View Full Version : Kashmir


JattApache
07-13-2012, 04:12 PM
http://indiaadvices.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jammu-and-kashmir-weather-01.jpg

http://www.theindiatrips.com/images/kashmir-paradise.jpg

http://www.kashmironline.net/images/kashmir_tulip_garden.JPG

http://www.gulmarg.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/on-way-to-gulmarg.jpg

http://desicolours.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/j-k13.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3224/3143038715_249d157d3f.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9-xi5n9m3E/S_TBqTQHxDI/AAAAAAAAGB8/5KvbzLXwj4s/s1600/Toli_pir_Rawalakot_Azad_kashmir_.jpg

Talal
07-13-2012, 06:55 PM
First one, Chitta Katha Lake, AJK Pakistan

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:01 PM
First one, Chitta Katha Lake, AJK Pakistan

What a horrible name.

It should have a pleasant name like Saiful Malook or others.

Karachi
07-13-2012, 11:06 PM
all these beautiful areas up north, neither india or pakistan deserve

faye
07-13-2012, 11:08 PM
i missed going there in the 70's. i regret not going to kashmir, swat/hunza and kabul.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:10 PM
all these beautiful areas up north, neither india or pakistan deserve

Both deserve it because they should be one country, with Pashtuno-Baluchistan returned to the Afghans.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:12 PM
i missed going there in the 70's. i regret not going to kashmir, swat/hunza and kabul.

I am not a particularly big fan or Kashmir but Hunza is nice.

Swat is okay as well. Dir is better.

Kabul I never been.

faye
07-13-2012, 11:14 PM
freedom for kashmir from these 2 incompetants!!!

Karachi
07-13-2012, 11:21 PM
Both deserve it because they should be one country, with Pashtuno-Baluchistan returned to the Afghans.

not really, kashmir should be part of the (dardistan) nation, which also includes places like hunza, gilgit and the kalash areas etc...

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:21 PM
freedom for kashmir from these 2 incompetants!!!

Saying that is a punishable offence in both countires.

I once said that, with a Kashmiri friend in a Pakistani school.
She had to go for "treason" and i was "conspiring against the nation".
Not something you want to do as it involves painstaking Pakistan Studies classes.

Nevertheless, Kashmir is rightfully a part of Hindustan.

India and Pakistan is Hindustan.

India is an English word, while Pakistan is an English experiment.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:25 PM
not really, kashmir should be part of the (dardistan) nation, which also includes places like hunza, gilgit and the kalash areas etc...

Hunza and Gilgit have nothing to do with Dardics and neither does Kashmir.

Kalash, Chitralis (Khowar-speakers) and Nuristanis/Pashayis are Dardic.

Hunza is Wakhi (Pamiri Tajik) and Burusho predominently, same with Gilgit.

Kashmiris are heavily Persianized Indics, with some Punjabis and Pashtuns.

Karachi
07-13-2012, 11:25 PM
Saying that is a punishable offence in both countires.

I once said that, with a Kashmiri friend in a Pakistani school.
She had to go for "treason" and i was "conspiring against the nation".
Not something you want to do as it involves painstaking Pakistan Studies classes.

Nevertheless, Kashmir is rightfully a part of Hindustan.

India and Pakistan is Hindustan.

India is an English word, while Pakistan is an English experiment.


how so? I agree they were hindus at one point but their culture/language have always been pretty different from main land indians.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:29 PM
how so? I agree they were hindus at one point but their culture/language have always been pretty different from main land indians.

It was all Hindustan until the British deliberately left the Kashmir issue unsolved to create further tension and division between the new states of Pakistan and India.

Karachi
07-13-2012, 11:31 PM
btw kashmiri is a dardic language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardic_languages

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:33 PM
btw kashmiri is a dardic language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardic_languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardic_languages)

Kashmiri itself is a rare language in Pakistan.

Punjabi with a lot of Farsi, that's what all the Kashmiris I have ever met spoke.

faye
07-13-2012, 11:37 PM
it was probably all 'nothingstan' until someone declared it 'hindustan', lol.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:43 PM
it was probably all 'nothingstan' until someone declared it 'hindustan', lol.

No, it was Bharat or Desh back then.

Karachi
07-13-2012, 11:53 PM
Kashmiri itself is a rare language in Pakistan.

Punjabi with a lot of Farsi, that's what all the Kashmiris I have ever met spoke.


I think you are talking about Mirpuri from Azad Kashmir, yes that is basically punjabi, but I am talking about real Kashmiri language from the valley called "koshur"

^ that sounds nothing like punjabi

also Kashmir I believe was independent before some Sikh empire captured it.

faye
07-13-2012, 11:55 PM
well the kashmiris should be allowed to choose if they want to be ruled by anyone or be independent. full stop.
why is kashmir so strategically important? i read somewhere, that it is. beacause of connect to china?

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:58 PM
well the kashmiris should be allowed to choose if they want to be ruled by anyone or be independent. full stop.
why is kashmir so strategically important? i read somewhere, that it is. beacause of connect to china?

Yes, because China, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan are all connected to it.

Kashmir cannot work as an independent nation.

India or Pakistan, pick your poison.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-13-2012, 11:59 PM
I think you are talking about Mirpuri from Azad Kashmir, yes that is basically punjabi, but I am talking about real Kashmiri language from the valley called "koshur"

^ that sounds nothing like punjabi

also Kashmir I believe was independent before some Sikh empire captured it.

I have mainly met Mirpuris and some other people from Azad Kashmir.

Kashmir was respected by all the rulers.

faye
07-14-2012, 12:02 AM
you mean others won't let it be independent, not that it can't be.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-14-2012, 12:07 AM
you mean others won't let it be independent, not that it can't be.

It is highly unlikely Kashmir will become independent and if it did, it would be a mess.

Its a small place with a small population of various ethnic groups and religions.

Do you want another Pakistan? That is what would happen if a seperate state of Kashmir was made.

Adam
07-14-2012, 12:14 AM
Let the Kashmiris join us

http://ismica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/NME-AfPak-Front1.jpg

faye
07-14-2012, 12:15 AM
the kashmiri men i met, all seemed very smart and cool. i spent lots of days chatting with these guys as i was trying to charm them for good prices on some afghan jewellery that i was going to buy, plus they are intelligent and charming men. good company.
actually, they are probably the best businessmen in india. better even than the tibetans, lol.

well, hakim, that is not a good opinion of the kashmiris capabilities, if given the chance.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-14-2012, 12:17 AM
Let the Kashmiris join us

http://ismica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/NME-AfPak-Front1.jpg

Free Baluchistan?

I will support that as long as they give us marine benefits.

Baloch are good people so they probably will.

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-14-2012, 12:20 AM
the kashmiri men i met, all seemed very smart and cool. i spent lots of days chatting with these guys as i was trying to charm them for good prices on some afghan jewellery that i was going to buy, plus they are intelligent and charming men. good company.
actually, they are probably the best businessmen in india. better even than the tibetans, lol.

well, hakim, that is not a good opinion of the kashmiris capabilities, if given the chance.

I do not believe in the division of lands, especially small lands.

That is why I am against it, I do not doubt the Kashmiri's business strategies.

faye
07-14-2012, 12:39 AM
ok. hakim doesn't believe in a small country having it's independence, i will tell the
kashmiris they should forget it. right.
but you want to steal baluchistan.;)

Hakim Khan Urgonai
07-14-2012, 12:44 AM
ok. hakim doesn't believe in a small country having it's independence, i will tell the
kashmiris they should forget it. right.
but you want to steal baluchistan.;)

I have told them and they respect my view. Some agree, some want indpendence.

I believe it will be a loss to further divide people.

That Baluchistan was originally ours, so I am reclaiming and not stealing.
They should be free like the Kurds, they are a strong nation.

OK Kashmir can be free too, I will move there and watch them.

faye
07-14-2012, 01:04 AM
checkmate!

torkham
07-14-2012, 06:02 AM
I met sardar Ibrahim khan suddan in rawlakot back in 1994. He was the first president of Kashmir that is linked to Pakistan. He told me that suddan people of western Kashmir are of afghan ancestry. Suddan referring to sadozai. (personally I doubt it as there are no language or cultural remnants to even remotely link Pashtun ancestry with sudhan of AJK - another afghan aspiration).

In homes the rawlakot Kashmiri speak pahari, which is quite distinct from mirpuri and kotli people who speak a dialect of punjabi/lahnda. Pahari is spoken behond muzafarabad, towards poonch, binjusa, rawlakot, rehara areas.

Kashmiri is even more linguistically remote language.

JattApache
07-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Kashmiri itself is a rare language in Pakistan.

Punjabi with a lot of Farsi, that's what all the Kashmiris I have ever met spoke.

Well only the mirpuris speak punjabi in kashmir, punjabi is also used near jammu.
Because mirpruris ARE punjabis, mirpur was a gift given by Ranjit singh to the kashmiri raja.

I don't want to create a debate about pakistan/india. I'm not an extremist,
Pakistani have their own kashmir ( AJK, northern areas )
Indians have their own kashmir ( Jammu&kashmir, Ladakh )

If kashmir become an independant state, it will be a very poor country.

asad71
07-14-2012, 10:04 AM
http://indiaadvices.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jammu-and-kashmir-weather-01.jpg

http://www.theindiatrips.com/images/kashmir-paradise.jpg

http://www.kashmironline.net/images/kashmir_tulip_garden.JPG

http://www.gulmarg.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/on-way-to-gulmarg.jpg

http://desicolours.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/j-k13.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3224/3143038715_249d157d3f.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9-xi5n9m3E/S_TBqTQHxDI/AAAAAAAAGB8/5KvbzLXwj4s/s1600/Toli_pir_Rawalakot_Azad_kashmir_.jpg

Kashmiris are fond of saying, if you haven't traveled the Jammu - Srinagar Road then you haven't been born!

asad71
07-14-2012, 11:17 AM
I met sardar Ibrahim khan suddan in rawlakot back in 1994. He was the first president of Kashmir that is linked to Pakistan. He told me that suddan people of western Kashmir are of afghan ancestry. Suddan referring to sadozai.

In homes the rawlakot Kashmiri speak pahari, which is quite distinct from mirpuri and kotli people who speak a dialect of punjabi/lahnda. Pahari is spoken behond muzafarabad, towards poonch, binjusa, rawlakot, rehara areas.

Kashmiri is even more linguistically remote language.

Pre-Mujahedeen days the Kashmiris were considered peaceable who avoided violence. The British had termed them "non-martial". Only the Suddans were considered a warlike lot. In 1950s the Suddans had revolted against Pakistani irregularities. A lot of them were killed in that revilt.

Master Khan
07-14-2012, 03:13 PM
Kashmir should have independence from Pakiz and Indians.
Both Countries don't deserve it.

A.Alraeesi
07-14-2012, 03:50 PM
I had a Kashmiri teacher who used to tell us stories about Kashmir and how beautiful is Kashmir :)

JattApache
07-18-2012, 04:48 PM
http://freepresskashmir.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Kashmir-Valley.jpeg

faye
07-18-2012, 09:30 PM
Well only the mirpuris speak punjabi in kashmir, punjabi is also used near jammu.
Because mirpruris ARE punjabis, mirpur was a gift given by Ranjit singh to the kashmiri raja.

I don't want to create a debate about pakistan/india. I'm not an extremist,
Pakistani have their own kashmir ( AJK, northern areas )
Indians have their own kashmir ( Jammu&kashmir, Ladakh )

If kashmir become an independant state, it will be a very poor country.
why would kashmir become poor? isn't it poor at the moment?
maybe it would get support from others, like china, to develop.
it did have and still has, great potential for tourism, which can be good economically, but while india and pakistan each have 'their piece of the pie' as you point out, kashmir will remain a sad case. no one wants to go to kashmir while these 2 governments are being morons and squabbling over it.

JattApache
07-22-2012, 07:35 AM
how so? I agree they were hindus at one point but their culture/language have always been pretty different from main land indians.

Well, all the teritories east/south of the Indus river form part of the indic/hindustani heritage.

http://peakwater.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/indusriver1.gif

Karachi
07-22-2012, 12:00 PM
^ historically maybe, but that's not true for today, a place like Srinagar is defiantly not indic, even western areas of punjab near the indus are somewhat pashtun/baloch influenced

JattApache
07-22-2012, 12:12 PM
^ historically maybe, but that's not true for today, a place like Srinagar is defiantly not indic, even western areas of punjab near the indus are somewhat pashtun/baloch influenced

They are humans, this is the most important thing, no karachi ?

Karachi
07-22-2012, 12:40 PM
^ that's not the argument here einstein

JattApache
07-22-2012, 01:13 PM
^ that's not the argument here einstein

It wasn't an argument einstein , it's a fact.