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Default Democracy - 11-13-2017, 06:27 PM

There is sadly some harmful rhetoric's Muslims spew regarding democracy. The ironic part is that it isn't harmful for anyone but Muslims themselves. What they say is that voting in a democratic society is against their belief. The logic behind their argument is that there should only be a sharia law or with other words, Gods law to mankind, which means any law passed by a person is haram and therefor Muslims should abstain from voting.

From a philosophical point of view its all good and well. I mean its their view and belief, and there is certainly a ground foundation to it. So where is problematic you ask... well, let me tell you. To highlight the problem, one need to know what democracy means to begin with. Democracy means '''rule of the people'' or you could translate it to ''power of the people''. Now that we know what it means, then lets us look at what effect it has on Muslims, when Muslims don't vote, especially in western countries.

In a democratic society, it is the vote which is the power. And to put it simply, if Muslims don't vote, they simply don't have power. Some of you may be aware that in Europe, the politics is leaning toward the right wing for the past few years. Even more centric parties are becoming more right wing oriented. So the question is, how come in a country where Muslim population is steadily increasing, yet the politics is leaning toward right wing. Some may argue that it is because of the very fact that Muslim population is increasing the politics is getting more right wing oriented, it is indeed, but this would only explain why right wing parties becoming more popular, but it doesn't explain why all other parties are becoming more right wing oriented, and the more left wing oriented are losing support. I make a long story short, it is because Muslims aren't voting.

Let me explain. For a politician/party the most crucial point is to get power, and to get power, they need votes. If the countries population is increasingly getting more right wing oriented, the politician jobs will simply be to catch their vote. So why catch their eye in the expense of the Muslim population you may ask. Is it because they hate Muslims? Far from it. They have nothing against Muslims, but the reality is if Muslims don't vote, there is no need to fight for their ''right''. Obviously they wont harm them in any way, and as long they don't get harmed, they wont care if they pass a few laws against Muslims interest to satisfy the increasingly right wing oriented voters.

The thing is that no matter how good ideology the party have, how good politics they have, how good politician they have, as long they don't have votes, they wont have power to implement their parties politic. Fighting for a minorities right that doesn't vote is the last thing in their mind, especially when they aren't under persecution, they rather fight for economic politic, social politic, welfare ets.

Those things probably already obvious, so why do I mention them? Well, because I need them to know the basics, before I tear their philosophy down. By philosophy I mean the idea behind that they shouldn't vote, because they should only follow Sharia law and not some human made law.

Firstly, if you wanna follow Islam accordingly, then you need to have that freedom to do so in the respective country. If right wing parties are getting bigger by day, and their sole purpose is to prevent Islamic and Muslim cultural influence in the west, they will most certainly work to implement laws that prevent you from practicing your religion freely. So in that sense, isn't the most logical thing to do, is to vote for someone who wont prevent you from exercising your religious freedom... Not voting because there is no candidate that is a Mullah of your choice has no logical ground to stand on, and is actually in literal sense retarded. In retarded I do not mean it as an insult, but as in literal meaning of it(just to clarify). Basically it is your religious duty as a Muslim to vote for someone, that doesn't prevent you from practicing your religion freely, and if you're smart; vote for someone whose interest align with yours.




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People with identity crisis will be ignored as well.

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Default 11-14-2017, 05:23 AM

obviously Muslims should vote in western countries. what type of fool do you have to be to not do that, if the system is democratic.

BUt I think Muslims here don't want democracy in Muslim countries, which is entirely somehting different.

Last edited by UnknownUser; 11-14-2017 at 07:16 AM.
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Default 11-14-2017, 06:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM0305 View Post
There is sadly some harmful rhetoric's Muslims spew regarding democracy. The ironic part is that it isn't harmful for anyone but Muslims themselves. What they say is that voting in a democratic society is against their belief. The logic behind their argument is that there should only be a sharia law or with other words, Gods law to mankind, which means any law passed by a person is haram and therefor Muslims should abstain from voting.

From a philosophical point of view its all good and well. I mean its their view and belief, and there is certainly a ground foundation to it. So where is problematic you ask... well, let me tell you. To highlight the problem, one need to know what democracy means to begin with. Democracy means '''rule of the people'' or you could translate it to ''power of the people''. Now that we know what it means, then lets us look at what effect it has on Muslims, when Muslims don't vote, especially in western countries.

In a democratic society, it is the vote which is the power. And to put it simply, if Muslims don't vote, they simply don't have power. Some of you may be aware that in Europe, the politics is leaning toward the right wing for the past few years. Even more centric parties are becoming more right wing oriented. So the question is, how come in a country where Muslim population is steadily increasing, yet the politics is leaning toward right wing. Some may argue that it is because of the very fact that Muslim population is increasing the politics is getting more right wing oriented, it is indeed, but this would only explain why right wing parties becoming more popular, but it doesn't explain why all other parties are becoming more right wing oriented, and the more left wing oriented are losing support. I make a long story short, it is because Muslims aren't voting.

Let me explain. For a politician/party the most crucial point is to get power, and to get power, they need votes. If the countries population is increasingly getting more right wing oriented, the politician jobs will simply be to catch their vote. So why catch their eye in the expense of the Muslim population you may ask. Is it because they hate Muslims? Far from it. They have nothing against Muslims, but the reality is if Muslims don't vote, there is no need to fight for their ''right''. Obviously they wont harm them in any way, and as long they don't get harmed, they wont care if they pass a few laws against Muslims interest to satisfy the increasingly right wing oriented voters.

The thing is that no matter how good ideology the party have, how good politics they have, how good politician they have, as long they don't have votes, they wont have power to implement their parties politic. Fighting for a minorities right that doesn't vote is the last thing in their mind, especially when they aren't under persecution, they rather fight for economic politic, social politic, welfare ets.

Those things probably already obvious, so why do I mention them? Well, because I need them to know the basics, before I tear their philosophy down. By philosophy I mean the idea behind that they shouldn't vote, because they should only follow Sharia law and not some human made law.

Firstly, if you wanna follow Islam accordingly, then you need to have that freedom to do so in the respective country. If right wing parties are getting bigger by day, and their sole purpose is to prevent Islamic and Muslim cultural influence in the west, they will most certainly work to implement laws that prevent you from practicing your religion freely. So in that sense, isn't the most logical thing to do, is to vote for someone who wont prevent you from exercising your religious freedom... Not voting because there is no candidate that is a Mullah of your choice has no logical ground to stand on, and is actually in literal sense retarded. In retarded I do not mean it as an insult, but as in literal meaning of it(just to clarify). Basically it is your religious duty as a Muslim to vote for someone, that doesn't prevent you from practicing your religion freely, and if you're smart; vote for someone whose interest align with yours.

There is already a thread discussing this topic, gipsy. And no one is here discussing Muslims should partake in the democratic game in the West or not. What we are discussing is if democracy is that great or if its good for the Islamic world.

Please, kill yourself.

Dera manana.


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

-Ferdowsi.
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Default 11-14-2017, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firdousi View Post
There is already a thread discussing this topic, gipsy. And no one is here discussing Muslims should partake in the democratic game in the West or not. What we are discussing is if democracy is that great or if its good for the Islamic world.

Please, kill yourself.

Dera manana.
Look at the intelligence of this person. A classic example of mental dysfunction. Firstly he says there is already a topic regarding this, but then in the very next sentence he says that no one actually discussing this topic. I tried to highlight it to show that his statements aren't in coherence, but both of his statements are just right after each other, lol. I highlighted it anyway for his sake, due to his mental state.

This stupidity really deserves a DSM. You can call me a doctor or psychologist, but I hereby declare you a borderline intellectual functioning or better known as a borderline mental disability.


Don't quote me or speak to me if you hate Afghanistan, you be ignored.

People with identity crisis will be ignored as well.

''When you cant make them see the light, make them feel the heat''
Ronald Reagan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7cmZyOrUA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC9sz0nPePI

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Default 11-14-2017, 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM0305 View Post
Look at the intelligence of this person. A classic example of mental dysfunction. Firstly he says there is already a topic regarding this, but then in the very next sentence he says that no one actually discussing this topic. I tried to highlight it to show that his statements aren't in coherence, but both of his statements are just right after each other, lol. I highlighted it anyway for his sake, due to his mental state.

This stupidity really deserves a DSM. You can call me a doctor or psychologist, but I hereby declare you a borderline intellectual functioning or better known as a borderline mental disability.
You must be the first gipsy doctor in human history. You and your family celebrating the day you got your master degree:

Borat's Disco Dance [HD] - YouTube

LOL


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

-Ferdowsi.
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DSM0305 DSM0305 is offline
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Default 11-14-2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firdousi View Post
You must be the first gipsy doctor in human history. You and your family celebrating the day you got your master degree:

Borat's Disco Dance [HD] - YouTube

LOL
No counter argument, as expected. Instead relaying on posting a video of your private party of you and your family, lol. Now, don't overdo yourself in the comment section. We cant have your 2 remaining brain cells straining themselves hahaha


Don't quote me or speak to me if you hate Afghanistan, you be ignored.

People with identity crisis will be ignored as well.

''When you cant make them see the light, make them feel the heat''
Ronald Reagan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7cmZyOrUA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC9sz0nPePI

Pashto dictionary:
http://thepashto.com/index.php
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Firdousi Firdousi is offline
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Default 11-14-2017, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by DSM0305 View Post
No counter argument, as expected. Instead relaying on posting a video of your private party of you and your family, lol. Now, don't overdo yourself in the comment section. We cant have your 2 remaining brain cells straining themselves hahaha
Gipsy doctor, you are not smart enough to realize that i won. I have derailed your thread. LOL

If you want counter-arguments visit my thread.

Afghan/Pashtun Forum Conspiracy Theories


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

-Ferdowsi.
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DSM0305 DSM0305 is offline
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Default 11-14-2017, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firdousi View Post
Gipsy doctor, you are not smart enough to realize that i won. I have derailed your thread. LOL

If you want counter-arguments visit my thread.

Afghan/Pashtun Forum Conspiracy Theories
Congratulation, what did you win? A medal, a cake, a bag of chips? lol. A typical schizophrenic behavior. Thinking and imagining there is something going on, complete derailed from the reality.

First of all, if you used your remaining 2 brain cells that you have. You would have realized that I am not getting paid for posting or from people reading my posts, so how derailing my thread harm me in any possible way... secondly, if anything you made my thread far more viewable by commenting. A thread with 1 comment wont make a viewer curious enough to read it, especially when the post is widely long for a comment. So by commenting and arguing with me, you have given it free advertisement.

So basically you haven't accomplish anything regardless from whatever perspective you may look at it. The only thing you got is some well rounded thrashing. Unless of course that what turns you on... in that case; well done masochist.


Don't quote me or speak to me if you hate Afghanistan, you be ignored.

People with identity crisis will be ignored as well.

''When you cant make them see the light, make them feel the heat''
Ronald Reagan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7cmZyOrUA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC9sz0nPePI

Pashto dictionary:
http://thepashto.com/index.php
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mixxedpashtana mixxedpashtana is offline
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Default 11-14-2017, 02:14 PM

You have some valid points and I agree with you for the most part.

You mentoined that other parties are becoming more right wing oriented and that this is due to muslims not voting, so politicians feel no need to fight for them.
I have to comment on that. Politicians, like you said, want power to achieve their goals, to persue their ideology. In order to do so, they need votes. So other parties, centre parties and even in some matter left wing parties, adopt right wing statements and principles, because the population is becoming more and more right wing oriŽnted. It has nothing to do with muslims not voting, even if they vote (and most of them do in the western world) the amount of the muslim population compared to non muslims is little.
Even if all muslims would vote, and lets assume for the hypothesis that they will vote for left wing parties that favor their preferences; that party wont has any significant power when looking at coalitions.

I absolutely agree with your conclusion, we should vote if we live in a western country. I find that the muslims who do not vote are these dubble standards muslims that select certain islamic rules in preference and decline some that are not favorable. But back to your conclusion, the muslims that do vote, and that vote for parties that fight for equality and freedom of religion and so on, do not gain as much as they would expect because the power of these parties compared to the power of the major parties is very minimal. Politics is an arena, and a lion will win from a cat.


Oderint dum metuant
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Default 11-14-2017, 03:43 PM

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Dera manana.
Off topic, but is there a native Farsi words for "thanks"? Or is "تشکر" the only way to say it?
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