I would like to start a debate between those who support Paksitan as a state and those who do not accept Pakistan as a state.

As I am a witness of Pakistans brutality towards Mahsuds and Wazirs, I would love to start a debate with those who love their Pakistaniyat.

Let the debate begin.

I hope Moderators can play a good role in this debate and nobody should show any favouritism.

I would like to start this debate, by saying, Iam fully against Pakistan, Pakistan to me is an obstacle towards Pashtun unity and the unification of our identity and language. I would also like to add that, during the British sponsored pertition, over 10 million Tribal Pashtuns were prohibited from voting and were bribed by Jinnahs British trained army and government with money to install Maliks who were loyal to the Pakistani State.

I would also like to say that Jinnah was not a good Muslim role model as i personally feel Ismailis are not even classed as Muslims by Shias or Sunnis.

Pakistan has always worked to destroy Pashtun unity, a good example of this, is the ENFORCEMENT of the FCR upon tribals whereby no political party can operate there but a Malik System whereby one Agent pays them off to keep the people stop questioning the Government of Pakistan.

I can not debate with you because pakistan has never given attention to FATA, and has always ignored it. FATA people has always been used as cannon fodder.

But one thing is that FATA people themselves do not want their area to be settled, i dont know why?

Even in case of swat operation and waziristan operation, the miseries of waziristani IDOPs were ignored and downplayed while swat idps were fully highlighted in pakistani media.

Tribals do want it to be settled but with its own administration and independent status, FCR and etc is not want i would call a suitable rule of law when we are in the modern era.

^No
that is America

@makeen
i am a pashtoon by my ethnicity. I love Afghanis and consider them as my elder brother.

i am pakistani by my birth. I got education, job, status and everything from the soil of Pakistan.
So i can never hate my country. Nor i bear abusing it.
Only bad luck of Pakistan is corrupt govt...a group of looters is always coming in govt again n again by difft faces.

My wish:
i want that patriotic pashtuns must come in pakistan govt and serve pashtuns at their best. Hegemony of punjabis should be broken down then. All due rights must be met to my people.

PESHAWAR: The Peshawar High Court on Thursday sought explanation from the political agent of South Waziristan Agency for issuing a general order for arresting all Mehsud tribesmen and confiscating their properties.

A bench comprising Chief Justice Tariq Pervez Khan and Justice Attaullah Khan enquired when there were a number of Mehsud tribesmen serving on key posts like army officer, police, judges, doctors and lawyers why they had not been arrested when the political agent had issued the impugned order.

It asked how the political agent could issue such an order for arresting all the members of the tribe and confiscating their properties.
The chief justice observed that such orders were often issued by the viceroys. It was observed that if this order was implemented it would affect hundreds of thousands of people.

The court was hearing a writ petition filed by two residents of the Tank district, Mohammad Nawaz and Tawkal Din, challenging their detention under section 21 of the Frontier Crimes Regulation.

NWFP Advocate-General Ziaur Rehman Khan told the court that he would contact the political agent and try to convince him for withdrawing the order. The court fixed September 15 for next hearing.

Advocates Aminur Rehman and Kareem Mehsud appeared for the petitioners. They contended that their clients were residents of a settled district and the authorities had detained them in an illegal manner, adding the impugned order was illegal and unconstitutional.

The political agent in his capacity as district magistrate had issued an order on June 14, 2009, wherein he stated that the Mehsud tribal elders had failed to discharge their responsibilities in handing over militants of their tribe involved in terrorist activities across the country and those terrorists other than Mehsuds, including foreign elements who had taken refugee in the Mehsud area.

The order states: ‘I, the political agent/district magistrate, South Waziristan Agency in exercise of the power conferred upon me under section 21-FCR, do hereby order the seizure where they may be found of all members of Mehsud Tribe and confiscation of moveable/immovable property belonging to them in NWFP and their arrest and taking into custody any person of the tribe wherever he is found.’

The petitioners stated that on June 15 the political agent of South Waziristan based at Tank summoned Malik Palam Khan, father of Mohammad Nawaz, and Malik Taulab Khan, father of Tawkal Din, in connection with a jirga regarding law and order situation in the agency.

They said Malik Taulab appeared in person and since Malik Palam was not available, his son Mohammad Nawaz appeared before the political agent. They claimed that instead of holding jirga, the political agent arrested both of them without any reason and kept them in the political prison in Tank. After 15 days, the two were sent to the Dera Ismail Khan Central Prison.

Later, on a request of Tawkal Din for release of his father as he was old and ill, the political agent released Malik Taulab on July 14, but Tawkal Din was arrested and sent to prison.


This is the Islamic state of Pakistan and is claiming to Support and protect Pashtuns when Punjabis militants roam around terrorising innocent pashtuns but punjabi citizens are not being subjected to such laws.

But would your Paksitan accept Pashtun Unity? and how many bombs can Pashtuns bear before being accepted by Pakistan and thirdly, blaiming the government is very easy but many pashtuns have experienced racism and discrimination by Pakistani Punjabis, and there are 1000's of recorded incidents, but you see, this is what i mean, you havnt tasted reality nor oppression by Pakistan army or state, once your relatives are murdered by a stray artilary shell or your whole village flattened and your crops destroyed then you will realise what Pakistan is.

Right. I know pakistan govt is develish. But neither a common punjabi nor a common pashtun is happy on bombarments in waziristan.
Furthermore, I could become really anti pakistani if i found majority of pashtuns near me were anti pakistan. No body was anti pakistan i found. Today i had sms chat with the president of our Pashtun Students Union from Butt-khela. He told me that no pakistani pashtun hates pakistan and Muhamad Ali Jinah. He said that dont believe in those brain washd afghans. I talkd frnds of bajaur, waziristan, swat, mardan, Attock swabi, peshawar, Kohat, bannu....everybody is patriotic pakistani pashtun.
I could develop hate for pakistan if i found majority pashtuns near me hating it. Its my criteri. If that time comes, when majority pashtuns around me wil hate pakistan, then i ll also become anti pakistani.

I find what you say not sufficiant enough to prove your point.

Iam have just returned from Waziristan, I met IDPs in DI khan and Tank and they all held Anti Pakistan views. Iam not sure who your friends are, but most of them probably are sons/daughters of Government Servents.

Why dont you ask a Pashtun who has lost everything if he loves Pakistan. And you say dont beleive those Brainwashed Afghans? This is the similar tone ive experienced from Government children who dont wanna loose that lifestyle for their own people.

I still laugh at that, haha brainwashed Afghans, I can reply and say, I was told by an Tribal elder not to listen to those Brainwashed by Punjabi Pashtuns.

I have videos that were given to me by pashtuns there, they prayed that i publich them to the west as Pakistan and its people are very biased towards them.

Also if Punjabis are so good to Pashtuns, then why have i received alot of complaints from SWAT IDPS that thye were treated very badly by them.

Also Jinnah did not fight for Pashtuns, he was an British Agent, he fought for Indian Muslims for British interests. Tell me, what did Jinnah do for Pashtuns eh? he even supported to ban tribals from voting, and not only this, how is he a good islamic figure? and as being a Muslim, would you accept to follow the ideas of a Ismaili Non beleiver?