View Full Version : How does Afghan mean Pashtun nowadays?


Mayana
04-13-2010, 12:17 AM
I want to see the day I enter a Pashto Forum and don't see the following topics being discusses:

- "Afghan = Pashtun?"
- "Do you hate *insert any non-Pashtun group*?"
:banghead:

BLS_1919v2.0
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.

First of all, Afghan is part of the Pashtun identity, you can't seperate it from the other. Your proud and dear mufakrr e pakistan, Iqbal, believed it as well. Second of all, you do not speak for us nor by a stand of majority or historically. third of all, the Afghan name was just extended to include a citizenship, it does not negate the pakhtun aspect. Fourth of all, it is in the domicile of the Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa, so yes it is an integral part of our identity. Fifth of all, contemporary poets and pashto writers in Pashtunkhwa use the word Afghan for themselves as well. So you have zero basis to put this claim forward. Oh and stop trying to speak for us, you don't

BLS_1919v2.0
04-13-2010, 12:20 AM
I want to see the day I enter a Pashto Forum and don't see the following topics being discusses:

- "Afghan = Pashtun?"
- "Do you hate *insert any non-Pashtun group*?"
:banghead:



Why shouldn't we keep our identity? We should throw it away from an unnatural british state with a 60+ year history and another constitutional change in Afghanistan that is only 30 years old. Please.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-13-2010, 12:23 AM
Loll that kandahari guy. You don't even know your own history yet you have made such a huge claim. Uhmm I don't have it on hand, but any Pashtun here can vouch for this. Khyaal saib, jodigul etc anyone and everyone knows that for a pashtun there is Afghan as his nation on their domicile.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-13-2010, 12:23 AM
BLS
we are not Afghan wrora Afghan is currently serving as a nationality like Pakistani.
We are Pukhtun.

No every pashtun is afghan, hence lar au bar afghan. Go read and learn your pashtun history first before you make these claims.

Mayana
04-13-2010, 12:30 AM
I'm not running away from any questions or facts.

If your nickname is "Pakistani" and you explicitly say that you consider
yourself as such, what is the need to ask? (Pakistanaya wrora, I'm just
using you as an example, sorry) It's redundant, no?
You consider yourself Afghan, call yourself Afghan. You consider yourself
American, call yourself American; you consider yourself Pakistani, call
yourself Pakistani AU hamdagha Pakistanitob au Amrikaayitob mu
Mubaarak! But keep one thing in mind... how will you consider yourself
part of a country that does not even consider you part of it??

Pashtun is an ethnicity and Afghan is a nationality- they are 2 different
cups of tea. Exile Pashtuns have the luxury - or curse - to chose what
nationality they consider themselves.

It was Khoshhal Khan Khattak who said:

"Pull out your sword and slay any one, that says Pashtun and Afghan are
not one! Arabs know this and so do Romans: Afghans are Pashtuns,
Pashtuns are Afghans!"


Either go by it or don't. It's a personal question and nobody here can find
your identity for you.


Khlaaaas.

Dinosaur Khan
04-13-2010, 12:44 AM
Khushal baba was right.

the "A" in pakistan stands for afghania..... unfortunately we did'not got this name for our province.

and on my domicile the race is written as afghan. check district gazzetters, you r called as afghan.

Dinosaur Khan
04-13-2010, 01:02 AM
Can you post a picture please? It would be very appreciated u can hide the name and etc.

I never knew this.

i am a merely a student in hostel with no PC and scanner, i am working on mobile.
Between our domiciles are kept by college.

pir_Rokhan
04-13-2010, 02:22 AM
I cant imagine that Pakistan studies has ruined the minds of Pakthuns so much that our poor young generation now have no idea of their historic and ethnic identity.
Dear friends,jodigul,pakistani,swat etc,trust me when I tell you and dont take it personal or as offensive but as they say in Pashto:
Taso key la der kar patay dey.
Get a god damn educaton about your own nation first.Liking Pakistan against your nature or disliking it as genuine human reaction to oppression and exploitation , is a secondary issue.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 02:31 AM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.


First prove to us that you really are a Pashtun. I don't believe you are one. You are some Indian Mohajir from karachi who has learnt a bit of a Pashto.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 02:40 AM
BLS
we are not Afghan wrora Afghan is currently serving as a nationality like Pakistani.
We are Pukhtun.


I believe that you don't know a heck about Swat and the history of Swat State which on merging with Pakistan in 1968 has completely been ruined now. And I'm dead sure you don't even live in Swat because the people of Swat after the recent tragedy hate Pakistan. TA KHO SA CHAMCHA GHONTA KHKARAY.

Dinosaur Khan
04-13-2010, 02:51 AM
I know pashtun's rights are trampled in pakistan and i am fully aware of my history, culture and heritage but i have my own reasons to consider myself a pakistani citizen.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 02:52 AM
which mobile do you have Jodigul..

And which mobile do you have, me too in Peshawar.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 03:01 AM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.


A pity and degenerated soul maligning your own identity for the sake of an unnatural state which is hardly believed to survive for another few years.

Through external (Pakistani) interference in Afghanistan it passed through a phase of severe turmoil and it remained intact. This proved that Afghans are a nation. I strongly believe that Pakistan will be no longer on the world map just within a few days in case it faces such a situation. It uses fascist tactics to keep itself intact.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 03:04 AM
Show proof where the pakistani I-ds list Pashtuns as Afghan. A pic one would help.


Afghan is a nationality you are struck in the historical days when that Kandaharay guy was in charge.


My friend ! you have lost your sense of history. In the history of nations 63 years are nothing. British ruled India for about 150 years but at last that chapter ended and we hope that soon such will be the fate of your Pakistan.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 03:13 AM
BLS
we are not Afghan wrora Afghan is currently serving as a nationality like Pakistani.
We are Pukhtun.


Look below! This is shows your excellent knowledge about history.

^Ranjit sign is a pashtun puppet installed by Ahmad Shah

Dinosaur Khan
04-13-2010, 03:16 AM
which mobile do you have jodigul..

n73

khyaal
04-13-2010, 03:21 AM
n73


@ jodigul! Now look what Pakistan has done to all of them. ::rolleyes:: ::rolleyes:: ::rolleyes::

Dinosaur Khan
04-13-2010, 03:28 AM
@ jodigul! Now look what Pakistan has done to all of them. ::rolleyes:: ::rolleyes:: ::rolleyes::

I am aware of the situation, i watch & observe the ignorance and get more hopeless from pashtuns. that is why i am in status quo.
Baloch & people of hazara are alive people, we are not. that is why i strongely disagree with any one who says that pashtuns have realized the game against them.

khyaal
04-13-2010, 03:40 AM
I am aware of the situation, i watch & observe the ignorance and get more hopeless from pashtuns. that is why i am in status quo.
Baloch & people of hazara are alive people, we are not. that is why i strongely disagree with any one who says that pashtuns have realized the game against them.

Actually now we have enough people who have recognised the problem and know the recipe and that is the thing which will bring about the change in the very near future. You will see it will happen soon.

afghan
04-17-2010, 03:16 AM
the Wali of Swat used to say that All PASHTUN ARE AFGHANS, BUT NOT ALL AFGHANS ARE PASHTUN.

Nokia_Apridy
04-17-2010, 03:21 AM
the Wali of Swat used to say that All PASHTUN ARE AFGHANS, BUT NOT ALL AFGHANS ARE PASHTUN....
1:Khuday pak ta Sejday Dar khwakhey di khu pa yu rakat ka
4 sajdey wi Walay (why) ?..........

2:Khushal baba waley di chay YOusafzai Pukhtana na di Walay (why) ....

3: Na A----n na Arab ao na Perang yam
Pa Tair wakht da Khpalay Jabay Arman Raghlu...

4: chay Pukhtunistan ka Farsiwan,Tajik,Uzbak,Hazara,Pukhtun Ghwand shi da farsi

takay ta jor shi..............za ya num na Akhlam ...mata Haram da

Son of Mountains
04-17-2010, 03:34 AM
Once i told to a khattak old man that we are 5th generation Afghans. He said to me that we all Pashtun living in pakistan were once Afghans. But now we are pakistani since 14th August 1947. He said to me that now do not say that i am afghan, rather say that my forefathers were afghan but i am pakistani.

afghan
04-17-2010, 03:40 AM
the Wali of Swat used to say that All PASHTUN ARE AFGHANS, BUT NOT ALL AFGHANS ARE PASHTUN....
1:Khuday pak ta Sejday Dar khwakhey di khu pa yu rakat ka
4 sajdey wi Walay (why) ?..........

2:Khushal baba waley di chay YOusafzai Pukhtana na di Walay (why) ....

3: Na A----n na Arab ao na Perang yam
Pa Tair wakht da Khpalay Jabay Arman Raghlu...

4: chay Pukhtunistan ka Farsiwan,Tajik,Uzbak,Hazara,Pukhtun Ghwand shi da farsi

takay ta jor shi..............za ya num na Akhlam ...mata Haram da
Grana wrora sta pa maqsad poh na shom che ta tsa wayal ghware? i dont know where you got that khushal baba said yusufzais are not pashtun? do you have a proof of that? as i know i know khushal baba has written about yusufzai with great respect. better read his swat nama. he also wrote:
Ze de yusufzayo zan w zahr wom qatel
Bal maqsood me na wo pa khidmat ke da maghul
der shayan zwanan me yaw da bala wowazhal
ter saat arman de pkhemani nashta hasel

i have never seen anywhere that yusufzais are not pashtun. i did see in many places by paaki historians that Afridies are not pashtun, pakies claim that afridis are children of pashtun woman name Bibi mato and turk man. i dont think its correct.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-17-2010, 03:42 AM
Once i told to a khattak old man that we are 5th generation Afghans. He said to me that we all Pashtun living in pakistan were once Afghans. But now we are pakistani since 14th August 1947. He said to me that now do not say that i am afghan, rather say that my forefathers were afghan but i am pakistani.

So tomorrow when another state comes along what will he say, don't call me a pakistani call me so and so lollzz. If he is ashamed of his identity so much, tell him to edit his domicile "qaam" to something else. Afghan is tied to our identity.

tor_khan
04-17-2010, 03:51 AM
Once i told to a khattak old man that we are 5th generation Afghans. He said to me that we all Pashtun living in pakistan were once Afghans. But now we are pakistani since 14th August 1947. He said to me that now do not say that i am afghan, rather say that my forefathers were afghan but i am pakistani.

You might say that, the majority would say, I was historically Indian, but now I am Pakistani.

Tomorrow Balochistan will be free and .. what ... will they say ... I used to be Pakistani?

I don't get the mentality of denial. I've tried to understand it and failed.

Pashtoon = Afghan

Why the doubt?

BLS_1919v2.0
04-17-2010, 03:54 AM
You might say that, the majority would say, I was historically Indian, but now I am Pakistani.

Tomorrow Balochistan will be free and .. what ... will they say ... I used to be Pakistani?

I don't get the mentality of denial. I've tried to understand it and failed.

Pashtoon = Afghan

Why the doubt?

What is even funnier is that if say pakistan is not there during his lifetime, what will he say then? My forefathers were Afghan, I was pakistani half my life now I am x,y,z lolzz. It is sad when you see such people in denial or shame of their identity.

Nokia_Apridy
04-17-2010, 04:00 AM
khushal baba said yusufzais are not pashtun? do you have a proof of that...

Pekhwar Acdmey ka

D.Slama Shahen da haga khlu na da takey ma Awrdeley wu...nur ka shak da wi chay

prof ghwarey nu da hga na tapos waka

KHUSHAL baba da khbra zka kwala chay MAGHUL khelaf warsra YOUSAFZI

Nakhtay (Jung) ta na odredal....Ao da A----n da Farsi takay walay chay

Farsi zma sra pa lara Zara jaba rara wana da...

Khushal Khan Khattak
04-17-2010, 04:01 AM
If you are a Pushtun/Pukhtun you are an Afghan and you are also a Pathan.

I am a Pukhtun, Afghan and Pathan.

Sadly today Afghan = pushtuns, uzbek, tajik, hazara etc.

This is not accurate.

Afghan = only Pushtuns, whether living in Pakistan, Afghanistan or elsewhere.

and what is Afghan?

Afghan = the tribes of Pukhtuns that descend from the same ancestor.

this makes only a few tribes about 20+ and not all.

in the end, though I am a Pakistani but I am an Afghan.

My Nation(Qaam) is Afghan, my birth country Pakistan.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-17-2010, 04:03 AM
khushal baba said yusufzais are not pashtun? do you have a proof of that...

Pekhwar Acdmey ka

D.Slama Shahen da haga khlu na da takey ma Awrdeley wu...nur ka shak da wi chay

prof ghwarey nu da hga na tapos waka

KHUSHAL baba da khbra zka kwala chay MAGHUL khelaf warsra YOUSAFZI

Nakhtay (Jung) ta na odredal....Ao da A----n da Farsi takay walay chay

Farsi zma sra pa lara Zara jaba rara wana da...
Khushal baba never said that. What Khushal baba said was that he was angry that Yousafzais did not help khattaks and the other tribes during their uprising against the mughals. This is what Khushal Baba said

I alone, amongst the Afghāns, grieve for our honour and renown;
Whilst the Yūsufzīs, at their ease, are tilling their fields.

who told you Afghan is a farsii word? It is not. It is considered to be either from sanskrit or avestan ashvakan/aspagan (this is agreed upon by many scholars).

tor_khan
04-17-2010, 04:06 AM
If you are a Pushtun/Pukhtun you are an Afghan and you are also a Pathan.

I am a Pukhtun, Afghan and Pathan.

http://images.zaazu.com/img/vomit-boy03-vomit-puke-sick-smiley-emoticon-000662-large.gif@ "Pathan"



Apologies in advance, but I have more paper bags in case anyone else feels sick.

Khushal Khan Khattak
04-17-2010, 04:06 AM
Khushal baba never said that. What Khushal baba said was that he was angry that Yousafzais did not help khattaks and the other tribes during their uprising against the mughals. This is what Khushal Baba said

I alone, amongst the Afghāns, grieve for our honour and renown;
Whilst the Yūsufzīs, at their ease, are tilling their fields.


Yes indeed you are right BLS!

Khushal Baba said this only because he was angry with the Yusafzai.

It didnt mean that he didnt recognize them to be non Pushtuns.

I agree.

Khushal Khan Khattak
04-17-2010, 04:09 AM
http://images.zaazu.com/img/vomit-boy03-vomit-puke-sick-smiley-emoticon-000662-large.gif@ "Pathan"



Apologies in advance, but I have more paper bags in case anyone else feels sick.


I respect your opinion Tor Khan but there is a whole volume worth of reason why I say this. Someday Inshallah I'll make a thread on it here. Dont worry, everything will be clarified.

Just one thing, most Pushtuns hate this word because they think it is what Punjabis call us. This notion is incorrect. Hence, your reasoning is flawed. This word didnt originate with the pUnjabis. I'll prove it one of these days. Inshallah.

So, no reason to puke Buddy.

afghan
04-17-2010, 04:17 AM
Khushal Khan Khattak

you have got a funny banner with your name, this huge portrait of jinah and paaki flage is covering the great pashtun legend khushal baba and some other pashtun dentities, is it some kinda warning? just curios if you dont wanna say its Ok.

Khushal Khan Khattak
04-17-2010, 04:21 AM
Khushal Khan Khattak

you have got a funny banner with your name, this huge portrait of jinah and paaki flage is covering the great pashtun legend khushal baba and some other pashtun dentities, is it some kinda warning? just curios if you dont wanna say its Ok.

ha ha ha. Nice sarcasm wror jana!

I like your words.

Well, actually to tell you the truth, I made that picture myself. I tried to show how time has passed from the past years to the present, to show the identity and the feeling of the Pakistani Pushtun

So though we love Pakistan and Jinnah but we also love Afghanistan and Pukhtun unity is something that we all aspire and yearn for.

It is like a collage of all the Pushtuns and their sentiments and ideas out there.

tor_khan
04-17-2010, 04:30 AM
I respect your opinion Tor Khan but there is a whole volume worth of reason why I say this. Someday Inshallah I'll make a thread on it here. Dont worry, everything will be clarified.

Just one thing, most Pushtuns hate this word because they think it is what Punjabis call us. This notion is incorrect. Hence, your reasoning is flawed. This word didnt originate with the pUnjabis. I'll prove it one of these days. Inshallah.

So, no reason to puke Buddy.

Khushal Khan ... I know that even the great Bacha Khan, his sons and Khudai Khidmatgars etc. used the word both in speeches and in print. That was colonial India/early Pakistan and my view is that when using Pashto, they would have used what comes natural with the language.

I only expect the word when we are dealing with something of a certain period. The world has moved on, circumstances around us have changed - we have been called many things but that what we are - Afghan/Pashtoon.

I do look forward to the thread, however.

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-17-2010, 04:43 AM
د لفظ پټهان باره کښې زما رائے دا ده چې دا لفظ هغه خلق استعمالوي څوک چې پښتو نۀ شي وئيلې.......... مطلب دا چې دا نوم پښتنو ته نان پښتو سپيکنګ خلقو ورکړے دے....... نو ښه خبره دا ده چې پښتون ته دې صرف پښتون يا افغان ووئيلې شي............نه چې پټهان
اسان مثال ئې دا دے چې زمونږ پېښور کوم چې انګرېزانو په پشاور بللو نن سبا ډېر پښتانۀ وروڼه ورته هم پشاور وائي................دغسې نوښار ته نوشهره وائي.......... نو غرض د خبرې دا دے چې مونږ له پکار دي چې خپله ژبه او خپل ثقافت له ترقي ورکړو او د نورو خلقو خبرو پسې نۀ ځو

هغه د پښتو ټپه ده چې:
خلق به هر څۀ هر څۀ وائئ
جانانه مۀ د چا منه نۀ به ئې منمه

afghan
04-17-2010, 12:26 PM
ha ha ha. Nice sarcasm wror jana!

I like your words.

Well, actually to tell you the truth, I made that picture myself. I tried to show how time has passed from the past years to the present, to show the identity and the feeling of the Pakistani Pushtun

So though we love Pakistan and Jinnah but we also love Afghanistan and Pukhtun unity is something that we all aspire and yearn for.

It is like a collage of all the Pushtuns and their sentiments and ideas out there.
grana khushala osey.

kunar1990
04-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.

I am more then sure you are not pashtun! You are punjabi/pakistani passing yourself off as pashtun? Right!

Khushal Khan Khattak
04-17-2010, 01:58 PM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.


I completely disagree with everything you said Brother!

Pakistani Pushtuns are Afghans and Uzbek, Tajiks cannot be Afghans, never ever.

Afghan is a Qom (nation) or you can say an ethnicity or race.

I am a Pakistani Pushtun and I will always be an Afghan, even though I do not live in Afghanistan.

khyaal
04-17-2010, 02:41 PM
Nowadays Afghan is a broad terms that covers all ethnic groups.

We Pashtuns of Pakistan want to not be known as "Afghan" we dont hold Afghan passports or citizenship.

We are proud Pashtuns, we love our Afghan brothers but we are Pakistani.


modern day Afghan even includes Tajak and Uzbak.


My question from you is:

How all of a sudden in just one day our nationhood changed from Pashtun/afghans to Pakistani?

On Augus 13, 1947 we were Pashtun/afghans (and Pathans by some like "The Pathans by Olaf Caroe") living inside the British India. But the next day on August 14 we were no longer Pashtun/afghans rather had metamorphosed into Pakistani nation? How could this be possible?

Abdaal
04-18-2010, 10:04 AM
I would like to further strenthen the fact that: Afghans = Pashtuns
To clarify this further; Pashtuns are ethnically Afghans; do not confuse it with Nationality.

Afghan is a synonym for Pashtuns. We the Pashtuns are the only Afghans. Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara are not Afghans. They are non Afghan ethnic groups living in Afghanistan. Stan means 'Place of'. So Afghanistan means Place of Afghans/Pashtuns.

'Afghan' is basically a Sanskrit word. It is the Arab adaptation of a Sanskrit tribalname, Asvaka/Avagana.

Again the Non Afghan Ethic groups can be called Afghanistanis; meaning people of Afghanistan but cannot be called Afghans.

So even if the Pashtuns in Pakistan are called Pakistanis; since they are living in Pakistan....they are very much ethnic Afghans living in Pakistan.

So therefore, Afghan/Pashtun is our ethnicity, Afghanistan is the Place of Afghans/Pashtuns and Pashtuns originally belong to Afghanistan; they may currently be living in any country or on any planet.

This should lay to rest any confusion in this regard.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-19-2010, 11:58 AM
That is a good way to summarize it.


Actually, awesome way.


Tajik,Uzbeks = Afghanistanis.

Be careful with those statements, they have been used by Setamis in Afghanistan like Latif Pedram. If anyone knows anything about Afghanistan's politics, they would know these Setamis use such statements are not helpful or beneficial towards Afghanistan or Pashtuns.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-19-2010, 12:01 PM
what you mean, I dont understand.

Words like Afghanistani normally would have some weight but they are in Afghanistan politically loaded words. You have to check the likes of Latif Pedram to understand it.

BLS_1919v2.0
04-19-2010, 12:03 PM
Hmmm I see your point.

Pukhtoon007
04-20-2010, 01:25 AM
I would like to further strenthen the fact that: Afghans = Pashtuns
To clarify this further; Pashtuns are ethnically Afghans; do not confuse it with Nationality.

Afghan is a synonym for Pashtuns. We the Pashtuns are the only Afghans. Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara are not Afghans. They are non Afghan ethnic groups living in Afghanistan. Stan means 'Place of'. So Afghanistan means Place of Afghans/Pashtuns.

'Afghan' is basically a Sanskrit word. It is the Arab adaptation of a Sanskrit tribalname, Asvaka/Avagana.

Again the Non Afghan Ethic groups can be called Afghanistanis; meaning people of Afghanistan but cannot be called Afghans.

So even if the Pashtuns in Pakistan are called Pakistanis; since they are living in Pakistan....they are very much ethnic Afghans living in Pakistan.

So therefore, Afghan/Pashtun is our ethnicity, Afghanistan is the Place of Afghans/Pashtuns and Pashtuns originally belong to Afghanistan; they may currently be living in any country or on any planet.

This should lay to rest any confusion in this regard.

zama da khley khabara de wokra

anywayz people jodigul was banned from the last pushtun forum he was banned becasue u cant talk sense into the guy...he is a strong pakistani army supporter......and recentli on facebook i found out that jodigul is half punjabi.....and that he has many other aliases on this forum...

and to the guy hu said he became pakistani after 1947 lol...
so 1892 u wer afghan
1893 u became British Indian
1947- u became Pakistani
2010--u got a kick in the crutch from me for being a traitor.

anywayz ive always refereed to tajiks hazaras n all non pushtuns living in Afghanistan as Afghanistani...thas how its supposed to be.