Lets look at this objectively and in the light of history. In accuracies only exacerbate and make conflict worse. Take for instance the consistent refrain that the US economy is on the verge of collapse and that its fire power is blunt. Quiet frankly, that is absurd. The US economy is massive. It certainly can recieve hits... but US techological prowess is still so superior that Chinese military men admit that a full head on confrontation with the US would devastate China.

I Think your commentary about Mr. Bin Ladin is out of touch with reality. If his own detractors, within the CIA recognized his insurgency capability, to the point where the CIA commented on his 1) Piety (per Scheuer's Imperial Hubris) 2) Recognized battlefield experience (per Ralph Peters) and 3) Success in mounting a 3 pronged insurgency that forces the US to spread itself thin and devote inordinate economic expenses to fighting a war of its own making... then your definition of zero indicates that you hardly understand the conflict at hand.

Regarding shacking up with his wives: Che Geuvara also had his lover with him in his initial struggles... this is merely your opinion. Per the stunning documentary by Paul Refsdahl, many Taliban commanders in the hills, e.g. Mullah Dauran have their wives and children with them.

Regarding your mansion comments, once again its another myth. The picture of the room he was killed in does not show a luxury Sealy Serta mattress:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nd-MONTHS.html

Here Central Intelligence says: "You've got to give him credit for his tradecraft."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Militar...A-s-safe-house

What did they mean? They meant that he recognized something that Dr. Barkawai of Cambridge stated best to answer your idealistic commentary:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...424785830.html

"When those who are weak in conventional military terms seek to fight the strong, they often do so through unconventional tactics and ruses. To do otherwise is to be stupid and risk being mown down by superior firepower."

It is rather amusing that neocons like Dr. Victor David Hanson can observe what our elitist pedigreed brethren (who fled Afghanistan in its time of need) cannot (or will not?):

"As Victor Davis Hanson comments, "we in the West call the few casualties we suffer from terrorism and surprise 'cowardly', the frightful losses we inflict through open and direct assault 'fair'.""

By your standards, General Petreaus, who has acknowledged the roots of worldwide terrorism rest in the United States's global interventionist policies,ought to resign or turn himself over to the US courts.

It would be equally absurd for Bin Ladin to have "turned himself" over to the same people he was leading an insurgency against.

There were two groups of Elites in the time of the American Revolution: Benedict Arnold's faction and the Franklin/Washington faction. The royalists were constantly lamenting why the American insurgents were creating a situation into which the British would enter and devastate the country side. They also referred to the American Continental Army as vegabonds and as an affront to civility. Nonetheless, Washington and his cadre of thinkers understood that this would be a criticism leveled against them. While he and his regulars fought open combat, he clearly strategized with the American guerillas, and brutal techniques such as scalping soldiers were utilized. Here is a commentary regarding how these loyalists (the equivalents of the Afghan upper class emigres that pollute the diaspora and did nothing for their people) viewed their contemporaries fighting the British

"Then through allowing rebels to occupy a hill overlooking Boston harbor they were forced to vacate the city, but only about 25% of the Loyalists were able to cram onto those few ships available to escape the inevitable rebel savagery. This horrible situation was a servere blow to Loyalist morale."

http://www.redcoat.me.uk/Rev-War.htm

The general attempt made by the Pakistani and the Afghan effeminite elites against the Islamist Insurgency has been:

1) Why dont they take out the Saudis first instead of bringing their war to Afghanistan

Answer: They tried and were massacred. Watch Al Jazeera's documentary on the deceased individual in question to recognize that this was repeatedly attempted. The final conclusion of the involved parties was that American firepower backed up that dictatorship and that it had to be dealt with in order to loosen the grip of the invisible hand that held up the Karzai of Arabia and the Karzai of Egypt and the Karzai of Libya.

2) Take a look at Egypt... its now a flourishing republic in the works without the need to mount an insurgency

Wrong. The Egyptians and the Syrians are fast realizing that protests and other measures have not worked adequately. Take a look at the recollections occuring in Tahrir square.

The end result of all of this my friend Yaggi?

1) Recognize reality. This war was brought to the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan by two groups of people that ought to be held responsible: Inept elites who invited multiple powers in to the region (or served their respective interests)

2) Their sustained interventionalism created the extremely effective insurgent leadership capability in the personage of Mr. Bin Ladin.

3) The commoners on both sides of the border never stood a chance when the Karzais, Achekzais, Muhammadzais, United Front sell outs, Military elites etc decided that they, like their Iraqi counterparts, would hoist something foreign and unrepresentative onto the backs of the people. Mazerah, Shahbaz, Graveyard, and the rural folks of both Afghanistan and Pakistan had nothing to do with wanting anyone to be bombed. Quiet the contrary, just as their post Shah Iranian counterparts create a false narrative about a Camelot Court held in Tehran, where Pehlavi was some sort of King Arthur in their heads... the effeminte elites of Afghanistan that fled in teh face of the Russian juggernaut spins the same narrative about idylls of the King. Unfortunately, the pakistani elite has joined the chorus of voices, denigrating the common man as he joins an insurgency as his way to break this yolk.

4) Just as the American insurgents had their view align with France's interests, but had in now way signed on to be ruled by France... there is absolutely no proof that Mullah Omar or any of his men approved Afghanistan becoming another province of a greater Pakistan. Rather, his view on the Durand line, which was to not recognize it, worried Islamabad.

Remember, Yaggi, facts speak louder than dreams.

we use spacail word for you,,kabalai,,not pashtun.
It is interesting a parsiban kabalai teaching us pashtunwali.
what language do you speak ?
pakistan along with the remain of iranains(parsibans and persanised kabaliyans) will disappear from the world by the creation of pure pashtun state pashtunistan.
i wonder where these ,,half breed,,confused people will go.
Iran is taking over the whole of awghanistan with its parsi and culture while punjabi dominated govt of pakistan use islam and making fool of these kabulis.
Compare the pashtunkhwa pashtuns with kabalyans its a joke.
The kabalyaans are still in the camps of pakistan and iran while pashtuns at least live much better life then them.
Since pashtunkhwa was sold by a parsiban abdurahman therefore persanied kabulis are not welcome to our holy land.
It is us given you shelter punjabis will be happy if we kick you out of our land but our gerat is not dead as yours.
We have tested your awghanyath in 1930s when our elders cross into your country you looted them and forced them back.
why should we join parsibanistan?
every pashtun visit your country is called pakistani so first of clean your own mess.
what your parsibanistan dead for pashtuns?
why pashtuns live in bad condition then parsibans/iranis?
how many parsibuns lives in camp?
you yourself is slave .
your bab e milat is masood not ahmad shah check it out.
pakistan and afghanistan are both worst for pashtuns and holy pashtu.
The only way you can unite with us to support pashtunistan and get rid of irantub.
Your entire leadership including your baba masood once a paid isi servants.
first of all stop trading on punjabi owned karachi port karachi,stop the use of border crossing of pashtunkhwa,do,nt eat punjabi malak flour wheat,punjabi basmati rice.
kicking your keyboard and abusing pashtuns will not help you at all.
if you are real afghani defend your country against all enemies.


all of the above we know who you are and why you calling names to pashtunkhwa pashtuns.
we also know pf ,s majority members from afghanistan are persains not pashtuns so you are exposed already.

he was your guest later moved by ,,isi,, with help of you kablyaans to abot abad.
i wonder why you kabalai maajar calling names to pashtuns.it is us keeping pashtun identity alive.you are history now.many of you use only awghani not pashtuns.we call you kabalai not pakhtuns.
pakistan is kicking you hard and if you kablis can why do,nt you fight them?
whats the point of calling names to pashtuns.
pashtuns are not in power in pakistan so there is no point you tajik blame us.
you are scared that if US leave you tajiks will lose control over afghanistan.
why do,nt you afghanis unite and defedn your country?
why your leadership always ready for sale.
you have sold your country to britishes,russains,pakistan,iran and now to the west.
you should be ashamed of your history and leadership.
as far as laden and pakistan so yea he was the guest of ,,isi,,
dose the US has any courage to attack pakistan for that?
no,cus it was well plan by both ,,isi,,and cia.
they use his name to get into this region and they did.afghanistan was not even a country but just lawless land so they choose that.
since punjabis are well known chaplos and servanst like you tajiks so they helped and allow them to do whatever they like.
i wonder where was afghani gerat when mushraf an indain pointed finger to afghanistan for sheltering benladin and poor karizi was silent in the new conferance held in islam abad?
what kind of people you are.shouting from inside the room and kept silent in front of your enemy?
why are you people not patriotic?
masood,,,,,,,russain,iranain and isi agent.
gulbudin,,,,,,,isi,,,,,pakistan
hakani,,,,,,,,,,,isi,pakistan
omar,,,,,,,isi,,,,,,,pakistan
rabani,,,,,,,,iran,indai
salih,,,,,,,,iran,indai,west
ismail,,,,,,,,iran
khalili,,,,,,,,,,,iran
khalis,,,,,,,pakistan,,isi
karzai,,,,,pakistani isi,,,west
abdullah,,iran,indai
the list gose on and on.I could,nt find any afghani in the list.all pupets
anyone with normal brain will fully understand the suffering of poor afghanis.
we never claim pakistan a freind of pashtun and there is no need repeating the samething again and again.

Yaggi, it's of no use closing threads by you because you will open up hundred other similar threads. But just so you don't create hundreds of other threads to show your hatred towards 'Pathans', I will leave this thread on but the rules regarding use of language still applies. Don't derail too much.

if you are pakistani patriot and you angry i understanding
but not my fault..you angry? you offending? you have right
but be mad angry offending at jinnah who two face british
educated lawyer who drink alchol and eat swine try to swindle
15 year old parsi underage girl before he becoming messiah of
islam...this man never pray and he come from one kaper sect of muslims
agha khani shia ismaili khoja but pakistani historian making lies and
saying he later conver to 12ler shia but is that make difference???
he was coming from rich gujrati elite family he only concern with
ecnomical politics not because of ALLAH or RASOOL or ISLAM

google more google books search jinnah secular socialist pork alchol

a pig eating a pig. sounds like cannibalism.

Dina jinah looks like her father.

she married to kaper also
she say in court battle her father is not muslim because
he secular and he also khoja ismaili she said this because
she fighting legal battle for jinnah inheritance from jinnah
ancestors who were hindus but conver to khoja ismaili islam
they rich elite people with lots of land and wealth
this is why jinnah say to make pakistan to make elites
musalman families having their own little nation it was not about
islam or muslaman future it was about their elite pockets
jinnah was british playboy dressing in fancy suits and his
wife was his 15 year old parsi girlfrirend also from elite family
they alll connected to british as they providing british services
jinnah family send him to british for these purposes they big time
british servants and is why british side with them

it is sad in pakistan it is thought to pakhtun kids that jinnah is
ISLAMIC HERO and Ghaffar Khan who going to hajj 5 times a hindu agent
who resist british raj with good means who not wishing to hurt people
so he not encouraging seperation partiition because it means more deaths
but jinnah greedy gujrati businessman he only care about elite profits


pakistani pathans totally brainwahs yaaar its so sad