about the apostates.

It is mentioned in authentic Hadith of Bukhari sharif that the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) will see men from his Umma being dragged to hell by the Angels. He will appeal for them because he recognizes them as being among his Umma, but it will be said to him "You do not know what they did after you", to which the Prophet (peace be upon him) will say:

فَأَقُولُ : كَمَا قَالَ الْعَبْدُ الصَّالِحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَكُنْتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنْتَ أَنْتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنْتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

"So I shall say as the righteous servant, Jesus sonof Mary, "and I was among them a witness as long as I was among them, but when you caused me to die, You were Watcher over them"

This Hadith proves that Falammaa Tawaffaytanee means "When you caused me to die", because obviously the Prophet (peace be upon him) died and was not raised up to Heaven in his physical body alive.
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Default 11-16-2017, 05:09 AM

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Typical uncouth Pathan. Ban what you can't understand. Mislabel in order to score points. Personal attack in order to avoid the content of the message.
Drop the munafiqat and deception.......You are clearly doing Tabligh of Qadianism in this thread yet you are claiming that you are not a Qadiani. If you accept that you are a Qadiani (or Ahmadi as you people call yourselves) then i have no issues with you and your Qadianist posts. If you people keep on doing shady and deceptive tabligh of your faith like this, it will bode ill for you community.
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Default 11-16-2017, 05:49 AM

I am getting some real Qadiani vibes from this guy this time!!
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