World's Largest Online Pashtun Community

Go Back   "Pull out your swords and slay anyone that says Pashtun and Afghan are not one! Arabs know this and so do Romans: Afghans are Pashtuns, Pashtuns are Afghans!" -Khushal Khattak > >
Reload this Page Luharan, Nayaan, Nandapan and Mulayan??
User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
(#11)
Old
Traveller's Avatar
Traveller Traveller is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Traveller is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 339
Thanks: 209
Thanked 152 Times in 111 Posts
My Mood: Inspired
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Default 02-25-2017, 12:53 AM

Also us Pashtuns who have grown up prade can be as bit annoying with our ignorance.
Please excuse us as many of us are trying to keep our roots even as we live abroad.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Traveller For This Useful Post:
Nekrofrost (02-25-2017), Samandri (02-25-2017)
(#12)
Old
Samandri's Avatar
Samandri Samandri is offline
PF senior
Samandri is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 2,070
Thanks: 668
Thanked 769 Times in 567 Posts
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default 02-25-2017, 01:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
This is interesting. My family are Mullayan/Qazyan(of Turkic lineage) and we're highly respected so I think Mullayan are a bit different from the other ones. I should also mention that we're still fully Pashtun in our culture and customs although we do put Islam above Pashtunwali(which is something a lot of educated religious Pashtuns do anyway).

I have a question though. I've heard of another caste called "Miagan." They're the ones who are supposed to own land. What's up with them? Are they also not Pashtun?
The saints (from different communities but also including Pashtuns), scholars and Sayydis were given respectable place in Pashtun society......they were given lands.

Some of the Miangan (descendants of Syed Ali Tirmizi alias Pir Baba) are of Syed origin , others are descendants of saints of different roots i believe. Akhund Panju Baba was Pashtun and his descendants are called Miangan. The most famous Miangan are Kaka Khels of Nowshera and they are actually Khattaks but recently they are claiming to be Syeds. A while ago i posted the following information about Kaka Khels on my blog ;

"As I have mentioned before, large number of Syeds in Pashtun belt and Indo-Pak, are fake. Among these fake Syeds are Kaka Khels of Nowshera. Their progenitor , Kasteer Gul alias Shaikh Rahmkar, has been clearly mentioned as a Khattak in Tarikh-i-Murassa (Yasin Khel Bolak Khattaks). "Manaqeeb" a Pashto source, whose author was contemporary of grandson of Khushal Khattak, also mention Shaikh Rahamkar as a Khattak. According to Sarfraz Khan Khattak (author of Tarikh-i-Khattak), " Majma-ul-Barakat" (written in 1868) was the first source which mentioned Kaka Khels as Syeds for the first time and thus misguided the people. According to him , after the Punjab , the settlement was due in Peshawar area ; the Syeds and Pirs expected "maafis"....Syed Abdullah Shah , a disciple of Kaka Sahib , thought of converting descentants of Kaka Sahib to be of the Syed origin and he hurriedly wrote down "Majma-ul-Barakat. The genealogical table produced in favour of Syed origin of Kaka Khels, is factually wrong. It is claimed that Kaka Sahib was a Yasinzai Syed of Pishin but Yasinzai Syeds (descendants of Syed Yasin) of Pishin claim descent from Imam Musa Kazim whereas Kaka Khels say Kaka Sahab was descendant of Syed Ismail. Their pedigree table say that Syed Ismail had three sons by name of Qaf, Khatim and Rajal but geneologists object to these tables and point out that Syed Ismail did not have descendants by these three names."

Last edited by Samandri; 02-25-2017 at 01:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Samandri For This Useful Post:
Nekrofrost (02-25-2017), Traveller (02-25-2017)
(#13)
Old
Traveller's Avatar
Traveller Traveller is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Traveller is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 339
Thanks: 209
Thanked 152 Times in 111 Posts
My Mood: Inspired
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Default 02-25-2017, 01:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samandri View Post
The saints (from different communities but also including Pashtuns), scholars and Sayydis were given respectable place in Pashtun society......they were given lands.

Some of the Miangan (descendants of Syed Ali Tirmizi alias Pir Baba) are of Syed origin , others are descendants of saints of different roots i believe. Akhund Panju Baba was Pashtun and his descendants are called Miangan. The most famous Miangan are Kaka Khels of Nowshera and they are actually Khattaks but recently they are claiming to be Syeds. A while ago i posted the following information about Kaka Khels on my blog ;

"As I have mentioned before, large number of Syeds in Pashtun belt and Indo-Pak, are fake. Among these fake Syeds are Kaka Khels of Nowshera. Their progenitor , Kasteer Gul alias Shaikh Rahmkar, has been clearly mentioned as a Khattak in Tarikh-i-Murassa (Yasin Khel Bolak Khattaks). "Manaqeeb" a Pashto source, whose author was contemporary of grandson of Khushal Khattak, also mention Shaikh Rahamkar as a Khattak. According to Sarfraz Khan Khattak (author of Tarikh-i-Khattak), " Majma-ul-Barakat" (written in 1868) was the first source which mentioned Kaka Khels as Syeds for the first time and thus misguided the people. According to him , after the Punjab , the settlement was due in Peshawar area ; the Syeds and Pirs expected "maafis"....Syed Abdullah Shah , a disciple of Kaka Sahib , thought of converting descentants of Kaka Sahib to be of the Syed origin and he hurriedly wrote down "Majma-ul-Barakat. The genealogical table produced in favour of Syed origin of Kaka Khels, is factually wrong. It is claimed that Kaka Sahib was a Yasinzai Syed of Pishin but Yasinzai Syeds (descendants of Syed Yasin) of Pishin claim descent from Imam Musa Kazim whereas Kaka Khels say Kaka Sahab was descendant of Syed Ismail. Their pedigree table say that Syed Ismail had three sons by name of Qaf, Khatim and Rajal but geneologists object to these tables and point out that Syed Ismail did not have descendants by these three names."
I'm from Ziarat Kaka Sahib which is majority Kaka khel so that's must be why I was confused about them. But now I have another question. What is the difference between Qazyan/Mullayan and Miagan? They're both descended from saints of supposed non-Pashtun origin so what's the difference?

You should write something about these castes on your blog.

Last edited by Traveller; 02-25-2017 at 01:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Traveller For This Useful Post:
Nekrofrost (02-25-2017)
(#14)
Old
Charsi Malang Charsi Malang is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Charsi Malang is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 352
Thanks: 59
Thanked 128 Times in 100 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default 02-25-2017, 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samandri View Post
I think i was among the first ones who introduced internet-ish Western-Pashtuns (ones brought up in West) to the fact that these castes exists in Pashtun society and are considered inferior , on a web forum back in 2007 (Chaikhana/Pashto.org). The members back then had no clue what i am talking about , they refused to believe it and concluded that i must be from some Punjabized society. Then on this very forum we had heated debates about its existence, me and other native Pashtuns (e.g Gadoonwal) explained it in detail while the western diaspora was in denial. Nowadays members are lot more knowledgeable.

There are two classes in Pashtun society, Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns. Pashtuns are the ones who are genealogically Pashtuns and are divided into tribes....the non-Pashtuns are the dependent castes and communities who live under the shadow of Pashtuns and are mostly serfs. They are the descendants of conquered people ......Akhund Darweza inform us that when Pashtuns conquer any new territory, the native survivors are reduced to the status of slaves (برده ) and serfs (رعيت عاجز )...They were not assigned lands in Wesh system

In the past many of these conquered ones were also kept as household slaves.....when Pashtuns migrated to India, they also brought their household slaves and serfs to India. Some of these slaves or serfs made great figures in history. They were characterized by not having any tribal identity. For example Khawas Khan of Sher Shah Sur's household. Daud Khan of Shah Alam's Barech household etc
Interesting post brother. I myself was unaware of the number and set up of non Pashtuns that live amongst Pashtuns back home. Up until relatively recently I wasn't aware of the fact that many of the skilled persons tend to be non Pashtuns. We have less of this our areas south of Peshawar and we find many
Pashtuns with tribal ancestry who are skilled. Same with the "Khani " system which is prevalent amnongst Yusufzais-we haven't heard of it back home.

However I would still argue that this whole caste system is not actually a Pashtun phenomenon. Within Pashtuns there are no castes i.e. one group of people being above another based on occupation carried on through generations. The conquered natives, possibly already skilled were made to continue do what they were doing but then were not given the same social status as the conquerors, the genealogical Pashtuns.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Charsi Malang For This Useful Post:
Nekrofrost (02-25-2017)
(#15)
Old
Nekrofrost's Avatar
Nekrofrost Nekrofrost is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Nekrofrost is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 187
Thanks: 376
Thanked 49 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Default 02-25-2017, 06:04 AM

This is all interesting stuff. Thanks alot guys.
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
Charsi Malang Charsi Malang is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Charsi Malang is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 352
Thanks: 59
Thanked 128 Times in 100 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default 02-25-2017, 06:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
This is interesting. My family are Mullayan/Qazyan(of Turkic lineage) and we're highly respected so I think Mullayan are a bit different from the other ones. I should also mention that we're still fully Pashtun in our culture and customs although we do put Islam above Pashtunwali(which is something a lot of educated religious Pashtuns do anyway).

I have a question though. I've heard of another caste called "Miagan." They're the ones who are supposed to own land. What's up with them? Are they also not Pashtun?
My family are also Mullayan from many generations ago. My uncles tell me that we came a long time ago from another place in Central Asia, then on to Afghanistan, then Tirah and now on to our current location. Some people also call us Miangaan but we are not Syed and no one in our family have ever claimed to be Syed. I don't think any one of us for the past 300-400 years have been able to speak Arabic or Persian. We have never known anything but Pashto.

We have another medium sized tribe who have almost the same history as us and live with us, who started off as tablikyaan-lol looking at them you wouldn't think it for they are very hardcore.

I still wouldn't describe our Mullatob as being anything related to caste. Our qaam is Quraysh and Durrani mixed, and our kissab would be Mullatob.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Charsi Malang For This Useful Post:
Nekrofrost (02-25-2017)
(#17)
Old
Samandri's Avatar
Samandri Samandri is offline
PF senior
Samandri is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 2,070
Thanks: 668
Thanked 769 Times in 567 Posts
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default 02-25-2017, 06:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
I'm from Ziarat Kaka Sahib which is majority Kaka khel so that's must be why I was confused about them. But now I have another question. What is the difference between Qazyan/Mullayan and Miagan? They're both descended from saints of supposed non-Pashtun origin so what's the difference?

You should write something about these castes on your blog.
I dont know about Qazis, (there are Qazis of Peshawar but those are Durranis), it might be that your family are descendants of Qazis (judges) of Durrani period......Mullahs seem to be from many backgrounds (e.g one family of Mullahs in my area are Qureshis, while another were originally "Daman" and became Mullahs for better status)......this book is talking about role of Mullah in Pashtun society Islam and Resistance in Afghanistan - Olivier Roy - Google Books

Akhundzadas, Sahibzadas, Miangan etc are people of more or less same category.........descendants of saints and religious scholars
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Samandri For This Useful Post:
Charsi Malang (02-25-2017), Nekrofrost (02-25-2017)
(#18)
Old
Nekrofrost's Avatar
Nekrofrost Nekrofrost is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Nekrofrost is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 187
Thanks: 376
Thanked 49 Times in 40 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Aug 2016
Default 02-25-2017, 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller View Post
This is interesting. My family are Mullayan/Qazyan(of Turkic lineage) and we're highly respected so I think Mullayan are a bit different from the other ones.
Kinda the same in my case. My great grandfather(so was my grandfather till he moved to peshawar) was also a Mullah altho he was a pashtun who came from ogai(near mansehra) to nizampur and i think he was a yousafzai.

Anyways how often is it that the village mullahs sre non pashtun tho?
Reply With Quote
(#19)
Old
Samandri's Avatar
Samandri Samandri is offline
PF senior
Samandri is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 2,070
Thanks: 668
Thanked 769 Times in 567 Posts
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default 02-25-2017, 07:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charsi Malang View Post
Interesting post brother. I myself was unaware of the number and set up of non Pashtuns that live amongst Pashtuns back home. Up until relatively recently I wasn't aware of the fact that many of the skilled persons tend to be non Pashtuns. We have less of this our areas south of Peshawar and we find many
Pashtuns with tribal ancestry who are skilled. Same with the "Khani " system which is prevalent amnongst Yusufzais-we haven't heard of it back home.

However I would still argue that this whole caste system is not actually a Pashtun phenomenon. Within Pashtuns there are no castes i.e. one group of people being above another based on occupation carried on through generations. The conquered natives, possibly already skilled were made to continue do what they were doing but then were not given the same social status as the conquerors, the genealogical Pashtuns.
Any Pashto speaking individual is Pashtun..........but in the manner of Arabs, Pashtuns tend to give great importance to pedigrees , tracing it to legendary figure of Qais. Arabs still have "Al-Hindi, "Al-Turki" surnames among them no matter how much they appear Arabic. The founder of Rohillkhand state was not even a Pashtun tribe-wise but was a Pashtunized Jat and tens of thousands of tribal Pashtuns rallied around him for the cause of Pashtuns.....in the same way Pir Roshan (Ansari Arab assimilated into Urmars) was also not a Pashtun genealogy-wise but he launched a kind of Pashtun nationalism movement.

What you are saying, must be the case, that skilled ones were allowed to continue their ancestral profession while others were reduced to pure slavery. As Pashtuns detested adopting these castes so even the areas distant from India, like Durrani areas of Afghanistan, have also these castes in their villages. Also many villages must have hired and invited these skilled individuals to their villages, not necessarily conquered ........so this thing is intrinsic to Pashtun society. Even Waziristan has this system and that area has no traces of Hindu past.

Last edited by Samandri; 02-25-2017 at 07:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Samandri For This Useful Post:
Charsi Malang (02-25-2017), Nekrofrost (02-25-2017), Traveller (02-25-2017)
(#20)
Old
Traveller's Avatar
Traveller Traveller is offline
PF Frequent visitor
Traveller is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 339
Thanks: 209
Thanked 152 Times in 111 Posts
My Mood: Inspired
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Default 02-25-2017, 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charsi Malang View Post
My family are also Mullayan from many generations ago. My uncles tell me that we came a long time ago from another place in Central Asia, then on to Afghanistan, then Tirah and now on to our current location. Some people also call us Miangaan but we are not Syed and no one in our family have ever claimed to be Syed. I don't think any one of us for the past 300-400 years have been able to speak Arabic or Persian. We have never known anything but Pashto.

We have another medium sized tribe who have almost the same history as us and live with us, who started off as tablikyaan-lol looking at them you wouldn't think it for they are very hardcore.

I still wouldn't describe our Mullatob as being anything related to caste. Our qaam is Quraysh and Durrani mixed, and our kissab would be Mullatob.
Wow we're the same, also from central Asia and never claimed to be Sayyid. But our lineage is actually Turkic and our Qaam is Seljuki(from the famous House of Seljuk that once ruled the Seljuk Empire). Of course our kisaab would be Mullatob(or Qazitob).

Akhund Adyan Baba Seljuki, Turkish scholar who migrated to Nowshera during the time of Khushal Baba and Kaka Sahib(Father of Kakakhels), is our progenitor if you've ever heard of him.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Traveller For This Useful Post:
Samandri (02-25-2017)
Reply

Tags
luharan, mulayan, nandapan, nayaan, main

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




History of Pashtuns| Learn Pashto Online| Afghan Wiki| TheHujra.com| Pukhtoogle| Afghan MP3| Khyber.org| Pukhto.net| Tor_Khan's blog| Abdul Rahman Karim's blog| Voices of the Pashtun land| Pashto TV

Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
No part of this site may be copied without permission of the administration. The views, posts, opinions and threads expressed by members of the community here are not necessarily those of the staff and management of Pashtun Forums.