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RevolutionThroughReason RevolutionThroughReason is offline
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Default 05-28-2012, 09:56 PM

While Barakzai's argument about how the plight of women is being exploited has merit; , it doesn't discredit that women are facing a legitimate concern for their plight. The misuse or abuse of the the scenario regarding the injustices done to wome; does not negate that these injustices are real, that these concerns are genuine and the consequences are impeding. This is is mutually exclusive of the motivations for as Barakzai would say "war hawking".

And just because war hawking happens; is not in any way shape or form a meritable reason to disregard the impeding negative impacts the Taliban would have on women.

Last edited by RevolutionThroughReason; 05-28-2012 at 10:03 PM.
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Default 05-28-2012, 09:57 PM

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Originally Posted by shadowgoverner View Post
what a load of non sense.
yameenah you must be happy being a mouthpiece of the empire when propagating their partylines.
seriously, you whine like a big baby and jump up and down like a 2 year old having a tantrum, every time someone says a thing you disagree with.
do you have proof that this is propaganda?
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Default 05-29-2012, 01:27 AM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
While Barakzai's argument about how the plight of women is being exploited has merit; , it doesn't discredit that women are facing a legitimate concern for their plight. The misuse or abuse of the the scenario regarding the injustices done to wome; does not negate that these injustices are real, that these concerns are genuine and the consequences are impeding. This is is mutually exclusive of the motivations for as Barakzai would say "war hawking".

And just because war hawking happens; is not in any way shape or form a meritable reason to disregard the impeding negative impacts the Taliban would have on women.
I dont disagree that internal reflection has to supplement criticism of warhawking.

My issue centers around the fact that all of these articles generally leave a mental ellipses (...) at the end of the discussion and aren't targeting the place where self reflection and information dissemination needs to occur (ie. the region itself).

Why I think this falls into propaganda and basically fulfills the goals of the Red Cell Memo is that its target is a Western audience. A decade ago Afghan womens issues was but a blip or a byline and now, whenever the polls indicate a sagging of popular support these articles start to escalate in their appearance in western dailys.

Soldat actually provided a reasonable article not too long ago where a tribe in Khost I believe punished the local Taliban. No where does it mention that they needed NATO to do it for them. The point being, this is an internal Afghan affair that the Afghans themselves, rural and urban can regulate.

Once again though I agree with you about the conversation of rights related to possible outcomes. That being said though, why just women rights? Why not human rights? The country has evidence of abuse of all disenfranchesized parties from those near local warlords to children to inter ethnic strife.

Generally the evolution of rights in developed nations appears to follow the motif of:
Establish rule of law ---> Trickle down effect ---> The strngest segment of society secure rights and begin to dessiminate it.

E.g In the US:
Establishing self governance ---> Constitutional law applies to the land ---> White male votes ---> conditions become ripe for emancipation of blacks ---> Black men vote ---> Men support Anthony and other suffregetes to assist in augmenting womens rights ---> Women gain property and voting rights


Or in the Caliphate era:
Establishing rule of law ---> Muslims banish practices of jahiliyaah ---> law effecting men/women in terms of spiritual rights are promulgated ---> The peninsula is secured ---> Ayesha and others step forward to safegaurd the status of women (e.g. refer to hadith where she rebukes men for beginning to whisper of ceremonial impurities of praying near women or her own warrior status in the triumverate to secure justice for Uthman).

Kakar and Ghaffoor on the other hand are not targeting an Afghan audience but are instead attempting to (and they admit this openly) pull NATO into the equation.

The outcome will be either enforced Ataturkization style implementation of a subset of foreign laws or they will end up losing their desired support and face a reactionary element in society.

The phenomena can be seen in Turkey where blowback manifested itself and the military, full of militant secularists, bloodily subverted the aspirations of the people in the 90s. Even several decades could not avert the blowback effect.


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Default 05-29-2012, 01:28 AM

For that matter its highly immoral for Kakar and Ghaffoor to demand that Western powers sacrifice their blood and treasure for a goal that has no national security benefit whatsoever for them.


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Default 05-29-2012, 02:01 AM

a rural tribe who have arms and weapons of their own is a little different than unarmed women homie.
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Default 05-29-2012, 02:22 AM

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Originally Posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
While Barakzai's argument about how the plight of women is being exploited has merit; , it doesn't discredit that women are facing a legitimate concern for their plight. The misuse or abuse of the the scenario regarding the injustices done to wome; does not negate that these injustices are real, that these concerns are genuine and the consequences are impeding. This is is mutually exclusive of the motivations for as Barakzai would say "war hawking".

And just because war hawking happens; is not in any way shape or form a meritable reason to disregard the impeding negative impacts the Taliban would have on women.
it does not negate it but using the misfortune of others as propaganda is immoral. the afghan government itself has passed laws against women rights. In the words of malalai joya "NATO has pushed afghan women from the frying pan into the fire."
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Default 05-29-2012, 02:26 AM

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Originally Posted by khushal View Post
it does not negate it but using the misfortune of others as propaganda is immoral. the afghan government itself has passed laws against women rights. In the words of malalai joya "NATO has pushed afghan women from the frying pan into the fire."

That still is not a justification to shift focus away from injustices done to them.
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Default 05-29-2012, 02:35 AM

there are reports of thousands of female health workers being trained or working in afghanistan and more females being educated. over 2,000 midwifes alone.
i think unknownprince was bragging that the taliban allowed 200 females to study medicine.
i don't agree with the invasion of afghanistan but there are some good and many bad things which have occured there.
these women need to be concerned if the taliban might return to power and the government, whoever it might turn out to be, does not safeguard their rights.
you, who already live in the west, in safety, should be supportive.
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Default 05-29-2012, 02:40 AM

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Originally Posted by faye View Post
there are reports of thousands of female health workers being trained or working in afghanistan and more females being educated. over 2,000 midwifes alone.
i think unknownprince was bragging that the taliban allowed 200 females to study medicine.
i don't agree with the invasion of afghanistan but there are some good and many bad things which have occured there.
these women need to be concerned if the taliban might return to power and the government, whoever it might turn out to be, does not safeguard their rights.
you, who already live in the west, in safety, should be supportive.
they put the 2000 midwifes their so they could deliver babies that are born deformed from the depleted uranium used by NATO. how humanitarian. why are the afghans not supporting this?
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Default 05-29-2012, 02:48 AM

like i said, many bad but some good. the educational encouragement and assistance is not necessarily all from you americans.

take that up with your government khushal. the yanks, the brits and the israelis are the ones said to be doing this crime of uranium and d.u. bombing.

anyway why is a woman the loudest voice, speaking out on behalf of afghanistan?
where's all the big butch honourable men? apart from dr miraki, of course.
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