World's Largest Online Pashtun Community

Go Back   "Pull out your swords and slay anyone that says Pashtun and Afghan are not one! Arabs know this and so do Romans: Afghans are Pashtuns, Pashtuns are Afghans!" -Khushal Khattak > >
Reload this Page Debate: Should Muslim countries have a state sanctioned version of Islam?
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
(#11)
Old
Khostai Khostai is offline
PF senior
Khostai is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 4,179
Thanks: 369
Thanked 1,108 Times in 906 Posts
My Mood: Aggressive
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Default 09-23-2015, 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
So are you saying in the past, When there were many competing schools of thought in Baghdad, eventhough it was a Khilafah, in essence it was secular?

Marvelous.
In essence they were.
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
Brown Skinned Savage Brown Skinned Savage is offline
BANNED
Brown Skinned Savage is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 371
Thanked 246 Times in 206 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default 09-23-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamlawar Khurasani View Post
So are you saying in the past, When there were many competing schools of thought in Baghdad, eventhough it was a Khilafah, in essence it was secular?

Marvelous.

Also as I was alluding to early Current secular Egypt is NOT pluralistic whatsoever; the Junta is trying to manufacture their own "brand" of Islam
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
Brown Skinned Savage Brown Skinned Savage is offline
BANNED
Brown Skinned Savage is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 371
Thanked 246 Times in 206 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default 09-23-2015, 10:39 AM

If Khilafah Al Abbasiyah was in "essence" secular then the United States is in "essence" a theocracy.
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
Brown Skinned Savage Brown Skinned Savage is offline
BANNED
Brown Skinned Savage is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 1,435
Thanks: 371
Thanked 246 Times in 206 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default 09-23-2015, 07:02 PM

Hadn't had a chance to give my full thoughts on this but I will try to now.

It's very pertinent that Shamlawar had made reference to the Plurality of Baghdad during the Abbasid era.

One of the reasons I had adopted the Mu'tazili was because that at least in Principle, the Mu'tazili were an unbiased party when it came to the ideological rife between sects. Individual Mu'tazili or Mutazili Institutions were not guilty of their own shortcomings when it comes to zealotry and bias, but rather that the Mu'tazilah Framework stressed on principles of Rationality & Reason which provide a more effective tool to make sound conclusions and a platform for refined intellectual discourse.

But what is "Reason"? What does it mean to be "Rational"? In essence, Rationality is the ability to use information to model situations and from there draw conclusions. Mu'tazili made conclusions made on the information they had available, the information and conclusions that they made were not always correct; but as we are able to acquire more information; through greater observation and experimentation, we acquire a greater degree of accuracy.

It's not the creed of Mu'tazilah that needs to be focused here, because if Mu'tazilah were defined by their pirnciples the Modern Mu'tazilli would have a dramatically different set of assessments than their predecessors; but rather the essence behind their approach. Even the word "Mu'tazilah" is not important; it's just a term related to a concept.

It's the concept which allows different ideas to be examined to compare information and model conclusions which is the driving force. This is what any political authority must endorse, not doctrine or ideology.

The problem with Secularism is that it is ideological, and this problem mires current Muslim-"states" as well. But A State, political authority or governing body should only do what it can to facilitate evidence and model hypothesis based on evidence. Everything else should be left to the merit of reason.
Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
randolph85's Avatar
randolph85 randolph85 is offline
PF senior
randolph85 is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Posts: 7,728
Thanks: 891
Thanked 2,719 Times in 2,012 Posts
My Mood: Blah
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default 09-23-2015, 09:37 PM

I do agree with liberalism in respects to the acceptance of the practice of the generally accepted schools of thought but then thorny issues arise regarding extremist theology, both conservative and liberal. When it gets to the point where a conservative extremist on one end starts insulting the prophets or a liberal extremist on the other starts doing the same thing, when does the state step in and put an end to it and on what basis of fiqh do they do it?

I don't know much about this golden age of Islam when differing opinions were allowed to flourish but I assume, and correct me if I am wrong, that there was not as much a tendency to stray from the book like this is today with all these movements and breakaway groups.


There are people today who think that admitting Godís absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godís greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

Sayyid Qutb
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
Karachi Karachi is offline
BANNED
Karachi is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 7,921
Thanks: 353
Thanked 1,581 Times in 1,189 Posts
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default 09-23-2015, 10:44 PM

The problems with muslims is that most are uneducated jahils, so even if they had different schools in a state side by side, who is to say they won't fight and start killing each other. I think the biggest thing muslims need is security and protection from the state, so at least people will be allowed to speak whatever they want
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
countries, debate, islam, muslim, sanctioned, state, version

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




History of Pashtuns| Learn Pashto Online| Afghan Wiki| TheHujra.com| Pukhtoogle| Afghan MP3| Khyber.org| Pukhto.net| Tor_Khan's blog| Abdul Rahman Karim's blog| Voices of the Pashtun land| Pashto TV

Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
No part of this site may be copied without permission of the administration. The views, posts, opinions and threads expressed by members of the community here are not necessarily those of the staff and management of Pashtun Forums.