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Default 01-02-2017, 01:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Samandri View Post
There is no "sh" sound in ancient Greek and one word for distant regions and people has been pronounced differently by different Greek historians. So we are not sure whether Herodotus's Pactyan was exact the same word as original or not. Moreover Herodotus mentions two nations by name of Pactyan, one inhabiting Armenia, other adjoining upon India.
Not sure about the Armenian stuff. Can you cite something? The stuff about pactyans is clear, especially about being war like. I believe a connection is made with bactrians as well.

Greek doesn't have sh, but many languages don't have kh. If the sh was a factor, it would logically imply that s would've been used instead. Why use k?

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As far as "Pakhtas" (as well as related Bhalanases, Vishanins, Alinas, and Sivas) are concerned , they are mentioned in Riveda which was written in 1500 B.C and is mythological and legendary stuff.
I don't agree on your basis of dismissal. If professional recognized historians are connecting the dots, it should be assumed they took what you said into consideration. To a certain extent, we don't know how much of old literature is fake or real.

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The Arachosia of Pactyans corresponds to greater Kandahar and Sulieman mountains , and all of these areas are soft dialect speakers. Its very noticeable that hard dialect of Pashto is spoken only in those areas which have been colonized by Pashtuns relatively recently.
I'm not sure how right you are. There are references to Pactyans amongst gandhara. Even gandhara is considered to contribute to Pashtuns.

Also, what they speak today is not relevant. We're looking for original. Farsi has transformed over time.

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Kabul, Nangarhar, Kunar, Laghman, Bajaur, Mohamnd and upper KPK were colonized by existing Pashtun tribes in 15th and 16th century, and all of these tribes had migrated from Loy Kandahar and Tarnak region where soft dialect of Pashto is spoken. Even Afridis are not ancient inhabitants of Khyber agency, they settled there in Pir Roshan times, while Shinwaris migrated from Sulimena mountains and is actually a branch of Kasi tribe (who lives in Quetta)...the Safis of upper FATA and North-eastern Afghanistan is a branch of Panni tribe of Balochistan.
Can you prove this? Any sources?

That's interesting, but it's just talking about the differences in the dialects. Not proving much. The author says it's got indo aryan influence, but as native speakers, we can make our own inference. What indo aryan influence brought the hard dialect? Find anything that sounds similar in the region.
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Default 06-20-2017, 02:40 PM

I wish to begin by acknowledging that the language of pashtuns is Pashto, and the dialects are vernaculars in the sense variations of Pashto amongst sub-communities living in different regions, and therefore some words and phrases have developed into characteristics of dialects due to events in the history of each group.

With respect to Nokia Apridi's request to close this thread due to divisive elements amongst PF members, this motion has to be negated for greater understanding of the language of our ancestors and brothers. Knowledge for sake of knowing who we are and to know how we have come to use our particular dialect. Clearly some members are vastly knowledgeable or have access to academic resources, such as brother Samandri, who has always furnished evidence from local sources rather than from those of orientalists.

I vaguely recall a similar discussion (can't remember if it was Luffy or Master Khan) back in 2010, discussing Purity of The Pashto of the Yusufzai vs the Southern sheen Kandahari, highlighted that one letter sheen/kheen is pronounced as sheen due to Farsi influence in kandahar, and spoken with kheen in north east, clearly different sound reflected in different letter, as a pivotal clue to the original dialect.

Clearly it is not possible to label origins on one letter evidence due to parsimony, however linguists have bundled spectra of languages from Hindi to Norwegian as Indo-European (Indo-Germanisch) based on similarities in handful of words that are assumed as fundamental or 'proto-' words; the numbers and names of family members. 2, two, zwie, do, du // 3, three, drai, dre, trai // 5, five, phunf, penta, panj, panch, pinza etc and father, padr, padre, plar, pidar, // brother, brüder, beradar, praa. These are some of the handful words and perhaps the subject-verb order that links I.E. Lang group.

So I welcome some academic light to be shed on the matter of how Pashto developed, however I finish this one my original statement, all dialects of Pashto form the defining language of Pashtuns.

(On-on with search for concurrent Tareeno/Wanetsi dialect, apart from what's on Wiki.)

Last edited by torkham; 06-20-2017 at 02:52 PM.
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