View Full Version : Agriculture Helps in Wardak Counter Insurgency Fight, Afghanistan


Feroza_Banu
08-10-2010, 12:44 PM
:shy: this is such an awesome news.

Wardag province should be pride of Afghanistan.

Catya Sher
08-10-2010, 04:24 PM
Send some of the apricots over here!
I am missing them.
(My tree has not one this year, boo hoo).
Are they organic, though?

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 04:35 PM
It's organic enough if you live in the west.
Wardak has worlds' best Apricotes and apples.....I've been to many countries and i've never came across anything close to what we have back in Afghanistan.

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 04:40 PM
^^ never heard of it..it might be amongst the youngsters.

Catya Sher
08-10-2010, 05:08 PM
By the way, when I finally get my articles somewhere put on this site, my first one was about my trip with Wardak mujahideen.
I did not get all the way to Wardak, though - too bad.
But I managed to get some good publicity into the media for the superb character shown by the Wardak leaders.
But that was at that time. I'm trying to figure out what happened politically in the province since that Soviet occupation time.
Anybody can explain for me?

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 05:47 PM
By the way, when I finally get my articles somewhere put on this site, my first one was about my trip with Wardak mujahideen.
I did not get all the way to Wardak, though - too bad.
But I managed to get some good publicity into the media for the superb character shown by the Wardak leaders.
But that was at that time. I'm trying to figure out what happened politically in the province since that Soviet occupation time.
Anybody can explain for me?

Just like any other province, went through heavy fighting during the soviet Jihad. During the civil wars, the province was relatively peaceful, no warlords messing around. The warlords and mujahideen commanders have a good reputation there. Because most of the Mujahideen commanders were educated and some even got their education in West. During the Taliban rule, our governor was Wardak and had no issues with the public.
A lot of Wardaks backed the Taliban during their rule not because they were their biggest fans, but because it was the only pashtun movement gaining ground, like any other province. Later on, thousands of Wardaks joined them in the fight for Bamiyan, Kapisa, and Parwan and hundreds died in a matter of days, the same goes for the fight for Mazar (Dasht-e-laily). The province was very peaceful like any other province during the Taliban era. When the US invaded, majority of the Wardak Taliban either went to Peshawar, Waziristan or Quetta and took part in operation in southern Afghanistan. Until 2004 the province was doing just fine, then all of a sudden majority of the Wardak Taliban from south came and started organizing their movement on village, district and finally provincial level. And here we are.....
Another point to be added, Wardak is one of the few provinces like Kunar,khost and Paktia where both Taliban and Hezb e Islami has a presense and often get into clashes sometimes. The tribal and social system has been destroyed by the West starting 2004. Right when the Taliban attacks started, the west found an opportunity to spread disunity between the public. That's why there is a lot of "Tarbaganai" in Wardak. Majority of the tribal elders were either detained and abused (to ruin their reputation), their houses were raided. While the rest fled to Kabul and other cities of Afghanistan, i.e. Mazar, Herat, Kandahar, Ghazni etc. Speaking at the moment, majority of the well known tribal elders have fled and in the process of leaving Wardak. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term American-Taliban. Apparently, there are some groups that pose as Taliban but are closely affiliated with the NDS (Afghan government and possibly coalition troops). Those are the ones that have carried out assassinations against the tribal elders and kidnapped wealthy people for ransom. These groups would often bring prisoners captured on the Kabul-Kandahar highway and call their families for ransoms. They would catch anyone that had an ID card or any type (even identity card), and the same goes for the engineers, Doctors and other professionals.
Once case happened last year, a group of American-Taliban had captured two young men (one Hafez-e-Quran) that were carrying two bags of cash (for personal purposes). Both were Pashtuns but not Wardaks, they had executed them later and after their execution dressed them in ANA uniform. Believe it or not, what goes around comes around. The families of those slain victims had found the phone numbers for those who were responsible, through local help probably. I heard they didn't even bother calling the murderers, instead, they called one of their wives and told her to inform her husband that he cannot hide from them and they will deal with him.

Catya Sher
08-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Very fascinating, thanks really a lot for the update.
And that amazing story about American Taliban. Glad the perpetrators will not be allowed to get away with this
Others will hear and will refuse to participate in the future.
No I never have heard of that but I figured there was that type of deceptive operations, though I didn't know details.
Who are the people in these units, then, are they mercenaries for hire once in a while or organized into actual units and trained for these attacks aimed at giving a bad reputation to the Taliban?
Neither did I realize Hizb-i-Islami has any presence there. Thought they were up in the north much more. They were always attacking other groups in the old days, splintering the unity which would have been much more successful.

What's Tarbanagai?
I'm upset about the elders being arrested - I heard of one case being taken to Bagram. It was with all of them though? Terrible!

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 06:14 PM
Very fascinating, thanks really a lot for the update.
And that amazing story about American Taliban. Glad the perpetrators will not be allowed to get away with this
Others will hear and will refuse to participate in the future.
No I never have heard of that but I figured there was that type of deceptive operations, though I didn't know details.
Who are the people in these units, then, are they mercenaries for hire once in a while or organized into actual units and trained for these attacks aimed at giving a bad reputation to the Taliban?
Neither did I realize Hizb-i-Islami has any presence there. Thought they were up in the north much more. They were always attacking other groups in the old days, splintering the unity which would have been much more successful.

What's Tarbanagai?
I'm upset about the elders being arrested - I heard of one case being taken to Bagram. It was with all of them though? Terrible!

They are just regular civilians, it's a long story.

Yes, Hezb e Islami is very popular in Wardak.

Haqqanis are also active in Shneez, Saedabad, Tangai areas.

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 06:17 PM
Tarbaganee is a brother competing to be better than his brother, a cousin wanting to be better than his cousin, a tribe competing with other tribe.
No idea how to explain that in english.

Catya Sher
08-10-2010, 06:24 PM
You think Hizbi is more popular than the Taliban? On which basis?
do they like Gulbuddin, or maybe think he will win out later and want to be on his side?
I expect the people of Wardak remember Maulavi Jelaluddin's contributions earlier and must respect him. After all, the Wardak mujahideen supply caravans had to go through his territory and there was a good cooperation it seemed at least at that time before. I saw that myself and I believe it lasted.

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 06:41 PM
You think Hizbi is more popular than the Taliban? On which basis?
do they like Gulbuddin, or maybe think he will win out later and want to be on his side?
I expect the people of Wardak remember Maulavi Jelaluddin's contributions earlier and must respect him. After all, the Wardak mujahideen supply caravans had to go through his territory and there was a good cooperation it seemed at least at that time before. I saw that myself and I believe it lasted.

Like I said, it's one of the complicated provinces like Paktia, Khost and Kunar, where both Taliban and Hezb has a heavy presence. Wardak always had a huge presense of Hezb e Islami, specially in Chak, Saedabad, Jalrez, Narkh and Maidan shahr. Obviously the Taliban have the upper hand and more publicity, but people are more happy with Hezb. You have to keep this in mined that when I said Hezb or Talib, I mean the new generation Hezbian and Taliban. The new generation Hezbian are very educated and optimistic people and have specific rules that they follow, unlike Taliban. Taliban movement is not as organized, they will claim responsibility for something and then deny it. Or sometimes they will accidentally kill someone and they will blame coalition troops for it. Whereas the Hezbian have a very firm reputation, their words are always backed with action. They have interesting rules like, their fighters cannot carry weapons when not necessary. They only attack the foreigners and refrain from attacking the local ANA and ANPs.
Yeah there are some crazy Hekmatyar fans in Wardak, specially the high schoolers and university students.
Regarding Mawlawi Jalaldin, Yeah obviously people love him because thousands of Wardaks fought alongside him in Khost and Paktia, my father also participated in some of the operations in Logar, Paktia and khowst. Not only Wardaks passed through Paktia but almost the entire north, north east and central Afghanistan did. Mujahideen back then cooperated with each other, they would travel without any issues. You have to keep in mined that the original Haqqani fame was all connected with Hezb e Islami. He was a part of the Mauwali Younus Khalis faction of Hezb e Islami (that later on divided and formed an indepedent hezb e islami lead by Mawalwi khales)
Taliban is a new movement , while Haqqani, Jihad, Hezb e Islami was famous since the 80s.

شمله ور خراساني
08-10-2010, 06:56 PM
:shy: this is such an awesome news.

Wardag province should be pride of Afghanistan.
Yes. Wardak is the pride of Afghanistan. Crusaders and the nihilist army of Kharzai are getting a proper wooping by the locals for the past 3 years.

BTW: this news item does not reflect the reality of the situation in Wardak. Most of Wardak is dominated by HIG and Taliban. And vast majority of locals support the AGE's.

شمله ور خراساني
08-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Age what's that ?
Its a COIN (counter insurgency) term. It stands for Anti-Government Elements. AGE.

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 08:50 PM
the AGE are always going to be there, regardless of the regime....

Zarawar
08-10-2010, 09:14 PM
when? the previous Taliban or the new ones?

amna.
08-11-2010, 01:28 AM
You think Hizbi is more popular than the Taliban? On which basis?
do they like Gulbuddin, or maybe think he will win out later and want to be on his side?
I expect the people of Wardak remember Maulavi Jelaluddin's contributions earlier and must respect him. After all, the Wardak mujahideen supply caravans had to go through his territory and there was a good cooperation it seemed at least at that time before. I saw that myself and I believe it lasted.
Hizbi and the Taliban according to my relatives are unified to defeat the infidels.

Zarawar
08-11-2010, 02:42 AM
do they like Gulbuddin, or maybe think he will win out later and want to be on his side?


haha I don't think Wardago qawm needs to rely anyone, we are a proud Musalman nation. Our history is full of bravery and less bragging, we don't need to rely on anyone in the future. We are going to have our own Hekmatyars, just waite until a few years, da nawee zwanan mo Alhamdulilah ham da qalam aw ham da torey zmaryan dee. I don't like bragging like most Wardags, but we were never power thirsty.
Ghazi Mohammad Jan Wardak, one of the heros of second Afghan-Anglo war had the entire country during the war and was offered and had the control of the kingdom many times, he refused it saying he didn't want to betray the ones that deserved it ( Ayub khan) that was not present in Kabul at the time. You see the history was always written by the ones that controlled the resources and educational institutions. Ghazi Kamal Khan, a general in Ahmad Shah Baba's army and the front line commander in the battle of Panipat, that latter on became the ruler of northern India, present day Pakistan and whole Kashmir region. There are Qalas (castles) in Wardak built in his times, he had brought all of the gates after the invasions of India on elephant backs (they are still there) and most importantly the saddle and knife of the slain Maratha's army chief that he had killed in panipat. The knife and the saddle is still in one of the local family's possession. Again, there is no history written on that........Khabara me pa Hekmatyar saib darta waka.
Wardak people's nature is not very loud, glittery, bragging and conceited. They've always remained neutral and backed the majority Pashtun movements of the times NOT their leaders for the sake of power, they would back the parties up based on Chegha and unity regardless of the movements motives and ideologies.

Zarawar
08-11-2010, 05:25 AM
^^ Jasmine khorey pa Naseeb ke de na woo, I wrote the longest reply ever. Accidently got removed, there is no way in the world i'm writing that again..Waite until I write a formal biography about him then i'll let you know.

Catya Sher
08-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Great discussion here, very illuminating for everyone.
Very glad if there is a powerful unity being forged in Wardak which will succeed in reclaiming the province for its own people.
My understanding from before during the Soviet time was that while there were some beautiful mountains, too much of Wardak was plains. Hence the Sovs could bombard way too easily and Wardak could not resist as well as mountainous areas.
Glad that thousands came to assist in Jelaluddin's campaigns in the east. Yes of course I know he was the main commander for Maulavi Khalis.
In fact I had for years their original mujahideen poster ! I might reproduce it if anyone is interested once I figure out how to do that! It was all over the place and showed a number of shahids beneath the portraits of the two.
Then, it was commonplace. But after these difficult years that have passed, it seems a historic document. There is a very optimistic spirit which I like about it. (In fact, I had my photo of this poster right on my computer for a week and then i discovered this site! So maybe it led me here... kidding a little!)

Speaking of artifacts, I hope that knife and saddle are still safe.
Zarawar wrote: "Majority of the tribal elders were either detained and abused (to ruin their reputation), their houses were raided. While the rest fled to Kabul and other cities of Afghanistan, i.e. Mazar, Herat, Kandahar, Ghazni etc. Speaking at the moment, majority of the well known tribal elders have fled and in the process of leaving Wardak"

Can you explain this more?
Also how the outside forces were trying to ruin the elders' reputations? I didn't get how that works. And WHY??? Why were the NATO or American forces so suspicious of Wardakis?

And then a big can of worms I'm sure to open up : what about the notorious "general" rahim wardak? I always warned people who asked me about him. A local area group raised funds for Afghanistan and wanted to fly him over to give a lecture. When I heard who they chose I said he's the worst, don't bring him! There are so many real mujahideen out there. But they ignored me and made a big show of promoting him.
Then the next thing I see he is a "general" and Minister of Defense.
My impression of him was poor because I had to ask him to gain access to interview the Soviet prisoners he had charge of.
He was I think the commander for Gailani party. But never accomplished much in the field, that was the reputation he had. Then suddenly a general?

Thanks SO much for these reactions of everyone who posted here.

Feroza_Banu
08-11-2010, 05:30 PM
is there any way possible to make a list of famous and/or accomplished wardags throughout the history.

Considering how wardags are very very down to earth people, most of their achievements and stories of bravery are unknown to many afghans.

Zarawar
08-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Great discussion here, very illuminating for everyone.
Very glad if there is a powerful unity being forged in Wardak which will succeed in reclaiming the province for its own people.
what exactly do you mean by reclaiming the province for its own people? are you referring to the NATO invasion?
Unless you are referring to some other type of reclaiming, elaborate...


My understanding from before during the Soviet time was that while there were some beautiful mountains, too much of Wardak was plains. Hence the Sovs could bombard way too easily and Wardak could not resist as well as mountainous areas.
Soviets focused on the main highway and so did the Mujahideen, most of the Mujahideen fighting took place on the main high way. Obviously when the Russian convoys would pass through the rural areas, they would get ambushed and attacked. But, they had no need and point in patrolling the rural side of Wardak. That's why a lot of Wardak Mujahideen would leave their homes for weeks and months to go attack the main highway or go into Logar, Kapisa, Bamiyan and Ghazni. Wardak Mujahideen were also fighting in other provinces like Paktia, Paktika, Khost, Nangarhar, and Kunar. Good example of that would be a Moa3z e Mili commander, commander Bismillah Khan from Shneez , Patankhel. His men were all over the mentioned provinces.





Can you explain this more?
Also how the outside forces were trying to ruin the elders' reputations? I didn't get how that works. And WHY??? Why were the NATO or American forces so suspicious of Wardakis?
They want to destroy the unity/jirga/social system, and that can be easily done by giving the leaders of the are a bad reputation. For example, conspiracies like night raids, assassination through the American-Taliban etc. You would think this war is only fought with dollar bills and bullets, NO! There are much more to it. For example a while back one of the elders wedding crew/convoy was passing through a remote area, armed men stopped the wedding convoy. Looted them and even took the jewelry from the womens hands, one of the womens ear was split into two because apparently the armed men were in hurry or something. Regardless, hundreds of cases like this has happened, and people are smart enough to detect that our social system is also under attack. They've took tribal elders to bagram and sexually molested them, some had their heads shaved and other things happen to them. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH TRIBAL ELDERS IN WARDAK ONLY, LOOK AROUND YOU, LOYA PAKTIA, LOY KANDAHAR, and LOY NANGARHAR, the tribal system is under attack. Foreigners are not silly, they've studied us and passed on notes about us for centuries. They know that the most effective way to break the Afghan unity/pride and resistance is to distrupt their social system. Because, Pashtuns rely heavily on elder authority, in that case, tribal elders or anyone that has a good reputation amongst the public.


And then a big can of worms I'm sure to open up : what about the notorious "general" rahim wardak? I always warned people who asked me about him. A local area group raised funds for Afghanistan and wanted to fly him over to give a lecture. When I heard who they chose I said he's the worst, don't bring him! There are so many real mujahideen out there. But they ignored me and made a big show of promoting him.
Then the next thing I see he is a "general" and Minister of Defense.
My impression of him was poor because I had to ask him to gain access to interview the Soviet prisoners he had charge of.
He was I think the commander for Gailani party. But never accomplished much in the field, that was the reputation he had. Then suddenly a general?

Thanks SO much for these reactions of everyone who posted here.

He was a close friend of Haqqani and took parts in one of the biggest battles, like the jawara battle of Paktia, he also controlled the surroundings of kabul and was responsible for the blowing of hundreds of electricity poles to shut the city off, of electicity. And yes he was with Gillani's mohaz e mili. Yeah he's a vegetable......a dead vegetable!
his da kar sarai nadai.

Catya Sher
08-11-2010, 06:52 PM
Great to understand all the history and the way the foreigners have tried to break the tribal system. I hadn't quite realized that in this war, the Americans were that determined to defame the elders throughout all these provinces.
[Seems to me that the Russians made some underhanded attempts to do that but did not focus so much on destroying the traditional chain of authority? I know they tried to buy off elders the same way that must have been done now.
Separate question: do you suppose the Russians handed over THEIR notes to Americans for this, or gave advice? Certainly the British would have pulled anything from their Foreign Office files. I'm curious about the Red Army though. Maybe no one knows exactly, but I wonder.]
Yes, of course I meant to reclaim the province from the nato forces. I haven't kept up too much as you can see but I do notice from time to time articles quoting "Governor so and so of Wardak said that blah blah". I always think who is THAT?! Some collaborator? It sounds so artificial, like a puppet regime for Wardak province. Not authentic. That's why I used the word 'reclaim'.

I am appalled about this taking the respected elders to Bagram and horribly mistreating them like that! Certainly the devil is gloating and working through each one of those torturers and all who cooperate with this policy. The people who seem powerful today to give these orders will nevertheless all get their punishment in the afterlife for what they have done. It's not much consolation for all the suffering right now, however.

The other question I have related to these insulting policies, is why do the nato forces want the documents of the elders' families? I was told that Americans took away all the papers of one family. WHY, I wondered? For what? It makes no sense. Americans are not record-keepers nor keen on history. They believe in the moment that's all, not analyzing past events.
So what do they need the family documents for? That concerned me a lot when I heard that.

Also now about rahim wardak - i hope he is not the relative of anybody around here, I don't mean to insult anyone - but am surprised that he was a good friend of Jelaluddin. Or cooperated. When was the Battle of Jawar?
Because I spent a week at Jawar when it was just new. Later it was bombed by the Soviets, but I did not follow events after that in any detail.

Yes I remembered after I wrote that about Sarobi - he was always attacking there and on those power lines. That's what he spoke about when I asked for the permission and a few polite interview questions. It was difficult to tell how successful he was with those operations from afar. But he did talk about them a lot.
Some Kabulis were said to be mad that their power was cut, I remember that.
Glad he helped out elsewhere too, that makes me feel better. I still thought, though, that he was too much of a heavy-drinker to be a real mujahid.
He was back and forth to America as i recall too.
I don't mean to offend any supporters of his, just mentioning my recollections of that time to throw in for the historical records.
At least no one can take them away from this site!

Zarawar
08-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Please for me.

PASHTUNQUEEN

I'll let you know when I'm done with the biography..