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Default The Taliban Tried to Surrender and the U.S. Rebuffed Them. Now Here We Are. - 09-20-2017, 12:45 AM

The Taliban Tried to Surrender and the U.S. Rebuffed Them. Now Here We Are.
The Taliban Tried to Surrender and the U.S. Rebuffed Them. Now Here We Are.

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Did you know that shortly after the U.S. invaded Afghanistan,*the Taliban tried to surrender?
For centuries in Afghanistan, when a rival force had come to power, the defeated one would put down their weapons*and be integrated into the new power structure — obviously with much less power, or none at all. That’s how you do with neighbors you have to continue to live with. This isn’t a football game, where the teams go to different cities when it’s over. That may be hard for us to remember, because the U.S. hasn’t fought a protracted war on its own soil since the Civil War.

So when the Taliban came to surrender,*the U.S. turned them down repeatedly, in a series of arrogant*blunders spelled out in Anand Gopal’s investigative treatment of the Afghanistan war, “No Good Men Among the Living.”
Only full annihilation was enough for the Bush administration. They wanted more terrorists in body bags. The problem was that the Taliban had stopped fighting, having either fled to Pakistan or melted back into civilian life. Al Qaeda, for its part, was down to a handful of members.
So how do you kill terrorists if there aren’t any?

Simple: Afghans that the U.S. worked with understood the predicament their military sponsors were in, so they fabricated bad guys. Demand has a way of creating supply, and the U.S. was paying for information that led to the death or capture of Taliban fighters. Suddenly there were Taliban everywhere. Score-settling ran amok; all you had to do to get your neighbor killed or sent to Guantánamo was tell the U.S. they were members of the Taliban.

Doors would be kicked in, no questions asked. The men left standing became warlords, built massive fortunes, and shipped their wealth abroad. “We are not nation-building again,” President Donald Trump declared Monday night. Well, we never were, unless building high-rises with looted cash in Dubai counts.

After a few years of this charade, after their surrender efforts were repeatedly rebuffed, the old Taliban started picking up guns again. When they were driven from power, the population was happy to see them go. The U.S. managed to make them popular again.
Liberals then spent the 2008 presidential campaign complaining that the U.S. had “ignored” Afghanistan — when, in reality, the parts of the country without troop presence were the only parts at peace, facing no insurgency against the Afghan government, such as it was. Then President Barack Obama came in and launched a surge in troop levels while simultaneously announcing a withdrawal — coupled with a heightened focus on night raids, relying on the same system of*unreliable intelligence that had netted so many uninvolved*people already.
And now Trump says he has a new and better strategy. He says the U.S. needs to get Pakistan more involved — except, of course, Pakistan’s intelligence service has been propping up the Taliban for decades.

Gopal’s book*is the definitive account of how the war went off the rails.*It reads like a novel, but is an all-too-real portrait of three Afghans as they lived through the war — a pro-U.S. warlord, a Taliban commander, and a housewife. I’d suggest Trump read it — the book provides a dire warning against the sort of war effort the president is about to double down on — but it’s longer than a page, which his advisers say is the max he’ll digest. And besides, the only thing he seems interested in is the fact that Afghanistan has a bunch of minerals he thinks the U.S. is owed.
Before Trump spends the windfall he hopes to reap from mining Afghanistan, he should consider one starting reality: We are now losing a war to an enemy that already surrendered. That’s not easy to do.

Last edited by khushal; 09-20-2017 at 12:55 AM.
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Default 09-20-2017, 12:51 AM

The same thing in Iraq. Leaving the Sunnis out of any power arrangement has basically destroyed the country and the present retaking of Mosul from ISIS is just temporary. The instability will continue and unfortunately so will the suffering of the people.
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Default 09-20-2017, 02:57 AM

Basically everything about this article is wrong, including the central point.

The Taliban never stopped fighting, and certainly never offered a surrender. It seems like the author is either considering their offer of trying Osama Bin Laden or handing him over to Pakistan for trial as a surrender, or is just plainly making things up.

Bush and the US may be nuts, but they would've loved the opportunity to claim victory in the same country where Britain and Russia failed. If the Taliban had actually surrendered, they would've certainly accepted it, especially since they would've been gearing up for their next war anyway.
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Default 09-20-2017, 03:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
Basically everything about this article is wrong, including the central point.

The Taliban never stopped fighting, and certainly never offered a surrender. It seems like the author is either considering their offer of trying Osama Bin Laden or handing him over to Pakistan for trial as a surrender, or is just plainly making things up.

Bush and the US may be nuts, but they would've loved the opportunity to claim victory in the same country where Britain and Russia failed. If the Taliban had actually surrendered, they would've certainly accepted it, especially since they would've been gearing up for their next war anyway.
after the invasion taliban were fragmented and many commanders were on their own. there were no coordination. haqqani were willing to become part of the government basically they were also warlord but in coalition with taliban, the late leader akhtar mansoor tried to came in peace but was rejected. thousand of taliban aggreed to surrender to Abdul Rashid Dostum near Kanduz and war crimes were committed against the POW and were killed under the patronage of CIA. see battle of Qila jangi,Massacre at Dasht-e-Leili




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Default 09-20-2017, 04:41 AM

Typical liberal BS. The current Taliban movement is much different than the Taliban who fought against Massoud and the USA. Many of them weren't even Afghans. This article doesn't make any sense.

Kunduz airlift - Wikipedia


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Default 09-20-2017, 04:42 AM

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Originally Posted by marwat View Post
after the invasion taliban were fragmented and many commanders were on their own. there were no coordination. haqqani were willing to become part of the government basically they were also warlord but in coalition with taliban, the late leader akhtar mansoor tried to came in peace but was rejected. thousand of taliban aggreed to surrender to Abdul Rashid Dostum near Kanduz and war crimes were committed against the POW and were killed under the patronage of CIA. see battle of Qila jangi,Massacre at Dasht-e-Leili




So what? Nothing wrong about this. Most of them weren't even Afghans but Pakis and Arabs. What were they doing in our country? Butchering them was a great.


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

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Default 09-20-2017, 05:01 AM

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Originally Posted by marwat View Post
after the invasion taliban were fragmented and many commanders were on their own. there were no coordination. haqqani were willing to become part of the government basically they were also warlord but in coalition with taliban, the late leader akhtar mansoor tried to came in peace but was rejected. thousand of taliban aggreed to surrender to Abdul Rashid Dostum near Kanduz and war crimes were committed against the POW and were killed under the patronage of CIA. see battle of Qila jangi,Massacre at Dasht-e-Leili




Individual groups and people did surrender of course, but the group as a whole, the leadership in particular, largely retreated, regrouped, and then launched their insurgency.

The problem with this article is that it seems to claim that Bush could've ended the war by accepting a mass Taliban surrender and then integrating them into the new government, but because he was a crazy Republican Christian he kept blowing up random Afghans until they were forced into fighting back.

That's a fairytale. The US botched the invasion and everything after no doubt, but there was always going to be a counter insurgency. The only way they could've avoided one was to not invade in the first place.
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Default 09-23-2017, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maneatinglizard View Post
Basically everything about this article is wrong, including the central point.

The Taliban never stopped fighting, and certainly never offered a surrender. It seems like the author is either considering their offer of trying Osama Bin Laden or handing him over to Pakistan for trial as a surrender, or is just plainly making things up.
incorrect, the US claimed the war was about bin laden and AQ and they offered some kind of a peaceful resolution before and after 911.
Taliban 'offered bin Laden trial before 9/11' - Al Jazeera English
Bush Rejects Taliban Bin Laden Offer

and the fighting had subsided in many parts of the country. AS you can see this timeline, more and more Taliban started to appear as more and more US soldiers were being sent.
Timeline of the War in Afghanistan (21–present - Wikipedia)

As Afghan diplomat SHukra Barakzai says
Afghanistan Again? | HuffPost
Quote:
A prominent Afghan diplomat doesn’t think so. Shukria Barakzai, a longtime member of the Afghan parliament now serving as Afghanistan’s ambassador to Norway ― herself a victim in 2014 of a Taliban*suicide bomber*― told me only weeks ago, “The Taliban are so over! They just want to go home, but you Americans won’t let them.”**
Quote:
Bush and the US may be nuts, but they would've loved the opportunity to claim victory in the same country where Britain and Russia failed. If the Taliban had actually surrendered, they would've certainly accepted it, especially since they would've been gearing up for their next war anyway.
Bush Admin had no intention of winning or ending this peacefully as demonstrated above, he refused negotiation with the Taliban and also refused any compromise with the Iraqis as well.
Did U.S. Miss Saddam Surrender Deal? - ABC News
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20....brianwhitaker

By the way they did claim victory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzrJwzYBUkU
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Default 09-23-2017, 08:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Firdousi View Post
So what? Nothing wrong about this. Most of them weren't even Afghans but Pakis and Arabs. What were they doing in our country? Butchering them was a great.
There were 3000 Afghans that were butchered:
Afghan massacre haunts Pentagon | World news | The Guardian

But even if they were Arabs or pakis, does not mean butchering and torturing is right on anyone. that's a sign of a psychopath.
Leading U.S. Psychologists Secretly Aided CIA Torture Program : NPR
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Default 09-25-2017, 05:16 AM

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Originally Posted by khushal View Post
There were 3000 Afghans that were butchered:
Afghan massacre haunts Pentagon | World news | The Guardian

But even if they were Arabs or pakis, does not mean butchering and torturing is right on anyone. that's a sign of a psychopath.
Leading U.S. Psychologists Secretly Aided CIA Torture Program : NPR
Who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword. They came to kill Afghans. I am glad Afghans killed them. Dont give a c rap about Pakis and Arabs that got killed in Afghanistan.


"For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

-Ferdowsi.
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