View Full Version : Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban


MeemWawMeemNoon
06-12-2010, 11:49 PM
A new report claims to provide the most concrete evidence yet of direct links between Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The report says the ISI is providing funding, training and sanctuary to the Taliban on a scale much larger than previously thought.


The document was prepared by the London School of Economics (LSE).



A spokesman for Pakistan's military rejected the claims as part of a malicious campaign against the country.



'Rubbish'

The report's author spoke to nine Taliban field commanders in Afghanistan earlier this year.



He concludes that Pakistan's relationship with the insturgents runs far deeper than previously realised.



Some of those interviewed suggested that the ISI even attends meetings of the Taliban's supreme council. They claim that by backing the insurgents Pakistan's security service is trying to undermine Indian influence in Afghanistan.



The report concludes that without a significant change in approach by Pakistan, both the Afghan government and international community will find it impossible to end the insurgency in Afghanistan.



The spokesman for Pakistan's military said the claims were "rubbish" and part of a malicious campaign against the country's military and security agencies.





LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/10302946.stm)

tor_khan
06-12-2010, 11:54 PM
The entire world knows this and yet ... ??? Why is it in the world's interest to not stir the hornets nest?

MeemWawMeemNoon
06-12-2010, 11:56 PM
The entire world knows this and yet ... ??? Why is it in the world's interest to not stir the hornets nest?


Beats me. They need Pakistan?

Admin Khan
06-12-2010, 11:57 PM
This is an open secret by now.

MeemWawMeemNoon
06-12-2010, 11:59 PM
Unless if you're a Taliban supporter. ;)

AfghanSoulja
06-13-2010, 12:12 AM
i wanna read this report anybody got a link ?

AfghanSoulja
06-13-2010, 12:52 AM
That's a news link I want to read the actual report published by London school of economics

tor_khan
06-13-2010, 12:53 AM
Tor Khan, I am confused with what you are trying to say.

Salaam Handsome ...

Basically, it's not even an open secret. The reason is there's nothing secretive about it.

Everyone knows - everyone - ISI + Taliban = :shakeshand:

It's not even funny. What I don't understand is why the world just chooses to stands by with this knowledge.

tor_khan
06-13-2010, 01:22 AM
So Tor Khan, You think ISI created Taliban? Not the one eyed Kandahari from Arghandab who was the founder,leader and the present Emir? (Mullah Omar)

The thing is somebody/entity breathed life into the Taliban. Mullah Omar was instrumental, but he had backers. He alone was not able to create the Taliban single-handedly.

Similarly, Jinnah alone didn't 'create' Pakistan. He had his backers and he was the figure-head.

Yes, the ISI very much nurtured the Taliban (for it's own interests). And the ISI? It doesn't care a hoot about Islam. It's sole function is the preservation of the privileges of the elite in Pakistan. Anti-India hysteria, intrusions into Afghanistan and the division of the Pashtoons stems from that.

Mayana
06-13-2010, 02:33 AM
I wish there was an option of thanking you for that post a million times.

It is evident that the Taliban do not care a bit about the well-being of Afghans or Afghanistan. Da Islam au Pashtoonwali pa Nama daghasi ghairi-islami au ghairi-pashtana Chamoona kayi au Nom ham da Pashtano au da Musulmanano badayi pa da Munafeqi, pa da fessat, pa da Shaytani.

Niazi
06-13-2010, 04:49 AM
So Tor Khan, You think ISI created Taliban? Not the one eyed Kandahari from Arghandab who was the founder,leader and the present Emir? (Mullah Omar)

Do you realy believe that one eyed idiot ,puppet created the movement ,he can't organize a piss up in brewry ,the people see the execution of seven year old boy jihad ,the group you concider some sort of worrier are merely toilet paper for ISI to wipe thier A&&& with.

Nadir Shah
06-13-2010, 04:57 AM
So Tor Khan, You think ISI created Taliban? Not the one eyed Kandahari from Arghandab who was the founder,leader and the present Emir? (Mullah Omar)

Nazia, you should read the statements of Nasirullah Babar and others regarding the creation of the Taliban. Col Imam used to sit in the Kandahar Shura. This fact has been mentioned by Maulana Shirani of the JUI. SSP and JEM from the Pakistani Madrassas from Southern Punjab were the foot soldiers of the Taliban in Mazar and Bamyan in 1998.

Nadir Shah
06-13-2010, 05:00 AM
The thing is somebody/entity breathed life into the Taliban. Mullah Omar was instrumental, but he had backers. He alone was not able to create the Taliban single-handedly.

Similarly, Jinnah alone didn't 'create' Pakistan. He had his backers and he was the figure-head.

Yes, the ISI very much nurtured the Taliban (for it's own interests). And the ISI? It doesn't care a hoot about Islam. It's sole function is the preservation of the privileges of the elite in Pakistan. Anti-India hysteria, intrusions into Afghanistan and the division of the Pashtoons stems from that.

Malgariya,
Afghanistan was supposed to be the testing ground for Punjab-controlled radical Muslim states in Central Asia which were supposed to be the strategic reserve in case of wars against India and for trade concessions. Nasirullah Babar once led a trade caravan through Kandahar and Herat to Tajikistan in 1998, I think it was.

Niazi
06-13-2010, 05:06 AM
Oh Babor claim ancestry from Kandahar how interesting,btw I hate that babor he killed more Afghan then Russain.

Nadir Shah
06-13-2010, 05:06 AM
THE Taliban commander waited at the ramshackle border crossing while Pakistani police wielding assault rifles stopped and searched the line of cars and trucks travelling into Afghanistan.
Some of the trucks carried smuggled goods — DVD players, car stereos, television sets, generators, children’s toys. But the load smuggled by Taliban fighter Qari Rasoul, a thickset Pashtun from Afghanistan’s Wardak province, was altogether more sinister.
Rasoul’s boot was full of remote-control triggers used to detonate the home-made bombs responsible for the vast majority of Nato casualties in Afghanistan. The three passengers sitting in his white Toyota estate were suicide bombers.
The policemen flagged down Rasoul’s car and began to search it. They soon found the triggers, hidden beneath a bundle of clothes in the back of the estate. They asked him who he was and who the triggers belonged to. “I’m a Taliban commander. They belong to me,” he told them.
Related Links




Officers’ mess: Afghanistan was a ‘deeply flawed gamble’ (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7146449.ece)



Blundering in, eyes shut and fingers crossed (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7146434.ece)




Two policemen took Rasoul into their office in Chaman, a small town that borders Kandahar province in southern Afghanistan, and sat him down on a wooden chair.
Instead of arresting him, the elder policeman rubbed his thumb and index finger together and, smiling, said: “Try to understand.”
Rasoul phoned a Pakistani friend. Two hours later he was released, having paid the policemen 5,000 Pakistani rupees, the equivalent of about £40, each.
“That was the only time I ever faced problems crossing the border with Pakistan,” said Rasoul, who is responsible for delivering suicide bombers trained in Pakistani camps to targets in Afghanistan.
Pakistani support for the Taliban in Afghanistan runs far deeper than a few corrupt police officers, however. The Sunday Times can reveal that it is officially sanctioned at the highest levels of Pakistan’s government.
Pakistan’s own intelligence agency, the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence), is said to be represented on the Taliban’s war council — the Quetta shura. Up to seven of the 15-man shura are believed to be ISI agents.
The former head of Afghanistan’s intelligence agency, Amrullah Saleh, who resigned last week, said: “The ISI is part of the landscape of destruction in this country, no doubt, so it will be a waste of time to provide evidence of ISI involvement. They are a part of it.”
Testimony by western and Afghan security officials, Taliban commanders, former Taliban ministers and a senior Taliban emissary show the extent to which the ISI manipulates the Taliban’s strategy in Afghanistan.
Pakistani support for the Taliban is prolonging a conflict that has cost the West billions of dollars and hundreds of lives. Last week 32 Nato soldiers were killed.
According to a report published today by the London School of Economics, which backs up months of research by this newspaper, “Pakistan appears to be playing a double game of astonishing magnitude” in Afghanistan.
The report’s author, Matt Waldman, a Harvard analyst, argues that previous studies significantly underestimated the influence that Pakistan’s ISI exerts over the Taliban. Far from being the work of rogue elements, interviews suggest this “support is official ISI policy”, he says.
The LSE report, based on dozens of interviews and corroborated by two senior western security officials, states: “As the provider of sanctuary and substantial financial, military and logistical support to the insurgency, the ISI appears to have strong strategic and operational influence — reinforced by coercion. There is thus a strong case that the ISI orchestrates, sustains and shapes the overall insurgent campaign.”
The report also alleges that Asif Ali Zardari, the president of Pakistan, recently met captured Taliban leaders to assure them that the Taliban had his government’s full support. This was vigorously denied by Zardari’s spokesman. Pakistani troops have launched offensives against militants in North and South Waziristan.
However, a senior Taliban source in regular contact with members of the Quetta shura told The Sunday Times that in early April, Zardari and a senior ISI official met 50 high-ranking Taliban members at a prison in Pakistan.
According to a Taliban leader in the jail at the time, five days before the meeting prison officials were told to prepare for the impending presidential call. Prison guards wearing dark glasses served the Taliban captives traditional Afghan meals three times a day.
“They wanted to make the prisoners feel like they were important and respected,” the source said.
Hours before Zardari’s visit, the head warder told the Taliban inmates to impress upon the president how well they had been looked after during their time in captivity.
Zardari spoke to them for half an hour. He allegedly explained that he had arrested them because his government was under increasing American pressure to end the sanctuary enjoyed by the Taliban in Pakistan and to round up their ringleaders.
“You are our people, we are friends, and after your release we will of course support you to do your operations,” he said, according to the source.
He vowed to release the less well-known commanders in the near future and said that the “famous” Taliban leaders would be freed at a later date.
Five days after Zardari’s visit, a handful of Taliban prisoners, including The Sunday Times’s source, were driven into Quetta and set free, in line with the president’s pledge.
“This report is consistent with Pakistan’s political history in which civilian leaders actively backed jihadi groups that operate in Afghanistan and Kashmir,” Waldman said.
According to the source, during his visit to the prison Zardari also met Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the Taliban’s former second in command, who was arrested by the ISI earlier this year with seven other Taliban leaders.
Baradar, who is from the same tribe as Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, had allegedly approached the Afghan government to discuss the prospect of a peace settlement between the two sides.
Baradar’s arrest is seen in both diplomatic and Taliban circles as an ISI plot to manipulate the Taliban’s political hierarchy and also to block negotiations between the Kabul government and the Taliban leadership.
Shortly after Baradar’s arrest the ISI arrested two other Taliban members — Mullah Abdul Qayyum Zakir and his close associate and friend Mullah Abdul Rauf. Both men were released after just two nights in custody.
Following his release, Zakir, who spent years in custody in Guantanamo Bay, assumed command of the Taliban’s military wing, replacing Baradar. Rauf, also a former Guantanamo inmate, was immediately appointed chairman of the Quetta shura.
“To say the least, this is compelling evidence of significant ISI influence over the movement and it is highly likely that the release was on ISI terms or at least on the basis of a mutual understanding,” the LSE report states.
The promotions of Zakir and Rauf will give Pakistan greater leverage over future peace talks, Taliban and western officials said.
To ensure that the Pakistani government retains its influence over the Taliban’s leadership, the ISI has placed its own representatives on the Quetta shura, according to these officials.
Up to seven of the Afghan Taliban leaders who sit on the 15-man shura are believed to be ISI agents. However, some sources maintain that every member of the shura has ISI links.
“It is impossible to be a member of the Quetta shura without membership of the ISI,” said a senior Taliban intermediary who liaises with the Afghan government and Taliban leaders.
The LSE report states: “Interviews strongly suggest that the ISI has representatives on the shura, either as participants or observers, and the agency is thus involved at the highest levels of the movement.”
The two shura members who receive the strongest support from the ISI are Taib Agha, former spokesman for Mullah Omar, the Taliban supreme leader, and Mullah Hasan Rahmani, the former Taliban governor of Kandahar, according to the Taliban intermediary and western officials.
Strategies that the ISI encourages, according to Taliban commanders, include: cutting Nato’s supply lines by bombing bridges and roads; attacking key infrastructure projects; assassinating progovernment tribal elders; murdering doctors and teachers; closing schools and attacking schoolgirls.
ISI agents hand chits to Taliban commanders who use them to buy weapons at arms dumps in North Waziristan.
The Taliban’s “plastic bombs” — the low metal content improvised explosive devices (IEDs) that kill the majority of British soldiers who die in Afghanistan — were introduced to the Taliban by Pakistani officials, according to Taliban commanders, the Taliban intermediary and western officials. The materials allow Taliban sappers to plant bombs that can evade Nato mine detectors.
Rasoul, the Taliban commander from Wardak province, also alleged that the ISI pays 200,000 Pakistani rupees (£1,600) in compensation to the families of suicide bombers who launch attacks on targets in Afghanistan.
“They need vehicles, fuel and food. They need ammunition. They need money and guns. They need clinics and medicine. So who is providing these things to the Taliban if it’s not Pakistan?” a former Kabul police chief said.
In the eastern province of Khost, one commander described how Pakistani military trucks picked his men up from training camps in Pakistan and ferried them to the Afghan border at night.
Once at the border, Pakistanis dressed in military uniform gave the commander a list of targets inside Afghanistan. Taliban fighters then ferried the weapons and ammunition into Afghanistan using cars, donkeys, horses and camels.
“We post our men along our supply routes to protect the convoys once they are on Afghan turf,” said the Khost commander. “The [US] drones sometimes bomb our convoys and many times they have bombed our ammo stores.”
Camps within Pakistan train Taliban fighters in three different sets of skills: suicide bombing, bomb-making and infantry tactics. Each camp focuses on a different skill.
Pakistan’s support for the Taliban has sparked friction between the home-grown Taliban groups and those who are bankrolled to a greater extent by the ISI.
Many lower-level commanders in Afghanistan are angered by the degree to which the ISI dictates their operations.
“The ISI-backed Taliban are destroying the country. Their suicide bombings are the ones that kill innocent civilians. They are undoing the infrastructure with their attacks,” said a Taliban commander from Kandahar province.
Most commanders said they resented their comrades who received the largest slice of ISI support. They also said they knew about the ISI’s influence over their senior leadership. “There is already mistrust among the low-level fighters and commanders,” the Taliban intermediary said. “But they don’t really know the extent of it. They don’t believe that our leaders are ISI spies.”
Major-General Athar Abbas, Pakistan’s senior military spokesman, called the claim that the ISI has representatives on the Quetta shura “ridiculous”. He said: “The allegations are absolutely baseless.”
Farhatullah Babar, a spokesman for the Pakistani president, said: “There’s no such thing as President Zardari meeting Taliban leaders. This never happened.”
To see the full London School of Economics report, go to thesundaytimes.co.uk/world (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/world)
The key player
Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) became enmeshed in Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion in 1979. The CIA used it to channel covert funds and weapons to Afghan mujaheddin groups fighting the Soviet army during the 10-year conflict.
A decisive factor in the Soviet defeat was the CIA’s decision to provide surface- to-air Stinger missiles.
Saudi Arabia, which, from the mid-1980s matched American funding for the insurgency dollar for dollar, also used the ISI to channel funds to the mujaheddin.
The American effort was promoted and supported by the late Texas congressman Charles Wilson, who fought to raise awareness and cash for the Afghan cause in the United States. His role was portrayed by Tom Hanks in the movie Charlie Wilson’s War.
The ISI continued to support groups of Afghan fighters long after the Russian withdrawal in 1989, often providing backing for brutal warlords in an attempt to install a pro-Pakistani government in Kabul.
The ISI backed the Taliban during their rise to power between 1994 and 1996. Pakistan’s prime minister at the time, Benazir Bhutto, believed the Taliban could stabilise Afghanistan.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 05:09 AM
Ive seen with my own eyes in North Waziristan, Taliban drinking Tea with Pakistan Army soldiers in Miram Shah Market. Why doesnt the media ask the people of Waziristan and they will all tell you the same thing, that Taliban and Pakistan Army are one, even Haqqanis taliban faction is very open with the Pakistan Army.

Without Pakistan, Taliban will have absolutely no resources nor freedom to operate and move.

Kind Regards

Niazi
06-13-2010, 05:16 AM
There's no side in Afghanistan who's not sold out ,that's why I always say disintegration is the answer ,let them join thier overlords and stop the suffering of innocences.

Levanaye Zalmaye
06-13-2010, 07:24 AM
Ive seen with my own eyes in North Waziristan, Taliban drinking Tea with Pakistan Army soldiers in Miram Shah Market. Why doesnt the media ask the people of Waziristan and they will all tell you the same thing, that Taliban and Pakistan Army are one, even Haqqanis taliban faction is very open with the Pakistan Army.

Without Pakistan, Taliban will have absolutely no resources nor freedom to operate and move.

Kind Regards

That's the thing though, isn't it? The Taliban are Pakistan's proxies who would ensure Pakistani hegemony in Afghanistan after the eventual NATO withdrawal. The Mehsud element has been, from what it seems, influenced by India to bite its master's hand. In response, the Pakistani-backed Afghan Taliban launched multiple attacks on Indian diplomatic establishments in Afghanistan. In response to the Mehsuds, the Pakistani Army, as AI's and other reports suggest, has been flattening everything in South Waziristan. At the end of the day, the real and only losers are Pashtuns.

tor_khan
06-13-2010, 08:05 AM
That's the thing though, isn't it? The Taliban are Pakistan's proxies who would ensure Pakistani hegemony in Afghanistan after the eventual NATO withdrawal. The Mehsud element has been, from what it seems, influenced by India to bite its master's hand. In response, the Pakistani-backed Afghan Taliban launched multiple attacks on Indian diplomatic establishments in Afghanistan. In response to the Mehsuds, the Pakistani Army, as AI's and other reports suggest, has been flattening everything in South Waziristan. At the end of the day, the real and only losers are Pashtuns.

And what of Pakistan? What are the checks and balances?

Is there anyone out there that is prepared to say/tell/guide/knock sense into the powers that be?

Musafira
06-13-2010, 08:11 AM
http://thecandideye.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/isi-taliban.jpg

SwatiTheBrave1
06-13-2010, 01:10 PM
ISI is a Pashtun dominated agency, read about them on history commons and also a recent article by Eric Margolas which speaks of high representation of Pashtuns in ISI.

ISI, many of whose officers are Pashtun, has every right to warn Pakistani citizens of impending US air attacks that kill large numbers of civilians. But ISI also has another vital mission. Preventing Pakistan's Pashtun, 15-20% of the population of 165 million, from rekindling the old `Greater Pashtunistan' movement calling for union of the Pashtun tribes of Pakistan and Afghanistan into a new Pashtun nation. The Pashtun have never recognized the Durand Line(today's Pakistan-Afghan border) drawn by British imperialists to sunder the world's largest tribal people. Greater Pashtunistan would tear apart Pakistan and invite Indian military intervention.

To Read Full Article, Click Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-margolis/blaming-pakistans-spies-f_b_117571.html)

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Another Source:

Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed, director of the Pakistani ISI since October 1999 (see October 12, 1999), is not considered especially religious. However, around this time he begins telling his colleagues that he has become a “born-again Muslim.” While he doesn’t make open gestures such as growing a beard, when US intelligence learns about this talk they find it foreboding and wonder what its impact on the ISI’s relations with the Taliban will be. Perhaps not coincidentally, around this time he begins meeting less frequently with CIA liaisons and becomes less cooperative with the US. [COLL, 2004, PP. 510-511] But if Mahmood becomes a fundamentalist Muslim, that would not be very unique in the ISI. As Slate will write shortly after 9/11, “many in the ISI loathe the United States. They view America as an unreliable and duplicitous ally, being especially resentful of the 1990 sanctions, which came one year after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan. Furthermore, the ISI is dominated by Pashtuns, the same tribe that is the Taliban’s base of support across the border in Afghanistan. Partly because of its family, clan, and business ties to the Taliban, the ISI, even more than Pakistani society in general, has become increasingly enamored of radical Islam in recent years.”

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 01:24 PM
ISI is a Pashtun dominated agency, read about them on history commons and also a recent article by Eric Margolas which speaks of high representation of Pashtuns in ISI.



To Read Full Article, Click Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-margolis/blaming-pakistans-spies-f_b_117571.html)

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Another Source:



What an oxy moron, when you mean ISI is dominated by Pashtuns, do you mean Taliban? hahaha, Swatithebrave1 i know your the same Pakistani faujan from Pak Defence forums, nobody who is sane is going to beleive ISI is dominated by majority by Pashtuns, What a stupid and desparate thing to say,

If for instance, out of fantasy, it was dominated by Pashtuns, THEN WHY IS THE HQ IN RAWALPINDI EH??? WHY NOT PESHAWER OR HEY WHY NOT IN SWAT?

Usual Pakistani non sense.

You didnt answer us, why does Pakistan Army make deals with Anti Afghan govt Talibs? why does it release well known terrorists and unleashes hell on Afghanistan?

I bet you will say next that Pakistan army is 99 percent Pashtun. Remmeber during the mughal, there were many traitors in the mughal army and leadership who were Pashtuns, but does it mean they represented all Pashtuns. No Way.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 01:29 PM
ISI is a Pashtun dominated agency, read about them on history commons and also a recent article by Eric Margolas which speaks of high representation of Pashtuns in ISI.



To Read Full Article, Click Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-margolis/blaming-pakistans-spies-f_b_117571.html)

__________________________________________________ ______

Another Source:


By the way, Can this website or article provide evidence of the number of pashtuns in the ISI, it find this as false propaghanda to support Pakistans existance.

Swatithebrave1. This is the writer of your false article and cheap propaghanda

Eric Margolis on Iran (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1109173437457266812)[/URL]#


Eric Margolis is not a native of Pakhtunkhwa, he is a Westerner, look at the video at how he praises Taliban who funny enough are a product of ISI, look how he speaks of Bin Laden and the Soviet war, this mans a disinformationist.

Swatithebrave1 you could have done better eh.

Please give Eric Margolis a email and ask him where he got this lies about Pashtuns dominating the ISI, or is he refering to the Taliban under the ISI which makes them ISI agents.

Kind Regards

P.S by the way, hes also a Jew as well, as if your going to beleive them eh

"Last time I saw Eric Margolis, the half-Jewish, half-Muslim columnist for the Toronto Sun"

http://ezralevant.com/2009/01/eric-margolis-hamas-not-terror.html

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 01:32 PM
You see again how he defends those ISI agents who supported Taliban. Can you see the twisted game going on with Pashtuns.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 01:36 PM
That's the thing though, isn't it? The Taliban are Pakistan's proxies who would ensure Pakistani hegemony in Afghanistan after the eventual NATO withdrawal. The Mehsud element has been, from what it seems, influenced by India to bite its master's hand. In response, the Pakistani-backed Afghan Taliban launched multiple attacks on Indian diplomatic establishments in Afghanistan. In response to the Mehsuds, the Pakistani Army, as AI's and other reports suggest, has been flattening everything in South Waziristan. At the end of the day, the real and only losers are Pashtuns.

I returned from Waziristan not long ago and i can say India has no influence in the area. If Mahsuds can not return home, how will a Indian enter those regions. We all know Mahsuds, Every Mahsud is connected, we are very close and connected, Mahsud Taliban faction turned its gun on Pakistan because Pakistan starting turning Wazirs on the Mahsuds by blocking roads and putting embargos on the Mahsud areas, Mahsud Taliban faction turned its gun on Pakistan because it realized Pakistan is playing a game when they killed Abdullah Mahsud and favored Baitullah, Baitullah wasnt good enough,so they informed CIA to kill him. etc

Yes I agree, At the end of the day its Pashtuns who suffer.But nobody is lower and more **** than the Pakistan Army.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-13-2010, 01:59 PM
ISI has sold out Pashtuns that work for Punjabi interests.

That is why what happened to Swat will never happen to Lahore.

How have they sold them out?

Pakistan is fooling the west but is secretly protecting Taliban.

ISI has a good control over Taliban.

Nadir Shah
06-13-2010, 03:34 PM
ISI is a Pashtun dominated agency, read about them on history commons and also a recent article by Eric Margolas which speaks of high representation of Pashtuns in ISI.



To Read Full Article, Click Here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-margolis/blaming-pakistans-spies-f_b_117571.html)

__________________________________________________ ______

Another Source:

Malgariya, 99% of the British Army was Indians. Were the Indians free then? Were they not slaves? The Indians conquered Palestine for the British in 1917, were they independent and free?
Just because Pashtuns have a presence in the Army does not mean they get a fair deal. Far from it.

SwatiTheBrave1
06-13-2010, 11:08 PM
What an oxy moron, when you mean ISI is dominated by Pashtuns, do you mean Taliban? hahaha, Swatithebrave1 i know your the same Pakistani faujan from Pak Defence forums, nobody who is sane is going to beleive ISI is dominated by majority by Pashtuns, What a stupid and desparate thing to say,
Why is it 'stupid and desperate'? If you have any information or articles contradicting my assertions and what Margolis said then please present them, otherwise your comments have no basis.

Heavy Pashtun influence in the ISI started with the Afghan Jihad against the Soviets and the ISI's heavy involvement in training and supporting the Mujahideen. Most of the Mujahideen leaders supported by the ISI were Pashtun. That continued after the Soviets left as the ISI supported first Hekmetyar, and then the Taliban. Many Western analysts in fact use this point to argue that the ISI cannot be a trustworthy agency because of the heavy Pashtun influence. They use the heavy Pashtun presence in the PA (and the FC Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa) to argue that the PA and FC cannot conduct sustained and successful operations against the Taliban because of the heavy presence of Ethnic Pashtun in the military.

Every two bit analyst and Think Tank in the West uses the heavy Pashtun presence in the Pakistani military to argue against the efficacy of the Pakistani military and intelligence operations, while here you are arguing the opposite because you want to construct a narrative of 'Pashtun victimization' in Pakistan in order to bolster this pipe dream of the FATA and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa separating from Pakistan.

If for instance, out of fantasy, it was dominated by Pashtuns, THEN WHY IS THE HQ IN RAWALPINDI EH??? WHY NOT PESHAWER OR HEY WHY NOT IN SWAT?
Because the Army HQ is in Rawalpindi, and in the process of being moved to the Capital Islamabad.

Usual Pakistani non sense.Insulting other nations doesn't make your arguments any more valid.

You didnt answer us, why does Pakistan Army make deals with Anti Afghan govt Talibs? why does it release well known terrorists and unleashes hell on Afghanistan?
Pakistan has made deals with various Taliban factions, both Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban, over the years because of the constraints it faces in both a geo-political and resources context. With a hostile India on its Eastern border that has the overwhelming majority of its mechanized and infantry divisions deployed against Pakistan, Pakistan could ill afford to redeploy a significant number of its forces on the Western front. In addition, there was little to no appetite politically or amongst the general Pakistani populace to launch major operations against the Taliban, considered 'our own people'. It was only after the Swat Peace Deal collapsed that Pakistani public opinion started changing towards the Pakistani Taliban.

With the Afghan focused Taliban Pakistan's policy becomes even more complex and tough to negotiate because there is little faith that NATO is going to actually stay the course and finish what it started. The US abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated, and then it abandoned Afghanistan again to fight a war in Iraq over non-existent WMD's. Pakistan was in no mood to make enemies of the Afghan Taliban, who would likely regain a significant amount of power in case of a NATO withdrawal. Until Pakistan sees commitment and progress from NATO (or reconciliation from Karzai with the Taliban), North Waziristan and Gul Bahadur and the Haqqanis are likely to remain relatively untouched. In addition there is the constraint I mentioned before of resource restrictions and the inability to move too many troops away from a hostile Indian border and LoC.


I bet you will say next that Pakistan army is 99 percent Pashtun. Remmeber during the mughal, there were many traitors in the mughal army and leadership who were Pashtuns, but does it mean they represented all Pashtuns. No Way.

Kind Regards
I believe Pakistan Army figures put the number of Pashtun in the PA at a little higher than their proportion of the total population.

The participation of Pakistani Pashtun in the military, in academia, in research, in the top posts in the country, does not make them 'traitors' (to whom would they be traitors anyway?), it makes them fully participant and loyal Pakistani citizens, many of whom have offered the ultimate sacrifice for Pakistan, our nation.

SwatiTheBrave1
06-13-2010, 11:12 PM
Malgariya, 99% of the British Army was Indians. Were the Indians free then? Were they not slaves? The Indians conquered Palestine for the British in 1917, were they independent and free?
Just because Pashtuns have a presence in the Army does not mean they get a fair deal. Far from it.
Whether we Pakistani Pashtun feel 'conquered' or not is for us to decide, not for an outsider to rant about.

One cannot be 'conquered' by a nation when one is part of the nation.

The problem is that too many non-Pakistani Pashtun cannot get beyond ethnic identity politics, whereas in Pakistan, where ethnic identity politics exists as well, Pakistaniat has become an integral part of the identity-matrix of every ethnic group in the country.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 01:01 AM
ISI is not even close to majority pashtun. If it was, then where the hell were these donkeys when Pashtuns were suffering in Afghanistan and Malakand division or FATA? More Pashtuns fought for the Mughals and were a part of the nobility than pakistan, but even today Mughals are considered the historical enemies of Pashtuns. In terms of these so-called pashtuns who worked in ISI against their own, well a donkey can do tawwaaf but the donkey won't become a hajji. Just because they are pashtuns, doesn't mean they cant sell their own out. That is why Malcolm X called such people house negroes, and that is what they are. House negroes, nothingn more nothing less.

P.S. Swati-mr-Pakistani, if you want to ignore this by all means, this is for the others.

pir_Rokhan
06-14-2010, 03:10 AM
Corrupt and impotent Pakistan army

Source: Guardian.co.uk

No institution dominates Pakistan like its army. The armed forces account for 20% of Pakistan's national budget, totalling $5bn last year according to official statistics. But the actual figure, already staggering for a country with high levels of illiteracy and malnutrition, is likely to be much higher.

The army has been practically unaccountable since the very foundation of the country – last year's figures were the first it has publicly released since 1965.

Those aren't the only imposing figures. It has some 650,000 active soldiers and another half million in reserve, and internal discipline – strict loyalty to the high command among the rank and file – is very high.

Every one of Pakistan's democratically-elected civilian leaders has been forced to abdicate by the army. A general has directly ruled the country for 34 of its 62 years of existence.

With this vice-like grip on power, many are wondering how a rural insurgency armed with basic weapons has managed to overrun so much of the country. The answers have much to do with the Pakistan army itself.

Part of the problem is that the army is equipped for a conventional war against its historical adversary to the east, India, and not the type of insurgency being waged by the Taliban on the frontier to the west. Its operations in the tribal areas have been imprecise, leading to the destruction of many thousands of civilian lives and livelihood. Up to a million are believed to have been displaced by the conflict.

"Collateral damage always strengthens the Taliban, it helps them get more public support," says Abdul Hakim (not his real name), a journalist from Dir, a tribal agency, next to the Swat valley, in which the Taliban are slowly moving.

But there have been only limited, poorly-coordinated attempts to re-engage with communities devastated by armed operations against the Taliban. As a result the Army and government authorities have sheepishly ended up signing peace deals with the Taliban over the past four years. They have all consistently broken down, the Taliban using the lull in hostilities to regroup and rearm.

The most recent peace deal, over the Swat valley, is on the verge of collapse owing to continued Taliban operations in neighbouring areas.

There are lingering doubts about the Army's resolve to combat the Taliban too, as has been suggested when it initially sent up a lightly armed squad of paramilitaries to fight the Taliban in the Buner valley, just below Swat, even though the region is close to the nation's capital.

Another factor is the fact that many of the army's soldiers involved in operations are Pashtun like the Taliban. This has left the high command nervous about tackling the insurgents head-on for fear of causing rifts within the ranks. Although far from a mutiny, many soldiers have refused to fight their fellow tribesman or have surrendered and deserted.

But that has not prevented the army from engaging in operations that have been highly destabilising for tribal Pashtun communities in the affected areas. People fleeing the conflict in Swat and Bajaur, a tribal agency to the west on the border with Afghanistna, told me they felt that the army was, in fact, targeting them and not the Taliban. Some argued this was because the army feared Taliban reprisals. Others insisted they were being targeted because of their support for the Pashtun nationalist Awami National party, which runs the North West Frontier province government.

The truth of rumours such as these, common in Pakistan, are difficult to quantify. But one need not look to rumours to understand why the Pakistan army has failed to defeat the Taliban.

The army has a long history of strategic incompetence stretching back to the very first war the country fought with India in 1948. On that occasion, tribal militants from the regions now in open insurrection against Pakistan flooded into Indian-controlled Kashmir. After overwhelming Indian soldiers there, they promptly went on a binge of rape and looting while the army looked on.

Again at war with India, in 1965, the better-equipped Pakistan army lost more ground, and tanks, than its adversary. But perhaps the army's darkest moment was the 1971 war that lead to the creation of Bangladesh. That conflict saw Pakistan troops involved in widespread acts of extermination against the indigenous Bengali population of what was, at the time, known as East Pakistan.

The Hamoodur Rahman Commission held in Pakistan following that war found large swathes of the high command to be deeply negligent – the commander of Pakistani forces in East Pakistan, the report revealed, was involved in sexual misconduct even as his troops were killing, and being killed, on the battlefield.

In 1999, an ambitious Pakistani general by the name of Pervez Musharraf devised the tactically brilliant, but strategically near-suicidal, plan to invade Kargil, an Indian mountain post in Kashmir. That gamble nearly led to nuclear war, and almost certainly led to a military coup later that year.

How does one explain these failures? There can be no one explanation. But if there is an overriding message from these debacles, it is that the army is ill-equipped to defend the state because it has captured much of the bedrock of the state to which it is totally unaccountable.

According to Ayesha Siddiqua, in her seminal study, "Military Inc", the army's private business assets are worth around £10bn and it owns a handsome share of the country's business and land. The generals, as a result, appear to be more interested in leveraging control over businesses, properties and politics.

Yet, the army's power is such that although Pakistan's private media have a commendable record of criticising the country's civilian politicians, criticism of the men in uniform is rare – save during periods of crisis under direct military rule, like the dismissal of the chief justice in 2007.

It would be unfair, however, to criticise the army without acknowledging the pivotal role played by its greatest patrons – the United States, and, to a lesser extent, China. Since the 1950s, both countries have lavished military and political support on the Pakistan army.

"Nobody has occupied the White House who is friendlier to Pakistan than me," is what US President Richard Nixon told Pakistan's then military dictator, Yahya Khan, at a 1970 dinner in Washington, on the eve of the murderous war in East Pakistan. More recently, former President George Bush's praise for Pervez Musharraf has become the stuff of folklore.

The army has been rewarded by its foreign patrons despite its incompetence and unaccountability. In the process, civilian political life has been grotesquely stunted, leading the democratic process to be replaced by a crude kleptocracy where non-military leaders represent personal dynasties and not the people.

Is it any wonder, then, that the army struggles to find a concerted strategy for defeating the Taliban?

pir_Rokhan
06-14-2010, 03:42 AM
Hopelessness in Pakistan
by Agha Amin [ex army Officer]

The Pakistani establishments pathetic state is that no secretary had the guts to tell army chief to learn manners and come to secretariat and went like meek mice to army HQ.The ministry of defence in pakistan is non existent and minister of defence remaisn the shoe maker that he was.Foreign minister has no control on major part of foreign policy.Human personality according to Sigmund Freud is a compromise between individual and society.It appears that pakistans most corrupt state is driving the pakistani common man to the breaking point. The pakistani common man has three choices left,all terrible choices:--

1-live a life of frustration,deprivation and degradation while pakistans elites civil and military enjoys life and breaks all laws.

2-Commit suicide.

3-Or rise and revolt and destroy the present system.This is the kinetic energy solution.Drive the lesson home with the kinetic energy of the 7.62 mm bullet.

The Essential Issue of Coercive Force

Philosophers have long agreed that man is a beast at heart and he is kept in control by coercive organs of the state i.e the army and the police etc. In Pakistan the coercive organs of the state are fast losing their value and have been successfully cgallenged in Balochistan and FATA.The Pakistani militarys success in both areas is doubtful whatever claims they make. The Pakistani judiciary has failed to rein in the corrupt politicians. The Pakistani media despite all claims of being bold has failed to drive fear into the highly corrupt Pakistani politicians.

The last attempt

The last attempt at some stage may be a semi military coup with judiciary and military in combination or at worst a martial law.There seems no great man in sight who will bring the great and bloody change in Pakistan. Pakistanis are breakenn from inisde.Driven into animal despair by inflation,unemployment and deprivation.The elite speeds up in cruisers and young men on bikes subjected to police and military harassment. Every minute potential killers and psycopaths and suicide bombers are being created but no one is bothered. Pakistan needs a Khomeini from inside or an enemy like Halaku Khan who will destroy it totally.Both dont appear in sight. The result would be a long agony for Pakistans common man .Hunger,degradation,helplessness and desperation till he becomes deperate enough to do battle with the whole heavens.

pir_Rokhan
06-14-2010, 03:44 AM
The Political role of Military in Pakistan
by Pukhtoon Khan

It is mind boggling to know that most of the time the most revered persons,tombs,concepts,books,places, and institutions have been used for the exploitation of masses on mass level in the third world countries.e.g the names or tombs of religious saints have been the biggest source of income for their descendents or believers,the concept of determinism has been making it easy for the kings and monarchs to rule the fate- struck masses of the east,the holy places worldwide have been used to attract masses to invest their money in search of peace of mind or fulfillment of their wishful prayers,the dissemination and propagation of sectarian religious books have been serving the purpose of bringing out the worst in humanity and compelling them to fall prey to the commercial trap of their propagators at the same time similarly the institutions of Pakistan military is using India phobia to get a lion's share in the budget of Pakistan.

In Pakistan almost all the institutions necessary for the proper functioning of the state have been jeopardised so it is necessary to crack the code of the virus which is responsible for their mal-functioning rather dys-functioning of this failed state.To the surprise of the state-indoctrinated and suffering masses of Pakistan and the mislead portfolio-holders of Pentagon in the United Sates, that virus which is resident in the roots of the Pakistani system is Pakistan Army.The institution of Army and its associated Agencies has been actively involved in grabbing the reigns of power to become a dictatorial,authoritarian and autocratic regime and decide the fate of billions of people of Pakistan.

Army is considered as a sacred cow in Pakistan by its ex-worshiper Punjabi majority. It is blasphemous to utter even a single word against the immoral and terrorising activities of Pakistan army and its associated agencies like ISI ,MI and IB because the main argument of all military and dictatorial regimes, to justify their illegitimate tenures and refute any criticism, has always been the misuse of the ambiguous phrase “Everything we do is in the national interest of Pakistan”.

Let us have a quick look at the charge sheet against this organised and revered institution which has been technically competent for being financially and politically corrupt, desperate and determined to kill anyone who can raise a voice against their atrocities and injustices and ever ready to squeeze major chunk of the budget of a third world country like Pakistan to quench its thirst for power.

The power-grabbing strategy of Pakistan military works as follows:

1) The Punjabi-majority army shows its allegiance and loyalty against all known human standards of self respect and national interest to the United States alleging the politicians to be immature to handle nukes responsibly.

2) After the official acknowledgement from the Whitehouse, it then exaggerates the US concerns in the region and offers its services to help achieve US national interests in the region.

3) Depending on the political scenario and circumstances the military awaits the green signal from the Whitehouse to grab the reigns of power till the sanction is granted by the decision makers in the Pentagon.

4) Based on the assurances of the Whitehouse Army uses Intelligence agencies to exploit any mistake or weak point to topple the government.

5) Once the army comes into power it faces the question of legitimacy to face the free world and world media.

6) It easily gets legitimacy from the Judiciary by offering incentives to those who long for it while use force and tactics of extortion, pressure ,threats and sacking to the resilient ones.

7) After getting legitimacy it gives a fake and imaginary vision to the masses win give a catharsis to the latent hatred and rebellion of the masses against the system and benefactors.

8) To suppress and divide the masses and keep their attention diverted from the real cause of unrest, the common dirty job all military regimes do in Pakistan is the fabrication of ethnic and religious terrorist organisations.

9) Over a period of time , the tenure of the regime due to its incompetence, misuse of power ,wrong and unpopular policies culminates in the destruction of institutions followed by corruption and misappropriation which in turn gives birth to injustice and hence unrest in the masses. Then with the help of ISI and other agencies, Army fabricates a king’s party and holds an engineered election to bring them into power by buying their vote and promising incentives and power sharing in the future.

10) Due to the appointment of fake political figures and titular representatives in the king’s party the government is unable to deliver due to which the masses gets agitated once again and the agencies comes into action once again on the directive of the high-ups in Army to find out alternative plan to keep the reigns of power in military hands.

Let me quote two shameful examples briefly:

a) The first example from the black history of Pakistan was the emergence of General Zia-ul- Haq ,who offered the services of Pakistan army and agencies to defeat Russia and contain it to Afghanistan in the name of religion, propagated religion to win the sympathies of masses, fabricated Sipay Sahaba and Sipah Mohammad to polarise the society on sectarian basis ,established and encouraged MQM - the largest ethnic terrorist network in the history of Pakistan, formed IJI , killed or imprisoned all those who raised a voice against his dictatorship, used and projected religious demagogues who justified his regime.

b) The second example is the current dark and dictatorial military regime of Pervez Mushharaf,who toppled the democratic government of Nawaz Sharif ,exploited the new slogan of ‘Pakistan first’ and accountability ,offered the services of army to kill Taliban and Al-Qaeda - both of whom were harbored , trained ,financed and encouraged by ISI in different cities of Punjab, fabricated PML-Q as the king’s party and bought the votes of religious parties to further strengthen his regime.

In the conclusion let me quote France based Syed Jamaluddin who was forced to leave Pakistan after military coup of General Pervez Musharraf in 1999.He has elaborated the role of Army and ISI in Pakistan in his book "Divide Pakistan to eliminate terrorism" published in 2006 about the issues related to terrorism and Pakistan. He writes:

[“Pakistan is the central headquarters of all terrorist activities under the authoritative command of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) an organ of Pakistan Army who have been sheltering ethnic and religious terrorists organizations in the country through military as well as financial support”]

Putting light on the pro-Punjab policies of ISI regarding using Taliban against small provinces he writes:

[“Inter Services Intelligence Agency (ISI) is the real government in Pakistan. It is part of the ISI’s well-established policy to organize violent pro-Taliban protest demonstrations against the United States in the provinces of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP (North West Frontier Province) and keep the province of Punjab away from these demonstrations and strikes”]

Regarding patronising the fanatic, extremist and even terrorist groups against US and sacrificing the innocent people of minority provinces at the altar of military he writes:

[“The United States and international community assured the Pakistani rulers that if they extend co-operation to United States and international community in the war against terrorism, Pakistan would get the legitimate fruits of such co-operation. After these assurances of the International Community the ISI conspired to activate the religious and so-called Jihadi groups on their payroll to use the provinces of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP (North-West Frontier Province) provinces as their battleground against United States and International Community. This conspiracy to use the minority provinces was aimed to give the United States of America and the International Community a completely wrong impression that people living in these provinces are against USA while the real situation is totally different.”]

Highlighting the double game played by Pakistan Army to depict a wrong picture of the smaller provinces on one side and deceiving the world community on the other , he goes on to tell us about the real safe haven to harbor terrorism in Pakistan:

[“Pakistan Army through its terrorism network called ISI has made an attempt to tarnish the image of small provinces of present Pakistan on one hand and on the other to deceive USA and the International Community. It is a bitter truth that the province of Punjab is the hub of all the fanatical and so-called Jihadi groups and the Headquarters of all the fanatical and extremists groups are situated in different cities of the province of Punjab like Lahore, Multan, Jhang, Faisalabad and Nankana. The ISI’s “game” to deceive the United States and international community would not last long and this act of deception would reach to its logical conclusion. When that happens the world would know who actually benefited by deceiving others and who lost, whereas who was deceived by whom and who was hoodwinked.”]

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 04:05 AM
Whether we Pakistani Pashtun feel 'conquered' or not is for us to decide, not for an outsider to rant about.

One cannot be 'conquered' by a nation when one is part of the nation.

The problem is that too many non-Pakistani Pashtun cannot get beyond ethnic identity politics, whereas in Pakistan, where ethnic identity politics exists as well, Pakistaniat has become an integral part of the identity-matrix of every ethnic group in the country.

So the collective punishment act and the FCR comes part of the Pakistaniyat package?

Who is we? the jawans in your Army barracks led by a Punjabi Chaundry Officer?

Iam from Waziristan buddy, I know for a fact, nobody follows your Pakistaniyat there, I truely doubt in their hearts those IDPS from Swat dont follow your Pakistaniyat, unless they have a gain such as you.

Also i find it funny how you say, Outsiders rant about, you spend most of your time insulting us on Pakistan Defence Forum to Outsiders such as Punjabis and other sons of British Raja Sikhs turned Muslims lol!


Kind Regards

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 04:15 AM
Maseed jaana the irony of the guy's post is that Pashtuns east of the durand line have very little relations with the other ethnic groups of Pakistan. It is a lot less than the case in Afghanistan, where by and large there is some cohesion. It is near zero in Pakistan. I don't know where he heard of these fantasies of pakistaniyath, but Pashtuns have little if no connections with people east of the indus.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 04:39 AM
Maseed jaana the irony of the guy's post is that Pashtuns east of the durand line have very little relations with the other ethnic groups of Pakistan. It is a lot less than the case in Afghanistan, where by and large there is some cohesion. It is near zero in Pakistan. I don't know where he heard of these fantasies of pakistaniyath, but Pashtuns have little if no connections with people east of the indus.

Maybe he should go into a MQM dominated Neighbourhood in Karachi and ask them what they think of Pashtuns, they being the original Indian Mojjahir just like Jinnah and the whole Pakistan into being, was for this groups intend, lets see how they will treat him, I dare him to Speak Pushto infront of them hahaha.

pir_Rokhan
06-14-2010, 05:50 AM
Halakano da tol hum yaw kas day pa naway naway namoo banday razee aw Pakistan la hamdardaan paida kawee. Us che tareekh da Pakistan da wajood khilaf fatwa werkaray da no mung ba werla se partug jor kro. Swatyano Pukhtano ta da army aw da Pakyan der khe maloom dee. Dasay tol Pukhtano forum kay se khalak pa day duty wee che readers la da impression verkee ganaee che Pukhtano key kho der pa Pakistan ghutt mra dee.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 05:55 AM
Oh Babor claim ancestry from Kandahar how interesting,btw I hate that babor he killed more Afghan then Russain.
Actually naseerullah babar is pashtun from DIKhan, an Interesting fact and point to ponder.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 06:06 AM
Pakistan looks at Afghanistan as its biggest enemy.
Wrong
It is india.
I will say both india and pakistan are obssessed with each other, afghanistan is one of the stage ground for their fights.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 06:25 AM
Wrong
It is india.
I will say both india and pakistan are obssessed with each other, afghanistan is one of the stage ground for their fights.

Dear Luffy

Kashmir is the stage ground for their fights, Afghanistan is just a place where Originally Pakistan army planned to mobilize its troops from an attack from India.

Kind Regards

Jana
06-14-2010, 06:27 AM
Ive seen with my own eyes in North Waziristan, Taliban drinking Tea with Pakistan Army soldiers in Miram Shah Market. Why doesnt the media ask the people of Waziristan and they will all tell you the same thing, that Taliban and Pakistan Army are one, even Haqqanis taliban faction is very open with the Pakistan Army.

Without Pakistan, Taliban will have absolutely no resources nor freedom to operate and move.

Kind Regards

After reading your biased posts i can not trust your own eyes :)

On a serious note Haqqani group and Nazir, Gul Bahadur and Co have been sheltering TTP terrorists against Pakistan.

Though earlier they were pro but in between they always been munafiqs just like all those from both from Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Its another matter that army is still observing calm in opening another front in Waziristan despite the fact that these men have been supporting and sheltering anti-Pakistan elements recently.

Jana
06-14-2010, 06:36 AM
So the collective punishment act and the FCR comes part of the Pakistaniyat package?

Yeh when Britishers imposed it on our qabail then Pakistan was on the map of the world :angel: right

Who is we? the jawans in your Army barracks led by a Punjabi Chaundry Officer?

You need some thorough knowledge to know how many Pashtuns are on top slots in Pakistan Army and how much is their percentage which is quite good followed by another province of our country.



I truely doubt in their hearts those IDPS from Swat dont follow your Pakistaniyat, unless they have a gain such as you.

We have seen people like you who are observing ethnic biased against Swatis saying they are not qabail (tribesmen) so i dont think so such claims can be uttered on their behalf.

Al to Outsiders such as Punjabis and other sons of British Raja Sikhs turned Muslims lol!


Kind Regards

I dont know if you consider yourself Muslim or otherwise but we understand one thing that once you become a Muslim you are part of the brotherhood irrespective of what was your cast, creed or faith earlier.


Seems you are having some personal grudge anyway. We very much follow Pakistaniyat despite being Pashtuns. For we know that if anyone attacked us atleast YOU and your masters wont allow us to enter

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 06:36 AM
After reading your biased posts i can not trust your own eyes :)

On a serious note Haqqani group and Nazir, Gul Bahadur and Co have been sheltering TTP terrorists against Pakistan.

Though earlier they were pro but in between they always been munafiqs just like all those from both from Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Its another matter that army is still observing calm in opening another front in Waziristan despite the fact that these men have been supporting and sheltering anti-Pakistan elements recently.

I would disagree there with you.

They have not been sheltering Anti Pakistan Militants, which can clearly seen in 2007, when Mullah Nazeers group kicked out Anti Pakistan Uzbek Militant group. Recently a tribal jirga consisting of both Mullah Nazeer and Gul badahar have confirmed that they will boot out any Anti state element from South/North Waziristan, which can be seen last week, when 400 Tribal elders of the Wazir tribe assured the Pakistan army and government that it will make sure Mahsuds will not pass on their land.

Jana, have you been to Waziristan if so, go to Miram Shah, and you will kindly see both Paksitan army and Taliban units together in peace, doesnt this tell you something. Secondly, Pakistan seems to be avoiding operation in North Waziristan, since its assets may be harmed.

Also you say they are Monafiqeen? yet will thier creator being Pakistan be a bigger Monafiqeen?

How is my posts biased? Ive been to Waziristan myself, Have you been to Waziristan, or you just another one of those Pak Defence Members coming on here spreading False Propaghanda in favor of your American fed Pak fauge.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 06:38 AM
Yeh when Britishers imposed it on our qabail then Pakistan was on the map of the world :angel: right



You need some thorough knowledge to know how many Pashtuns are on top slots in Pakistan Army and how much is their percentage which is quite good followed by another province of our country.





We have seen people like you who are observing ethnic biased against Swatis saying they are not qabail (tribesmen) so i dont think so such claims can be uttered on their behalf.



I dont know if you consider yourself Muslim or otherwise but we understand one thing that once you become a Muslim you are part of the brotherhood irrespective of what was your cast, creed or faith earlier.


Seems you are having some personal grudge anyway. We very much follow Pakistaniyat despite being Pashtuns. For we know that if anyone attacked us atleast YOU and your masters wont allow us to enter


Can you tell us where is the Shariat laws in Pakistan>

Who is my masters? Nobody is my master, And its funny how you are dividing Swatis and Tribal People, if you didnt know, all pashtuns are tribesmen thats why we are in Tribes.

Secondly in a Islamic context, can a Ismaili Kaffir who drank whisky and ate pork be allowed to establish an Islamic state where the laws are former colonial of the British Rajs?

I speak on behalf of majority of Tribal People, not sons of Pak officers.

Kind Regards

Jana
06-14-2010, 07:03 AM
Can you tell us where is the Shariat laws in Pakistan>

Shariat laws are not some joke which could be imposed for shariat laws there must be a welfare society which is not found btw in any Muslim country.


And BTW how come your out of the blue comment about Sharia Laws is related to this discussion ?



Who is my masters? Nobody is my master, And its funny how you are dividing Swatis and Tribal People, if you didnt know, all pashtuns are tribesmen thats why we are in Tribes.

I am not at all dividing anyone being Pashtun i dont see any difference between a Swati and tribesmen FATA we all are just one nation under one country and beyond that.



Secondly in a Islamic context, can a Ismaili Kaffir who drank whisky and ate pork be allowed to establish an Islamic state where the laws are former colonial of the British Rajs?

The man who created Pakistan never claimed that self-styled Sharia laws of Taliban mixed with local culture will be implemented here.

And you need to ask Tribesmen about British Raj laws aka FCR i had been involved in debates with them when the government was thinking to change. The tribesmen themselves are divided over the issue.


I speak on behalf of majority of Tribal People, not sons of Pak officers.

Kind Regards
Sorry you can not speak on my behalf.

Jana
06-14-2010, 07:16 AM
I would disagree there with you.

They have not been sheltering Anti Pakistan Militants, which can clearly seen in 2007, when Mullah Nazeers group kicked out Anti Pakistan Uzbek Militant group.

Those very Uzbeks were sheltered by Haqqani and Co and they booted them out because these Uzebks were getting too strong, challenging, overcoming the powers of locals including Wazirs and Mehsuds and their supporters.



Recently a tribal jirga consisting of both Mullah Nazeer and Gul badahar have confirmed that they will boot out any Anti state element from South/North Waziristan, which can be seen last week, when 400 Tribal elders of the Wazir tribe assured the Pakistan army and government that it will make sure Mahsuds will not pass on their land.

NO not recently rather in the past they had accords with the govt but always violated these. There had been no Recent jirga by Nazeer and Gul Bahadur rather there was one from Mehsud elders assuring the political agent provided if NO military operation is launched.



Jana, have you been to Waziristan if so, go to Miram Shah, and you will kindly see both Paksitan army and Taliban units together in peace, doesnt this tell you something. Secondly, Pakistan seems to be avoiding operation in North Waziristan, since its assets may be harmed.[/QUOTE

yes i had been even at a time when people avoid to go there. They are own people so holding talks with them is not a bad thing neither forbidden.

We can not just blindly fire at them. As far as operation in NW is concerned as far as i know and have seen the fighters have more preparations than the army and they even have solid bunkers so stretching army at this point is tantamount to harming our ownselves instead of harming the militants.


Above all as soon as we announce launching an operation, the militants will cross over to Afghanistan just like TTP did. So no assets at the moment.


[QUOTE]How is my posts biased? Ive been to Waziristan myself, Have you been to Waziristan, or you just another one of those Pak Defence Members coming on here spreading False Propaghanda in favor of your American fed Pak fauge.

Kind Regards

lolzz as long as Americans feed you directly then its ok but its wrong if your neighbour is getting the pie. Quite natural. for me its you who is spreading false propaganda and for you it will be me.
As they say your terrorist is my hero and my terrorist is your hero.

I am not some emotional goon so try next time

Farhan88
06-14-2010, 07:24 AM
Lool at Pakistan being an Islamic nation! Where was your Islamiyat when u raped and killed millions of Bangalis? Where's your Islamiyat regarding ethnic cleansing in Sindh and Balochistan? Where was ur Pakistaniyat when milions of Afghans came as refugees to Pakhtunkhwa but all the money given by US got poured into Punjab? Where was your national unity when people of Pakhtunkhwa were refused entrance in Punjab and Sindh 'cause of which they had to flee to wartorn places like Khost, Kunar, Helmand, etc? Even Karzai was more human than you Pakistanis who probably hasn't done anything for its own people but provided those people food and clothing! Once when Afghanistan was stable all of u Pakistanis were shouting for unity.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 07:36 AM
Lool at Pakiiland being an Islamic nation! Where was your Islamiyat when u raped and killed millions of Bangalis? Where's your Islamiyat regarding ethnic cleansing in Sindh and Balochistan? Where was ur Pakistaniyat when milions of Afghans came as refugees to Pakhtunkhwa but all the money given by US got poured into Punjab? Where was your national unity when people of Pakhtunkhwa were refused entrance in Punjab and Sindh 'cause of which they had to flee to wartorn places like Khost, Kunar, Helmand, etc? Even Karzai was more human than you Pakii wahshis who probably hasn't done anything for its own people but provided those people food and clothing! Once when Afghanistan was stable all of u Pakii dogs were shouting for unity but as soon as Afghanistan got in war u dumbf**ks think being with Pakiiland actually saved u from war while it were Punjapai haramis who fuelled the war in Afghanistan! F**king shame on every single one of u who defends Pakii interference with our motherland Afghanistan and tuff lahnat on every single one of u! And this coming from someone from Pakhtunkhwa!

Watch your language. Any how you are reported.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 08:18 AM
Those very Uzbeks were sheltered by Haqqani and Co and they booted them out because these Uzebks were getting too strong, challenging, overcoming the powers of locals including Wazirs and Mehsuds and their supporters.





NO not recently rather in the past they had accords with the govt but always violated these. There had been no Recent jirga by Nazeer and Gul Bahadur rather there was one from Mehsud elders assuring the political agent provided if NO military operation is launched.



[QUOTE]Jana, have you been to Waziristan if so, go to Miram Shah, and you will kindly see both Paksitan army and Taliban units together in peace, doesnt this tell you something. Secondly, Pakistan seems to be avoiding operation in North Waziristan, since its assets may be harmed.[/QUOTE

yes i had been even at a time when people avoid to go there. They are own people so holding talks with them is not a bad thing neither forbidden.

We can not just blindly fire at them. As far as operation in NW is concerned as far as i know and have seen the fighters have more preparations than the army and they even have solid bunkers so stretching army at this point is tantamount to harming our ownselves instead of harming the militants.


Above all as soon as we announce launching an operation, the militants will cross over to Afghanistan just like TTP did. So no assets at the moment.




lolzz as long as Americans feed you directly then its ok but its wrong if your neighbour is getting the pie. Quite natural. for me its you who is spreading false propaganda and for you it will be me.
As they say your terrorist is my hero and my terrorist is your hero.

I am not some emotional goon so try next time


Exactly, You claim to have been to Waziristan at the time when there was no war, but have you been recently? I guess not so who gives you the right to insult me and question what i have seen.

How is America feeding me? Silly girl, America is feeding your Army not me.

Try what next time? are you paid by ISPR to spread disinformation?

If Mullah Nazeer and Gul Badahur were not Pro Pakistani as you claim, then why did they break the Mujahideen treaty that was made before the Operation that whenever they get into trouble they stick together, why did Mullah Nazeer and Gul badahur join hands with The Pakistan Army.

Also, take a look at this article, if Taliban were anti Pakistan, as you claim, then why did they join hands with Pakistan Army if india or America attacked.

Army official calls Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah ‘patriots’

By Hamid Mir

ISLAMABAD: All main militant groups fighting in Fata, from South Waziristan to Bajaur and from Mohmand to the Khyber Agency, have contacted the government through different sources after the Mumbai bombings and have offered a ceasefire if the Pakistan Army also stops its operations.

And as a positive sign that this ceasefire offer may be accepted, the Pakistan Army has, as a first step, declared before the media some notorious militant commanders, including Baitullah Mehsud and Maulvi Fazlullah, as “patriotic” Pakistanis.

These two militant commanders are fighting the Army for the last four years and have invariably been accused of terrorism against Pakistan but the aftermath of the Mumbai carnage has suddenly turned terrorists into patriots.

A top security official told a group of senior journalists on Saturday: “We have no big issues with the militants in Fata. We have only some misunderstandings with Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullah. These misunderstandings could be removed through dialogue.”

The Indian allegations against Pakistan have suddenly forced the military establishment in Pakistan to finally accept that they are not fighting an American war inside the Pakistani territory.

On another level, the parliamentary leader of the 12 Fata members in the National Assembly, Munir Orakzai, has expressed optimism in this regard, saying: “I see a bright ray of peace in the tribal areas and if we come out of the American pressure, I can guarantee that there will be peace in the tribal areas in a few days and we will be ready to fight against India on the eastern border along with the Pakistan Army.”

The change in the attitude of the Pakistani military establishment is remarkable. Thanks to India, the security officials, who used to criticise the Pakistani media, are now praising its role in the recent days, saying: “You have proven that you are patriotic Pakistanis.”

Last year, the same officials were part of a decision to impose a ban on many Pakistani TV channels because of their alleged anti-state behaviour. Meanwhile, Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has made it clear to President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani that if India escalates tensions, then Pakistan has to move its troops from the tribal areas to the eastern borders and it would not be possible to continue the war against terrorism.

Top military officials conveyed the same message to the media representatives on Saturday. It was learnt that Washington and London were very concerned over the rise of tension between the two nuclear powers.

The Pakistan Army officials have been describing 48 hours as very important. These sources claimed on Sunday that the situation was now stabilising. A very responsible government official in Islamabad told this scribe on Sunday that nothing would happen in the next 24 hours. Some late night telephone calls made from Washington and London helped to cool down the temperature in New Delhi and Islamabad.

Despite the assurances made by President Asif Zardari on sending a director of ISI to India for helping the Mumbai carnage investigations, it has also been decided by Islamabad that no ISI official will visit India, at least, in the next one week.

On the domestic level, thanks to the uncalled for Indian allegations, some ministers of the Yousuf Raza Gilani cabinet got an opportunity to criticise their prime minister on his face for giving an assurance to India that the ISI chief will go to New Delhi without consulting even his cabinet colleagues.

Angry ministers told Gilani clearly in Saturday’s cabinet meeting that his decision was not good and he should concentrate on “institutionalised decision-making” rather than going for solo flights in the future. Gilani was forced to change his decision. The cabinet, after discussing the Mumbai carnage and the Indian allegations in detail, also advised the prime minister that no ISI official should be sent to India in the near future.

It was discussed in the meeting as to why the militants made a ridiculous demand of liberating the Hyderabad Deccan (Andhra Pradesh). This issue was never raised by any hardline Muslim militant in India or Pakistan in the past. Why did they not demand the liberation of Kashmir, which was the prime objective of banned Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan?

The Indian government claimed that these militants reached Gujarat from Karachi by boat through a 500-km sea route. Why did the Indian Navy fail to stop this boat? The cabinet unanimously agreed that Pakistan will not come under any Indian pressure but efforts will also be made to decrease tensions without annoying the public opinion.

One minister was of the view that the Indian media war against Pakistan had helped Islamabad indirectly as the local media ignored all the domestic political issues and got involved in the tension created by India.

National Assembly Speaker Dr Fehmida Mirza was the most disturbed soul in Islamabad because of the media war between India and Pakistan. She talked to some journalists and advised them not to instigate the public opinion against India because this tension could hurt economies of both countries.

She fears a big conspiracy behind the Mumbai tragedy. She thinks that another attack like Mumbai will definitely create a war-like situation between the two neighbours. She is planning to call the Congress leader Sonia Gandhi and Indian President Pratibha Patel to remove doubts and misgivings between the two nations. She told me: “As a mother, I am thinking to make a mothers’ alliance between India and Pakistan. Let the mothers come out and stop their sons from fighting each other.”

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=18709 (http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=18709)

So why did a Pak army consider these guys as fellow Pakistanis, why all of a sudden Taliban join hands with Pakistan Army so quickly, one may argue that Taliban are anti Pakistan on the grounds of its friendship with America, with this source as evidence, but however, you can not at all say that Taliban hate Pakistan fully and that ISI has no influence over the Taliban even though when it comes to India, both are friends and brothers etc.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 08:23 AM
Watch your language. Any how you are reported.

Jinnah was an Ismaili Kaffir and the founder of P.A.K.I.S, he had a girlfriend who wasnt even a Muslim but a Parsi, what example is he setting here, let alone his lust for pork and whisky, i bet Ruttie will hate me for saying that

Go and report that luffy.

Kind Regards

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 09:05 AM
Jinnah was an Ismaili Kaffir and the founder of P.A.K.I.S, he had a girlfriend who wasnt even a Muslim but a Parsi, what example is he setting here, let alone his lust for pork and whisky, i bet Ruttie will hate me for saying that

Go and report that luffy.

Kind Regards

I reporterd him for his vulgar and abusive langauge not for his approach and point of view.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 09:12 AM
I reporterd him for his vulgar and abusive langauge not for his approach and point of view.

You remind me of this Punjabi in University who reported me because i had a beard and long hair, Basically i insulted Jinnah and he told university authorities that iam a dangerous person.

Trust me, you dont want to be seen as a Shimatgar

Jana
06-14-2010, 09:33 AM
Jinnah was an Ismaili Kaffir and the founder of P.A.K.I.S, he had a girlfriend who wasnt even a Muslim but a Parsi, what example is he setting here, let alone his lust for pork and whisky, i bet Ruttie will hate me for saying that

Go and report that luffy.

Kind Regards


Such ranting proves that a person spitting gutter level frustration has no logical points to argue.

Jana
06-14-2010, 09:40 AM
Halakano da tol hum yaw kas day pa naway naway namoo banday razee aw Pakistan la hamdardaan paida kawee. Us che tareekh da Pakistan da wajood khilaf fatwa werkaray da no mung ba werla se partug jor kro. Swatyano Pukhtano ta da army aw da Pakyan der khe maloom dee. Dasay tol Pukhtano forum kay se khalak pa day duty wee che readers la da impression verkee ganaee che Pukhtano key kho der pa Pakistan ghutt mra dee.
Lolz Uncle tareekh gawah day chee staso pa shantay opportunists hamesha maidan ta hagha wakht raghalay dee chee kala dwee moka leedalay da daa faido.

Ka da Pakistan na way no wass ba taso da rusyano muhtaja waee aw wass hum da zamong ghairat mand pukhtana dee chee amreekay la ye pa posa ka dar karay day.

Jana
06-14-2010, 09:42 AM
Lool at Pakiiland being an Islamic nation! Where was your Islamiyat when u raped and killed millions of Bangalis? Where's your Islamiyat regarding ethnic cleansing in Sindh and Balochistan? Where was ur Pakistaniyat when milions of Afghans came as refugees to Pakhtunkhwa but all the money given by US got poured into Punjab? Where was your national unity when people of Pakhtunkhwa were refused entrance in Punjab and Sindh 'cause of which they had to flee to wartorn places like Khost, Kunar, Helmand, etc? Even Karzai was more human than you Pakii wahshis who probably hasn't done anything for its own people but provided those people food and clothing! Once when Afghanistan was stable all of u Pakii dogs were shouting for unity but as soon as Afghanistan got in war u dumbf**ks think being with Pakiiland actually saved u from war while it were Punjapai haramis who fuelled the war in Afghanistan! F**king shame on every single one of u who defends Pakii interference with our motherland Afghanistan and tuff lahnat on every single one of u! And this coming from someone from Pakhtunkhwa!

:running: You sound like a Bhindi . oh yeh bhindistan getting :pullinghair:

Shayesta
06-14-2010, 09:48 AM
Ka da Pakistan na way no wass ba taso da rusyano muhtaja waee
Really? Russia also occupied Tajikistan, now is Tajikistan dependent on Russia and do they speak Russian? Russia also occupied Uzbekistan, now is Uzbekistan also dependent on Russia and speak Russian? And there are many more countries which were occupied by Russia but yet they are much better off than Afghanistan and in much better state than us, then how come despite of your holy land Pakistan having 'helped' us against Russia still we are worse off? How come miss Pakistaniyat?


aw wass hum da zamong ghairat mand pukhtana dee chee amreekay la ye pa posa ka dar karay day.
LOL, ghairatmand? What ghairat my dear? When you took birth from India's womb then it was USA who fed you with Dollars, where was your ghairat back then to refuse their money? Now when Taliban backfired you, you actually realised we are Muslims and USA is the actual 'kuffar'? Keep your ghairat in your pocket because this very same ghairat of yours is already destroying you and it will so in the future. Pakistanian aw ghairat...........

Farhan88
06-14-2010, 09:56 AM
:running: You sound like a Bhindi . oh yeh bhindistan getting :pullinghair:
India getting what, ha? One of largest democratic states? Biggest economic succes? Laughing at u Pakistanis for bombing yourselves? Or pity u despite u tried so hard to take other part on Kashmir, its actually u fearing to lose Balochistan?.


Note:
Your post has been edited, Refrain from using curse words in your post. Its unacceptable and against Forum rules.

Jana
06-14-2010, 09:56 AM
Exactly, You claim to have been to Waziristan at the time when there was no war, but have you been recently? I guess not so who gives you the right to insult me and question what i have seen.

Read my post again with open eyes. I said i visit at a time when many avoid to visit the area means rarely few dare to visit when war is going on and i am one of these few.

How is America feeding me? Silly girl, America is feeding your Army not me.

First you tell me who you are representing ??? ;) then i will reply your post in details

Try what next time? are you paid by ISPR to spread disinformation?

Are you paid by India to spread disinformation ??? ::rolleyes::

As far as i am concerned i dont need any payment to correct the disinformation anyone is spreading about my country.


If Mullah Nazeer and Gul Badahur were not Pro Pakistani as you claim, then why did they break the Mujahideen treaty that was made before the Operation that whenever they get into trouble they stick together, why did Mullah Nazeer and Gul badahur join hands with The Pakistan Army.


We are one against common enemy i.e US and other invaders in Afghanistan. Simple as that.



Also, take a look at this article, if Taliban were anti Pakistan, as you claim, then why did they join hands with Pakistan Army if india or America attacked.why all of a sudden Taliban join hands with Pakistan Army so quickly, one may argue that Taliban are anti Pakistan on the grounds of its friendship with America, with this source as evidence,

TTP, Hakimullah, Baitullah etc's such statements are mere media stunt to gain attention and to force army for delaying the operation. Other than that nothing concrete have been shown and proven by TTP so far.



So why did a Pak army consider these guys as fellow Pakistanis,

What do you mean why ?? Indeed they are fellow Pakistanis and will remain so. Though their ways and actions are harming our people but that does not mean they can be deprived of their right to be native of this country.

but however, you can not at all say that Taliban hate Pakistan fully and that ISI has no influence over the Taliban even though when it comes to India, both are friends and brothers etc.



Agree and there is nothing wrong. Intelligence agencies around the world do maintain their links with such elements and nothing wrong or surprising in it. Its what all the agencies are for.

Agencies are not some charity organisations which functions on emotionalism.

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:08 AM
India getting what, ha? One of largest democratic states? Biggest economic succes?

mmm and still you failed to feed millions of poor giving bharat a chance to top the poverty list in the world.

Your demoncrazy failed to save thousands of Muslims burnt alive by your Hindu terrorists in Gujrat. Hundreds of Christians burnt alive by hindu terrorists in Orissa. Not to forget Golden temple massacre of 5000 Sikhs

Laughing at u Pakiis for bombing yourselves?


India is the only country in the world which had used bombs and airpower against its own people in Mezoram so uncle go first read your history before pointing fingers at others.

Or pity u despite u tried so hard to take other part on Kashmir, its actually u fearing to lose Balochistan? Its your beloved Napakistan which is being f**ked, not India my child. Go and save your ass from your own government now.


:running: Maoists are already grilling your donkas in North East and more than half of your states. Uncle you should take care of your own donkas. We have already saved ours.

Levanaye Zalmaye
06-14-2010, 10:26 AM
Listen Jana, defending Pakistan's dualistic and ambiguous Afghan/Pashtun policy is ridiculous. Especially if you claim the moral high-ground and say that there was never anything wrong with it. In the end, it's undeniable that Pakistan's foreign policy goals (which till today remain unfulfilled) resulted in the death and suffering of million of Pashtuns.

LOL, ghairatmand? What ghairat my dear? When you took birth from India's womb then it was USA who fed you with Dollars, where was your ghairat back then to refuse their money? Now when Taliban backfired you, you actually realised we are Muslims and USA is the actual 'kuffar'? Keep your ghairat in your pocket because this very same ghairat of yours is already destroying you and it will so in the future. Pakistanian aw ghairat...........

^Quoted for truth.

Farhan88
06-14-2010, 10:28 AM
We 're talking economics here, did Pakistan get even half as succesfull as India? Indians 're said to be most progressive Asians in UK while Pakistan stands on top of most useless immigrants. Atleast India's stability doesn't depend on western aid. And would u mind keeping your mouth shut about Hindus killing Muslims while back in '70 it were Pakii Muslims killing Bangali Muslims? And India is save already and unlike your kuffar nation they aint break down easily 'cause like u they haven't interfered with neighbouring countries. No wonder despite of being a Hindu nation they got nearly all Islamic nations as their friends but look at u poor Pakiis. And yeah calling me an Indian and infact, me, BLS wror, Maseed wror and anyone from Pakhtunkhwa speaking against Pakistan 're paid by India, Israel and USA. First it were u who were American dogs but since they started to pay my type of people instead or your Napakistan, now its our turn. :)

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Really? Russia also occupied Tajikistan, now is Tajikistan dependent on Russia and do they speak Russian? Russia also occupied Uzbekistan, now is Uzbekistan also dependent on Russia and speak Russian? And there are many more countries which were occupied by Russia but yet they are much better off than Afghanistan and in much better state than us, then how come despite of your holy land Pakistan having 'helped' us against Russia still we are worse off? How come miss Pakistaniyat?'


Just few words NO one can impose its policies unless you yourself and your people are supporting the outsiders.

After we driven out Russia, your ethnic hatred for each others have worsened everything.


LOL, ghairatmand? What ghairat my dear? When you took birth from India's womb then it was USA who fed you with Dollars, where was your ghairat back then to refuse their money? Now when Taliban backfired you, you actually realised we are Muslims and USA is the actual 'kuffar'? Keep your ghairat in your pocket because this very same ghairat of yours is already destroying you and it will so in the future. Pakistanian aw ghairat...........



I wonder if you have the same ghairat to drive out US who have invaded you ?? But nah i think its still our ghairatmand Pashtuns who are standing like a rock against this invasion.

Levanaye Zalmaye
06-14-2010, 10:42 AM
I wonder if you have the same ghairat to drive out US who have invaded you ?? But nah i think its still our ghairatmand Pashtuns who are standing like a rock against this invasion.

What about the ghairatmand Pashtuns who are standing up to the Punjabi invasion? Or is the invader ghairatmand in this case? Just confirming your double-standards.

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:42 AM
We 're talking economics here, did Pakistan get even half as succesfull as India? Indians 're said to be most progressive Asians in UK while Pakistan stands on top of most useless immigrants. Atleast India's stability doesn't depend on western aid. And would u mind keeping your mouth shut about Hindus killing Muslims while back in '70 it were Pakii Muslims killing Bangali Muslims? And India is save already and unlike your kuffar nation they aint break down easily 'cause like u they haven't interfered with neighbouring countries. No wonder despite of being a Hindu nation they got nearly all Islamic nations as their friends but look at u poor Pakiis. And yeah calling me an Indian and infact, me, BLS wror, Maseed wror and anyone from Pakhtunkhwa speaking against Pakistan 're paid by India, Israel and USA. First it were u who were American dogs but since they started to pay my type of people instead or your Napakistan, now its our turn. :)

:lal29: Oh good to know that Americans have found new type of dogs

Bhindi dogs are more loyal i guess

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 10:43 AM
Jana, Wasnt jinnah a rajput hindu convert to Ismailism, wasnt Pakistan called bhindia once haha

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 10:45 AM
:lal29: Oh good to know that Americans have found new type of dogs

Bhindi dogs are more loyal i guess

Again typical Paakistani Arrogance towards others.

I wonder who gets 1.5 billion dollars a month in Military Aid. I guess it comes from the sky or grows on trees.

And dont call members here as Dogs, or i will have to unleash my own collection of Insults towards Daughters and sons of Napakistan Army officers.

Kind Regards

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:46 AM
What about the ghairatmand Pashtuns who are standing up to the Punjabi invasion? Or is the invader ghairatmand in this case? Just confirming your double-standards.


When you betray your own country you should be dealt with the law and rules.


There is no invasion. We the people of Pukhtunkhwa back in 47 chosen to join this nation instead of fulfilling the wishes of mir jafars who were jumping up and down assuring the Hindus that Pashtuns will join Hindus. But we did not join hindus.


There is no invasion we are free to work and we are free to do everything which any other Pakistani with from any other ethnicity is doing.


We are far better off in our country rather than banking on those who killed us when Ghafar Khan befooled us to migrate

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:51 AM
Again typical Paakistani Arrogance towards others.

I wonder who gets 1.5 billion dollars a month in Military Aid. I guess it comes from the sky or grows on trees.

And dont call members here as Dogs, or i will have to unleash my own collection of Insults towards Daughters and sons of Napakistan Army officers.

Kind Regards


If you are so civilized than please first check who is using the word dogs.

Anyone who calls my people as dogs is himself a bigger dog.
Napak are those who do not know the ethics to present their point of view logically and rather resort to abuses.

Sure go ahead you can unleash dirty language but i wont because my parents have raised me as a civilized Pathan gal.

Levanaye Zalmaye
06-14-2010, 10:53 AM
When you betray your own country you should be dealt with the law and rules.


There is no invasion. We the people of Pukhtunkhwa back in 47 chosen to join this nation instead of fulfilling the wishes of mir jafars who were jumping up and down assuring the Hindus that Pashtuns will join Hindus. But we did not join hindus.


There is no invasion we are free to work and we are free to do everything which any other Pakistani with from any other ethnicity is doing.


We are far better off in our country rather than banking on those who killed us when Ghafar Khan befooled us to migrate

Okay so long story short:

Pashtun resistance to America - honorable
Pashtun resistance to Punjab - traitorous

But "there is no invasion" stands atop mount denial. It's quite telling.

And who said anything about Hindus? They can drink cow piss all day and do the monkey-god dance and I still won't care.

Jana
06-14-2010, 10:53 AM
Jana, Wasnt jinnah a rajput hindu convert to Ismailism, wasnt Pakistan called bhindia once haha

We dont care who was who before joining Islam and becoming a Muslim is enough in Islam to give equality.

And :) no bhindia came into being in 47 ;) before that my country and bhindia both were sub-continent

Levanaye Zalmaye
06-14-2010, 10:57 AM
We dont care who was who before joining Islam and becoming a Muslim is enough in Islam to give equality.

And :) no bhindia came into being in 47 ;) before that my country and bhindia both were sub-continent

What's this against bhindaye? It's an excellent vegetable that I enjoy occasionally. Please refrain from using it's name as a slur.

And you can't deny that before 1947 (or before 1707 or 1526, etc, etc), Pashtunkhwa and Balochistan were part of Central Asia/Afghanistan/Iranic-empires whereas Punjab and Sindh were traditional Indian areas. It's only after Bannu that Punjab and hence India began.

Pakistan is a combination of parts of Afghanistan with two Indian provinces. Unless it's taught differently at mount denial.

Shayesta
06-14-2010, 11:00 AM
Just few words NO one can impose its policies unless you yourself and your people are supporting the outsiders.
Then why are your people blaming India, USA and Israel for situation in Balochistan? I guess your own people let it come this far?


After we driven out Russia, your ethnic hatred for each others have worsened everything.
That's because after Russia we had to deal with your barbaric, uncivilized creation called Taliban. Now why are you crying like shemales, blaming India, USA and Israel (who doesn't give a sh*t about your Pakistan) since the favour of Taliban has been returned?


I wonder if you have the same ghairat to drive out US who have invaded you ??
Do you have enough ghairat to tell Pakistani government to stop using Pakhtunkhwa for American Dollars? I don't think so, just wait and watch how with the bidding of USA once even Pakhtunkhwa will be under US control.


But nah i think its still our ghairatmand Pashtuns who are standing like a rock against this invasion.
Against who and which invasion? Against who are your ghairatmand people standing, care to elaborate?

When you betray your own country you should be dealt with the law and rules.
What laws and rules does Zardari Ji have to go through then?


We the people of Pukhtunkhwa back in 47 chosen to join this nation instead of fulfilling the wishes of mir jafars who were jumping up and down assuring the Hindus that Pashtuns will join Hindus.
And do you remember how you were given the option to vote? Only 500.000 people voted and the difference was not more than five percent between India and Pakistan, those who wanted an independent Pukhtunistan got jailed and tortured for not choosing Pakistan or either India. Ask your grandfather about it. And besides, looking at the Khans in India we can tell that Pukhtoons are much more respected in India that your holy land.


There is no invasion we are free to work and we are free to do everything which any other Pakistani with from any other ethnicity is doing.
Even those from Afghanistan can work and live in Pakistan and you will find plenty of Pekhawris in Jalalabad, does it mean Pakistan is our friend? Or how your Pakistani artists keep running towards India for success, does it mean India is your friend?

Jana
06-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Okay so long story short:

Pashtun resistance to America - honorable

Pashtun resistance to Punjab - traitorous

Levanaye khabara da daa chee there is no war over this notion in my country.

Grievances are found in one family against even your own brothers this doesnt mean that we are at war with our family.

And another thing do you support US invasion ???????

But "there is no invasion" stands atop mount denial. It's quite telling.

Prove it.

And who said anything about Hindus? They can drink cow piss all day and do the monkey-god dance and I still won't care.

Neither am i concerned what they eat or drink or worship thats their personal matter i am only talking about our decision to join Pakistan

tor_khan
06-14-2010, 11:28 AM
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Farhan88
06-14-2010, 11:28 AM
Bhindi dogs are more loyal i guess
Oh u dont want to know!


We are one against common enemy i.e US and other invaders in Afghanistan. Simple as that.

Common enemy of u? Of yourself? Unlike your wahshi creation Taliban, USA is atleast providing north of their country eduction and construction. What 've u ever done good for any Muslim nation that u expect all Muslims to take US as their enemy?


Anyone who calls my people as dogs is himself a bigger dog.
Napak are those who do not know the ethics to present their point of view logically and rather resort to abuses.
U pan Pakiis should actually feel happy by being called a dog 'cause dogs 're very loyal creatures: just like your type of people 're loyal to Pakistan. :)


Sure go ahead you can unleash dirty language but i wont because my parents have raised me as a civilized Pathan gal.
A civilized Pathan would know the difference between Pashtun and Pathan. U mean as a civilized Punjabi-loyal?


And :) no bhindia came into being in 47 ;) before that my country and bhindia both were sub-continent
Pakhtunkhwa also was part of Afghanistan but that doesnt mean like Pakistan Afghanistan is also at the age of your grandfather. India is much older than u and only difference here is that it took u longer to snatch Indian territory, u aint same age as them and nor same stage as them.[/QUOTE]

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 11:40 AM
Dear Jana

If Pakistan is against Terrorism then why not put Hafiz Saeed into Prison and do operation in Punjab? I guess being a terrorist and being a proud Pakistani is very popular in your Army masses.

Why do you always bring India into this topic? Zahid made a very good point, why do Muslim nations prefer India then Pakistan? how come when Yassar Arafat was alive, he choose India over Pakistan? Its because Pakistan=Trouble, everybody knows who are your Army are and what they are capable of doing.

Kind Regards

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 12:57 PM
Then why are your people blaming India, USA and Israel for situation in Balochistan? I guess your own people let it come this far
Foreign hands are definately involved in inflaming the baloch insurgency. Balochs could not give tough time to pakistan on its own. So they are seeking help from india just like bengalis sought help from them in 1971 against pakistan. The channel and route of this help is from afghanistan which is neighbour to balochistan. Beside balochistan there are also other extreme backward and neglected areas in pakistan like interior sindh, cholistan, FATA, Gilgat-baltistan etc but there is no insurgency there. So responding for negligence and deprivation through armed struggle points towards involvement of foriegn hands.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 01:03 PM
Foreign hands are definately involved in inflaming the baloch insurgency. Balochs could not give tough time to pakistan on its own. So they are seeking help from india just like bengalis sought help from them in 1971 against pakistan. The channel and route of this help is from afghanistan which is neighbour to balochistan. Beside balochistan there are also other extreme backward and neglected areas in pakistan like interior sindh, cholistan, FATA, Gilgat-baltistan etc but there is no insurgency there. So responding for negligence and deprivation through armed struggle points towards involvement of foriegn hands.


So what if a foreign hand is in bolochistan, the Bolochistan people have openly accepted anybodies help to fight the cruel barbaric Pakistan Army, this is no conspiracy theory, Baloch people have made it very clear.

Secondly Jinnah Sahib, how many countries has pakistan had a hand in destroying, from chechnya to India, every terrorist attack has some link to pakistan, look at the 7/7 bombers in London, all of them traced to Punjab Pakistan.

I suggest you take a very good look at your own Pakistan and its role of itnerfearing in other peoples affairs.

According to you, India may have made the bolach movement, but tell me how many movements have Pakistan made? from Taliban to Lashkar e taybaa and the long list goes on.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 01:06 PM
Foreign hands are definately involved in inflaming the baloch insurgency. Balochs could not give tough time to pakistan on its own. So they are seeking help from india just like bengalis sought help from them in 1971 against pakistan. The channel and route of this help is from afghanistan which is neighbour to balochistan. Beside balochistan there are also other extreme backward and neglected areas in pakistan like interior sindh, cholistan, FATA, Gilgat-baltistan etc but there is no insurgency there. So responding for negligence and deprivation through armed struggle points towards involvement of foriegn hands.


Oh Jinnah Sahib

Refrain from Calling FATA as a extremely backward society, just because we dont dance our daughter as you do in Peshawer, doesnt make us backward nor uneducated. My whole family are educated but they still live the beautiful tribal life of a Pashtun. Just because we dont dance like Punjabis with Attan music doesnt mean we are not educated as you guys in Peshawer. Luffy, are you sure your from a Hindkowan?

Soon there will be a full scale insurgency throught out the tribal belt, you just and wait, all the signs are adding up day by day.

Kind Regards

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 01:14 PM
So what if a foreign hand is in bolochistan, the Bolochistan people have openly accepted anybodies help to fight the cruel barbaric Pakistan Army, this is no conspiracy theory, Baloch people have made it very clear.

Secondly Jinnah Sahib, how many countries has pakistan had a hand in destroying, from chechnya to India, every terrorist attack has some link to pakistan, look at the 7/7 bombers in London, all of them traced to Punjab Pakistan.

I suggest you take a very good look at your own Pakistan and its role of itnerfearing in other peoples affairs.

According to you, India may have made the bolach movement, but tell me how many movements have Pakistan made? from Taliban to Lashkar e taybaa and the long list goes on.

Kind Regards
Shayesta sister denied the involvement of foriegn hands in balochistan and you and me corrected it. end of story.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 01:17 PM
Oh Jinnah Sahib

Refrain from Calling FATA as a extremely backward society, just because we dont dance our daughter as you do in Peshawer, doesnt make us backward nor uneducated. My whole family are educated but they still live the beautiful tribal life of a Pashtun. Just because we dont dance like Punjabis with Attan music doesnt mean we are not educated as you guys in Peshawer. Luffy, are you sure your from a Hindkowan?

Soon there will be a full scale insurgency throught out the tribal belt, you just and wait, all the signs are adding up day by day.

Kind Regards
FATA is poor and backward area. No one with sane mind cant deny it.
Many of you people apply for quota seats for backward areas in institutions.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 01:18 PM
:running: You sound like a Bhindi . oh yeh bhindistan getting :pullinghair:

Loll bhindi, you sound very logical. Soviet-Afghan war is very complex issue, Pakistan just saved its own backside and alligned its interests with America. After all, one of the motivations for Britain to create Pakistan was its purpose to act as a anti-soviet state. It is pure power politics. Also, in 1947 only a few settled districts were allowed to vote in a referendum (interestingly, there was no referendum in other provinces, especially since the then pashtunkhwa voted for the congress allied Khudai Khidmathgars). During the referendum, Pakistan support was only 50.5 % and that was after the ruling party boycotted it. Lolzz on what basis is a boycotted referendum representative? Pashtuns of South Pashtunkhwa did not vote, nor the ones in malakand division, or the Pashtuns of FATA. What is extremely funny is that a man of Faqir i ipi's stature was fighting Pakistan. Now you can hide Jinnah's sins all you want to, but Jinnah and muslim league combined were not even half the man Faqir i ipi was. He was even respected by the British for his bravery. Now since you rely on mutaliye pakistan it will take you awhile to wake up to realities and get out of the fantasy world you are in.

tor_khan
06-14-2010, 01:23 PM
one of the motivations for Britain to create Pakistan was its purpose to act as a anti-soviet state.

Quite right. Let's not overlook this aspect of history.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 01:29 PM
I would also like to add that yes there is a high likelihood that foreigners are helping Baloch insurgency, but that does not negate their grievances or their movement. Look at history, the french supported the American revolutionaries against Britain, the west and its son Pakistan as well as Saudi supported the mujahideen against the Russians, Pakistan is supporting fighters in Kashmir. Without this support such fights would not be successful, but they would not negate them. Only a hypocrite would cheer on one as legitimate and cry foul over the other. If it is ok to destabilize another government for the independence of on people, it is legitimate in the other case. Especially since the baloch are far more anti-pakistan, are adamant about their independence and have been treating like dirt for the past 60 years. This is not their first insurgency and it won't be their last either.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 01:34 PM
Luffy and Jana, Do you support ISI and why?
You have "jumped" to a conclusion, what made you think that i am a supporter and fan of ISI? Read my posts, they are not that much. Between i do not support ISI.

abubaker
06-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Levanaye khabara da daa chee there is no war over this notion in my country.

Grievances are found in one family against even your own brothers this doesnt mean that we are at war with our family.
but one brother doesn't murder the other


And another thing do you support US invasion ???????



Prove it.



Neither am i concerned what they eat or drink or worship thats their personal matter i am only talking about our decision to join Pakistan

but one brother doesn't murder the other,

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 02:39 PM
FATA is poor and backward area. No one with sane mind cant deny it.
Many of you people apply for quota seats for backward areas in institutions.

Jinnah Sahib

Many you people? so when have fellow Pashtuns been other people.

Luffy, Just admit to us all, that your a Hindkomar? I mean you speak just like one. Nex time India bashes Pakistan for the fourth time, dont run to the so called backward people haha.

Talk about being backward,show a region in Pakistan that doesnt suffer from backwardness.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 02:41 PM
Shayesta sister denied the involvement of foriegn hands in balochistan and you and me corrected it. end of story.

So, if people request the assistance of other nations, how does that become a foreign Hand? So i guess, the creation of Napukistan was created on the foreign hand as the British helped establish and founded the Pakistani Fauge and Airforce and Jinnah was supported by the British Army.

I dont know what they teach you in Peshawer, but overthrow the Hindkomar rulers first before you speak of others.

Kind Regards

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 03:58 PM
is this news to anyone?
Are you that tajik from afghanforums?

Shayesta
06-14-2010, 04:01 PM
Foreign hands are definately involved in inflaming the baloch insurgency. Balochs could not give tough time to pakistan on its own. So they are seeking help from india just like bengalis sought help from them in 1971 against pakistan.
You left the Bangalis with no choice than to fight you for which they took Indian support, same wise you are leaving Balochis with no choice than to fight you and take Indian support again. Just like how you are eager to free Kashmir from India, exactly same wise India is eager to free any province from you which requests them to. Simple as that.


The channel and route of this help is from afghanistan which is neighbour to balochistan.
Here is a question; Why doesn't your government close the borders then? And now don't start your crap by saying Afghan government won't let you because Afghan government doesn't hold any power regarding foreign countries whatsoever! If you left the border open for transport of American weapons from Pakistan to Afghanistan, then that's your problem.

Shayesta sister denied the involvement of foriegn hands in balochistan and you and me corrected it. end of story.
You didn't understand the entire point. She was pointing then it's Afghans fault for letting foreign influence come to their country, same wise I was pointing out that in that case it should be Pakistani fault to let Indian interference come on their land. Got it now? I didn't deny anything.

Are you that tajik from afghanforums?
Don't worry about Mano, very soon you will see who she is, LOL.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Jinnah Sahib

Many you people? so when have fellow Pashtuns been other people.

Luffy, Just admit to us all, that your a Hindkomar? I mean you speak just like one. Nex time India bashes Pakistan for the fourth time, dont run to the so called backward people haha.

Talk about being backward,show a region in Pakistan that doesnt suffer from backwardness.

Kind Regards

You are not worthy of attention.
Your false and childish assumptions will not help you in making your arguements heavy. You are constantly trying to provoke me so that i may indulge in useless exchange of personal attacks with you from which you seems to derive pleasure. I am surprised that you are once nominated as member of month with such attitude.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 04:10 PM
You are not worthy of attention.
Your false and childish assumptions will not help you in making your arguements heavy. You are constantly trying to provoke me so that i may indulge in useless exchange of personal attacks with you from which you seems to derive pleasure. I am surprised that you are once nominated as member of month with such attitude.

I was nominated for a reason and i have one of the highest thanks than any other member, this must be a reason, i am not childish and wouldnt take some kid from Peshawer who thinks hes knows everything very seriously. Neither will a consider a Pashtun a Pashtun if he/she wants to promote jinnahism or Pakistaniyat which is a obstacle to Pashtun unity and the unification of all Pashtun tribes.

You are not worthy to be called a fellow Pashtuns when you blantely insult Tribal Pashtuns as backward people, then you insult balochis as barbaric people just because they refuse Punjabi domination and their struggle for Freedom.

Kind Regards

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 04:17 PM
You are not worthy to be called a fellow Pashtuns when you blantely insult Tribal Pashtuns as backward people,
As i said you have kiddie brain, FATA is a backward area in terms of progress and development. Quota Seats are reserved for it for its area being backward. I have never met a single tribal who call his area a as rich, developed and advanced.

Mano
06-14-2010, 05:21 PM
It is to me. I love ISI. It works for OUR interests. NOT YOURS.


and welcome here.


whose interests?



Are you that tajik from afghanforums?


what tajik? i will not bother discussing whether i am tajik or pashtun or anything else. i am an Afghan patriot whose interest is in the well being of the Afghan people and nation

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 06:13 PM
Any Afghan working for the betterment of Afghanistan and its intrests is true Afghan regardless of ethnic group. Majority of Afghans would die to defend their country including all ethnicities in Afghanistan as proved during the soviet Jihad. Those who want to divide us are working for our enemies intrests and we must stop them in their tracks. I don't care if a pashtun from pakhtunkhwa works for the intrests of pakistan against Afghanistan then he is not my brother. I denounce him and would take a hazara or tajik as my brother over him anyday.

working for pakistani intrests is fine as long as it doesn't involve working against Afghnistan's intrests. If their intrests collides a true pashtun would either stay neutral or support Afghanistan. The ones who don't are cowards and sell outs.

However I would like to make an addition. If any element in Afghanistan tries to work against Pashtunkhwa then similarly we need Afghanistan to rally alongside us. Although this scenario is implausible since Afghanistan can't really work counter to Pashtunkhwa, anymore can pashtunkhwa work counter to Afghanistan. Our interests, trade, culture and destiny is tied too close. Bottomline is that Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa should realize we can't trust our neighbours east of the indus or west of herat. Better we start rallying for our own interests. The gifts of ISI policy - ruined malakand, ruined schools, burned bridges, destroyed infrastructure and refugee camps, etc. Ofcourse jeevae jeevae :-p

BLS_1919v2.0
06-14-2010, 06:25 PM
Very well said rora, I assumed pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa and Afghanistan to be one. But there is truth in what you pointed out and its true that we are not at that stage yet. More work needs to be done both in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa to make people aware of this fact. Our destinies are definitely eternally interlinked.

This has been the jist of my argument for so long. We are too intertwined to support pakistan's, Iran's or NA's interest. If Afghanistan is unstable, Pashtunkhwa is in problems both economically and socially. However, we are not nearly as affected if there is an unstable Panjab or sindh (not that I support such things). Isn't it tragic that Pakistan and India are playing a proxy war in our lands, and we sit here deaf, dumb and blind to it. I don't care about their methods, but I want Pashtuns/Afghans to recognize their interests are not ours. Once we recognize this, we can get out of this idea of blaming others for our problems. We can't blame Iran or Pakistan for looking out for themselves, we only have ourselves to blame. Why are we so quiet here? We don't we at least voice a common political agenda (even though that is the most logical thing)? We don't even need to talk about a single state yet, we can start off with our common political interests and goals. Let the pakistani govt and others worry about their interests, it is not ours.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 07:06 PM
As i said you have kiddie brain, FATA is a backward area in terms of progress and development. Quota Seats are reserved for it for its area being backward. I have never met a single tribal who call his area a as rich, developed and advanced.


As i said before, show me a single place in your Pakistan that isnt backward? i never said tribal areas are advanced and developed, maybe due to your Pakistan those regions have been used and abused for political interests. I just find it funny somebody from Peshawer and an Hindkowan to call others as backward and especially from the Tribal areas.

Your just twising words as usual, this is a very common habit amongst the Jinnah supporters.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-14-2010, 07:10 PM
Jinnah Sahib, can you show where Pakistan has done anything good for the Tribal people, and do you hate the Tribal people because they dont listen to Nazia Iqbal nor allow their womans to dance naked at weddings? or is that only for the Advance people of Peshawer.

Michin Khel
06-14-2010, 08:01 PM
This mano is the person who refuses pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa as afghans and calls them pakies and dhalkhors even if they are anti-pakistanis on another forum.

Mayana
06-14-2010, 08:07 PM
This mano is the person who refuses pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa as afghans and calls them pakies and dhalkhors even if they are anti-pakistanis on another forum.


No need for Mano to do that.
People like yourself, Pakistani, Jana and Punjabi deliberately call themselves Pakistanis and even take pride in doing so. No need for anyone else to do that.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-15-2010, 04:12 AM
Luffy Jinnah Sahib

Mano does not consider Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa as Dhaalkhors,I know this Mano very well from Afghanforums.

Mano is a great Pashtun patriot.

Kind Regards

MazloomyarMaseed
06-15-2010, 04:17 AM
This mano is the person who refuses pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa as afghans and calls them pakies and dhalkhors even if they are anti-pakistanis on another forum.


Quoted for Propaghanda

MazloomyarMaseed
06-15-2010, 04:51 AM
Levanaye khabara da daa chee there is no war over this notion in my country.

Grievances are found in one family against even your own brothers this doesnt mean that we are at war with our family.

And another thing do you support US invasion ???????



Prove it.



Neither am i concerned what they eat or drink or worship thats their personal matter i am only talking about our decision to join Pakistan

Again Jana, I dnt know what they feed you at the female Military Dorm in Pakistan but how can you compare the current war within ones family, if you cant see, the war is on pashtuns and Punjab is making alot of money through aid and military assistance from the West.

Pakistan has not only made games with Pashtuns but its a dishonest state. I understand you may be in a Military Family, and you dont want to loose the upper class education that Pakistan provides you, but your life and world is very much different than other pashtuns, and the day will soon arrive when every Pakistani soldeirs will be killed starting from Bolochistan.

The only thing that is keeping Pakistan alive is the West, as Pakistan is the wests interest. I really doubt China will give the same large amounts of cash to Pakistan as America and the EU does.

Secondly, Jana, you need to go and see Reality and actually go outside your barraks.

Not everybody is so naive to fall for ISPR Propaghanda, so go and visit those areas,see for yourself what your Pakistan Army truely is and you will be shocked.

Look at the current game Pakistan army is doing by making abdullah mahsud group to attack hakeemullah mahsud group, in DI Khan you can see the same talibs who slaughtered those chinese engineers patrolling with Pakistan Army and Police, and not just this, people such as turkistan bhittani and misbahudeen and mohammand baz all are well known talibs and are on government payroll, goes to show where American dollars are being spent on eh

Kind Regards

Shayesta
06-15-2010, 05:21 AM
This mano is the person who refuses pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa as afghans and calls them pakies and dhalkhors even if they are anti-pakistanis on another forum.
LOL, aww. Now since you and your type of people haven't got anything to say any more to back their arguments, you gonna decide to start about Mano who hasn't even started yet about Pakistan? :wub:

Michin Khel
06-16-2010, 04:51 AM
LOL, aww. Now since you and your type of people haven't got anything to say any more to back their arguments, you gonna decide to start about Mano who hasn't even started yet about Pakistan? :wub:
That was not about arguement, that was a warning. I know her from another forum. She is definately a patriotic afghan but not pashtun. She has called khyber-pakhtunkhwa as crapola and find it very insulting and disgraceful to title of afghan if it is associated with pashtuns of pakistan. I dont blame her for her such thinking , minorities of afghanistan can not like the idea of 30 million pashtuns joining their country and turning them into absolute minority.

Shayesta
06-16-2010, 06:38 AM
^ Even I know her from an other forum and I have seen how she defended those Pukhtoons from Pakhtunkhwa who saw Afghans as their brothers, Maseed of this forum is an example who was at the same forum. She only got in arguments with those Pakistanis kept making threads about Afghan ethnics, mixed marriages and ethical clashes. Stop spreading lies.

Michin Khel
06-16-2010, 06:46 AM
^ Even I know her from an other forum and I have seen how she defended those Pukhtoons from Pakhtunkhwa who saw Afghans as their brothers, Maseed of this forum is an example who was at the same forum. She only got in arguments with those Pakistanis kept making threads about Afghan ethnics, mixed marriages and ethical clashes. Stop spreading lies.
I would have given links to her controvertial posts here but the links of that forum are censored here.

Maiwand
06-16-2010, 10:33 AM
Afghan resistance statement
Response of the Leadership Council of the Islamic Emirate in Reaction to the Maligning Report of the London School of Economics

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan:


Tuesday, 15 June 2010

A Study Team of the London School of Economics has claimed in a report that the intelligence agency of Pakistan has been supporting the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan militarily and logistically. It has claimed that Pakistani intelligence officials practically participate in meetings of the alleged Quetta Council and impose their discretions on members of the Leadership Council.

While considering this report of the London School of Economic as a merely baseless propaganda launched to promote British and American interests, the Islamic Emirate, meanwhile, declares its stand as follows:

1. The military power of the Evil Coalition including American, British and NATO forces have failed to prevent the victorious operations of the Mujahideen of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Now they want to utilize their academic and research institutes in the work of the occupation of Afghanistan and for oppression of the Afghan Muslim people. The baseless report of the London School of Economics is a case in point. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan believes, the said report by the so-called research institute is a dictated drama of the political rulers of the West. It is not an investigative report based on facts and reasons, ethically carried out by academic research institute.

2. The current Jihad and resistance against the invaders are being led by the leadership of the Islamic Emirate based inside Afghanistan – obviously with the help and support of the Afghan Mujahid people. The enemy itself admits, the Islamic Emirate has control over 70% of the Afghan soil. The Islamic Emirate does not need to have such councils outside the country in order to continue the current popular resistance.

3. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan has always emphasized that the present resistance is completely an home-grown Afghan Islamic resistance against the aggression of the invaders. It is not possible to lead such resistance simply by foreign support instead of the native support of the Afghan masses. Had a foreign support rather than indigenous support , ever played a role in such cases, then the surrogate administration of Karzai has military, espionage, economic and political support of 49 countries, why it has failed to prevent the growing national resistance of the Afghan Mujahid nation despite the support of the foreign invaders that the Administration enjoys?

4. Rulers of the government of Pakistan claim that they are the frontline pioneers of the American ignited war. They have not spared to do whatever was in their capacity to do. Hence, it is not rationale to say that they are supporting the jihad and resistance against the Americans in Afghanistan. Had Pakistan supported the Mujahideen, then manifestations and impact of their support would have categorically become visible.

5. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan openly invites all academic and research institutes, military and intelligence entities of the world including the London School of Economics to come to Afghanistan and behold the ranks of the Islamic Emirate with their own eyes that whether the Afghan gallant people or any foreigner make up the Mujahideen and leaders of the Jihad. Then again, they should check the ranks of the Karzai stooge administration to see whether their leaders are the gallant Afghans or the open enemies of our country and the invaders. After that, they should put, their academic and investigative report conducted on the basis of the ground realities, at the disposal of the public of the world. Had they done so, these academic institutes would have abided by their recognized norms and principles; would have saved their caliber and reputations, and produced useful academic report. At least, it would not have been a fabricated drama, ironically ordered by the arrogant powers.

6. To end, the Islamic Emirate calls on all independent countries of the world, particularly, the neighboring countries to extend their support to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan to put an end to the occupation of the arrogants so that our oppressed and suffering countrymen can get rid of the occupation of the tyrants and form an independent system.

Leadership Council
Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Nadir Shah
06-16-2010, 10:35 AM
This response has unmistakable similarity to the statements of the Inter Services Public Relations. It has surely been drafted in Rawalpindi.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-16-2010, 10:53 AM
This response has unmistakable similarity to the statements of the Inter Services Public Relations. It has surely been drafted in Rawalpindi.


hahaha very true, of course its drafted in rawalpindi, I bet some Pakistani wrote it and made it go viral.


Nadir Shah, I returned from DI Khan, I met some of the Afghan talib there under Commmandar Baz mohmmand, I even have his Photo taken with me, You see, even he told me ISI controls the whole group to do jihad in Afghanistan, he even told me one Pakistani army bridgier controls the whole unit when it comes to law issues etc, Not just this, there was a family friend of a friend of mine, who returned from fighting in Afghanistan,He was arrested by the Pakistan Police, later a Pakistani Army bridgier visited his prison cell and released him on the grounds he poses no threat to Pakistan, but its okay to bomb and kill those in Afghanistan.

You see these Westerners sat in the peaceful West, like to preach to others to follow and support Taliban, but they themselves dont even live with any talibs neither do they even know whats truely going on, even if you show them the truth, they still ignore it etc.

Well, let time tell, When ISI is exposed and its friendship with Taliban, lets see how they shift them from north waziristan etc, Lets see how strong the Taliban get when there is nobody funding nor supporting it.

Kind Regards

Nadir Shah
06-16-2010, 11:01 AM
hahaha very true, of course its drafted in rawalpindi, I bet some Pakistani wrote it and made it go viral.


You Nadir Shah, I returned from DI Khan, I met some of the Afghan talib there under Commmandar Baz mohmmand, I even have his Photo taken with me, You see, even he told me ISI controls the whole group to do jihad in Afghanistan, he even told me one Pakistani army bridgier controls the whole unit when it comes to law issues etc, Not just this, there was a family friend of a friend of mine, who returned from fighting in Afghanistan,He was arrested by the Pakistan Police, later a Pakistani Army bridgier visited his prison cell and released him on the grounds he poses no threat to Pakistan, but its okay to bomb and kill those in Afghanistan.

You see these Westerners sat in the peaceful West, like to preach to others to follow and support Taliban, but they themselves dont even live with any talibs neither do they even know whats truely going on, even if you show them the truth, they still ignore it etc.

Well, let time tell, When ISI is exposed and its friendship with Taliban, lets see how they shift them from north waziristan etc, Lets see how strong the Taliban get when there is nobody funding nor supporting it.

Kind Regards

Malgariya, its not only the Westeners. Our Moslem brethren to the east of the Indus River are also the main promoters of this point of view. They would have their bhangrhas and Cantonment golf courses and army clubs and LUMS and stuff but they would call the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa Mujahids.

Malgariya, we have historical precedence to predict what would happen. The other pet of ISI, Gulbaddin Hekmatyar, was a feared force as long as he was being canned by Rawalpindi. When the Punjabis shifted their favors to the Taliban militia, the Chaharasyab/Sarobi fortress of Hekmatyar fell like a house of cards. The Talibs have no support in Afghanistan. They will live as long as Rawalpindi lives. Maybe not even that long.

MazloomyarMaseed
06-16-2010, 11:10 AM
Malgariya, its not only the Westeners. Our Moslem brethren to the east of the Indus River are also the main promoters of this point of view. They would have their bhangrhas and Cantonment golf courses and army clubs and LUMS and stuff but they would call the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa Mujahids.

Malgariya, we have historical precedence to predict what would happen. The other pet of ISI, Gulbaddin Hekmatyar, was a feared force as long as he was being canned by Rawalpindi. When the Punjabis shifted their favors to the Taliban militia, the Chaharasyab/Sarobi fortress of Hekmatyar fell like a house of cards. The Talibs have no support in Afghanistan. They will live as long as Rawalpindi lives. Maybe not even that long.

What a Historic Photo

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/data/upimages/masoud-gul.jpg

Hamid Gul, Supporter of Taliban Shariat in Afghanistan with his Family(Where is the Hijab on his daughter, Uzma gul, owner of a coach business in Rawalpindi, I though Hamid gul opposed Womans education and Women working)

http://image.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/aeogae_351968_1%5B599636%5D.jpg

Nadir Shah
06-16-2010, 11:13 AM
What a Historic Photo

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/data/upimages/masoud-gul.jpg

Hamid Gul, Supporter of Taliban Shariat in Afghanistan with his Family(Where is the Hijab on his daughter, Uzma gul, owner of a coach business in Rawalpindi, I though Hamid gul opposed Womans education and Women working)

http://image.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/aeogae_351968_1%5B599636%5D.jpg

Those who speak of resistance against the American 'infidels' should be asked what they feel when the Punjabi Ijaz Ul Haq and the Arab Turki bin Faisal are standing on the sacred Afghan/Pashtun soil?

Nadir Shah
06-16-2010, 11:34 AM
Pakistan complains why Afghans are also friendly to Indians. Well it's because ISI wants to see our country destroyed. They have destroyed it already. We now have proof Pakistan supported Taliban.

But TALIBAN for Pakistan is a bad thing do you agree Nadir?

Malgariya, It is a symbiotic relationship, or at least it was. The ISI supported the Talibs in N, S Waziristan, Bajaur, Khyber, Swat initially to play the American presence in Afghanistan to it's own advantage. The War Against Terror was a golden goose for the **** establishment. It also wanted the Talibs to prosper in Central and N Pakhtunkhwa in order to provide space and man-power for the Talibs operating in Afghanistan. But I think it has become a frankenstein monster. Most outfits especially in N Waziristan and Bajaur are under ISI control. But I agree, let the ISI and Pak Army do whatever they want. The international community will see ISAF/NATO/UN Forces entry into C Pakhtunkhwa and Southern Punjab as the next logical step if the Pakis do not stop their undercover business.

r3alist
06-27-2010, 01:00 PM
a person with a brain and no agenda would ignore where the report is coming from

would look at the methodology or the report

would look at the sources

would look at the foot notes

would double check and verify their authenticity

would question the research methods

would examine the sources and their credability

and would THEN form an opinion



so why cant afghans do this?

do the above and then lets talk....

єѕαρχαι
06-27-2010, 01:16 PM
You guys lack sense , bringing 90s crap.

pakistan was taliban friendly and took a u turn due to american pressure after 9/11 this is the truth.
hameed gul doesnt worth a penny . he doesnt work for isi anymore . it was zia ul haq's era.

i believe isi has ties with afghan taliban . thats why they are not operating in north waziristan. but pakistani taliban are a headache for them.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-27-2010, 03:13 PM
You guys lack sense , bringing 90s crap.

pakistan was taliban friendly and took a u turn due to american pressure after 9/11 this is the truth.
hameed gul doesnt worth a penny . he doesnt work for isi anymore . it was zia ul haq's era.

i believe isi has ties with afghan taliban . thats why they are not operating in north waziristan. but pakistani taliban are a headache for them.




lol you have to look at the 90s, it was an important time and proof of what a failed policy strategic depth was. You all know this as a headache now, but there were people who saw it then in the 90s. Can you discuss Israel-Palestine without discussing previous events? Can you discuss India-Pakistan relations without discussing past events? So how can you do the same for Pashtun/Afghans? TTP is what is called blowback, and don't worry it is the beginning. Unfortunately we Pashtuns had to learn the hard way on how Pak ISI and army ruined our areas, but at least they know now.

khyaal
06-27-2010, 03:42 PM
You guys lack sense , bringing 90s crap.

pakistan was taliban friendly and took a u turn due to american pressure after 9/11 this is the truth.
hameed gul doesnt worth a penny . he doesnt work for isi anymore . it was zia ul haq's era.

i believe isi has ties with afghan taliban . thats why they are not operating in north waziristan. but pakistani taliban are a headache for them.





lol. Haven't you heard this that Once a Jew always a Jew.

Just lately Retired Col. Imam and RETIRED Brig Khwaja were sent to Waziristan. And in a video message both these guys confessed that they had been sent by Aslam Beg, himself a RETIRED army chief. Then what this shame persons have to do with Taliban if they are not on duty? For your information Javed khwaja got killed by a group named Asian Tigers in waziristan.

єѕαρχαι
06-27-2010, 05:20 PM
these guys are ex isi.. who still support taliban just like hamid gul.

pakistan policies always change. it got nothing to do with jews and yes situation is different from palestine. Its foreign policy which could change anytime.

the whole crap was started by mullah zia ul haq in the name of islam.
musharraf was secular. His model country was turkey . So the U turn happened.

what about dostum ? he is still alive.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-27-2010, 05:23 PM
these guys are ex isi.. who still support taliban just like hamid gul.

pakistan policies always change. it got nothing to do with jews and yes situation is different from palestine. Its foreign policy which could change anytime.

the whole crap was started by mullah zia ul haq in the name of islam.
musharraf was secular. His model country was turkey . So the U turn happened.

what about dostum ? he is still alive.




So are you telling me things happen in a political vacuum? What does Dostum have to do with this? Musharraf model may have been turkey but that was not the case in what happened in Pashtunkhwa. Come on man. Try a little harder.

єѕαρχαι
06-27-2010, 05:28 PM
Just giving you a sense about isi.

they were powerful in 90s due to american support.
But they got nothing in their hands now and they are busy capturing pakistani taliban.

BLS_1919v2.0
06-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Just giving you a sense about isi.

they were powerful in 90s due to american support.
But they got nothing in their hands now and they are busy capturing pakistani taliban.



Sher Khan they are still very influential, and so is the military brass. It is no coincidence it is called a state within a state. BTW CIA still pays for a 1/3rd of the budget, so I guess that argument kind of goes out, no?

erlangner
06-27-2010, 05:47 PM
ISI contacts with Mjahideen and the then taliban is not a secret and ISI was porud of it. We should see the contacts after 9/11, if they cut the contacts or still they are in contacts. It should be discussed.
Many rumours are there, and as far as my information and sense, ISI retired officers are much involved and also people in service involved in many cases. However, at the top level contacts are now limited although not completed disconnected, as they keep it for the future use.
I think ISI is not refusing these contacts as Kiani sahib said few days back that Afghan should provide strategic depth as our back is narrow physically and we have a strong enemy on our east.
Now, the question is, if people request for such relation or attack the person and nation where he/she needs protection.
ISI interference can be limited only when Pashtoons of Pakhtoonkhwa leave Pakistan or compell pakistan if they can to stop these practices of interfering Afghanistan, otherwise no chance. Ya for Punajb it is of no importance if Afghanistan is destroyed or not, but for many pashtoons it does matter. therefore such an awareness is needed. I appreciate Mehmmod Khan Achakzai, although I have many differences with him however, how he condemns and talk at each and every forum against the role of ISI and other agencies regarding militancy is 100% corect. Such an awareness in pashtoon masses can dilute this interference.

khyaal
06-27-2010, 05:55 PM
these guys are ex isi.. who still support taliban just like hamid gul.

But such activities require money and other resources which is not possible for retired officials to get. What do you think how and from whom they get such resources?

pakistan policies always change. it got nothing to do with jews and yes situation is different from palestine. Its foreign policy which could change anytime.

Their policy never changes. Just quote me an example. It was the West and the US whose policy changed towards Pakistan after the cold war and disintegration of the USSR. I don's see any of its policy change towards India, China, Saudi Arabia etc. I think what you have perceived of a policy change is actually a change of strategy.

the whole crap was started by mullah zia ul haq in the name of islam.

Lol. you are so simple. This all started back in early 50's. Just read a bit history of this country.

musharraf was secular. His model country was turkey . So the U turn happened.

Musharaf in his personal life might be secular but it was him who paved the way for the electoral victory of MMA through a change in election laws requiring a bachelor degree from each election candidate and on the other hand recognised the equivalency of Madrassas certificate to a Bachelor degree thus disqualifying many competent politicians and enabling MMA to win elections in Pakhtunkhwa. And thus he was the architect of the rule of Mullas in Pakhtunkhwa.

khyaal
06-27-2010, 10:31 PM
Musharraf is widely considered to ruin Pakistan

lol. But Pakistan was no heaven before Musharaf. Musharraf earned them billions of dollars through the double game with US and the West.

khyaal
06-27-2010, 10:48 PM
Have you seen the video of Musharraf when Indian people make fun of him? in this debate type of thing?


yeah i have seen part of it, especially when a Hindu Pandit woman tells him that she can't go back to her home. His reply was so ridiculous and so funny.

But when we say Musharaf's policy, we actually refer to the policy of Punjabi establishment.

Punjabi
06-27-2010, 11:08 PM
yeah i have seen part of it, especially when a Hindu Pandit woman tells him that she can't go back to her home. His reply was so ridiculous and so funny.

But when we say Musharaf's policy, we actually refer to the policy of Punjabi establishment.

What is wrong with you brother? Pakistan has democracy and we have Pukhtuns who love the country. Hundreds even exist here in Pukhtun forums. What do you mean Punjabi establishment> we have had Pashtun presidents, Pashtun army high ranks and pashtun intelligent officers.

khyaal
06-27-2010, 11:23 PM
What is wrong with you brother? Pakistan has democracy.

lol. Pakistan and democracy? Pakistan has created just an illusion of democracy where the de facto rulers will always be Punjab's military and civil bureaucracy.



. and we have Pukhtuns who love the country..

Yes the sold ones love their interests first and not your country, and disgraced Pashuns like Amir Muqam, Saifullah brothers are always ready for the higher bidder. So they ain't your real friends.

. What do you mean Punjabi establishment>.

Punjab's civil and military bureaucracy which has ruled this country since its creation.

. we have had Pashtun presidents, Pashtun army high ranks and pashtun intelligent officers.

But then India too had Muslim presidents. Btw, several Pashtuns had been in high ranks even during the British rule.

Punjabi
06-28-2010, 04:28 PM
lol. Pakistan and democracy? Pakistan has created just an illusion of democracy where the de facto rulers will always be Punjab's military and civil bureaucracy.



.

Yes the sold ones love their interests first and not your country, and disgraced Pashuns like Amir Muqam, Saifullah brothers are always ready for the higher bidder. So they ain't your real friends.

.

Punjab's civil and military bureaucracy which has ruled this country since its creation.

.

But then India too had Muslim presidents. Btw, several Pashtuns had been in high ranks even during the British rule.


That is not true nothing you said is true. you are not being realistic paaji. Pathans of Pakistan are very patriotic and they love Pakistan. Listen to there music. come to Peshawar and look for real life.

indian
07-04-2010, 07:14 AM
SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY

Saudi Finance (http://www.monies.cc/publications/saudi_finance.htm)

єѕαρχαι
07-04-2010, 07:17 AM
So what ?

indian
07-04-2010, 07:22 AM
So what ?


read it

єѕαρχαι
07-04-2010, 07:29 AM
NO , thank you