View Full Version : Why are Pukhtuns from Afghanistan so conservative?


Toramana
08-19-2010, 11:56 AM
Why most of the Pashtun members from Afghanistan on this forum are so deeply immersed in religiousity and an extreme conservatism? All the best, rational/objective, and enlightened minds that I see here are from Pukhtunkhwa whether Baygham, BehaveMasood, gulalai, Qrratugai, LewanayZalmay, Nadir Shah, Pir-i-Rokhan, etc.

In Pukhtunkhwa, I lived in a Muhallah where there were some Pashtun shopkeepers from Afghanistan. In the morning, when I will go out into the street, I will see them-with the typical Islamic white caps-holding long "taspai" in their hands. It literally made me scared. Looking at this, sometimes, the very idea of Pashtun unity repels me.

Please, this should not be taken as offense. I still have unwavering belief in the potential of all Pashtuns to rise above narrow sectarianism and tribal tendencies and forge Pan-Pashtun unity

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 12:10 PM
Following Islam is not extremism..because Islam is the middle path. You need fix up your dictionary

Toramana
08-19-2010, 12:21 PM
Tormana.

I would say that people like Akbar khan, millatpal noorzai, myself and many others are quite intellectual and rational and objective. Something which you might called rational may be irrational to someone else. Its all a matter of opinion. Supporting "western ideals", secularism, humanism, atheism and all other idealogies might seem rational and intellectual but its just a matter of opinion. What gives you the right to say or be the judge of what is rational and objective and whats not?

What you are stating is your opinion and I respect that but the chavunastic behaviour of so called "rationalists" and "enlightened" people is childish and arrogant to say the least.

The names you mentioned above don't seem rational to me except for a few.

The approach of almost all of them i.e., Pashtuns from Afghanistan here, is shaped by religion, which we know is "just a belief" where things are presumed and all knowledge and understanding of things including even matters of common-sense are considered to be derived from divine sources. As one can clearly see, human reason and objective truth acquired through experience/observation have no value in such a radically conservative thinking.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 12:24 PM
Following Islam is not extremism..because Islam is the middle path. You need fix up your dictionary

If you don't have anything substantial and meaningful to say, don't say it. It is not just making a claim. It is also to support it with evidence and argument. What is the punishment of an apostate in Islam by the way? Even if a person who has very genuine questions regarding divine truth is condemned to death in Islam. What kind of middle path it is?

*Mahzala*
08-19-2010, 12:28 PM
If I am not mistaken Toramana, you once said you were a strong Sufi. Are Sufi's not lost in mysticism, which undoubtedly, is a result of their firm faith? I don't agree that we think common sense is derived from Divine sources. I would be happy to see an example that proves this point. In saying that, I don't condemn rationality or objectivity, but when it is done by ridiculing Divine sources and commandments, that is not easily digested. And, if I may ask, what does it mean to be enlightened? I have a soft place for that word.

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 12:31 PM
I don't understand how you can judge the forum members personality and conservatism from behind a PC, but nontheless, there is a fair gap between love for one's religion and extremism. I do agree that we have a couple of members who potray themselves like beasts and are ready to give fatwas on killing of other members who don't agree with them but shouldn't you be more accepting to the fact that extremism exists everywhere, especially because you come from pakhtoonkhwa a place famouse for its unlimited stock of suicide bombers.

i dont understand why would a man's tasbih scare you? he wasn't holding a gun pointed at you. the people that worship alot, do zikr and are busy with a deed of khair, they are the most harmless people on face of earth.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 12:42 PM
A thing I noticed about some of the so called "rationalists" here is that they want change very quickly and seem quite frustrated with the state of affiars of pashtuns. They seem to assume they stand on higher "intellectual gound" and the rest need to catch up to them. The only way I can see us prosperous is respecting each other's opinions and becoming more tolerant.

On one side the religious extremists and pushing their agendas down people's throats and on the other side its the "rationalists". Both need to calm down.

Timbaktu, I agree with you to some extent i.e., some nationalists here may be desperate for a visible change in Pashtun situation but a degree of radical confriontation-on idealogical-level is inevitable for such a change to start taking place. One cannot be at the mercy of traditions and superstitions forever and must strive for a visible change.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 12:52 PM
If I am not mistaken Toramana, you once said you were a strong Sufi. Are Sufi's not lost in mysticism, which undoubtedly, is a result of their firm faith? I don't agree that we think common sense is derived from Divine sources. I would be happy to see an example that proves this point. In saying that, I don't condemn rationality or objectivity, but when it is done by ridiculing Divine sources and commandments, that is not easily digested. And, if I may ask, what does it mean to be enlightened? I have a soft place for that word.

Let me admit that I feel attracted to the kind of mysticism/panthiesm that is universally found in all higher religions. This is because I find it to be founded on more "reasonable" gorunds. Being a cultural Muslim, this also gives me a way to be linked to my Muslim heritage.

As for ridiculing the divine truth(?) and commandments, if objective truth and reason contradicts religious sayings, I will accept what is reasonable and obvious. How can I deny truth and keep on "bellieving" in something which is not simply true.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 12:53 PM
If you don't have anything substantial and meaningful to say, don't say it. It is not just making a claim. It is also to support it with evidence and argument. What is the punishment of an apostate in Islam by the way? Even if a person who has very genuine questions regarding divine truth is condemned to death in Islam. What kind of middle path it is?

I can support everything i say, whereas you cannot. You just go round in circles. If you wanna be a kafir, be a kafir. Islam doesn't need you. But when you are an apostate but claim to be a muslim that is where all the problems arise. You can make your own religion, go worship a cow if you want.

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 12:54 PM
weren't you , toramana, the one who claimed that afghanistan's pashtoons are not the real pashtoon, they are persianized and have lost their culture? now u are saying they are too conservative, and they scare you?...

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 12:56 PM
oh wait,,, who am i kidding. this is another thread aimed at creating disunity amongst pashtoons.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Toramana is confused, doesn't know what to believe....

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 01:01 PM
It is a pashtun problem wherever they may be located, this form of extremism i wouldnt say extremists in religion, but rather extremist in their culture.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:01 PM
weren't you , toramana, the one who claimed that afghanistan's pashtoons are not the real pashtoon, they are persianized and have lost their culture? now u are saying they are too conservative, and they scare you?...

I never said that. Let me repeat again I never meant that i.e., all Pashtuns of Afghanistan are Persianised. What I said was that some Pashtuns of northern Afghanistan and Kabul have become persianised. How can I say this about the hardcoe Pashtuns of Kandahar, Paktiya, Paktika, and the rest of rural-south-east Afghanistan?

But I made the same complain about some Punjabized Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 01:02 PM
Well complain about yourself first

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 01:06 PM
^

Its not creating disunity. Nothing will inshallah

Its his observation and opinion, we don't have to agree with it or take it offensively. We know what the real truth it. :)

I hardly believe it brother. he has changed his opinion about afghans one too many times. he dodges between calling us different names whenever it suits his purpose. in one thread we are extremists, in another thread we are too westernized and persianized...

I do hope one thing that he doesnt represent the mainstream pashtoons from the other side of the border... *fingers crossed*

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 01:08 PM
Toramana doesn't represent anyone except his own delusional thoughts

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 01:16 PM
I never said that. Let me repeat again I never meant that i.e., all Pashtuns of Afghanistan are Persianised. What I said was that some Pashtuns of northern Afghanistan and Kabul have become persianised. How can I say this about the hardcoe Pashtuns of Kandahar, Paktiya, Paktika, and the rest of rural-south-east Afghanistan?

But I made the same complain about some Punjabized Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa.

If this is the case then i agree with you... persianized pashtoons exist the same way punjabized pashtoons exist in pakistan...

when you refer to kabul and pashtoon's persianization, please be aware that you are only referring to kabul city. Kabul city is in Kabul province, which has majority pashtoon speakers. (off topic, but FYI)

your thread is seen negative by me and some others here because you have specifically said afghanistan's pashtoons are extremists. if you had said why are some members so conservative compared to others then there was a point to debate about. you can't label afghanistan's pashtoons as conservativ and extremists while labeling all pakhtoonkhwa pashtoons as 'enlightened', whatever that means. this is solely based on false generalization.

Do you honestly believe a few members you have named here represents pashtoonkhwa ? isn't pashtoonkhwa a breeding grown for extremism? think about it a little. or is that when you say pashtoonkhwa members in this forum you mean to say people that are born and raised in peshawar city (or a western country)... which again doesn't represent heartland of pashtoons as kabul city doesn't represent heartland of afghanistan!

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 01:18 PM
hmm

Admin Khan
08-19-2010, 01:22 PM
Guys,

give these oneliners a break for once. Sorry for interrupting. Keep personal attacks out of this. You are not obligated to respond. Its his opinion and he has every right to hold an opinion.

abubaker
08-19-2010, 01:23 PM
poor man is scared of tasbih lol

most muslims in this forums seem very rational to me, unlike some nationalists here who have been changing there stance on certain issues more then i can remember


so whats the titled of your next thread

incinerate all Pashtoon from Afghanistan

at least we don't call you muhajir or agha jan when come to Afghanistan

Roshina
08-19-2010, 01:24 PM
The people you mentioned, Toramana, are onliners. The Pashtuns from Afghanistan with whom I interact on a daily basis in real life are actually far more progressive than the Pashtuns from Pakistan. These are women I'm talking about, with the Pashtun women of Afghanistan being more educated (most of whom came here as refugees and settled here and created their own businesses and whatnot) while those of Pashtunkhwa are not.

That's not to indicate that I know most of them, though. I meet them at regular gatherings held here in the city where I live in the U.S. I find myself more attracted to the women of Afghanistan at these gatherings; I feel more comfortable with them, as they're more likely to hold intellectual discussions and talk about meaningful and productive stuff than the women of Swat, Dir, and Buner here. I'd have to meet many, many more to make a stronger case regarding who's more progressive and who's not for sure, though.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:24 PM
Hi all. Let me apologize to you all. Probably, we Pukhtuns from Pukhtunkhwa not having seen the devastations (as Pashtuns from Afghanistan have) of a war fought on the basis of ideology might be more rash in our approach. I have the same level of regard for Pashtuns no matter wherever they are from. How can an imaginary line i.e., Durand Line make us different from each other not withstanding a little difference in perception?

Being divisive will be the last thing I would be.

Also let me say that, for the kind of religious bigots that want to push our nation into further backwardness with their obscure thinking there should be people with an appropriate response.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:33 PM
If this is the case then i agree with you... persianized pashtoons exist the same way punjabized pashtoons exist in pakistan...

when you refer to kabul and pashtoon's persianization, please be aware that you are only referring to kabul city. Kabul city is in Kabul province, which has majority pashtoon speakers. (off topic, but FYI)

your thread is seen negative by me and some others here because you have specifically said afghanistan's pashtoons are extremists. if you had said why are some members so conservative compared to others then there was a point to debate about. you can't label afghanistan's pashtoons as conservativ and extremists while labeling all pakhtoonkhwa pashtoons as 'enlightened', whatever that means. this is solely based on false generalization.

Do you honestly believe a few members you have named here represents pashtoonkhwa ? isn't pashtoonkhwa a breeding grown for extremism? think about it a little. or is that when you say pashtoonkhwa members in this forum you mean to say people that are born and raised in peshawar city (or a western country)... which again doesn't represent heartland of pashtoons as kabul city doesn't represent heartland of afghanistan!

Yes, Feroza_Banu, when I mentioned Kabul, I meant Kabul city. And the subject of this thread was about some Pashtuns of Afghanistan not all and "on this forum" only. And when I talked about the shopkeepers, I qualified it with "some". Obviously, the same type of people can also be found in Pukhtunkhwa.

Generally, some Pukhtuns of Pukhtunkhwa and Afghanistan are more traditional.

Baygham
08-19-2010, 01:36 PM
Why most of the Pashtun members from Afghanistan on this forum are so deeply immersed in religiousity and an extreme conservatism? All the best, rational/objective, and enlightened minds that I see here are from Pukhtunkhwa whether Baygham, BehaveMasood, gulalai, Qrratugai, LewanayZalmay, Nadir Shah, Pir-i-Rokhan, etc.

In Pukhtunkhwa, I lived in a Muhallah where there were some Pashtun shopkeepers from Afghanistan. In the morning, when I will go out into the street, I will see them-with the typical Islamic white caps-holding long "taspai" in their hands. It literally made me scared. Looking at this, sometimes, the very idea of Pashtun unity repels me.

Please, this should not be taken as offense. I still have unwavering belief in the potential of all Pashtuns to rise above narrow sectarianism and tribal tendencies and forge Pan-Pashtun unity

Have you visited kabul lately, It is no different than Islamabad. A w h o r e house with w h o r e's and their pimps, if that is the definition of progress than better remain a 'muflis' (still wont become a mullah but that is another discussion).

Cross the Maipur mountain and you will see the same pashtoons all the way to Swabi.

The pashtoons are given two choices, the forces of islamists will kill you for anything, and the other side will ask you to become a dhalal or a w'hore before you are offered protection from the mullah-jan.

This immersion in religiosity is a survival trait. The ISI funded mullah stays away and the kabul/islamabad based pimps dont come calling either.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:43 PM
The people you mentioned, Toramana, are onliners. The Pashtuns from Afghanistan with whom I interact on a daily basis in real life are actually far more progressive than the Pashtuns from Pakistan. These are women I'm talking about, with the Pashtun women of Afghanistan being more educated (most of whom came here as refugees and settled here and created their own businesses and whatnot) while those of Pashtunkhwa are not.

That's not to indicate that I know most of them, though. I meet them at regular gatherings held here in the city where I live in the U.S. I find myself more attracted to the women of Afghanistan at these gatherings; I feel more comfortable with them, as they're more likely to hold intellectual discussions and talk about meaningful and productive stuff than the women of Swat, Dir, and Buner here. I'd have to meet many, many more to make a stronger case regarding who's more progressive and who's not for sure, though.

Qrratugai, thanks for the informative comment. What I said was limited to the situation on this forum. Pashtuns of Afghanistan are more traditional in the sense of Pashtunwali but then Pashtunwali also have got an element of progressive tendency (compared to orthodox Islam of some people here). Let me admit that Pashtuns from Afghanistan happen to be more accepting of modern values when educated.

It may be the case that as many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa have got exposed to ideological Islam so also a lot of Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa have had exposure to liberal-secular ideologies.

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 01:47 PM
Have you visited kabul lately, It is no different than Islamabad. A w h o r e house with w h o r e's and their pimps, if .

What the helllllllll are you talking about? We have families living in Kabul and u don't have an ounce of shame in you to stop from using such a derogatory term for people of Kabul?

Toramana, this is your enlightened member... Mubarak de wei...

we are ok with people that have tasbeh and are uneducated, at least they have something called "adab, sharm o haya"

Roshina
08-19-2010, 01:49 PM
It may be the case that as many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa have got exposed to ideological Islam so also a lot of Pashtuns of Pukhtunkhwa have had exposure to liberal-secular ideologies.

Yeah. And it may also be that the Pashtuns from Afghanistan (though now also many in Pashtunkhwa) have witnessed the harms of extremism, so they know better. Those who are still extremist don't typically live in Afghanistan, have you notice? They live in the (infidel) west, in fact! They're also a more younger generation than the older ones that completely reject extremism in all forms.

... Come to think of it, I think this would prove a great study for someone interested in studying Afghans/Pashtuns! Which generations are the most conservative ones? Where do they tend to live? Who do they tend to interact with? What reasons do they provide for their conservative or non-conservative views?

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 01:50 PM
There are extremist all around the world, extremists in the west as well..so to say exposure to this and that, thats nonsense.

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:54 PM
because we love our Religion. We have kept our Religion unlike the ones you have posted. Is there a problem if I quietly go to my room and pray?


it literally made you scared? Lag sharam waka what a way to further divide us. We are the scary religious type who literally scares you. Im still trying to put logic together on how an old Religious man scared you. IF a Punjabi would have said this I wouldve had disregarded but coming from a once respected members in my eyes is when it hurts.

This thread taught me a valuable lesson. Thank you. Hell no like Dazahrojaam said once. She was so wise when she said we dont ever want to get united with you guys cause you will mock us. Seeing how an Afghan would tasbeeh scared you I wouldnt want my father to scare you either.

At this point Id rather unite with Akbar Khan from Kandahar. DAzahrojaam from Jalalabad,Sangar from Kabul, Mahzala from Kunar or Feroza from Wardag before I ever think of uniting with you people again.

Hazaras and Tajiks call us Pashtuns as big brother. They take pride when those Kandahar people ruled India. When they ruled Iran. When they produced scholars. They talk pride in Wardags who were given presidency but refused and said let someone else have it I just defended my country. Those Tajiks would never be scared of someone with Tasbeeh. Its because of Pashtuns like you who fuel our tensions.


My dreams of Uniting with you people are gone. Id rather implement a border right now than to see atheists insult my people and my Religion.

You want us to unite with hardheaded people like Baygham who just insulted a Pashtun dominated province of Afghanistan? Keep the Baygham type people for yourself. We have no room for them in the motherland of Pashtuns. We dont like being insulted.

Hi AfghanPrincess, please hold on for a moment. I protest what I meant was that too much religiousity scares me (and this is true I assure you). I would never mock another Pashtun. I am a hardcore nationlist and Pashtun patriot. Have you not read the threads I have started here?

Assume for a moment that I have mocked Pashtuns (which is not true at all), there are many Pashtuns from Pukhtunkhwa here that have not done that. So it would be unjust of you to change your mind on such flimsy ground.

Please don't lose faith in Pashtun unity because one individual said something that sound to you inadequate.

BehavedMaseed
08-19-2010, 01:55 PM
I have also noticed many members from Afghanistan tend to be more supportive of ISI Taliban and Islamic Extremism.

We have members from Pakhtunkhwa such as BLS,Khyaal, Myself, Sher Khan,Nokia the great Afridi who tend to focus more on Pashtun Unity through Politics, Language and culture.

I think the reason why Afghans tend to be more closer to Islamic Extremism is due to poverty and the life expectancy ratio. Because the life of an Afghan in Afghanistan tends to be much lower, so they are told to follow Allah and led to think Life is too short and Islam only matters nothing else.

Plus there is the aspect of ISI joint production with the University of Nebraska of educating Afghan children about Jihad and Islamic domination of the world.

There is also the aspect of Arab influence, Afghans tend to be inspired by Arab savages and follow them.

Kind Regards

Toramana
08-19-2010, 01:59 PM
Yeah. And it may also be that the Pashtuns from Afghanistan (though now also many in Pashtunkhwa) have witnessed the harms of extremism, so they know better. Those who are still extremist don't typically live in Afghanistan, have you notice? They live in the (infidel) west, in fact! They're also a more younger generation than the older ones that completely reject extremism in all forms.

... Come to think of it, I think this would prove a great study for someone interested in studying Afghans/Pashtuns! Which generations are the most conservative ones? Where do they tend to live? Who do they tend to interact with? What reasons do they provide for their conservative or non-conservative views?

Qraatugai, I agree with you on that. Unfortunately, immigrants in the West happen to be the most orthodox. Pashtuns back home are conservative but in traditional sense. One can say they are conservative in the sense of Pashtunwali.

BehavedMaseed
08-19-2010, 02:12 PM
Count me in as well. If members like Maseed who have mocked us in the past. Baygham who just said Kabul is you know what and Toramana whom we scare ia mainstream at this point it has to be even abubaker said we are called muhajir than I also never want to unify with them. I would choose a Hazara over Baygham and his kinds.


Lets develop our own country and let them mock us.

Why do you guys always bring me in your rants!!!!

If your happy with Afghanistan where Pashto is treated by Spee gwal, then stop expecting us to hate on Pakistan and invent this Loy Afghanistan.

You will accept a hazara, tajik and uzbek over a Pashtun, proves my,Sher Khan and Nokia Afridis point and arugment all this time.

You guys are never true to Pashtun Unity, I know as like your leaders in the past, you guys will sell out Pashtuns as usual.

By the Way, the Pakistani Wazir guy was not me, it was a Wazir from the same Library University as me who hates Afghans to the core, and I saw the responses from so called Loy Afghanistan supporters mocking people of Waziristan with harsh insults.

Kind Regards

Have a great day

Toramana
08-19-2010, 02:17 PM
Hi all, I am extremely sorry because with this thread, it started all. There should be a little room for divergence of opinion and peception. What Baygham said meant, in both Kabul and Islamabad, progress is taken to be superficial glamour. He wanted to say that what we see in Kabul or Islamabad is not the "true progress", which is being rational, objective, tolerant and open-mindness to ideas, etc. It is unfortunate that he is being misinterpreted.

I once again apologise to you all.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 02:17 PM
I dont want to unite with pashtuns who think like this guy toramana or maseed. I will unite with any human being who has mutual respect for me. I will never befriend a pashtun who i find is evil and a disease to our society. I dont mind the friendship of a punjabi, hazara, arab, white american, african or whoever as long as i know they are true people, honest and not fraudsters using name of nationalism like some of our pashtuns.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 02:18 PM
Stop apologising, we aren't kids...

BehavedMaseed
08-19-2010, 02:23 PM
I dont want to unite with pashtuns who think like this guy toramana or maseed. I will unite with any human being who has mutual respect for me. I will never befriend a pashtun who i find is evil and a disease to our society. I dont mind the friendship of a punjabi, hazara, arab, white american, african or whoever as long as i know they are true people, honest and not fraudsters using name of nationalism like some of our pashtuns.

Loose the petty insults. We are no fraudsters just because we dont follow your Ali baba baba Pakistani Hamid guls and your pimps Imran Khans.

You complained not long ago about Pakistan. Redeemed your Pakistani Identity and be a respectable Pakistani.

What respect should we Nationalists give you when you call us beggers,fraudsters and other lies and misconceptions.

Then you rant about how bad and evil pakistan is and that your an Afghan etc etc etc etc but you will unite with Pakistani Punjabis and Arabs who slaughter your people day in and day out.

You dont deserve my time.

Kind Regards

Toramana
08-19-2010, 02:23 PM
I dont want to unite with pashtuns who think like this guy toramana or maseed. I will unite with any human being who has mutual respect for me. I will never befriend a pashtun who i find is evil and a disease to our society. I dont mind the friendship of a punjabi, hazara, arab, white american, african or whoever as long as i know they are true people, honest and not fraudsters using name of nationalism like some of our pashtuns.

Ahh, a Hizbu Tahriri with Jehadi mission to Pukhtunkhwa claims to be a humanist. And don't talk too much about Pashtun natiionalists. There are members of Pashtun Students Federation (PSF) active there in Khyber Medical College and may give you a good dusting.

BehavedMaseed
08-19-2010, 02:26 PM
I am shocked at how some guys here who live in a very comfortable life in the west becoming so defensive about Islam while their living under a roof of Secularism and freedoms.

Then they tell you to unite with Arabs and Punjabis, I suggest they actually go to Pakhtunkhwa and see with your own eyes what Islam truely is, go to the madrassahs where clerics molester little boys, brainwash them to do suicide bombing missions and go and visit those kids in Government sponsored rehab clinics, go and ask them what happened to them, how they were drugged and brainwashed by Mullahs who are supported by these Islamic Nationalists.

Kind Regards

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 02:26 PM
Shut the hell up, i have nothing to do with Hizb ut tahrir. PSF was involved in violence themselves and the jaamiat people always fighting, they are all a bunch of losers. Even in campuses, wat dumb ignorant people. Tell them go and die for their cause rather than annoying people while they want to study

BEING a friend has nothing to do with unity MASEED...look and read english properly. Did i say unite with Punjab???

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 02:32 PM
Why are you guys beating up the wrong bush?

You talk about Islam and always against it. When somebody tries to point u in the right direction by saying follow Islam, that is something positive. But you cannot tell me then oh some so-called islamist raped a girl, so we will reject Islam. Man you get pashtun nationalists raping boys and sodomising, bacha baazan...and so on.

If Islam was followed there would be no bacha baaz, they would be severely punished for their crimes. If people followed Islam there would be no zulm. Don't tell me about groups which did zulm, i am talking about a religion derived from scriptures and actions of Prophet (SAW), dont talk to me about muslims or saudi arabia, that has nothing to do with Islam, coz some muslim follow islam and some dont.

Converted muslims in the west, they used to drink, go clubbing, drug addicts and so on. They used to destroy their families life, involved in crime. The moment they converted to Islam they became peaceful people and they would respect their parents and so on. THIS IS ISLAM!!

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 02:38 PM
the kaafirs here make it sound like Pashtunkhwa is a brothel of socialist alcoholics and Afhanistan is a madrassah.

Actually, both lar & Bar are equally religious and pious. The only odd ones are these apostates and nihilists who use Pashtunforums to destroy the image of Pashtuns and make us look as nihilist apostates and materialists.

Feroza_Banu
08-19-2010, 03:02 PM
I think the reason why Afghans tend to be more closer to Islamic Extremism is due to poverty and the life expectancy ratio. Because the life of an Afghan in Afghanistan tends to be much lower, so they are told to follow Allah and led to think Life is too short and Islam only matters nothing else.



eh? data gora!...

could you say anything more meaningless than this? yes afghanistan is poor and oh pashtoonkhwa is a heaven of riches and prosperity... I won't stoop down to your level to mock the poverty and lifestyle of pashtoonkhwa people but you should get the point...

yes afghans die easily and have short life expectancy ratio, have you read the news lately about pashtoonkhwa, and the death rate there? this isn't something glorious to point out. instead of feeling sad or remorse for the conditions of afghans in afghanistan who have sacrified their whole being for afghanistan and its ghairat, you mock them?

wah wah... good job...

Baygham
08-19-2010, 03:38 PM
Hi all, I am extremely sorry because with this thread, it started all. There should be a little room for divergence of opinion and peception. What Baygham said meant, in both Kabul and Islamabad, progress is taken to be superficial glamour. He wanted to say that what we see in Kabul or Islamabad is not the "true progress", which is being rational, objective, tolerant and open-mindness to ideas, etc. It is unfortunate that he is being misinterpreted.

I once again apologise to you all.

Thank you again for clarifying what I said.

I once told a pashtoon from pakhtunkhwa who was the son of a very corrupt govt guy (now a politician) that he should not try to defend his father who is a pimp (he literally is - with a brothel in peshawar), and instead forge his own way forward as an educated, rational pashtoon and help his peaple.

Two weeks later he called me to come over as he has something important to share, I went over and he said, "well in the last two weeks I did some investigations of my own and found out that your father was a 'marwasi' and a lunatic". I said 'OK' good to know.

He did not get my point at all. And neighter have you guys.

AS far as unity is concerned, the ones in Kabul and islamabad fear such things, I am already united with my pashtoon brothers (pashtoons between east of Maiper and west of indus). even the talib is a brother, once his ISI shah-rug is cut. rakagoo ba warsara.

BLS_1919v2.0
08-19-2010, 04:13 PM
Pashtuns as a whole are very conservative people....if you take away the urban areas (the few that we have), then Pashtuns are a very conservative people, both as a whole and relative to the nations around us. Look at the tribal areas, tribal agencies, villages all over Pashtunkhwa or Afghanistan..overall a very conservative group.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 04:34 PM
I've met hundreds of displaced afghans and through my experience I can tell you that even a common afghan is much more tolerant and humble than the common man of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Besides, these displaced afghans are highly intelligent, open minded, honest and extrovert in their outlook. Such qualities are deeply lacking within the people of my Khyber Pakhtunkwha (the reason might be our prolonged slavery), while the people of Southern Pakhtunkhtunwa are an exception. Our so-called educated class is highly arrogant and incompetent as compared to the literate class of Azad Afghanistan.

BLS_1919v2.0
08-19-2010, 04:53 PM
I've met hundreds of displaced afghans and through my experience I can tell you that even a common afghan is much more tolerant and humble than the common man of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Besides, these displaced afghans are highly intelligent, open minded, honest and extrovert in their outlook. Such qualities are deeply lacking within the people of my Khyber Pakhtunkwha (the reason might be our prolonged slavery), while the people of Southern Pakhtunkhtunwa are an exception. Our so-called educated class is highly arrogant and incompetent as compared to the literate class of Azad Afghanistan.

Khyaal saib this is beyond the point. I mean as a nation we have some people who are very religious and some who are not. On a whole Pashtuns as a nation are conservative...this is a fact no matter how we slice it (be it north, south, east or west). What surprised me about this topic was that some of our members instead of answering in a calm manner jumped the gun and made it a Pashtunkhwa v Afghanistan debate. Or we don't want to unite with because of x,y,z members....this is pretty fallacious stand at best and shows some thin skin from our part. Little things are triggering people to say very reactionary statements. Is this how weak their idea of unity is? That they can't see beyond the opinion of one person and see the importance of unity or the future of the region.

Khyber Pashtunkhwa is dormant not really due to slavery but more of their position is in a limbo. There is a group of the educated as you have noticed, are hawaeee and see their future within Pakistan. So this gives them an idea that they are actually play makers in the state, when in fact the opposite is the case. Best case example are the likes of Nighat orakzai.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 05:07 PM
BLS! You are completely right but what I mean to say is that our prolonged slavery has affected our mental faculties as well as our attitudes and it is quite understandable for the people of Azad Afghanistan when we happen to talk to them. I felt pleasantly surprised when I first met people from Azad Afghanistan.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 05:15 PM
BLS! You are completely right but what I mean to say is that our prolonged slavery has affected our mental faculties as well as our attitudes and it is quite understandable for the people of Azad Afghanistan when we happen to talk to them. I felt pleasantly surprised when I first met people from Azad Afghanistan.
yes, you are right. You have a slave mentality. You like slavery so much that you promote slavery for Afghanistan by supporting America.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 05:28 PM
yes, you are right. You have a slave mentality. You like slavery so much that you promote slavery for Afghanistan by supporting America.

You have become cynic and thus unable to differentiate between friends and foes.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 05:37 PM
@ Sangara! I'm honestly telling you that in Western countries like Holland, USA, England etc. you could live as a devout muslim or an honest person, but in Pakistan you and your predecessors will lose either or both of the qualities, that's why we support US presence for a while as compared to the eternal servitude of the Pakis.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 05:39 PM
@ Sangara! I'm honestly telling you that in Western countries like Holland, USA, England etc. you could live as a devout muslim or an honest person, but in Pakistan you and your predecessors will lose either or both of the qualities, that's why we support US presence for a while as compared to the eternal servitude of the Pakis.
well, you think. Thats of no meaning to me. Since I live here. And I know from first hand experience.

Of course Pakistan is corrupting. Its because its a secular fascist state. Where government supports drug and sex industry.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 05:42 PM
You have become cynic and thus unable to differentiate between friends and foes.
cynic means like a dog.Cynicus was a Greek philosopher who wanted to live like a dog without any morality. He rejected all social conventions.

i am not cynical. In fact, being like a dog is when one desires to have invaders and crusaders dominating you.

My friends are people of quran and sunnah. People who stand up against injustice and people who revive Islam in their heart, their home and their community.

People who promote virtue and prevent vice. People who oppose taghoot. And people who are steadfast on the path of allah.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 05:46 PM
look sangara! Cynic means extremely skeptic. You quoted the etymological meaning of the word.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 05:51 PM
look sangara! Cynic means extremely skeptic. You quoted the etymological meaning of the word.
i am a radical fundamentalist. I like to go straight to the root of things.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 06:00 PM
i am a radical fundamentalist. I like to go straight to the root of things.

lol. Now I got it. :smile1:

PFgulalai
08-19-2010, 07:30 PM
Members like Gulalai,Qrratugai, Baygham and Maseed do not have the guts to say what they say here in their own villages. I would challenge them to go to Peshawar and say "Allah does not exist" Pashtuns are known to be super religious. Pashtun jaaney namaz jaaney. That is what we are famous for. No offence to the above mentioned members but what they are saying here they can only say here or the west. In Pashtunkhwa a traditional naswar chewing Pashtun would chop their head off.

FYI Shlombay:
-West has nothing to do with my beliefs.Period.
-PF is not the only place to bear the brunt of my "irrationality" (as you called it) and that Pekhawar for a very long time has been tolerant to my views until recently when your talibans came and tried to Arab-inize us.
-Yes, Pashtuns are super religious and that led them to extremisim and that is just one another reason besides several others reasons for their plight today.Congratualtions!!you have just won bonus points for coming up with that conlusion about Pashtuns. However, what you do not know is the difference between religious extremism and cultural conservatism. While you talk about the former, I am the proponent of the latter.Hence, you can separate the muslim from Pashtun, but not the "Pashtun" from Pashtun. By no standards, whatsoever, would I ever consider myself less Pashtana than you!!!
-Yes, again they are super religious and they will execute me but what is so "splendid" about it that makes you so proudful about that? Ain't you the same person who in the other thread made a pompous proclamation about the democratic values of USA? I find it highly self-contradictory that on one hand, you are reaping big benefits from the western secularism (considering the fact that you can practice your belief system)and on the other hand, you do not appreciate it when a Pashtun will talk about it in Kyber-Pakhtunkhwa or Afghanistan, or on PF.I find it highly hypocritical.

Shayesta
08-19-2010, 08:12 PM
All the best, rational/objective, and enlightened minds that I see here are from Pukhtunkhwa whether Baygham, BehaveMasood, gulalai, Qrratugai, LewanayZalmay, Nadir Shah, Pir-i-Rokhan, etc.
Dear Toramana, definite rational, objective and enlightened minds?


Please, this should not be taken as offense. I still have unwavering belief in the potential of all Pashtuns to rise above narrow sectarianism and tribal tendencies and forge Pan-Pashtun unity
Your opinion is an opinion. One may agree with you, another might not. Pekhawris I met in Jalalabad where also complaining about people of Pekhawer and showed their disappointment in people of Pekhawer, but that doesn't mean every single Pukhtoon is disappointed in them. Yes, it is sad if a Pukhtoon makes a subject about Pukhtoons on other side of the border, and that also while his own 'side' is no different but yet being ignored. Unity comes with respecting those Pukhtoons no matter how they are, and feel comfortable around them. Being scared of them itself is a wrong start.

Toramana, this is your enlightened member... Mubarak de wei... we are ok with people that have tasbeh and are uneducated, at least they have something called "adab, sharm o haya"
LOL. :P

We scare them they call us mahajir while we hug them when they come to Kandahar. We go and get them tea and as poor as we are we make sure they are full and sleep well. But them? They say we scare them and we are extremists.

Do you mind not exaggerating like this? If you welcome them with open arms, then try to remember how Pakhtunkhwa also welcomed us with open arms? When my family used to visit Swat in summers and they used to get stuck in some village, then at least one family was prepared to empty their house for my family so they could sleep in peace! Even people of Pekhawer used to feel offend when I used to ask them whether they are Pakistani or Afghan. They used to reply, 'If you consider yourself an Afghan then so do we, and if you consider yourself a Pakistan then so do we because before that we are Pukhtoons'. Don't take Toramana's words to your heart to the extend it insults all the generosity and kindness we got from Pakhtunkhwa all those decades.

I have also noticed many members from Afghanistan tend to be more supportive of ISI Taliban and Islamic Extremism.
Wow, your knowledge is weaker than I thought!


We have members from Pakhtunkhwa such as BLS,Khyaal, Myself, Sher Khan,Nokia the great Afridi who tend to focus more on Pashtun Unity through Politics, Language and culture.
Hold it, hold it, hold it right there! You, Sher Khan and Apriday? The very same you who has been banned a million times because you couldn't get enough of insulting Afghans? The very same Sher Khan who doesn't even agree with the term 'Afghan' let alone 'Afghan unity'? The very same Apriday to whom you will say 'senga ye' and he will answer 'Parsiwanan murdabad'? Oh puh-lease!


There is also the aspect of Arab influence, Afghans tend to be inspired by Arab savages and follow them.

Ding dong!; Arabs are your country's friends, not ours. Remember?


If your happy with Afghanistan where Pashto is treated by Spee gwal, then stop expecting us to hate on Pakistan and invent this Loy Afghanistan.
Spee gwal ya de khre gwal, at least we can count in our language and can proudly say our own language is a national and first language in our country which is compulsary to each and every student in our country. What about you? And which Afghan told you to hate Pakistan, ha? Show me the threads where Afghans will tell you to hate Pakistan, and in return I will show you hundreds of threads where my 'friends' on other side of the border do nothing else but bash, lower and criticize people of Afghanistan; May they be Pukhtoons, may they be not!


You will accept a hazara, tajik and uzbek over a Pashtun, proves my,Sher Khan and Nokia Afridis point and arugment all this time.
Have you even met a proper non-Pukhtoon Afghan? No, you haven't because they ain't used to criticize others; They rather take actions instead of crying like a bunch of moaners.


You guys are never true to Pashtun Unity, I know as like your leaders in the past, you guys will sell out Pashtuns as usual.
Oh jeez, says the one who was on a Punjabi-slavery mission when sent as Taliban to Afghanistan to disunite people of Afghanistan and trust in Afghanistan! You are the sell-out here, not us.


By the Way, the Pakistani Wazir guy was not me, it was a Wazir from the same Library University as me who hates Afghans to the core, and I saw the responses from so called Loy Afghanistan supporters mocking people of Waziristan with harsh insults.

LOL, you are on one hand talking of unity and on other hand you are friends with people against the unity of Pukhtoons? ROFL, talk of contradiction! And about Waziris, I have only and only heard Pakistanis call Waziris terrorists, wife-sellers and cowards and I dare you to find an Afghan with such a mind as well because majority Afghans don't even know who Waziris are!

but you will unite with Pakistani Punjabis and Arabs who slaughter your people day in and day out.
Tell those your fellow Pukhtoons from Pakhtunkhwa who served ISI before, who are serving ISI now, who form second largest group of the Pakistani army, who transformed into Taliban in Swat one day and into Pakistani soldier the other day, who bombed his own Pakhtunkhwa because his master home Punjab will get the money for it, etcetera.

PFgulalai
08-19-2010, 08:24 PM
Gulalai
I am scared of another I am quitting thread so Id rather not respond to your post. As much I have an answer to your post Id rather keep it to myself. I dont want more members announcing leaves.

Thats all I will say.

Dear Shlombay,

I hope you are doing well.
Lol...I am waiting for your answer.
Thanks in advance,
gulalai

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 08:26 PM
Dear sister Shayesta, please do not pay attention to these people. They are evil people who shout unity of pashtuns but are actually insulting pashtuns from Afghanistan and the religion of all Pashtuns.

They are a mockery of their own silly Nationalist cause.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 08:35 PM
shaba shab! tala hum moqa pa guto daraghla che zra rabande spak kre.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 08:42 PM
shaba shab! tala hum moqa pa guto daraghla che zra rabande spak kre.
zma zra ke boj nishta. pa de che mug alhamdulilah par haqq yu. Mug khalk ghulamai aw kufr na di balali.

Da kar kho de stasi de nashnalayano kar de pa PF ke.

Boj kho de nashnalyano pa zruno ke dai che de internet aw de bayan de azadey sekha na jayeza estefadah akhli aw zemug per deen aw imaan pore malande wahi.

Da de stasi malgari di che delta ghwari khpel zruna spak kri. Hase kho ham spak khalk di.

Roshina
08-19-2010, 08:44 PM
So, can someone explain to us what exactly anything has to do with people who speak up and say things boldly that they would not be allowed to say in traditional Pukhtun community?

Hello?! That's one of the many reasons we consider the internet a blessing! We can say whatEVER is on our mind without being killed for it (well, yet anyway). What exactly are you trying to prove? That we're not typical religious Pukhtuns? Well, congrats for finally establishing that yourself!

And, yes, recognize that we're a minority, being not only anti-Taliban but also pro-reason and pro-intellect. But so what?

Also, you may kill the person -- kill us all you want, and I'm totally okay with that -- but you cannot kill our ideas. If we don't speak up, others like us will speak up when they have a chance. If they're more bold than we are, they'll FIGHT to have a chance to speak up and risk their lives.

So, yeah, what's with this whole "go speak your thoughts in Pukhtunkhwa" deal? I'm sitting here thinking, "Um, okay, what?" Your telling us over and over that we're a minority doesn't mean anything; we already know that, AND we're fine with that. At least we're able to connect with like-minded people (although I'm not all that into being around people who think like me necessarily, it's always a pleasure sharing your ideas with people who actually understand them) and are able to speak up so that others can hear us, even if they don't like what we say.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 08:55 PM
So, can someone explain to us what exactly anything has to do with people who speak up and say things boldly that they would not be allowed to say in traditional Pukhtun community?

Hello?! That's one of the many reasons we consider the internet a blessing! We can say whatEVER is on our mind without being killed for it (well, yet anyway). What exactly are you trying to prove? That we're not typical religious Pukhtuns? Well, congrats for finally establishing that yourself!

And, yes, recognize that we're a minority, being not only anti-Taliban but also pro-reason and pro-intellect. But so what?

Also, you may kill the person -- kill us all you want, and I'm totally okay with that -- but you cannot kill our ideas. If we don't speak up, others like us will speak up when they have a chance. If they're more bold than we are, they'll FIGHT to have a chance to speak up and risk their lives.

So, yeah, what's with this whole "go speak your thoughts in Pukhtunkhwa" deal? I'm sitting here thinking, "Um, okay, what?" Your telling us over and over that we're a minority doesn't mean anything; we already know that, AND we're fine with that. At least we're able to connect with like-minded people (although I'm not all that into being around people who think like me necessarily, it's always a pleasure sharing your ideas with people who actually understand them) and are able to speak up so that others can hear us, even if they don't like what we say.


You are not just a minority, you do not represent Pashtuns. You represent westernized people who mock the core of Pashtun identity which is Islam.

So therefore you people are not part of Pashtun identity. And therefore, you are reminded of the fact that whatever you say is nothing but childish rant by outcasts.

This forum was suppose to be a place for fertile dialogue to help us progress. But it is used by you lot to bash Islam and mock our conservative identity and nature.

None of the stuff you lot says will ever catch on among the people in Pashtunkhwa or any other Muslim society.

So it's just a reminder that you are talking nonsense. And you should cut the nonsense and make yourselves useful.

Besides, it would be ashamed if you lot would be killed by your own villagers.

because would you lot have not apostated or adopted such sick and perverted ideas you lot promote here, you could have used yourself as a means of progress and stability in the long run.

But instead all of you will turn to second grade versions of Salman Rushdie and Amina Wudood. People who appease the kuffaar by mocking Muslims.

Roshina
08-19-2010, 08:57 PM
And I totally understand that -- but so what that we don't represent Pashtuns? You don't either; if anything, you represent only the pro-Taliban and religious extremist Pashtuns, not the rest of them. But so what?

I mean, why do we have to burden ourselves and each other with the responsibility of "representing" an ethnic group of over 50 million people?

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Qrratugai why do you think you are the only one wid a brain? You did some degree that you think you are more superior to us?? Please don't start with that nonsense, saying we are pro-reason and pro-this and that. Alhamdulilah many of us have a brain and we have had an education, upbringing and so on. Surrounded by books, media and so on. I myself have not been brainwashed by anything Islamic of the sort. I have been surrounded by biased media 24/7 and if anything i should be just like the average westerner who reads something and believes it straight away. But no i use reason and intellect to figure out what goes on. You are not the only one who is capable of that!

You have limited reason and intellect, which is why you keep repeating the same things over and over and over again....just for once think and type. Rather than the usual essays you write thinking you know it all.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 09:00 PM
And I totally understand that -- but so what that we don't represent Pashtuns? You don't either; if anything, you represent only the pro-Taliban and religious extremist Pashtuns, not the rest of them. But so what?

I mean, why do we have to burden ourselves and each other with the responsibility of "representing" an ethnic group of over 50 million people?

Who represents Pashtuns and who wants to represent them. I don't want to represent anyone except myself and my own opinions. If others follow it fine, if others don't i dont give a damn. I don't follow the crowd like a sheep, i follow what i feel is correct not according to my whims and desires, but according to what is obvious to be the truth.

Roshina
08-19-2010, 09:00 PM
^ Oh - so sorry to see that you are offended by what I said, Saifullah! However, I stick to what I said. I'd repeat it but clearly, you don't like that :(

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 09:05 PM
Qrratugai i am not offended by what you say, say whatever you want. What do i lose? But don't think i just want to reply to you for the sake of argument or like the way everybody usual debates here its an ongoing cycle. I don't want to get into that, because that is like a fruitless thing to do. We should find the core of what each person is trying to say and what their opinions are, rather than debating on every single issue their is. I am sure everybody has set principles. If somebody is an athiest then we understand what their belief would be, if someone claims to be a muslim then obviously they follow Islam and so on. You cannot be half in Islam and half an athiest or mixed with our own religion..

Roshina
08-19-2010, 09:09 PM
^ Then let's get back to the topic, shall we? You've made your point, and I've made mine, and both of us are serious about our points.

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 09:11 PM
Go ahead...

Saifullah
08-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Saying 60% of the posts here are spam, maybe Gulalai post come into that spam, its just all a matter of opinion. Like the saying one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

PFgulalai
08-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Gulalai as much as I want too all I am going to be getting back in response is cheap insults with a disguise on them.

I already know you have no respect for me so why should I even bother at this point? You even went as far as mentioning that saying 60 percent of posts here are spam which even admin frowned about.

May God bless you. Take care.

Hence it is concluded from the post above that you do not want to reply. Thanks.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 09:27 PM
zma zra ke boj nishta. pa de che mug alhamdulilah par haqq yu. Mug khalk ghulamai aw kufr na di balali.

Da kar kho de stasi de nashnalayano kar de pa PF ke.

Boj kho de nashnalyano pa zruno ke dai che de internet aw de bayan de azadey sekha na jayeza estefadah akhli aw zemug per deen aw imaan pore malande wahi.

Da de stasi malgari di che delta ghwari khpel zruna spak kri. Hase kho ham spak khalk di.

sangara! ta kho darogh wayal che ma pekhwar ke wakht na de ter kare, ta nationalyan sanga pezhane? hase darta wayam che za nationale na yam za PkMAP ke yam.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 09:31 PM
sangara! ta kho darogh wayal che ma pekhwar ke wakht na de ter kare, ta nationalyan sanga pezhane? hase darta wayam che za nationale na yam za PkMAP ke yam.
Nashnalyan pa PF ke shpa aw wraz tablighat kawi. Ta ta za wrund khkaregam?

Aw za drwagh na wayam.

PKMAP da ka ANP. Farsi ke wayi che sage zard, byadare shaghal ast. Zerr spai de gidar wror dai.

No difference what so ever.

PFgulalai
08-19-2010, 09:41 PM
Gulalai,
I do want to respond. If it was anyone else I would have responded with an essay. Yesterday me and BLS had a discussion. We disagreed but he know I respect him. You and I know you will later mock me under disguise and say we are spammers or that we are you know what. There was a time on PF where we had serious discussions and both side respected one another these little cliques never existed who later insult you in other threads or via Profiles visitor messaging. I had respect for you but when I saw a few posts of yours Id rather remain quiet. When I know you don't respect me why should I even bother?

No offence. May Allah bless you.

Kha kana, sama da. Pa makha de kha.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 09:58 PM
Nashnalyan pa PF ke shpa aw wraz tablighat kawi. Ta ta za wrund khkaregam?

Aw za drwagh na wayam.

PKMAP da ka ANP. Farsi ke wayi che sage zard, byadare shaghal ast
No difference what so ever.

che dwa dre khabare pa pakhto ke wolekee nu maata andaza woshee che da kas pa pekhawar ke paate shawe de aw ka na.

" Zerr spai de gidar wror dai. " dagha kho waja da che mong darta wayo che da zaana da ISI da lakai prekra nu bia zamong pokh wror ye.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 10:02 PM
che dwa dre khabare pa pakhto ke wolekee nu maata andaza woshee che da kas pa pekhawar ke paate shawe de aw ka na.

" Zerr spai de gidar wror dai. " dagha kho waja da che mong darta wayo che da zaana da ISI da lakai prekra nu bia zamong pokh wror ye.
za de hagho khalko wrorwali na manam che khoshe khabari kawi aw al wallaa wal baraa bande napohigi aw kuffaro sara walar die de musalman per khilaf.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 10:22 PM
za de hagho khalko wrorwali na manam che khoshe khabari kawi aw al wallaa wal baraa bande napohigi aw kuffaro sara walar die de musalman per khilaf.


Kuffaro sara kho taso hum las (10) kala da musalmanano khilaf malgartia kare da. btw, in Pashto there is no "ff" (no stress) in kuffar, it is Paki accent.

شمله ور خراساني
08-19-2010, 10:23 PM
Kuffaro sara kho taso hum las (10) kala da musalmanano khilaf malgartia kare da. btw, in Pashto there is no "ff" (no stress) in kuffar, it is Paki accent.
kuffaar is Arabic. Not Pashto.

And Khaqlis & Parchamis are not Muslims.

PFgulalai
08-19-2010, 10:25 PM
Saying 60% of the posts here are spam, maybe Gulalai post come into that spam, its just all a matter of opinion. Like the saying one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Of course, my posts are spam..look at the 7 posts that I made in this thread..all irrelevant to the topic and hence spam. And this is one another spam.

khyaal
08-19-2010, 10:32 PM
kuffaar is Arabic. Not Pashto.

And Khaqlis & Parchamis are not Muslims.


Kuffar is surely an arabic words but Pashtun pronounce it without stress on "f". This exposes Pakis influences on your personality.

Mayana
08-19-2010, 11:35 PM
Define conservative.

muhsina
08-20-2010, 04:17 AM
Why our people possess dead brain cells and have transformed their grey matter to dark one to misinterpret something of genuine concern by Toramana . I think what Toramana meant was that:

If the inhabitants of the bar watan are free [atleast in their lifestyle if not economically] why are they still under the shackles of religeous clergy [as most of these religeous bigots uphold and spread religion just to keep their market value in the society instead of an honest inquiry into truth and reality]?

Why is it that the free nature of Afghans have not motivated the inhabitants of the bar watan to disover new technology and rise as a developed nation like other freedom loving nations with glorious histories?

Why is it that the Pakis are smart enough to make a nuclear bomb and have a professional army whose one col Imam can play with the whole damn fate of a whole nation and Afghans are happy to play in their hands?

Why is it that the proxies of Punjabies can rule over entire Afghanistan just by hypnotising some religeous bigots and sell outs like Gulbadin and Mulla Omar and the inhabitants of the bar watan are happy and even defend rather intellectualise their defence by calling themselves as Mujahideen while forgetting the fact that they were used as cannon fodders for the US to make US the sole super power?

Why is it that even 50 years old states have achieved economic independence atleast while Afghanistan which is a 250 years plus old state still is a underdeveloped failed state and its inhabitants are still opting to go for those retrogressive thoughts which bring nothing to a state except sectarianism ,hatred and narrow mindedness?

When will the inhabitants of Afghanistan realise that they need to improve their quality of life and rise as a nation a respectable nation instead of depending upon one or another country and that the only way to achieve that is not to intellectulise their current status and justify it under the labels of religion or Islam or whatever but by hating the life of poverty and dependency?

I talk from the perspective of a person from an occupied Pakhtun land and we love to see our mother land Afghanistan prosper and progressing and while we become half dead when we see that our motherland is encouraging people who are sellouts and traitors of the soil and would sell their so called faith for some bucks to the officers of Pakistan army and intelligence agency just because they believe in the same mis conceptions about life and universe as do our Afghans brothers and sisters.


I would urge you guys to give the questions raised a serious heed and ponder over the questions as a first step towards self criticism and hence progress so that Afghans of the bar watan move forward instead of taking such mature questions childishly as offence to your juvenile egos.

The Afghans of the lar watan are still occupied and need to free themselves from the chains of Punjab's slavery.

BehavedMaseed
08-20-2010, 04:33 AM
A good example of this is when Sangar said he would prefer a Punjabi,Arab etc than a Pashtun Secularist. When he means Punjabi, he means Jihadi Islamist Punjab such as col imam,hamid guls etc. If Pashtuns choose to work for the betterment there will be enough of Afghan Jihadis to side with Pakistan Clerics to kill us all just as they did to Daud and joined hands with bhutto.

Kind Regards

Baygham
08-20-2010, 11:28 AM
yes, you are right. You have a slave mentality. You like slavery so much that you promote slavery for Afghanistan by supporting America.
You are a wahabi slave of the saud family, and a smaller slave of the ISI ahli-hadith wing. Ever thought of that. Probably the british wrote half of your wahabi literature to topple the ottomans a hundred years ago. So who is slave of who.

BehavedMaseed
08-20-2010, 11:39 AM
You are a wahabi slave of the saud family, and a smaller slave of the ISI ahli-hadith wing. Ever thought of that. Probably the british wrote half of your wahabi literature to topple the ottomans a hundred years ago. So who is slave of who.

He also posted a thread about will you save an ISI agent or a Raw Agent and he was shocked to see nobody wud save a ISI agent.go check it out on his threads hes posted

He even went onto saying that as long as the ISI agent is a Muslim he will save him no matter what.

Kind Regards

ijaz yousafzai
08-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Why our people possess dead brain cells and have transformed their grey matter to dark one to misinterpret something of genuine concern by Toramana . I think what Toramana meant was that:

If the inhabitants of the bar watan are free [atleast in their lifestyle if not economically] why are they still under the shackles of religeous clergy [as most of these religeous bigots uphold and spread religion just to keep their market value in the society instead of an honest inquiry into truth and reality]?

Why is it that the free nature of Afghans have not motivated the inhabitants of the bar watan to disover new technology and rise as a developed nation like other freedom loving nations with glorious histories?

Why is it that the Pakis are smart enough to make a nuclear bomb and have a professional army whose one col Imam can play with the whole damn fate of a whole nation and Afghans are happy to play in their hands?

Why is it that the proxies of Punjabies can rule over entire Afghanistan just by hypnotising some religeous bigots and sell outs like Gulbadin and Mulla Omar and the inhabitants of the bar watan are happy and even defend rather intellectualise their defence by calling themselves as Mujahideen while forgetting the fact that they were used as cannon fodders for the US to make US the sole super power?

Why is it that even 50 years old states have achieved economic independence atleast while Afghanistan which is a 250 years plus old state still is a underdeveloped failed state and its inhabitants are still opting to go for those retrogressive thoughts which bring nothing to a state except sectarianism ,hatred and narrow mindedness?

When will the inhabitants of Afghanistan realise that they need to improve their quality of life and rise as a nation a respectable nation instead of depending upon one or another country and that the only way to achieve that is not to intellectulise their current status and justify it under the labels of religion or Islam or whatever but by hating the life of poverty and dependency?

I talk from the perspective of a person from an occupied Pakhtun land and we love to see our mother land Afghanistan prosper and progressing and while we become half dead when we see that our motherland is encouraging people who are sellouts and traitors of the soil and would sell their so called faith for some bucks to the officers of Pakistan army and intelligence agency just because they believe in the same mis conceptions about life and universe as do our Afghans brothers and sisters.


I would urge you guys to give the questions raised a serious heed and ponder over the questions as a first step towards self criticism and hence progress so that Afghans of the bar watan move forward instead of taking such mature questions childishly as offence to your juvenile egos.

The Afghans of the lar watan are still occupied and need to free themselves from the chains of Punjab's slavery.

This is a very balanced,thought provoking and well- concieved analysis of th Afghan/ Pashtun dilemma living in Afghanistan. It seems that they can be exploited and misused on the name of religion for the next 100 years.

Michin Khel
08-20-2010, 06:16 PM
I dont think that people of pakhtunkhwa are that much progressed, they are also very conservative like Afghans.

BehavedMaseed
08-20-2010, 06:32 PM
Its a phase nations go through. Sadly the Pashtun region is no different than how the christians were in the medevil time. During General Zia era, there was a image promoted about Pashtuns, that Pashtuns only equal Islam and If your not a follower of Islam means your not a Pashtun ignoring the fact our history outdates the invention of Islam.

People such as Hamid gul,Imran Khans and col imams who enjoy secular upbringing and lifestyle have pushed for this image to be placed upon Pashtuns to keep them under their control and not progressive.

Afghanistan had left Islam during the 70's and choose to look forward for development and modernisation of its Nation, sadly due to its strategic point, Afghanistan was abused by most of the world and Islamists were a tool for foreigner powers to counter communism.

We witnessed What the Afghan Mujahideen did to Afghanistan when the so called Kaffirs fled. It will continue to happen until every Afghan realises that Allah is not going to send them rewards or happiness unless they start to work hard on developing their land and stop allowing it to be used by proxy Islamists.

Kind Regards