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Default 11-12-2017, 02:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Iblis_Efreetzai View Post
You said most corrupt ....not "only evil people"

Sorry, but the days of fooling people by "looking pious" are over. We've seen too many Show-glass pious people who turn out to be wretched to be fooled by that. What else can you demonstrate than wearing a kufi and using miswak?
Wearing a kufi and thobe is itself an act of piety in its essence, not merely an attempt to give the impression of being pious to others. In the context of us Muslims, those who wear European style are the ones who should be looked at as actively and consciously being different. I do not accept that European style clothing is the norm or standard for Muslims, and wearing a kufi and thobe is an attempt to be different, rather it is the opposite.

The defining expression of Islam is praying Salat / Namaz. Every aspect of Islamic culture, lifestyle and civilization is meant to revolve around this daily worship, including clothing. European clothing is meant for a lifestyle where you aren't routinely bowing and prostrating.

Not just clothing, you will notice so many aspects of European lifestyle are like this. Even the setup of the modern standard house. It's bathroom puts the toilet next to the bath tub. An Islamic house would have a Wudu area for optimal and efficient offering of Wudu, a room set aside as a Musalla, and the layout such that it is easy to partition men and women when there are guests.
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Default 11-12-2017, 04:32 AM

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Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Wearing a kufi and thobe is itself an act of piety in its essence, not merely an attempt to give the impression of being pious to others. In the context of us Muslims, those who wear European style are the ones who should be looked at as actively and consciously being different. I do not accept that European style clothing is the norm or standard for Muslims, and wearing a kufi and thobe is an attempt to be different, rather it is the opposite.

The defining expression of Islam is praying Salat / Namaz. Every aspect of Islamic culture, lifestyle and civilization is meant to revolve around this daily worship, including clothing. European clothing is meant for a lifestyle where you aren't routinely bowing and prostrating.

Not just clothing, you will notice so many aspects of European lifestyle are like this. Even the setup of the modern standard house. It's bathroom puts the toilet next to the bath tub. An Islamic house would have a Wudu area for optimal and efficient offering of Wudu, a room set aside as a Musalla, and the layout such that it is easy to partition men and women when there are guests.


Now a days it is exactly an act of trying to pretend to be pious. It's an attempt at cloak oneself by exploiting social currency.. Even some Christian Evangelists have caught on and travel to Muslim countries dressing as Pious Muslims when they're actually trying to persuade gulliible Muslims to convert to Christianity.

So no, it no longer has that value you once had attached for it. The idealization you attach to it is no longer valid .... Now a days when we see bearded guys with kufis, it no longer implies that they're genuinely pious. That doesn't mean wearing kufi and thawb is bad, but it's been contaminated to the point that no one takes it seriously. You have to prove your merit by your actions.

And this is reinforced by the fact I know many black converts to Islam that wear Kufis and eat bacon. lol


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don’t try to be smart.
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Default 11-12-2017, 05:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Iblis_Efreetzai View Post
Now a days it is exactly an act of trying to pretend to be pious. It's an attempt at cloak oneself by exploiting social currency.. Even some Christian Evangelists have caught on and travel to Muslim countries dressing as Pious Muslims when they're actually trying to persuade gulliible Muslims to convert to Christianity.

So no, it no longer has that value you once had attached for it. The idealization you attach to it is no longer valid .... Now a days when we see bearded guys with kufis, it no longer implies that they're genuinely pious. That doesn't mean wearing kufi and thawb is bad, but it's been contaminated to the point that no one takes it seriously. You have to prove your merit by your actions.

And this is reinforced by the fact I know many black converts to Islam that wear Kufis and eat bacon. lol
As I said, from the Islamic perspective, wearing a kufi and thawb is itself an action through which you are building your merit. It is not the end all or be all. I agree that nowadays a lot of Muslims think piety is restricted to how you dress and that is quite superficial. Islam is very vast and dress is only one aspect of it. It should not be over emphasized to the extent that other expressions of piety are neglected. Everything has to be in moderation.

But the reason why nowadays dress is playing such an important role is precisely because the affect of European colonization which resulted in this radical change in dress and appearance.

Imagine, for instance, that one of the affects of European colonialism was that Muslims no longer paid much attention to the dietary restrictions of Islam. So while Muslims know that they shouldn't eat bacon, they don't consider it a big deal, and most Muslims eat pork. Then those Muslims who are trying to be more religious would be identifiable in their unique habit of refraining from pork and eating only Halal. We would have the same phenomenon where people like you are saying these Muslims that don't eat pork are trying to act all pious but I know plenty examples of such Muslims who use foul language (for example). Now isn't what comes out of one's mouth more important than what goes into it?

This is in the hypothetical scenario where eating pork has become the norm and you are singling yourself out by not eating pork. So understand my point from this perspective. Because Muslims have by and large adapted European dress and European habit of shaving facial hair, those Muslims who cling to the old practice are now seen as odd and making themselves stand out, which makes people like you get the impression that they are trying to be pious, when in reality it is simple going in the direction of decolonization.

Now you mentioned that you know many black converts who wear kufis but eat bacon. It is because they have been introduced to a type of Islam which emphasizes one aspect of Islam (dress) over another (dietary restrictions). They eat bacon because before they converted to Islam they had the habit of eating bacon. After their conversion, they got the impression that being a Muslim is about wearing a kufi, and that while eating bacon is wrong, it is more important to wear a kufi than eat Halal. Obviously they are wrong and need to be educated. Keep wearing your kufi but eat Halal also, enter into Islam completely, don't be selective about what you practice.
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Default 11-12-2017, 11:44 PM

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Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Wearing a kufi and thobe is itself an act of piety in its essence, not merely an attempt to give the impression of being pious to others. In the context of us Muslims, those who wear European style are the ones who should be looked at as actively and consciously being different. I do not accept that European style clothing is the norm or standard for Muslims, and wearing a kufi and thobe is an attempt to be different, rather it is the opposite.

The defining expression of Islam is praying Salat / Namaz. Every aspect of Islamic culture, lifestyle and civilization is meant to revolve around this daily worship, including clothing. European clothing is meant for a lifestyle where you aren't routinely bowing and prostrating.

Not just clothing, you will notice so many aspects of European lifestyle are like this. Even the setup of the modern standard house. It's bathroom puts the toilet next to the bath tub. An Islamic house would have a Wudu area for optimal and efficient offering of Wudu, a room set aside as a Musalla, and the layout such that it is easy to partition men and women when there are guests.
For your 'Arabic' clothing obsession(which is equally foriegn to you just as the 'European' clothing you dont like): If Islam was a person, it would whole-heartedly disagree with you.
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Default 11-13-2017, 03:25 AM

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Originally Posted by salman47 View Post
For your 'Arabic' clothing obsession(which is equally foriegn to you just as the 'European' clothing you dont like): If Islam was a person, it would whole-heartedly disagree with you.
Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.



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Default 11-13-2017, 07:55 AM

One of the groups of people that have maintained the medieval dress of old India are the Nihang Sikhs. They are easily identified by their blue gowns that are cut short mid-calf, which resembles very closely the so-called “Arabic“ Thawb.

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Default 11-14-2017, 12:38 PM

Wasn't Sikhism made from Islam+Hinduism(+ i think Buddhism)?
Which explains why they wear such a dress.
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Default 11-14-2017, 12:39 PM

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Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.



Religious Based Civilization ?
Are you high dude?
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Default 11-14-2017, 03:40 PM

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Originally Posted by salman47 View Post
Wasn't Sikhism made from Islam+Hinduism(+ i think Buddhism)?
Which explains why they wear such a dress.
Sikhism is influenced by aspects of Islam, but it is mostly an offshoot of Hinduism like Buddhism and Jainism. It falls in the category of Dharmic religions, not in our Abrahamic tradition. For example, they believe in reincarnation and cremate their dead.

I'm not sure if the dress of Nihang Sikhs is influenced by Islamic dress. If it is that would prove my point that such a dress is not alien to our part of the world.
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Default 11-15-2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ذو الفقار View Post
Foreign means foreign to my religious-based civilization. Also, when I look at classic paintings of Persians and Mughals the people and royalty are depicted wearing a garment that resembles the "Arabic" Thawb.



Actually that type of garment is haram, nothing Islamic about it at all. It is forbidden for men to dress like women. I think you have a serious problem in differentiating between culture and religion.

On a side note:

Quote:
The modern day formal suit was originated in Turkey around 1526 ace. Until this time the Europeans wore the traditional Roman unstitched garments that were wrapped around the body exposing hands and feet. Status was displayed by the amount of Jewelry one wore.

In the late 14th century the Turkish started crafting stitched clothing with designs and custom curves. The evolution continued and the present day style suit took shape in late 17th century which was greately welcome by the rest of the Europeans and mostly the British started actually wearing suits regularly. The British did not invent the suit, they adopted the suits invented by the Turkish.

Today suits are worn in every part of the world with few exceptions. Most renowned museums display the early suits with credt properly given to the Turkish for its inguinity.
You seem to think Islam is just an Eastern arabic/desi thing, You say Islamic and European as if Islam is opposed to Europe. Islam is meant for Europeans as much as it is meant for arab/desis/chinese.


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like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here
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