View Full Version : Pashtuns marrying non Pashtuns


Manzareh
11-18-2010, 08:42 AM
whats your view on this guys? is it right? or will this just water down our culture?

tor_khan
11-18-2010, 08:52 AM
^There are NO Pashtoons in the Midlands, UK?

The last time I passed through, sure, they weren't the majority, but I'd hardly say Pashtoons had no presence.

Where in the Midlands are you?

Are you allowed to travel?

P.S. This topic has been raised before, and ultimately, we are dealing with matters of the heart. The world, in effect, is your oyster.

Dreamer
11-18-2010, 08:58 AM
lol... Birmingham is full of pashtuns... but marriage to non pashtuns is no big deal either.... marry a decent person

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 09:09 AM
^There are NO Pashtoons in the Midlands, UK?

The last time I passed through, sure, they weren't the majority, but I'd hardly say Pashtoons had no presence.

Where in the Midlands are you?

Are you allowed to travel?

P.S. This topic has been raised before, and ultimately, we are dealing with matters of the heart. The world, in effect, is your oyster.



because of people like you, i specifically pointed out that this post in not directed to me its just an example, clearly you fail to read properly.

were i am there is no pashtuns, aprt from the odd illegal immigrants and 1 or 2 families, infact thers everything but pashtuns and iv moved to the midlands recently. yeh i do travel but whats that got to with knowing pashtuns? i dont go around to other citys getting pashtun girls numbers or getting to know people for marriage. people dont have t-shirts with "im pashtun get to know me"

P.S. like i said its not my issue. this is a matter of the heart, and for your information it may be oyster to you but i think marrying your own people is probly the biggest thing in pashtunwali, so in future get your facts streight.

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 12:00 PM
I have heard it's okay for a man but not ok for a woman. Weird if you ask me.

Nazieh, somebody said its the otherway around as in its ok for women but not men to marry non pashtuns as in pashtunwali the kids follow the fathers side. makes sense?

AfghuN_Diva
11-18-2010, 12:01 PM
^^ thtzz stupidd
cozz we r all muslims nd afta that cmezz woteva u r / pashtun or not
soo as long as the prsn izz muslim , itzz all gud
maa opinioon :D

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 12:02 PM
^ yea but in the quran doesnt it say you should marry the people 'like' you.

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 12:05 PM
I am very much against the double-standard present in our culture. If it's frowned upon for a Pashtana to marry a non-Pashtun, then it should be the same case for the men.

If Pashtun men start marry non-Pashtun women, that will mean less Pashtun men will be available for Pashtun women, thereby encouraging them to also marry non-Pashtun men. Plus, how do our women feel when they see or hear about Pashtun guys in their communities making non-Pashtun girlfriends and stuff? I doubt they see it as good in any way.

We have a very unique culture, language, and history, and to ensure that it remains that way in the future, I think we should definitely put our own people first when looking for a spouse.

AfghuN_Diva
11-18-2010, 12:07 PM
yhh buh i fnk that is suggestin muslimss
not frm whre or wht ethnicity u hve

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 12:08 PM
^ yea but in the quran doesnt it say you should marry the people 'like' you.

The Quran says that in the sense that you should marry people who are like you in terms of religion. It doesn't make sense to interpret it in a racially prejudiced manner. As Muslims, we are all equal.

roadrunner
11-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Why not? It's quality that counts surely rather than label.

roadrunner
11-18-2010, 12:54 PM
RoadRunner

Would you marry an Dark Skinned Dravid Indian from gujarat?

No, I wouldnt marry you

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 01:02 PM
^ lol!!

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 01:03 PM
M16 you need to lighten up, you seem to be a VERY neagtive person, look on the bright side of things mate

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 01:04 PM
The Quran says that in the sense that you should marry people who are like you in terms of religion. It doesn't make sense to interpret it in a racially prejudiced manner. As Muslims, we are all equal.

Who said its only terms of religion and not in terms of anything else? can you back up what your saying please

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Well I would like to disagree there.

Not all Muslims are Equal according to school of thought.

If we be logical, I dont think a Wahabi/Salafi will take a Shia as an Equal in accordance to Islam.

Religions of the world are just another form of gang mentaliy division, whereby your with us or against us.

It would be great to break from those chains and be one people saved from the sectarian non sense about gaining a good place in Paradise in the afterlife while we murder,slaughter our fellow people for the holy maker.

Yes, but Schools of Thought are man-made institutions, whereas the Quran was sent by Allah (SWT). According to people, all Muslims may not be equal, but according to the Quran they are.

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 01:50 PM
Who said its only terms of religion and not in terms of anything else? can you back up what your saying please

Well bro, look at it using common sense. Islam is a practical religion for all peoples. There are no hierarchies in it, and no boundaries WITHIN it. That is to say, if a Turkish man and a Somali woman wish to be wed, there is nothing Islamic stopping them.

Besides, what else would the Quran be talking about? Race? Wealth? Power? No man, these things have no value in Islam.

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 02:23 PM
Well bro, look at it using common sense. Islam is a practical religion for all peoples. There are no hierarchies in it, and no boundaries WITHIN it. That is to say, if a Turkish man and a Somali woman wish to be wed, there is nothing Islamic stopping them.

Besides, what else would the Quran be talking about? Race? Wealth? Power? No man, these things have no value in Islam.

If Islam was just based on common sense then we wudnt need any alums or schlollars would we. Are you a scholar by anychance? You might be but if your not you can't just derive meanings from your common sense and say that's what Allah meant. I never said the quran said you CANT marry some1 that's not your race, I asked wether the quran could have meant race as it does say marry some1 like you so it might be suggesting that you SHOULD

ayub
11-18-2010, 03:04 PM
a pakhtun marrying a non-pakhtun ...thats just disgusting, hideous...blasphemous....i feel so sick right now imma go punch myself in the head then drown my self. why

would anyone even think this?











:D

PFgulalai
11-18-2010, 03:06 PM
whats your view on this guys? is it right? or will this just water down our culture?

I am not in favor of Pashtuns marrying non-Pashtuns for the obvious reason that it would dilute out our culture. A Pashtun friend of mine married a Punjabi guy and her children now speaks Punjabi and the last time I met her, she was speaking more Urdu and less Pashto.Also,her kids knew only few words of Pashto.I definitely do not hate her for this since that was her personal decision.However, if each one of us start marrying non-Pashtuns, there would be a point where, theoretically, no Pashtun and Pashto language would exist in the world. Do we want this to happen? If no, perhaps we should change our thinking.For me, everything starts and ends with "Pashtuns".No, it does not have to do anything with racism.I just think that the young, educated Pashtuns have a much greater role to play in preserving our rich culture and language. Marrying a non-Pashtun does make a difference from this perspective.

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 03:45 PM
If Islam was just based on common sense then we wudnt need any alums or schlollars would we. Are you a scholar by anychance? You might be but if your not you can't just derive meanings from your common sense and say that's what Allah meant. I never said the quran said you CANT marry some1 that's not your race, I asked wether the quran could have meant race as it does say marry some1 like you so it might be suggesting that you SHOULD

I will just humbly say that we as educated individuals can use the Quran and Sunnah ourselves in our daily lives (for things such as marriage), instead of relying on the interpretations of scholars or others in general.

You are free to take the Quran to mean whatever you like. I see no racial biases in it whatsoever.

Shamaar
11-18-2010, 03:48 PM
Dear Shamaar are Christians,Jews and Buddhism not equal in the eyes of Muslims?

What makes a Muslim so special than anybody else?

Is a Muslim more special than Isaac newton who has contributed more to mankind than bin laden?

How do you the Quran was sent by God? every religion claims their book was sent by god but where is the evidence? All I see is words and claims but no solid proof nor creditable evidence of it being sent by god.

Science has proven many times that religion is a mere superstitious belief invented by mankind. In Quran it says shooting stars are arrows to target the devil, but science has proven that shooter stars is not that.

So who is right, God or Fact.

Religion is a Man made institution. It takes radicalism and terror to keep Muslims and other faiths practising, because we know very well what Islam And Shari at will do to those Muslims who leave the faith.

See every person as equal, regardless of their faith and beliefs and you will be respected in return and successful.

Muslims are not special people and don't deserve a special status amongst society, no religion deserves any special status at all. The Modern world does not work like that any more.

Thanks for your views bro, but I said nothing discriminatory about any other religions, nor did I claim Muslims were superior beings. I really liked mostly all the stuff you wrote, but I don't recall bashing anyone.

Dreamer
11-18-2010, 04:49 PM
marry who u want and stop following outdated customs :)

Sheenka
11-18-2010, 04:58 PM
this topic is repeating again lol

Rukhsana
11-18-2010, 05:22 PM
OK my two pence worth - For me personally its always better for a pashtun to marry a pashtun, mainly for language reasons, keeping the language alive is important to me ... however bad my grammer may be.Its also important that they are like you in intelligence.

Having said that its an unfortunate state of affairs that there are not many pashtuns who have both ... just observing some of the people on here there are a significant number of people who don't sit well with me. If I had to choose between a ignorant pashtun or a sensible non pashtun - i'd always go for the latter.

As for my view in general, i really doesn't bother me what the wider pashtun community do - i think good on them ... we all have our own lives to live and at some point its not about pashtun culture but whether you can live with that person day in and day out ...

Dreamer
11-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Dont see the big issue in marrying non pashtuns personally... people in my family have... they are very happy :)

Fahd
11-18-2010, 05:38 PM
So you would marry Bin Laden because hes also a Muslim?

When it comes to relgion and other ethinics, Culture and Tradition and blood doesnt matter?

No wonder we are in such a horrible state. If we stick to our own but show respect to others and respect their laws and way of life, i dont see any problem but if we promote this inter mingling marriages under the code of Islam then we will see very much big problems as we are seeing now.

Pashtuns are culturaless, Pushto has absolutely Zero importance in the world, our nation is zero in every field expect preaching of the afterlife and sin yet our nation is full of sin and dishonesty, to have our own nation and be established we need to establish ourselves as a people, due to our kings and rulers who mixed with Farsiwans and Punjabis we lost our identity a very long time ago, due to tribalism some of us kept our lineage but yet we are still longing to be a nation, but sadly due to confusion and marital alliances our nation is zero and will be zero until the end of time.
yeh i would
dame f f f :banghead:im man
delet the post !!

IamDZJ
11-18-2010, 05:54 PM
if i cared enough for a person with whom i wanted to get married and spend the rest of my life with then i would marry that person regardless of their cultural background and i will sure as hell not log in to a discussion forum and discus it with a bunch of strangers who happened to be born to a man who happened to have the ability of speaking pashto (or more) as their opinion would be of no value to me.
if i was a confused little ***** who took pleasure in using other people's religion, ethnicity or cultural background to boast about myself or degrade them in the company of other worthless low lives who have nothing better than being high on their own bs then i would log in here and make a thread and discuss my two penny worth of a concern along with other douche bags.

this is my first and very last post in this trashcan of an opinion box/thread so feel free to reply however you wish to do so.

we have the choice of making the world in which we want to spend the rest of our lives as indefinite or as limited as we want to.

kandahari ella
11-18-2010, 06:44 PM
^There are NO Pashtoons in the Midlands, UK?

The last time I passed through, sure, they weren't the majority, but I'd hardly say Pashtoons had no presence.

Where in the Midlands are you?

Are you allowed to travel?

P.S. This topic has been raised before, and ultimately, we are dealing with matters of the heart. The world, in effect, is your oyster.


tor-khan, if you're a girl. I have eligible cousins in London. =) But I think you're a boy. So no luck there huh? Actually, I know a few girls in London.

kandahari ella
11-18-2010, 06:45 PM
So onto the topic, I don't think there's anything wrong with marrying a non-pashtun. All that matter is if you love each other and see eye to eye on issues. Nada mas.

Admin Khan
11-18-2010, 07:56 PM
tor-khan, if you're a girl. I have eligible cousins in London. =) But I think you're a boy. So no luck there huh? Actually, I know a few girls in London.
Make sure his wife doesn't read that.

kandahari ella
11-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Make sure his wife doesn't read that.


Haha. Then I take everything back. I thought he was single. =)

Abdali
11-18-2010, 08:19 PM
There is obviously a problem mate. Our culture wouldn't exist anymore.

Manzareh
11-18-2010, 09:57 PM
tor-khan, if you're a girl. I have eligible cousins in London. =) But I think you're a boy. So no luck there huh? Actually, I know a few girls in London.


you need to hook a brother up! lol

Laila
11-19-2010, 12:11 AM
I dont have a problem with marrying a non-Pashtun. But then, I prefer a Pashtun spouse since most likely language and culture is not risked......that is very important to me. Since i didnt speak Pashto as a first language, i prefer someone who does.

My Kandahari grandfather (pashto speaking) married a Dari speaking Laghmani woman. Now the problem was, even though they lived in Kandahar, Laghman, and Kabul back and forth, my grandmother made my father's family first Dari speakers. But they still lived Pashtun lifestyle. Though my father's family speaks both Dari and Pashto...... But then, i guess its not such a bad idea, since both languages *were* and *are* appreciated.

My mother is Dari speaking Sayyid, so she has no affiliations with an Afghan ethnicity. So my father married a non-Pashtun. Though, preferably, a Pashtun was a first choice for my father. But since he proposed to my mom, another story.

Nokia_Apridy
11-19-2010, 12:22 PM
da title ba awal Kanzala wa...

Wos khu laka ...........hes parwa nashta...

Fahd
11-21-2010, 07:13 AM
hummm not a big case
but better to mary pashtun :)


but there are gona be alot of prob if u had children from non pashtun because they gona be hated by other
or not be loved like others
lolz i think u pplknow what i mean :)

Orzala
12-09-2010, 07:02 AM
It is so vital to maintain our uniqueness and equally important to continue our beautiful genetic form and essentially marry a Pashtun before seeking anyone else. It's a sad sight to see a Pashtun marry a non-Pashtun. Thankfully, none of my family members (even the distant ones) have married non-Pashtuns except one! She's so distantly related that she's practically unrelated. Anyway, she married a Palestinian. But the rest of my very large family have or intend to marry only Pashtuns.

I find it incredibly insulting when a Pashtun marries a Pakistani/Indian. They are the ugliest things on Earth and Pashtuns, knowing how beautiful Pashtuns are, why would you want to marry ugly ducklings? It's mind-boggling and especially irritating because you know that Pakistanis/Indians only want to marry you because you're Pashtun. They are leeches, to put it simply.

A Pashtun friend of mine married a Punjabi guy and her children now speaks Punjabi and the last time I met her, she was speaking more Urdu and less Pashto.Also,her kids knew only few words of Pashto.I definitely do not hate her for this since that was her personal decision.

A Punjabi, out of everyone else, she chose a Punjabi?! You might not hate her, but I certainly do.

Orzala
12-09-2010, 03:42 PM
What about Tajiks? Are they not ulgist thing you have seen as well?

They're not the ugliest but they're not beautiful either.

Plus under your Loy Afghanistan, would you prohibit marriages with Punjabis but allow Marriages with Mongol Turk Tajiks?

No, I would allow no such thing. Any intermingling is prohibited.

I could say the same, she choose a Palestinian, out of everyone else she chooses a Palestinian, be careful her children may turn into Sucide bombers lol.

I know, right. Tell me about it, I was equally angered but there was nothing I could do about it. Firstly, I don't know her and secondly I've never spoken to her. If there was any relationship between us, I can gladly say I have disolved it. I try my best to stop Pashtuns from marrying non-Pashtuns whether that be Tajiks, Hazaras etc and even Pakistanis/Indians.

Dude if your a Nationalist, you would not support any inter-marriages and you would certainly not ignore the problems that Pashtuns suffer including the dominance of Dari due to the sell out Afghan kings and Rulers.

I'm not making any ethnic minorities in Afghanistan an exception. It is our hospitality to welcome guests with warm tea and friendly gestures but sadly these guests have stayed for too long, it would be rude of us to shove them out.

Feroza_Banu
12-09-2010, 03:49 PM
this website is full of lunatics hahahahahaha... i swear i have not seen such bunch of loosers in my life!

some of you don't even deserve to be called human!

Dreamer
12-09-2010, 04:03 PM
what can one say.... plenty of backwards arnd here ;)

Dreamer
12-09-2010, 04:24 PM
I would marry a non pashtun woman and pashtunize her and have pasthun kids with her.

I guess it needs guts...

no such thing as pashtunizing.... marry the best person... ethnicity is of little relevance

Feroza_Banu
12-09-2010, 04:44 PM
da khro sara za guzara kawalai sam, ama dasai so called educated khalko sara na che zan ta insaan boli aw da khro na ham be aqla dei.

dalta zeni khalak da haiwanaano na ham bad tar dei, da kum zhobann(zoo) na takhtaidali dei... da dasai taleem tsa faida chei taso tarbia na larai....

pashtoon this pashtoon that, this empty pride, this is laughable, the last time i checked, we pashtoons have nothing other than our history, and our history was a direct result of our forefathers, who are gone, they are dead, they proved themselves on individual bases, what have WE done to be so proud?

zan na awal insaan jorr ka, bia pashtoon!

der da afsoos khabara da... der za afsoos kawam che da pashtano dasai haal goram.

i can't believe these comments i read here... "pakistanis are the uglies, indians are the ugliest people on earth, they are leeches, they are low"... bia bal ye wayee "tajiks are ugliest, turkic r this or that" der da afsoos khabara da... ka da kum besawad sarrai mata wowayee zrra me na khogigi ama delta da khabari so called taleem yafta khalak liki!

oh wait i forgot, the most educated people on earth have committed the most horrifying race based crimes all around the world... welcome to the world of the most uneducated educated people of the world!

IamDZJ
12-09-2010, 07:09 PM
i have a question from you guys..
why would a non pashtana want to marry you???
marriage is a dignified act that takes place between two people based on respect and affection for each other.
forget everything else, some of you here look at marriage as a super plan for world domination.
wanna know what type of woman will allow you to pashtunize her and the future children you might have with her in exchange for her abandonment of her own language and culture??? one who has no respect for her own. what type of a muslima has no respect for her own culture? the type with zero moral obligations. and that which happens between two people who have no intentions of respecting them self or each other is by no means a marriage. that is something else...

no self respecting human being wants to be married to some one who doesn't value their love or respect them as a human being than he/she who doesn't have the mentality to know her/his self worth.

the chances of a pashtana questioning you about the way you choose to raise her children is very rare due to the environment she herself was brought up unfortunately...to the 99.9% of you i suggest you marry a pashtana only. that is the only realistic way of getting your happily ever after. God help you otherwise.

IamDZJ
12-09-2010, 07:16 PM
I will marry a non pashtun chick...

i would like to see who is low enough to marry you.

Orzala
12-10-2010, 06:33 AM
I have problems with skin worshippers like you...

Not all of Pashtuns are fair, Pashtuns are hybrid....

you can find some dark pashtuns LOL

If you've read my other posts, you would know that I couldn't care less about skin colour. I've mentioned before that you can find all kinds of Pashtuns, so I suggest you don't jump to conclusions next time. My problem with Punjabis is not their skin colour but who they are and their parasite-like behaviour towards Pashtuns.

Well said.

Thank you.

The Shadow
12-10-2010, 07:14 AM
i know lots of Pashtunes(male/famale)that are married to non pashtues in afghanistan and outside..my cousine married a non-pashtune girl in New york and he got 2 children too.so whats the problem? we all r muslims...so if u r muslim so u musnt say it.

Master Khan
12-10-2010, 01:27 PM
I hate Mixed marriges, but I can nothing about it.
I only pray that my family don't do mix marriage because its killing our culture and language.

unknownprince
12-10-2010, 02:10 PM
I think its more to do with Economics. If a Pashtun girl is very pretty and decent but the family is poor, they may marry her to a Punjabi/Tajik family for economic purposes.

Our society back home has turned very status wise, meaning if your daughter marries the son of such and such, they would get in return financial help etc.

This was unheard of before the 40's but its rapidly increasing.

Personally, we can not dictate to others who they should or not marry, but as a statistic or as a whole, we must work to prevent it as our nation and race is very much weak and dependent on others.

Kind Regards

I have rarely heard of Pashtun girls marrying out. WHere have you heard this from??

Usually, it is the other way around- pashtun men marrying out, but pashtun women marrying out is a whole different matter.

I heard of a pashtun girl in California who married an Indian. Her father was very upset about this, and it damaged his health a lot. -- ANd that was a rare story to hear.

unknownprince
12-10-2010, 02:13 PM
The concern here has nothing to do with racism, but the survival of the Pashtun language and culture. The same goes for Muslims marrying non-Muslims.

Just making sure everyone knows that.

The Shadow
12-10-2010, 04:23 PM
yup i got your drift....and they r just ur opinion..and i told u my idea and opinion,but newly lots of of them(tajik&pashtune)ignore this custom.

BarakzaiAbdali
12-10-2010, 06:29 PM
Its interesting M16, you are caught in a chinese finger trap of the mind per your statement: "Dude if your a Nationalist, you would not support any inter-marriages and you would certainly not ignore the problems that Pashtuns suffer including the dominance of Dari due to the sell out Afghan kings and Rulers."

What does this indicate in regard to your support of that ever famous Bangash, Farhat Taj ANDERSEN? It appears you have quiet a bit of love of her work and attest to her loyalty frequently. Sorry buddy, you're caught.

unknownprince
12-10-2010, 07:43 PM
Its interesting M16, you are caught in a chinese finger trap of the mind per your statement: "Dude if your a Nationalist, you would not support any inter-marriages and you would certainly not ignore the problems that Pashtuns suffer including the dominance of Dari due to the sell out Afghan kings and Rulers."

What does this indicate in regard to your support of that ever famous Bangash, Farhat Taj ANDERSEN? It appears you have quiet a bit of love of her work and attest to her loyalty frequently. Sorry buddy, you're caught.

who is farhat taj andersen?? COuld someone tell me?? I tried looking up stuff on her on google, but found nothing.

From the middle name, i would say she is sikh???

Khidr
12-10-2010, 07:56 PM
Reading some of the posts here, one doesn’t know whether to laugh it off or actually be worried that such mentality exists amongst humans. Some of you would have to be the most bitter, insecure and racist people one can come across.

It’s awfully tempting on my part to assume that your views are (at the very least) reflective of a significant portion of the Pashtuns. However, there is a great discrepancy between the mindset of the Pashtuns that I see here on this board (and the internet) and the mindset of the many Pashtuns whom I know in real life.

If anything, you guys have given me access to a very ‘different’ but ‘real' side of the Pashtun character and psychology. If you guys are representative of even 1% of Pashtuns, then perhaps separation of Afghanistan into two isn’t such a bad idea.

unknownprince
12-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Khidr

MI6 is a proud racist, I think he even admits this.

I am not. I am a pan-Islamic individual.

My concern here is to ensure that Pashtun identity is kept strong, just as you would like to see the Tajik identity kept strong.

I am Muslims first. I wish it was just Muslim to tell you the truth!!!

Khidr
12-10-2010, 08:14 PM
Well, I couldn't care less if you go ahead and join your brethren in Tajikistan.

Don't get all emotional, you can not judge my views over other members here. Other Members here are quite defensive of their Tajik friends and most of the times they choose you over their own so do feel obliged.

Anyway, Personally, I will always keep a grudge against Tajiks of Afghanistan and these Persianized Pashtuns in power, also those Punjabi brainwashed Talibs.

How can one forgive the deceitful Tajiks(ahmad Shah Masood Followers) for running to Bhutto to stop Pashtuns becoming United?

You get my drift.

Do not worry, Once Pakistan is diminished, we will set our sights on total Pashtun Unification and that includes converting those Persianized ones back to their real roots.

Waziri,

LOL This may come as a shock to you, but believe me when I say this to you, I don't take you seriously. In fact I find you quite hilarious, also I don't have any "expectations" from you.

My post was concerned with Orzala and the other Pashtuns (whom I assume are Afghans?) on this board. The people from Jalalabad and Kandahar and Laghman and Logar, from those regions which I know many people from in my real life, and whom I thought I knew..

By the way goodluck with your whole re-conversion and unification and world domination and cyber hit squad n what not. lol

Khidr
12-10-2010, 08:23 PM
Khidr

MI6 is a proud racist, I think he even admits this.

I am not. I am a pan-Islamic individual.

My concern here is to ensure that Pashtun identity is kept strong, just as you would like to see the Tajik identity kept strong.

I am Muslims first. I wish it was just Muslim to tell you the truth!!!

I have had ample dealings with people who are excessively proud of their culture, Tajik and Pashtun. That's not an alien concept for me. In fact I too, to this day stuggle with the reconcillation of ethnic/cultural pride with my Islamiic beliefs of equal brotherhood.

There is a line between ethnic pride/cultural persevation and bitterness, insecurity and hatred.

In this board, sorry to generalize but I see that Pashtun Pride is more often defined by bitterness, insecurity and general hatred of other peoples*

* There are NOTABLE exceptions ofcourse.

Sitaara
12-10-2010, 08:28 PM
whats your view on this guys? is it right? or will this just water down our culture?
It is not wrong either, but we pashtuns dont like it. If for example my sister or brother marry an outside like indian or urdu-speaking pakistani, i will not like it but then i will get used to it. Each person has its own choice so whatever makes them happy.

BarakzaiAbdali
12-11-2010, 12:41 AM
It really puts you on edge when people speak out on your ISI proxies Taliban. BarakzaiAbdali, how much is col imam paying you? I am caught for what? You hate Farhat Taj because she puts people such as you in shame.

Dude, I am not concerned at all, what I am concerned about is ISI stooges such as yourself justifying Taliban and comparing them with Pashtuns, the same Proxies who not only open the doors to Punjabi/Kashmiri Militants for shelter when America threatened to place Pakistan as a Terrorist state, the same proxies who not only worked for Pakistanis interests but played a huge role as a deterent against Pashtun Unity.

You then come up all this mumbo jumbo about Pashtun unity, dude I have been to Wona(Wana) and I have been to Shumali Waziristan, I even got to meet some of Mullah Nazeers men at the Mullah Noors Madrassah, they told me quite clearly that they are PAKISTANI's and their War is not for any Pashtun Unity, I never met a single Talib even your own Afghan ones who spoke of Pashtun unity or spoke of a state called loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan, Not only this, your Father In Law's fellow tribesmen Nek Mohammad, praised and hugged a 11th core commander of Pakistan Army who was a Punjabay in i think Shakai, did you see the video of Nek Mohammad, the so called founder of TTP? do you know what he said, he said the tribesmen and taliban and the Mujahideen are Pakistans Atomic Bomb, and if anybody harms Pakistan they will die fighting to save Pakistan.

Dude your game is over,I am tired of imposters. The biggest mistake I ever made was not photographing Taliban and Pakistan army playing cricket in Rasmack, I knew if I was caught I would have been executed.


I have seen a lot of things in life but your insults at Farhat Taj are very much weak.

You know what makes me even more amazed,is that the same Uzbeks your Brave Afghan "Taliban" brought over to Waziristan to make profit and money, turned their guns on your civilians, and what happened to the Islamic Jihad? what about the Muslim brotherhood? why did they kill Noor Mohammad Wazir?

Its all a mess but do not paint the picture wrongly.

1. What the hesitation to use her full name? Note that the quote was verbatim all yours regarding your view of folks that marry outside and where their loyalties lie. I am simply pointing out that (YOU) M16 is answering M16 regarding Farhat Taj ANDERSEN.

2. Note in my prior posts, I have never said that the Taliban are optimal. I merely said that in the options of ANP vs Taliban vs Karzai vs Zardari vs US occupation, they appear to be the best of these options. ANP has dual loyalties and are 5th column citizens with support from Russia/India, Zardari, as the wikileaks has shown is an American proxy. Karzai is merely a modern shah shuja. US occupation is exactly just that, western occupation.

3. I think that issue is that you oversimplify things. Your view will have to contend with the biography of Abdul Salam Zaeef and its deep seated criticisms of Pakistan (recall his quote about how Pakistan could produce milk from a Bull etc). I won't requote here, but if you read my past posts you will clearly see that Winston Churchill referred to the Talib ul Ilms (or taliban) of his day in quotes. Other authors referred to how Pashtoons galvanize under the banner of religion when threatened by outside invaders. I believe you are hard pressed to show that the whole Taliban shura, much less the foot soldiers down to a man, are all lock stock and barrell in line with the ISI/Pakistan. The work of Zaeef shows this for the shura itself. Rather, I believe that it is a complex movement with some nationalists who oppose occupation, some folks with a score to settle because they are generally pissed off about some US or NATO soldier slapping around their grandpa or sister or something, some religious zealots, and some folks being paid by the various backer powers (Saudi/Pakistan) because their views align.

4. I generally do not disagree with your vantage point that Pashtoons are susceptible to being used and abused in the wars of others and rarely look out for their self interest. It also appears that you are wrong in regard to the Afghans not yearing for a Pashtunistan per the poll results:
" The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions)."

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/survey-few-afghans-know-why-nato-invaded/ (http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/survey-few-afghans-know-why-nato-invaded/)

5. You have yet to contend with the ground level reality: Your goal of an independent Pashtunistan stands no chance if the NATO Afghan occupation proves a success. If that occurs, and if Pakistan dissolves, there is little likelihood that the former NWFP would joint Afghanistan in open arms. There would be ethnic cleansing of Pashtoons by Pashtoons because the latter and former are both ignorant of their binding history. If by some miracle the FATA/NWFP joined Afghanistan... it would join an Afghanistan dominated by Karzai, who in turn is a figurehead covering up a government for and by Dostum/Fahim. Moreover, Senator Lindsey Graham has openly stated that he wants PERMANENT bases dotting the Afghan country side should stability grow. My friend, he does not want them in Kabul or in Mazar e sharif or in Herat... he wants them throughout the whole country. Next, should Pakistan remains stable and should the NATO occupation be a success your goal would be three lifetimes away and brother shall remain divided from brother by a borderline of US bases.

6. So now brother, tell me, who fights against Lindsey Graham's permanent bases? It surely isn't you (sitting in London) or me (sitting in the US) or Mehmud Achakzai or Farhat Taj ANDERSEN... its that nameless poor boy who saw his house raided, his dad slapped, his crops burned, who decided to swell the ranks of the only show in town that appears to promote a martial antagonism to western occupation. Its men like Dawran (today's CNN video by Refsdal) who were simple land owning Afghans that do not apppear to be wahabis, but found arms, organization, or strategy within the Taliban insurgency.

7. If in the worse case scenario, you state that the Arabs bought it down on us Afghans, you still do not resolve the dilemma in 6. Who takes care of getting rid of Lindsey Graham's bases as he has stated this is the goal of the US Arms/Security wing of the Senate.

8. I await your discussion of how you resolve these condundrums. You need to detail out how history unfolds in your version of ideal events based on the GROUND LEVEL REALITIES.

Toramana
12-11-2010, 12:58 AM
Barakzai Saib, please don't quote redundant, irrelevant articles as your sources..... That doesn't make your argument strong...

Moreover, I have recognized you...that one's that fought others war at the height of the Cold War confrontation as Mujahids and stayed as guests of ISI and CIA but now are living desolute lives rendered useless and entityless by the arrow of time suffering from identity crisis and seeing the chances of re-vitalization in Al-Qaueda truimph...such people are out of phase with time and will never have their dreams realised no matter how much indecency do they throw on Farhat Taj.

I know how violently did you respond when Farhat Taj and AIRA published their survey...You have gotten old and now should take some rest.

Toramana
12-11-2010, 01:03 AM
Whom to marry is a persoanl choice and basic human right. Ethincities and cultures are also not universal constants...they are mortal, mutable, relative, and changeable...No culture has some intrinsic goodness.... Pashtun culture wouldn't be wiped away if say a few thousands or hundreds of thousands marry out of Pashtun ethnicity...

It is a human choice ...not a Pashtun thing...

BarakzaiAbdali
12-11-2010, 01:31 AM
Whom to marry is a persoanl choice and basic human right. Ethincities and cultures are also not universal constants...they are mortal, mutable, relative, and changeable...No culture has some intrinsic goodness.... Pashtun culture wouldn't be wiped away if say a few thousands or hundreds of thousands marry out of Pashtun ethnicity...

It is a human choice ...not a Pashtun thing...


I see you and George W Bush have a common thing going for you... you prefer gut instinct to facts. You prefer, well, simply put, not reading factual info to evidence based practice.

I hardly see how a 28 year old American born and raised individual was a guest of the ISI or the CIA in anyone's war. However, I see what Michael Scheuer, the former head of the Bin Ladin CIA unit sees, which was a resounding red army defeat at the hand of a force that the world over is referred to as the Mujahideen. I see the facts written in things that you obviously defer reading called books, that note a certain individual named Mullah Omar fought specific battles, killed many Russians, and lost an eye doing it.

Once again, if you want to continue this line of argument, provide the AIRRA data. You have yet to produce it. The CIVIC link is above and contradicts Farhat Taj ANDERSEN's assertions regarding civilian casualties and who the folks on the ground blame. Unless you have something to contribute I think it is you that is antiquated and outdated, reserved for the period prior the development of the human intellect and capacity for examination of evidence.

Furthermore, this is a forum for Pashtoons, or so I had thought. Yet, you appear to shun the principles of Zar, Zameen, Zan. You appear to not understand that the knee jerk reaction of that quintessential pashtoon to a Bangash renegade, who sells her people out, marries a Danish Christian ideologue, and then returns under the guise of AIRRA is outright rejection of such an individual.

For future reference, why your aversion to referring to her full name Toramana??? I note that you purposely refer to her as Farhat Taj. Its almost as if that 1-2% of you that is still Pashtoon is crying out in agony that you have to reference a sell out who makes her bed, day in and out with a white Christian man. Dha Sharma Khabara Dha, Kam kisma Pashtoon yey saiba? Agha kisma yay chey kphal zaat, khpal khalq, au khpal nang dhey praykhwho. Khpal Shedzey dhey khersa key.

BarakzaiAbdali
12-11-2010, 01:33 AM
Here Tora Mana, join me... it feels good. Try it with bold type like this:

Farhat Taj ANDERSEN.

See, no matter how hard you try... you just can't get rid of it:

ANDERSEN.

Michin Khel
12-11-2010, 11:29 AM
Barakzai sahab you seem to be obsessed with this farhat taj anderson. Please divert to some other point, it is quite annoying to hear name of that muhtarma from you so often.

Master Khan
12-11-2010, 12:32 PM
why would want to remove khan, khattak, yousufzai etc from your name :)
e.g. from Khan to Butt lol.

BarakzaiAbdali
12-11-2010, 02:58 PM
Farhat Taj did a lot for the People of Waziristan. She is a close friend of Kamal Mahsud's family and she has wrote a lot of articles in defence of the people of Waziristan. My loyalty to her is of my Pashtun character, I can never betray the one who has good intentions for the Pashtun people


Great, Miss ANDERSEN is friends with a dum. Thats like saying George W Bushs views are validated if he was friends with Britney Spears. If I become friends with Sardar Ali Takker does that make my views more right?

And does good intentions include the fire raining down from the sky on to the civilian heads?

Adam
12-11-2010, 11:44 PM
Well your kids will be affected right? like for example if you Roshina Married a American African, I am sure your children will buy air max every year and eat too much fried chicken? Just kidding. Stick with your own tribes or other tribes of pashtun's. Marrying outside your tribes causes problems as alliances go the wrong direction.

LOOOOOOL air max and fried chicken yano

Roshina
12-11-2010, 11:52 PM
So, why is the title of this thread "Pashtunsssss marrying non Pashtuns" but the focus is entirely on Pashtun WOMEN marrying non-Pashtun men here?

God, I'm so sorry for any woman who is told whom she can marry and whom she can't. That's just really sad. Yet, men can marry anyone they want. But I guess if some people can live with such double standards, who'm I to say it's not good.