View Full Version : Having multiple wives in Pashtun culture.


Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:30 AM
This costume is fading away, who to blame?
we got two factors,

Secularism/ new ideologies/ democracy?
or
War/poverty?

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 12:12 PM
i think new ideologies, because in the past women were more tolerant of it, but now they would not be happy with it whatsoever.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 12:20 PM
i think new ideologies, because in the past women were more tolerant of it, but now they would not be happy with it whatsoever.

Well, that also.
But, islamically/Pashtunwali wise the woman's opposition is always expected and one should not halt his decision based on that. That's why the first wives' view doesn't matter.

Also, you can deal with your first wive if the husband uses rationality and positive thinking. But, the problem lies between the men, not the women. There has to be something affecting this process.

I think it's the mobile mindsets and ideologies.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:00 PM
Well, that also.
But, islamically/Pashtunwali wise the woman's opposition is always expected and one should not halt his decision based on that. That's why the first wives' view doesn't matter.

Also, you can deal with your first wive if the husband uses rationality and positive thinking. But, the problem lies between the men, not the women. There has to be something affecting this process.

I think it's the mobile mindsets and ideologies.

i don't think rationality works with the modernised women these days, because mentality has changed, and most men if they intend to find a second wife will result in the first wife leaving him.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:00 PM
In our culture it existed but its now on the verge of extincting.

and so it should

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:08 PM
i don't think rationality works with the modernised women these days, because mentality has changed, and most men if they intend to find a second wife will result in the first wife leaving him.

I understand your frustration as female, but our religion permits us to do this. In fact motivated in some cases. But, that's only if one can treat them equally...

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:15 PM
I understand your frustration as female, but our religion permits us to do this. In fact motivated in some cases. But, that's only if one can treat them equally...

yes the religion permits this but before you said that the first wifes opinion doesnt matter however, islamically thats not the case. Secondly for those of us who live in the west, polagamy is illegal, now islamically we must obey the law of the land, which would mean two marriages are not permitted.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:16 PM
^ he meant for men, because women arent allowed to.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:20 PM
yes the religion permits this but before you said that the first wifes opinion doesnt matter however, islamically thats not the case. Secondly for those of us who live in the west, polagamy is illegal, now islamically we must obey the law of the land, which would mean two marriages are not permitted.


Well, the west also permits us to marry same sex.

That doesn't mean we can compare that to what islam says.

And, about the permission issue, alot of scholars have different conclusions. But, most say that if one ask his wife that he's about to get married. 95% of the time the spouse is not going to permit him. And, that halts the process of having multiple wives. I mean no wive want her husband to marry another woman, this is when the logic kicks in.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:22 PM
Zarawar how would you feel if your wife gets shared?

I'm talking in accordance with Islam.
Islamically we can marry multiple wives whereas women cannot do that.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:24 PM
Zarawar the culture has now changed.

Now its 1 wife. The minute she dies, another wife comes in.

well that wouldn't differenciate us from anyone else (including christians, athiests etc)

I mean obviously you have to get another one after the first one dies, i'm talking about marrying one, when you have one breathing.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:28 PM
^ lol i bet you lot are not even married yet and your think of killing your first wives just so you can get another one, so much for missing the dead one.

zarawar.....some pashtun women are fine with it and in the past they were made to accept it, its not like they were asked or given the choice anyway.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:30 PM
^ lol i bet you lot are not even married yet and your think of killing your first wives just so you can get another one, so much for missing the dead one.

zarawar.....some pashtun women are fine with it and in the past they were made to accept it, its not like they were asked or given the choice anyway.

I'm married,

and i don't have any intentions of killing her.

da tapa (stamp) ham ramandey walagawai wos.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:31 PM
Ignore the response, I didn't know you were talking to Shlombay.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 01:32 PM
what is the obession with people getting a second wife. i know it exists in islam and pashtun culture but generally why do men need a second wife?

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:45 PM
what is the obession with people getting a second wife. i know it exists in islam and pashtun culture but generally why do men need a second wife?

Da sanga sawal wo,

you never get enough of the good and blessed things in your life.

thats the very human nature...

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 01:58 PM
That would be too much pain on the 1st one.

I can just picture that....

Feroza_Banu
07-26-2010, 02:07 PM
there is a saying that when a man starts having some money in his pocket, the first thing that comes to his mind is another wife...

so i thin it has to do mostly with financial instability.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 02:07 PM
In Kandahar city nothing is in effect,

lol


You cannot say "KANDAHAR CITY" because kandahar city is full of all tribes, races, ideologies, mindsets etc.

One of the reason why I asked this question was to find out what people of different mindsets think.

There is no such thing as "kandahar city" has not been effected by this, while the rest of the country is.

There are conservative people in kandahar, and then we have the liberals.

The same goes with any other race and area.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 02:14 PM
yow folkways dee, yow facts dee.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 02:32 PM
Da sanga sawal wo,

you never get enough of the good and blessed things in your life.

thats the very human nature...

well then i guess people need to learn self control.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 02:40 PM
^ i understand where your coming from but i dont think that women like sharing the husbands and maybe that was accepted before, but not now.

Master Khan
07-26-2010, 02:56 PM
i won't mind, there are alot of girls in my villages...they all need someone in their lifes.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 03:05 PM
When you are in such a situation one has to understand and accept.

Having multiple wives simultaneously was never popular in our culture. Its hard to keep one of us under control.

yes it has, because multiple wives results in a dozen or half a dozen sons.

Having a hand full of sons was a must in Pashtun society (and it still is) because of the "badee" enmities.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 03:11 PM
Zarawara in the past 2 decades this cultural aspect of ours is at all time low.

might be low for you, me or someone else.

But, the core ideology behind having more wives (i.e. more children) has everything to do with survival.

The educated and westernized ones are the ones that fled the country 2-3 decades ago. But the poor and more conservatives still reside in tens of thousands of villages, and they still practice this.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 03:19 PM
I travel to those villages and I have yet to see any signs of this revitalizing and I have every right to assume that its dying out to our increasing poverty and poor quality of life index.

well, I don't know what kind of villages are you talking about.

Warsha da Ghazni andaro ta, ya da Uruzgan yow kalee ta.

eyeliner
07-26-2010, 03:37 PM
i won't mind, there are alot of girls in my villages...they all need someone in their lifes.

your acting as though your doing some kind of favour on them.

Roshina
07-26-2010, 04:25 PM
Since marriage is a two-way (NOT one-way) deal, and you have to respect and understand your spouse just as you want her/him to understand and respect you, why get another wife when your first wife does not approve or if it would hurt her? How do you expect her to understand your desire for another wife when you are not trying to understand her perspective, or her desire that you remain hers only? No woman wants to share her husband with another woman. Oh, and sorry, brothers -- those excuses of “Oh, it’s natural; we have desires that need to be fulfilled, and one wife is not good enough for that” aren’t working any longer. And they shouldn’t be. If you're that interested in addressing desires you like to call natural, be careful: You might never even get that ONE wife you actually need to fulfill your desires!

Now, what I don’t understand is this: If your first wife threatens to leave you if you bring another wife home, then who exactly are you helping? What exactly are you trying to prove to yourself, your wife, and/or other people? What will you get – the first wife you had no problems with left you because you brought another one home. You might as well stick to the first one, then, since either way, you end up with one wife.

Now, if you're that desperate for more than one wife, be SURE to marry a woman who will tell you, "Yeah, I won't mind if you bring another wife home while you're married to me" for your first wife.

Also, if you wanna do a favor for the poor women in your community, try funding them -- without having to marry them. Marriage isn't the only option you have of helping them. There are many other options -- you know, like making sure they marry good men whom you might know, or then just paying their rent for them, or buying them food on a regular basis, or funding the education of their children (if they're divorced or widowed). If you REALLY wanna help a poor woman in your village, marry her ... and I mean marry her NOT to make her your second wife; make her your first (and only) wife! Believe me, nothing would make a poor woman happier than that!

Roshina
07-26-2010, 04:32 PM
Oh, and the reason the practice is declining now is that ... well, we're FINALLY realizing the fact that women are actually humans, so their opinion now matters. And so when a wife refuses to allow her husband to have another wife besides her, some men are kind enough to understand and say, "Okay, you're enough for me, and I will not have another wife as long as I'm married to you then."

Of course, not all men are this humane, so some will marry regardless of their wives' wishes.

By the way, in Islam, it's sunnah to ask for your present wife's (or wives') permission before marrying another one; it's not fard. If you wanna practice the way of the Prophet, then how about considering things like this -- you know, like the feelings of your wife -- rather than growing a beard and all, which doens't concern another human but only you?

erlangner
07-26-2010, 05:10 PM
Yarra Khalq zan pore tang de, ao ta warla 3-4 khazay kaway.

I think awareness and women freedom is the main reason as women speak against it. My one cousin has two wives, and I know in what situation he is. His first wife is sitting with her brothers alongwith his kids. The other one (new one) was ok with him for few years but now many problems, and now he is so much confused as both of them do not want to lvie together. Although his father has two wives and it was ok.

Many examples are there.
I think education, and awareness is the main reason.

erlangner
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
As far as religion is concerned it also does not allow. The people I know, no one of them married a 2nd wife as per Islamic rules. However misuse of this permission is there for sure.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:01 PM
Uruzgan and Ghazni are both trying to find food on there tables.

logically do you think they can support 2 or 3 wives when they are too busy thinking on how to manage food for tomorrow?

Western logic doesn't work in that part of the world. It's not about counting and having this headache whether someone can afford children or not.
Pashtuns never look at the consequences of anything they do, no wonder we are in such a big mess.
My grandfather could barely provide for his 28 children, as a matter of fact half of the time he was too busy solving tribal issues, and forgot about his kids.
Pashtun society is not like western society, no one starves to death in pashtun society.
Pashtuns might have "tarbganai" for competing purposes, but they do have "tarbganai" that give each other a hand in time of need.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:21 PM
This culture is still alive and in practice. It's not practice in the city but it is in the urban areas.

True!

Saifullah
07-26-2010, 06:34 PM
It is really a sad fact that our men continue to marry more than one wife without realising what its about.

You know even marrying your first wife shouldn't be a rash decision, we should understand and try to make ourself ready for marriage. Firstly what is marriage, what are the rights of the wife, what is required by me and all these things.

But our men do not do this, when they get older they neglect their first wife and then look for a younger woman to marry for their enjoyment. That is sad and it ruins families because the respect of the father/brother/husband is diminished. The way in which Islam tells a man you have permission to marry more than one wife, isn't so easy.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:41 PM
sometimes men end up with 2 wives because of tribal problems. They give daughters for peace

thats a very small minority, and that for sure is fading away permanently.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:42 PM
I haven't got a satisfying reply from any one. Everyone has so far spoke for themselves. No Islamic prospective or example so far....

Saifullah
07-26-2010, 06:45 PM
Islam says you can marry more than one wife. But then there is an ayat that you should treat them equally.

How do you treat them equally. Well in the amount of time you spend with them, in giving them each a shelter, food and security and so on.

Our men cannot even give full rights to his wife even when he has only married one wife and then to marry more than one wife is another discussion. First let our men understand the rights of a wife in Islam.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:53 PM
Islam says you can marry more than one wife. But then there is an ayat that you should treat them equally.

How do you treat them equally. Well in the amount of time you spend with them, in giving them each a shelter, food and security and so on.

Our men cannot even give full rights to his wife even when he has only married one wife and then to marry more than one wife is another discussion. First let our men understand the rights of a wife in Islam.

one can only speak for himself.

Saifullah
07-26-2010, 06:55 PM
I am not married and when i say our men obviously i am not saying all of the pashtun men dont treat their wives properly. But it is a known fact that our women do not enjoy the greatest of rights in society whether in villages or cities.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 06:57 PM
I am not married and when i say our men obviously i am not saying all of the pashtun men dont treat their wives properly. But it is a known fact that our women do not enjoy the greatest of rights in society whether in villages or cities.

Again, one could only speak for himself.
TREAT YOUR WOMEN PROPER!

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 07:02 PM
oh and what freedom?
Does our women have to worry about going to work, doing taxes and pay checks?
Does our women have to worry about them getting drunk at night clubs and ending up in crazy stuff?
Have you ever met an Afghan or Pashtana that has been raped?
Have you ever met an Afghan woman that is asked to go work and earn money?
Don't fell for the CNN/BBC image of our honorable women.
Look around you, how is women treated in your family? I'm pretty sure they are treated on the level that no body can ever be treated (pleasure life)
Our women are like jewels, we wrap them in Hijab and don't use them as entertainment toys for others.
I don't know what kind of freedom you are refering to, because I'm picturing hundreds of women from my family and I can see their happy lives. Not in Kabul or any other big city, but small villages where everyone is illiterate.

Saifullah
07-26-2010, 07:20 PM
I am not a brainwashed westerner that you have to teach me about the western society. I know and have been born in such a society, at the same time i have seen the society of pashtuns.

Alhamdulilah in my own family there is no bad treatment of women. But that is not the case for my far relatives we have living in villages.

Over there majority of women who marry and living in JOINT family system. Now joint family system is great when everybody is great. But many times that is not the case, the wife is like a slave and she has to do everything for her family and her husbands family. Respect has a limit and the woman is a human as well.

So they dont have to work to earn a living, but they work in the house like slaves. In laws telling her make this, do this, dont do this and interference from everyone.

Women are rarely given the same treatment as the men. In inheritance women rarely get a share. Our women are not educated in the same way. At least if they dont go to school in villages, the men can learn something and then teach it to the females of their family.

Our women if they make a little mistake they are condemned. Our men many of them drink alcohol, many go clubbing, many come home beating their wives and so on. Dont deny things, this is our problem. Your family might be fine, but is that representative of everyone? Our problem has always been to reject our faults.

Saifullah
07-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Just because in my close family women are treated well, doesnt mean i can then tell all pashtuns women are fine in our society.

Just because the women in my family are all educated doesnt mean i can go to the villages of pashtun people and tell the women oh you are all fine my women are educated so dont worry and complain.

Dont disrespect our women who are suffering at the hands of cruel men or cruel society. I feel sorry for them. Whether those women are in 2% of our society or 80%...

I am not a supporter of those women who claim we need to be like western women to gain freedom. We have our Islam alhamdulilah to tell us how to treat our women.

Roshina
07-26-2010, 07:27 PM
I don't know what kind of freedom you are refering to, because I'm picturing hundreds of women from my family and I can see their happy lives.

Brother Zarawar! You're speaking FOR other people. Why is that? And not just any people -- for women specifically. You need let them speak for themselves. You can't look at a woman and tell whether she's happy or sad, liberated or oppressed. Sometimes we THINK we can read people's minds or read people's faces, but the reality is, we can't know what's in a person's heart.

So, these "hundreds of women" from your family that you talk of, don't speak for them. They are blessed with their own minds.


I'm picturing hundreds of women from my family and I can see their happy lives.Not in Kabul or any other big city, but small villages where everyone is illiterate.

I must not assume anything, so let me confirm this with you first: You think that the women who are illiterate are happy? While those who are in big cities (and/or are educated, or are literate) are unhappy?

If that's indeed what you mean to say, then who are you to define happiness for other people (that even, women; especially when we're always claiming that women and men have different needs and different desires)? What makes you think you have the right to decide whether someone is unhappy or not?

And literate women versus illiterate women? How many studies have you conducted yourself on both illiterate and literate women? If none, I strongly urge you to do that before you make such a conclusion. (No, I'm not gonna trust the studies of other people; I need to know what YOU have studied and learned yourself; I need to know how many women YOU have interacted with (again, both literate and illiterate), interviewed, had conversations with in order for you to conclude that they're happy or unhappy; I need to know where they were/are originally from and where they live, how educated or uneducated their families were/are, AND all the different palaces on earth they've lived so that they can compare their lifestyles and experiences to each one.) Otherwise, let them speak for themselves -- not just the illiterate Afghan women you mentioned, but the literate western women you compare them to.

Feroza_Banu
07-26-2010, 07:34 PM
oh and what freedom?
Does our women have to worry about going to work, doing taxes and pay checks?
Does our women have to worry about them getting drunk at night clubs and ending up in crazy stuff?
Have you ever met an Afghan or Pashtana that has been raped?
Have you ever met an Afghan woman that is asked to go work and earn money?
Don't fell for the CNN/BBC image of our honorable women.
Look around you, how is women treated in your family? I'm pretty sure they are treated on the level that no body can ever be treated (pleasure life)
Our women are like jewels, we wrap them in Hijab and don't use them as entertainment toys for others.
I don't know what kind of freedom you are refering to, because I'm picturing hundreds of women from my family and I can see their happy lives. Not in Kabul or any other big city, but small villages where everyone is illiterate.

you can only speak for yourself... don't speak for every pashtoon woman!

ayub
07-26-2010, 07:37 PM
No personal attacks please.

-The Staff

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 07:41 PM
you can only speak for yourself... don't speak for every pashtoon woman!

I am speaking for my women :)

ayub
07-26-2010, 07:43 PM
^how many women do you have? lol

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 07:53 PM
^^
kho khola de sama nada,
Pashtu ke yow matal dai

wai

"khola ham Qala da, ham bala"

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 10:09 PM
Master Khan, think twice about what you said. You do know you need permission from your 1st wife right?

Dear sister, a man does not need to ask his first wife if he wants to marry a second wife; however, the first wife can use the second wife as a reason for divorce.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 10:15 PM
iNot, if the necessity is there, like war or gender ratio control. For example, after WWII, it would have helped Europe a lot of men had taken more wives.

Also, if a woman knows the custom of the area then she should ask for it to be put in the nikaah that she does not want him to marry anyone else.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Marrying a second wife is not a custom and should never be one. Islam never intended for it to ever become a hobby for men.

It is a clause set out in the Quran for the benefit of mankind.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 10:19 PM
Marrying a second wife is not a custom and should never be one. Islam never intended for it to ever become a hobby for men.

It is a clause set out in the Quran for the benefit of mankind.


Nobody called it a hobby.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 10:25 PM
Well, that is the feeling one gets reading the posts on this thread.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:14 PM
Well, that is the feeling one gets reading the posts on this thread.

well, one shouldn't feel that way, everything is obvious. We are not trying to make it look like a hobby God forbid.

Mayana
07-26-2010, 11:16 PM
Maaan..
I know a guy who lives in Europe and has 3 wives.. well 2 now. He had two of them living together with him in Europe; they had to rent 4 3-bedroom-apartments on two stories to fit all the children lol and as if those two weren't enough, he had a third wife in Pakistan that he'd visit once in a while. It was SO wrong.
One of the wives living with him in Europe ended up leaving him.. because of how he treated her..

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:31 PM
Momin in Afghanistan people have multiple wives cause without them marrying them they will never be settled.

Who will never be settled, the men or the women?

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:32 PM
well, one shouldn't feel that way, everything is obvious. We are not trying to make it look like a hobby God forbid.

Dear brother, having multiple wives was never meant to be a culture. It should be practiced with the fear of Allah and the betterment of society in mind.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:33 PM
^If that is the case then it is halal and permitted by Allah.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:33 PM
Maaan..
I know a guy who lives in Europe and has 3 wives.. well 2 now. He had two of them living together with him in Europe; they had to rent 4 3-bedroom-apartments on two stories to fit all the children lol and as if those two weren't enough, he had a third wife in Pakistan that he'd visit once in a while. It was SO wrong.
One of the wives living with him in Europe ended up leaving him.. because of how he treated her..


Yeah, his kids are not going to be fun, once they grow up. If he really did what you said.

Mayana
07-26-2010, 11:38 PM
Yeah, his kids are not going to be fun, once they grow up. If he really did what you said.

No mashAllah subhanAllah his children are the most amazing, the most intelligent, the most talented, the most achieving individuals I have ever met. They graduate from schools and universities among the top 20 of the country, his daughter is a doctor, his sons are engineers and doctors. But that's not even what you measure character by. They have such amazing principles, such strong personalities.. such an impressive understanding of Islam.. that all you can do is stand in front of them in awe.
And all this is due to the mothers, may Allah bless them and reward them for all their struggles and pain, inshAllah.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:40 PM
Have you presented a paradox or a contradiction, dearest Mayana?

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:41 PM
No mashAllah subhanAllah his children are the most amazing, the most intelligent, the most talented, the most achieving individuals I have ever met. They graduate from schools and universities among the top 20 of the country, his daughter is a doctor, his sons are engineers and doctors. But that's not even what you measure character by. They have such amazing principles, such strong personalities.. such an impressive understanding of Islam.. that all you can do is stand in front of them in awe.
And all this is due to the mothers, may Allah bless them and reward them for all their struggles and pain, inshAllah.

Exactly, thats' why I tell people to marry more than one wife, the rest is in Allah's hands :)

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:47 PM
Exactly, thats' why I tell people to marry more than one wife, the rest is in Allah's hands :)
You actually tell people that? You are very brave dear brother.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:48 PM
Exactly, thats' why I tell people to marry more than one wife, the rest is in Allah's hands :)

Yes.

Millatpal Noorzai
07-26-2010, 11:50 PM
ودونه کړه ودونه دوه ؤ دری دغه دی شپی دی
پښتون لالا په دی کار کی میندلی ښی مزی دی

Thread reminded me of a song sung by Abdullah Maquri regarding the tradition of polygamy in Pashtuns.
I personally think,there is nothing wrong with it.
U.S. Constitution needs to be amended in this aspect :)

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:54 PM
You actually tell people that? You are very brave dear brother.

I don't understand whats brave about this?

Getting married once, twice or three times, they all are the same.

Haven't you spoke or encouraged anyone to get married? (it doesn't has to be two wives)

I just think that if one is fair enough (to treat them equally) , should marry more than one wive.

Getting married once or getting married twice is the same, both are equal and Islamic processes.

There is nothing strange about it, in fact we have made it look like it's a strange deal.

Mayana
07-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Have you presented a paradox or a contradiction, dearest Mayana?

Not that I know.. no.

Exactly, thats' why I tell people to marry more than one wife, the rest is in Allah's hands :)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
They are not like that because their dad couldn't hold his horses together.
They are like that because they were lucky to have such an amazing mother. Had they not, they'd have become some mentally challenged, dense children of a man who fathered a few dozen children and wasn't even capable of raising a single one.

He didn't marry the women to "stabilize" their standing in society. He married them because he believed it was his God given right and DUTY to marry 4 women and that he must marry four women, no matter if he cant take care of them or not, no matter if he can even live with all of them or not, no matter if he can even afford to have that many children or not.
He married out of pure lust.

Zarawar
07-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Not that I know.. no.



LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
They are not like that because their dad couldn't hold his horses together.
They are like that because they were lucky to have such an amazing mother. Had they not, they'd have become some mentally challenged, dense children of a man who fathered a few dozen children and wasn't even capable of raising a single one.

He didn't marry the women to "stabilize" their standing in society. He married them because he believed it was his God given right and DUTY to marry 4 women and that he must marry four women, no matter if he cant take care of them or not, no matter if he can even live with all of them or not, no matter if he can even afford to have that many children or not.
He married out of pure lust.


Khorey,

pashtu matal dai

"ghwa ka tora da, shodey ye speeney dee"

It sums up what you just said...

Oh and quite back biting people. I bet he isn't as bad as you are trying to make him.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:59 PM
Not that I know.. no.



LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
They are not like that because their dad couldn't hold his horses together.
They are like that because they were lucky to have such an amazing mother. Had they not, they'd have become some mentally challenged, dense children of a man who fathered a few dozen children and wasn't even capable of raising a single one.

He didn't marry the women to "stabilize" their standing in society. He married them because he believed it was his God given right and DUTY to marry 4 women and that he must marry four women, no matter if he cant take care of them or not, no matter if he can even live with all of them or not, no matter if he can even afford to have that many children or not.
He married out of pure lust.

The mother is not to be given 100% credit. That is why I asked you whether, by mistake, you have presented a paradox or a contradiction.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-26-2010, 11:59 PM
Khorey,

pashtu matal dai

"ghwa ka tora da, shodey ye speeney dee"

It sums up what you just said...

Oh and quite back biting people. I bet he isn't as bad as you are trying to make him.

I did not understand the rest, but the bolded part is well said.

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 12:00 AM
The mother is not to be given 100% credit. That is why I asked you whether, by mistake, you have presented a paradox or a contradiction.

I'm not even going to try speaking for that guy, we don't even know the real story. She might be right, or she might be wrong.

Mayana
07-27-2010, 12:03 AM
Khorey,

pashtu matal dai

"ghwa ka tora da, shodey ye speeney dee"

It sums up what you just said...

Oh and quite back biting people. I bet he isn't as bad as you are trying to make him.

I like how you called it backbiting when I talked about him but didn't call it backbiting when I said she left him ;)
Allahu aleem about how he is and how he isn't. May Allah guide us all inshAllah.

The mother is not to be given 100% credit. That is why I asked you whether, by mistake, you have presented a paradox or a contradiction.

In this case, she is. And trust me - I never give a mother full credit, I am a daddy's girl. But in this case, trust me, she is to be given 100% credit for what she has made out of his children.

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 12:06 AM
I like how you called it backbiting when I talked about him but didn't call it backbiting when I said she left him ;)
Allahu aleem about how he is and how he isn't. May Allah guide us all inshAllah.



In this case, she is. And trust me - I never give a mother full credit, I am a daddy's girl. But in this case, trust me, she is to be given 100% credit for what she has made out of his children.

I called it back biting, because you wrapped this dude in nothing but bad deeds and gave his wives a good image.
The wife leaving him part, I didn't even notice lol

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 12:08 AM
In this case, she is. And trust me - I never give a mother full credit, I am a daddy's girl. But in this case, trust me, she is to be given 100% credit for what she has made out of his children.

But how? They each have 23 chromosomes from each parent. Not every child is intelligent and capable even if he or she put all of his or her efforts together and studied day and night. Plus, how can one do anything without the help of Allah? You can say that you give the mother a lot of credit.

However, my paradox/contradiction question had to do with the fact that a man who married multiple wives ended up helping society. Would you not say so?

Mayana
07-27-2010, 12:17 AM
I called it back biting, because you wrapped this dude in nothing but bad deeds and gave his wives a good image.
The wife leaving him part, I didn't even notice lol

:running: Exactly my point, wroraa. :tongue:
Allah is my witness I need not prove a thing to anyone but Him, inshAllah. =)

But how? They each have 23 chromosomes from each parent. Not every child is intelligent and capable even if he or she put all of his or her efforts together and studied day and night. Plus, how can one do anything without the help of Allah? You can say that you give the mother a lot of credit.

However, my paradox/contradiction question had to do with the fact that a man who married multiple wives ended up helping society. Would you not say so?

I don't think so. The mothers by chance were good women. Had they not been such, he could've easily have fathered 36 psychopaths due to the circumstances they grew up in.

What my point is that whatever the children turned out like was not because of the father marrying 3 women. It was because those 3 women happened to be good women - he fathered the children but did very little in actually raising them. Had he truly wanted to contribute to society, he could have done so by marrying one woman. No need to marry three women and have one sit all the way across the globe.

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 12:23 AM
Even when you marry one woman, most of the time it is her who raises that children, no?

Dwaim_Ghani_Khan
07-27-2010, 12:33 AM
guys u have stepped into the issue of oediphal and electra complexes as described by sigmond freud.. a girl cant help lovin har dad no matter how many skies fall, so is a boy who wil side with his mom against all odds. the issue here is two three or four marriages. in my view the reasons are

1. lack of physical capacity in the wake of the polluted food stuff eaten by men in this so called modern age as against the men of the past who use to consume a complete pitcher of water in one go..

2. women's want for ease and facilities like AC and heated rooms which a man cant afford as against the men of the past whose wives never demanded any such facilitation..

3. impact of media on the minds both of men and women cos love has been idealized rather realized...

4. act on the knowledge of Quran is extinct in these days.. cos Quran says "masnaa wa sulaasa wa rubaa" but our women wont ever agree to this quranic verse.. many men can afford even 10 wives, but their 1st wife wont allow him to do even the 2nd...

hope my point is clear enough..

Regards,

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 12:37 AM
Can the next person relate this question to Auguste comte?

Awal ye Max weber well,
Bya Sigmond Frued show

looks like everyone is a sociologist in here...

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 12:38 AM
:running: Exactly my point, wroraa. :tongue:
Allah is my witness I need not prove a thing to anyone but Him, inshAllah. =)



I don't think so. The mothers by chance were good women. Had they not been such, he could've easily have fathered 36 psychopaths due to the circumstances they grew up in.

What my point is that whatever the children turned out like was not because of the father marrying 3 women. It was because those 3 women happened to be good women - he fathered the children but did very little in actually raising them. Had he truly wanted to contribute to society, he could have done so by marrying one woman. No need to marry three women and have one sit all the way across the globe.

I dont get you

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 12:46 AM
Ghani Khana, aslee Ghani khan ya, good post wrora.


Zarawara dont you love PF lol? We have psychologists, atheists, sociologists,nationalists,biologists,doctors lol.

This is what happens when you make these good threads. :)


I asked my dad about this and he said this is popular only in the villages.

Da atheist de pa haya na3lat sheee

Aw pa agha rozana chey doi ta ye mor aw plar warkarey

Be adabi ma3f thats something I cannot stand, and I wish to hurt someone's feelings by saying this.

Manana

Roshina
07-27-2010, 02:04 AM
Sure ... though they're very relevant, and I'm sure we'd end up have the same discussion in both threads . . . no?

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 09:41 AM
Zarawar thank God this custom is no longer as possible as it was in the past in my opinion.

Well,

A very small number of Pashtuns are outside their native lands, millions still practice this.
But, I do agree with the problems it comes with, specially if the poor girl is forced to marry.

I have uncles that have 2 3 and 4 wives, and they just got married.

Last time I checked one had 18 and the other had 22 kids.

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Well,

A very small number of Pashtuns are outside their native lands, millions still practice this.
But, I do agree with the problems it comes with, specially if the poor girl is forced to marry.

I have uncles that have 2 3 and 4 wives, and they just got married.

Last time I checked one had 18 and the other had 22 kids.


whats the big deal about having too many children... so that they stay uneducated, don't get enough food to eat, one becomes charsi, another sharabi... brother! its better to have 2 or 3 kids and raise them well and i think people that can't afford to have children and raise them well shouldn't even have kids.

now u r gonna say that ur uncles are filthy rich and his 22 kids are all doctors and engineers... whatever... not everyone is like that. i have seen many many families back home having 5 or 6 kids but can't even feed them.

Master Khan
07-27-2010, 01:25 PM
your acting as though your doing some kind of favour on them.
Well I am if you think more about it.
Master Khan, think twice about what you said. You do know you need permission from your 1st wife right?
I will and I am sure she won't mind:hug1".

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 01:34 PM
whats the big deal about having too many children... so that they stay uneducated, don't get enough food to eat, one becomes charsi, another sharabi... brother! its better to have 2 or 3 kids and raise them well and i think people that can't afford to have children and raise them well shouldn't even have kids.

now u r gonna say that ur uncles are filthy rich and his 22 kids are all doctors and engineers... whatever... not everyone is like that. i have seen many many families back home having 5 or 6 kids but can't even feed them.

Feroza khorey,
you have a point..

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 01:35 PM
whats the big deal about having too many children... so that they stay uneducated, don't get enough food to eat, one becomes charsi, another sharabi... brother! its better to have 2 or 3 kids and raise them well and i think people that can't afford to have children and raise them well shouldn't even have kids.

now u r gonna say that ur uncles are filthy rich and his 22 kids are all doctors and engineers... whatever... not everyone is like that. i have seen many many families back home having 5 or 6 kids but can't even feed them.

This is something which the Quran objects to.

The key is to maintain a life where all the basic needs are met.

Master Khan
07-27-2010, 01:37 PM
everyone is allowed to have kids but you got to be a men to rise them

Only a fool can make a baby but a men can rise one.

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:06 PM
This is something which the Quran objects to.

The key is to maintain a life where all the basic needs are met.

i consider education and even higher education a very basic need!

Master Khan
07-27-2010, 03:16 PM
i consider education and even higher education a very basic need!
Yes English is important...umm.. How about a second wife here in UK :).

ayub
07-27-2010, 03:18 PM
^ shao, I don't think u could handle 2 wives. Better stick with the video games. ;)

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 03:22 PM
i consider education and even higher education a very basic need!

Dear sister, you are saying that if someone can't send their kids to school that they should not have kids at all? I guess each to his or her own. But as Muslims not being able to afford kids should not prevent us from having kids.

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:23 PM
Yes English is important...umm.. How about a second wife here in UK :).

urdu kei matal shta kana

"jo garajtay hain woh barastay nahi"

Khudai khabar ta la khpal fiancee na tsomra werege lollll! hahaha

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:26 PM
Dear sister, you are saying that if someone can't send their kids to school that they should not have kids at all?

Dear brother. i don't think i can decide for other people refering to your word "someon"... the someones can do whatever they please... but i personally think i wouldn't want to have kids if i couldn't afford their education.

gone r the days when Hazrat Adam a.s. and Bibi Hawa had to keep making children to fill the earth...

we barely have space on this earth... why keep producing? isn't 2 or 3 enough if one can't afford it.

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Dear brother. i don't think i can decide for other people refering to your word "someon"... the someones can do whatever they please... but i personally think i wouldn't want to have kids if i couldn't afford their education.

gone r the days when Hazrat Adam a.s. and Bibi Hawa had to keep making children to fill the earth...

we barely have space on this earth... why keep producing? isn't 2 or 3 enough if one can't afford it.

yeah, she's right. We should produce robots from now on.
To the hell with kids, let's pick up materialism.
Put an end to the human race..

DEMOCRACY ALL THE WAY!!!!

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 03:36 PM
Dear brother. i don't think i can decide for other people refering to your word "someon"... the someones can do whatever they please... but i personally think i wouldn't want to have kids if i couldn't afford their education.

gone r the days when Hazrat Adam a.s. and Bibi Hawa had to keep making children to fill the earth...

we barely have space on this earth... why keep producing? isn't 2 or 3 enough if one can't afford it.

Well, then the question of extinction of a species come into play. Further, not being able to afford kids is not a valid reason, Islamically. Not being able to raise good moral children is a different issue. There is a difference between them.

Saifullah
07-27-2010, 03:37 PM
The more kids the better...i wanna inshallah make a football team with my kids

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 03:38 PM
^^ JAR SHAM,

za kho da khalqo ta wayam chey nasal zyat krai : )

MeemWawMeemNoon
07-27-2010, 03:39 PM
The more kids the better...i wanna inshallah make a football team with my kids

I always joke about that....lol...

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:42 PM
yeah, she's right. We should produce robots from now on.
To the hell with kids, let's pick up materialism.
Put an end to the human race..

DEMOCRACY ALL THE WAY!!!!

Please use ur brain when responding... ALlah has given it to you to use it... it seems like u have stored it in a freezer or something... yakhai ye wahalai dai...

why do i keep forgetting... many pashtoons suffer from lack of logic and practicality, hence the current state of pashtoons... instead of making decision derived from reasoning... we make decision based on our emotional feelings...

if u don't have anything smart to say ... dont respond to me.

Master Khan
07-27-2010, 03:45 PM
urdu kei matal shta kana

"jo garajtay hain woh barastay nahi"

Khudai khabar ta la khpal fiancee na tsomra werege lollll! hahaha
Zho bi deeeeeer manyam!!, Shao Khan can handle anything.
^ shao, I don't think u could handle 2 wives. Better stick with the video games. ;)
lol I only play video so I can KILL KILL KILL!!

Zarawar
07-27-2010, 03:47 PM
Please use ur brain when responding... ALlah has given it to you to use it... it seems like u have stored it in a freezer or something... yakhai ye wahalai dai...

why do i keep forgetting... many pashtoons suffer from lack of logic and practicality, hence the current state of pashtoons... instead of making decision derived from reasoning... we make decision based on our emotional feelings...

if u don't have anything smart to say ... dont respond to me.

I was trying to be funny about materialism, didn't mean to offend you.

Dera bakhshana ghwaram, taso Afghani khwandey kho demog da sar stargey yai.

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:48 PM
Well, then the question of extinction of a species come into play. Further, not being able to afford kids is not a valid reason, Islamically. Not being able to raise good moral children is a different issue. There is a difference between them.

It is quite difficult task to raise kids islamically too... 2 compared to 10. especially if u are living outside Islamic country. in California there are Islami based academic grade schools but the fee is very high. If i have 2 kids i can afford it rather than sending them to public school which is like a jungle... i can send them to Islamic school where they can get their Islamic education and acadamic education. now i can't do that if i have 5 kids... or 10.

one has to realize that each kid needs full attention from both parents, mother and father... not only attention, love!... I think raising a kid Islamically also means raising them with utmost attention and love... and 2 compared to 10 is difficult.

Kids are extremely sensitive i am sure u know that... raising them in a way that you can't meet their certain needs or they feel inferior to the kids they even play with will effect their mind alot.

Master Khan
07-27-2010, 03:49 PM
What if that second women really wants you e.g. she can't live without you.then what?

Feroza_Banu
07-27-2010, 03:53 PM
I was trying to be funny about materialism, didn't mean to offend you.

Dera bakhshana ghwaram, taso Afghani khwandey kho demog da sar stargey yai.

oh, how rude of me then... za bakhana ghwarram... it is quite difficult to sense humor from behind a computer screen...

dera manena... zma afghan wrona ham zma da zrra totai dei... :lal29:

IamDZJ
07-27-2010, 09:51 PM
it's very plain and simple. if you can overlook your wife's desire for a second husband then by all means..go ahead. if you can't then whatever the blank makes you think you can wake up one fine morning and decide you want another wife?!
now, if you are taking some one in because of her situation..whatever it might be...and you are sure that you can be fair to your first wife then..okay...

and women who think being a pashtana requires compromising with husbands of such type...well sister..truth be told, you do not deserve an ounce of happiness so why don't you wipe your nose in the back on your sleeves some more and get it over with...