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salman47 salman47 is offline
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Default 10-23-2017, 11:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Azmal View Post
These set back can only delay the creation of Kurdistan. The fact is fertility rate of Kurd are much higher then Turks, Persian and rest...in few generation Kurds will be majority in Turkey.
I honestly can't wait for the day when Irkon(Iran) breaks into Kurdistan, Awasitan, Baluchistan and Azarbijan.
The high fertility rate does not matter, because most of them in Turkey do not identify as Kurds at all!
In Fact the Turkish Kurds have become like the 'Pathans'. Can't even say hello in Kurdish, but somehow they are Kurdish.
They have become the same subjects as our Northern Iranic cousins, who became Turks.
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Default 10-24-2017, 06:05 AM

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Originally Posted by salman47 View Post
The high fertility rate does not matter, because most of them in Turkey do not identify as Kurds at all!
In Fact the Turkish Kurds have become like the 'Pathans'. Can't even say hello in Kurdish, but somehow they are Kurdish.
They have become the same subjects as our Northern Iranic cousins, who became Turks.
Actually plenty of conservative religious Kurds identify with Erdogan and his conservative ways than with the atheist PKK/YPG.

I have met many Kurdish Muslims in Germany who don't give a s hit about Kurdistan.


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

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Default 10-24-2017, 09:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Azmal View Post
These set back can only delay the creation of Kurdistan. The fact is fertility rate of Kurd are much higher then Turks, Persian and rest...in few generation Kurds will be majority in Turkey.
I honestly can't wait for the day when Irkon(Iran) breaks into Kurdistan, Awasitan, Baluchistan and Azarbijan.
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Originally Posted by Firdousi View Post
Actually plenty of conservative religious Kurds identify with Erdogan and his conservative ways than with the atheist PKK/YPG.

I have met many Kurdish Muslims in Germany who don't give a s hit about Kurdistan.
I have Kurdish friend who hate Erdoghan, and voted against him in the referendum, but still he prefers Turkey over Kurdistan anytime.
Another Kurdish friend, who came to Ankara to receive education was bullied 'Turks' because he couldn't speak Turkish properly, and mocked very badly because he is a Kurd. This guy prefers Kurdistan.
Both of them are Muslims
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kanishka kanishka is offline
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Default 10-24-2017, 11:38 PM

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Originally Posted by salman47 View Post
The high fertility rate does not matter, because most of them in Turkey do not identify as Kurds at all!
In Fact the Turkish Kurds have become like the 'Pathans'. Can't even say hello in Kurdish, but somehow they are Kurdish.
They have become the same subjects as our Northern Iranic cousins, who became Turks.
because of Islam. Erdogan is pulling the islam lure on them.

if it was still ataturk, i'm sure these kurds wouldn't be happy.
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Default 10-24-2017, 11:54 PM

Kurds are probably more conservative and religious when compared to the Turks, but when compared to the Arabs, especially the Iraqi Arabs, they are quite secular. Turkish govt. is way to paranoid about even the slightest rising autonomy for Kurds in Iraq or Syria. Turkey must be really insecure about its Kurds. As a Muslim I am opposed to all forms of ethnic nationalism, but it seems that forcing these different ethnic groups to live with each other inevitably leads to conflict and therefore greater sharpening of ethnic differences and ethnic based politics. Although a religion-based State is ideal, I guess dividing the Middle East along ethnic lines in correction of Sykes Picot would be preferable to the status quo.
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Default 10-25-2017, 01:37 AM

The future belongs to those that can create cooperative unions of many peoples. Nationalist ideologues would be the biggest losers.
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Default 10-25-2017, 05:45 AM

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Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Kurds are probably more conservative and religious when compared to the Turks, but when compared to the Arabs, especially the Iraqi Arabs, they are quite secular. Turkish govt. is way to paranoid about even the slightest rising autonomy for Kurds in Iraq or Syria. Turkey must be really insecure about its Kurds. As a Muslim I am opposed to all forms of ethnic nationalism, but it seems that forcing these different ethnic groups to live with each other inevitably leads to conflict and therefore greater sharpening of ethnic differences and ethnic based politics. Although a religion-based State is ideal, I guess dividing the Middle East along ethnic lines in correction of Sykes Picot would be preferable to the status quo.
Erdogan has given more rights to the Kurds than any other ruler of the modern Republic of Turkey. Actually Kurds are lucky. If those crazy secular Turkish nationalist were ruling Turkey we should already witnessed mass-crimes against Kurds. Erdogan´s religious values are the only thing that holds him back from butchering his Muslim Kurdish brothers.

400 Bad Request


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

-Ferdowsi.
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Default 11-15-2017, 08:03 PM

How can a dead religion be revived?

Sure Zorastrianism was the religion of early Iranian peoples, and it was the oldest monotheistic religion predating the Abrahamic religions, and there is some ethno-cultural connections, but still going from one religion to another, and in the case of Zorastrianism revival of an old and pretty much dead religion, I don't see how it can be done. The belief in the religion will never be strong as it it was in ancient times. Too much time has passed since Zorastrian was the main religion of the region, until Islam replaced it.
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Default 11-15-2017, 08:30 PM

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How can a dead religion be revived?

Sure Zorastrianism was the religion of early Iranian peoples, and it was the oldest monotheistic religion predating the Abrahamic religions, and there is some ethno-cultural connections, but still going from one religion to another, and in the case of Zorastrianism revival of an old and pretty much dead religion, I don't see how it can be done. The belief in the religion will never be strong as it it was in ancient times. Too much time has passed since Zorastrian was the main religion of the region, until Islam replaced it.
Zoroastrianism is monotheistic? No, Zoroastrianism is dualist religion. They believe that Ahura Mazda (their name for the Creator-God) has an evil twin Angra Mainyu.

Unlike the concept of Satan in the Abrahamic tradition, Angra Mainyu is independent of Ahura Mazda, and is co-eternal with him.

The dualism of the Zoroastrians/Magians was known to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) who predicted a sect would appear from his Umma that would resemble the Magian dualists. Just as the Magians believe in two co-eternal and independent forces (the “good” Ahura Mazda and “bad” Angra Mainyu), the Qadariya sect hold that man himself is the creator of his sinful deeds, thus ascribing to man a portion of ‘Qadar’, whereas orthodox Muslims believe that Allah is the Creator of all deeds, including both good and evil deeds, though man ‘acquires’ those deeds through his free will.

Incidentally, the Mu’tazila inherited the heresy of the Qadariya, believing that man, not God, is the creator of his own deeds. This doctrine penetrated into the Muslim community through the Persian Sinbuya via Ma’bad al-Juhani. So the origin of this semi-dualist belief is from the original dualist source of Zoroastrianism/Magianism.
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maneatinglizard maneatinglizard is online now
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Default 11-15-2017, 09:30 PM

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Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Zoroastrianism is monotheistic? No, Zoroastrianism is dualist religion. They believe that Ahura Mazda (their name for the Creator-God) has an evil twin Angra Mainyu.

Unlike the concept of Satan in the Abrahamic tradition, Angra Mainyu is independent of Ahura Mazda, and is co-eternal with him.

The dualism of the Zoroastrians/Magians was known to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) who predicted a sect would appear from his Umma that would resemble the Magian dualists. Just as the Magians believe in two co-eternal and independent forces (the “good” Ahura Mazda and “bad” Angra Mainyu), the Qadariya sect hold that man himself is the creator of his sinful deeds, thus ascribing to man a portion of ‘Qadar’, whereas orthodox Muslims believe that Allah is the Creator of all deeds, including both good and evil deeds, though man ‘acquires’ those deeds through his free will.

Incidentally, the Mu’tazila inherited the heresy of the Qadariya, believing that man, not God, is the creator of his own deeds. This doctrine penetrated into the Muslim community through the Persian Sinbuya via Ma’bad al-Juhani. So the origin of this semi-dualist belief is from the original dualist source of Zoroastrianism/Magianism.
No, the original Zoroastrian beliefs were, as far as we can tell, monotheistic. The earliest Zoroastrian texts (that are believed to have come from Zoroaster himself) barely mention Angra Mainyu, and do not associate him as a twin of Ahura Mazda, but rather Spenta Mainyu, and both are creations of Ahura Mazda.

For example, Yasna 44:5 implies that Ahura Mazda is creator of both light and darkness:

Quote:
This do I ask Thee, O Ahura and wish you to tell me truly. Who is the Creator of light and darkness? What architect has fashioned sleep and awakening, rest and activity? Who has created the dawn, the day and the night, teaching the wise man to fulfill his daily duties properly.

Yasna 44
Dualism was a later development of Zoroastrianism, and eventually came to the point where one heretical group believed that Ohrmazd and Ahriman were themselves creations of a third, Zurvan, that was believed to be the supreme creator (but unlike our belief in Allah, they believed Zurvan was merely the initial creator, and didn't care about what happened after the creation).

While the Zoroastrians of the time of Rasulullah (salla Allahu alayhi wa salam) definitely had many beliefs totally incompatible with Islam and the Abrahamic traditions, the original beliefs do seem very close to our concept of monotheism.
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