View Full Version : Question to the atheists


JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 06:05 AM
In this thread, we can ask our fellow Afghan atheist members questions.

My first question is..

How do you guys relate to the national anthem of Afghanistan? In the national anthem it clearly states that we will follow the one God and If you don't believe in the existence of God. Aren't you guys disrespecting Afghans and Afghanistan, and most importantly muslims...while you say it but don't mean it.

I just want to know your views.. Don't flame. my question is genuine.

thank you . here is the national anthem.

National Anthem of Afghanistan - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXpKvQ6oaMY)


دا وطن افغانستان دی دا عزت د هر افغان دی
کور د سولی کور د توری هر بچی یی قهرمان دی
دا وطن د تولو کور دی د بلوچو د ازبکو
د پښتون او هزاره وو د ترکمنو د تاجکو
ورسره عرب، گوجر دی پامیریان، نورستانیان
براهوی دی، قزلباش دی هم ایماق، هم پشه ییان
دا هیواد به تل ځلیږی لکه لمر پرشنه آسمان
په سینه کی د آسیا به لکه زړه وی جاویدان
نوم د حق مودی رهبر وایو الله اکبر وایو الله اکبر

Translation

This land is Afghanistan – It is the pride of every Afghan
The land of peace, the land of the sword – Its sons are all brave
This is the country of every tribe – Land of Baluch, and Uzbeks
Pashtoons, and Hazaras – Turkman and Tajiks with them,
Arabs and Gojars, Pamirian, Nooristanis
Barahawi, and Qizilbash – Also Aimaq, and Pashaye
This Land will shine for ever – Like the sun in the blue sky
In the chest of Asia – It will remain as the heart for ever
We will follow the one God – We all say, Allah is great, we all say, Allah is great

Al Hanif
11-15-2011, 08:23 AM
The day you will see a Persian telling you Iran is the land of Arabs or an Arab telling you his land is the land of Pashtuns, this day, trust me, is close to the Day of Judgment.

Why isn't Persian ethnicity included ? Are there more ethnic Arabs than ethnic Persians in Afghanistan ? Is it because you hate Shias ? If yes, then why are Hazaras included ?

The only explanation is that this anthem is a joke. It was made by globalist puppets in power. Non-Pashtuns in desguise who hate everything about Afghanistan like the secularists in this forum.

I have one question : is there any Afghan who really feels Afghan ? Or you feel more Pashtun than Afghan ? (I'm talking about nationality, I know that Afghan actually means Pashtun)

What I mean is : is there any Pashtun who loves Tajiks and Hazaras as much as he loves Pashtuns ? Is there brotherhood between those people or did it never existed ?

I can see Pakistani Pashtuns and Pakistani Punjabis being proud of Pakistan even if this country is an historical nonsense but I'm not sure I've ever seen the same thing about Afghanistan.

My opinion on the subject :


Pashtunistan should be a federal state of the future Caliphate with his own borders and the Durand line should be abolished. Borders should be based on ethnicities instead of historical nonsense.

Pashtunistan should be the land of Pashtuns, Punjabistan the land of Punjabis, Persia the land of Persians, Tajikistan the land of Tajiks, Arabia the land of Arabs... all of this being federal semi-independant states of the United States of Islam, under sharia law

badmash_khel
11-15-2011, 08:36 AM
^

persians are known as parsiwans or tajiks in Afghanistan. persian is greek and western term. natives don't use it. anways farsi language was adopted and made into modern farsi by natives of northern afghanistan, southern uzbekistan and tajikistan.

Yes, Afghans do feel Afghan. For pashtuns its easy to have the Afghan nationality because all of our modern history is shapped by pashtuns and national heroes and important figures are mainly pashtuns. pakistani pashtuns don't have the same luxury because pakistani heroes are people like allama iqbal, jannah, who are mostly non pashtuns. so its far easier for pashtuns of afghanistan to be connected with their national identity than pashtuns of pakistan. take the example of turkey, turks feel much more at ease with Turkey than kurds because Turkey history is shapped by them.

i agree with your other points though. the modern borders are made by colonialists to cause problems.

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 08:40 AM
Al Hanif...How can caliphate exist without a caliph though?

You are doing exactly the same thing forigners are doing, dividing the country based on ethnicities.. which is unislamic... you do realise that ethnicity breeds in-group bias? Its psychologically proven...

Punjabi
11-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Punjabistan ????
I never heard it
Do you mean " Khalistan "

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 08:55 AM
I'm still waiting for Soldat Amir and LZ's response..

Al Hanif
11-15-2011, 09:00 AM
^

persians are known as parsiwans or tajiks in Afghanistan. persian is greek and western term. natives don't use it. anways farsi language was adopted and made into modern farsi by natives of northern afghanistan, southern uzbekistan and tajikistan.

Yes, Afghans do feel Afghan. For pashtuns its easy to have the Afghan nationality because all of our modern history is shapped by pashtuns and national heroes and important figures are mainly pashtuns. pakistani pashtuns don't have the same luxury because pakistani heroes are people like allama iqbal, jannah, who are mostly non pashtuns. so its far easier for pashtuns of afghanistan to be connected with their national identity than pashtuns of pakistan. take the example of turkey, turks feel much more at ease with Turkey than kurds because Turkey history is shapped by them.

i agree with your other points though. the modern borders are made by colonialists to cause problems.

nice answer, thanks

Al Hanif...How can caliphate exist without a caliph though?

You are doing exactly the same thing forigners are doing, dividing the country based on ethnicities.. which is unislamic... you do realise that ethnicity breeds in-group bias? Its psychologically proven...

I didn't meant that Afghanistan should be divided rather than all ethnic groups in the Ummah should be more autonomous. That's what I wish because Utopia (=no borders and a Calip) will not happen before the coming of the Mahdi. The situation is the following : Pashtuns in Pakistan are ruled by Punjabis who only care about Punjabis, the life of the minorities in Afghanistan is extremely bad.

Nationalism is idolatry, Nationalism is the cancer of the Ummah but...

what I meant is that I wish the existing borders were more accurate borders to avoid conflicts and hatred.

There should be no borders in the Ummah territory but borders based on ethnicities are better than borders based on the will of colonial powers.

So I want to unite but the current situation is worse than anything else

I don't understand what you mean by "ethnicity breeds in-group bias" ?

badmash_khel
11-15-2011, 09:00 AM
I'm still waiting for Soldat Amir and LZ's response..
They are not atheists, just part time funky muslims brothas. :hairy:

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 09:29 AM
nice answer, thanks



I didn't meant that Afghanistan should be divided rather than all ethnic groups in the Ummah should be more autonomous. That's what I wish because Utopia (=no borders and a Calip) will not happen before the coming of the Mahdi. The situation is the following : Pashtuns in Pakistan are ruled by Punjabis who only care about Punjabis, the life of the minorities in Afghanistan is extremely bad.

Nationalism is idolatry, Nationalism is the cancer of the Ummah but...

what I meant is that I wish the existing borders were more accurate borders to avoid conflicts and hatred.

There should be no borders in the Ummah territory but borders based on ethnicities are better than borders based on the will of colonial powers.

So I want to unite but the current situation is worse than anything else

I don't understand what you mean by "ethnicity breeds in-group bias" ?

In-group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group%E2%80%93out-group_bias)

To be honest, as a muslim...you should make islam the core of your personal and group identity. Ethnicity, race, color etc., breeds in group - out group bias. Whats next.. muslims from africa should have their own state because they are all black.. why even confine them in these imaginary borders based on ethnicities..

Pashtuns claiming they are superier, tajeks claiming they are superier..then you have conflict in your hand.

Al Hanif
11-15-2011, 09:42 AM
In-group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group%E2%80%93out-group_bias)

To be honest, as a muslim...you should make islam the core of your personal and group identity. Ethnicity, race, color etc., breeds in group - out group bias. Whats next.. muslims from africa should have their own state because they are all black.. why even confine them in these imaginary borders based on ethnicities..

Pashtuns claiming they are superier, tajeks claiming they are superier..then you have conflict in your hand.

You are right. :smile1:

Soldat_Amir
11-15-2011, 10:12 AM
I'll answer this question as logically as possible. Can Arkhii Jamaludeen show me where on the Afghan Anthem does it say "Afghanistan is the land of Taliban, should be ruled by Sharia, stone women and young girls to death, and Hamid gul is our king"?????

Jamaludeen, would singing the national anthem with a rabab mean its un-Afghan? when infact the Rabab is unislamic and there are 1000s of Islamic text books that prohibit the use of musical instruments, with the drum being the only one permitted.

The Attan is a pagan dance, would doing Attan be classed as Un-Afghan, since its origins are unislamic?

Jamal, what about the Burqa? its an pagan arab dress code, does opposing it mean you are un Afghan?

I hope that helps.


If not, I will explain, an anthem can be reworded, changed, added, alterred and removed, just because the Afghan National Anthem mentions god, does not mean we should all follow the god of Arabia, or the god of Jerusalem.

I think this is a very crude attempt to attack someone, Jamaludeen, its like me saying,

"Hey look at those young boys dancing in Kandahar", does opposing such disgusting practices,make one Anti-Afghan, or insulting Afghanistan, when its widely accepted practice by some of the worst vermin and social rejects?

Jamaludeen, try to be a bit more useful, you try and prove to me a "Al Buraq" existed, a flying mule with a womans head, was truthful, instead of wasting my time answering such a deluded question.

I am not Anti-Afghan, I wish not to follow any god, because when you follow a God, you become part of a organisation that feeds you non sense and turns you into a zombie.

Its like saying Suicide bombing founded by Siraj Haqqani of Afghanistan, is part of Afghan culture?

Al Hanif
11-15-2011, 10:15 AM
I'll answer this question as logically as possible. Can Arkhii Jamaludeen show me where on the Afghan Anthem does it say "Afghanistan is the land of Taliban, should be ruled by Sharia, stone women and young girls to death, and Hamid gul is our king"?????

Jamaludeen, would singing the national anthem with a rabab mean its un-Afghan? when infact the Rabab is unislamic and there are 1000s of Islamic text books that prohibit the use of musical instruments, with the drum being the only one permitted.

The Attan is a pagan dance, would doing Attan be classed as Un-Afghan, since its origins are unislamic?

Jamal, what about the Burqa? its an pagan arab dress code, does opposing it mean you are un Afghan?

I hope that helps.


If not, I will explain, an anthem can be reworded, changed, added, alterred and removed, just because the Afghan National Anthem mentions god, does not mean we should all follow the god of Arabia, or the god of Jerusalem.

I think this is a very crude attempt to attack someone, Jamaludeen, its like me saying,

"Hey look at those young boys dancing in Kandahar", does opposing such disgusting practices,make one Anti-Afghan, or insulting Afghanistan, when its widely accepted practice by some of the worst vermin and social rejects?

Jamaludeen, try to be a bit more useful, you try and prove to me a "Al Buraq" existed, a flying mule with a womans head, was truthful, instead of wasting my time answering such a deluded question.

I am not Anti-Afghan, I wish not to follow any god, because when you follow a God, you become part of a organisation that feeds you non sense and turns you into a zombie.

Its like saying Suicide bombing founded by Siraj Haqqani of Afghanistan, is part of Afghan culture?

You did not answer the question.

Soldat_Amir
11-15-2011, 10:26 AM
You did not answer the question.

I guess you can not read.

He was saying, that how can you be godless and call yourself an Afghan, when god's name is mentioned in the Afghan National Anthem.

I can say the exact same in relation to Afghan customs such as playing the Rabab and doing attan, both are unislamic and pagan by origin.

Does that mean they are not Afghan?

A National Anthem, can be changed and alterred.

Using the Afghan National Anthem to some how emotional blackmail me into following Wahabism is illogical and plain stupid.

As a matter of fact, if God really cared for Afghanistan, he would have never punished Afghanistan as badly as he has done.

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 10:37 AM
I'll answer this question as logically as possible. Can Arkhii Jamaludeen show me where on the Afghan Anthem does it say "Afghanistan is the land of Taliban, should be ruled by Sharia, stone women and young girls to death, and Hamid gul is our king"?????

Irrelavent, make a seperate thread for this. Just because i am asking you a genuine question, you are assuming that i support the taliban....when did i say.. Stone Women? and I have spoken against Hamid Gul before... you can find it in a thread.

Jamaludeen, would singing the national anthem with a rabab mean its un-Afghan? when infact the Rabab is unislamic and there are 1000s of Islamic text books that prohibit the use of musical instruments, with the drum being the only one permitted.

Make a seperate thread for this to be discussed as it is irrelevant to this topic

The Attan is a pagan dance, would doing Attan be classed as Un-Afghan, since its origins are unislamic?

Irrelavent, there is already a seperate thread for this.

Jamal, what about the Burqa? its an pagan arab dress code, does opposing it mean you are un Afghan?

Again, unrelated... make a seperate thread for it to be discussed.

I hope that helps.


If not, I will explain, an anthem can be reworded, changed, added, alterred and removed, just because the Afghan National Anthem mentions god, does not mean we should all follow the god of Arabia, or the god of Jerusalem.

In the national Anthem, Allahu Akbar is repeated many times. So it is referring to Allah swt.


I think this is a very crude attempt to attack someone, Jamaludeen, its like me saying,

I am not attacking you man, you always question people and we give you honest answers...you are being intellectually dishonest right now by .. pulling ad hominems and straw man

"Hey look at those young boys dancing in Kandahar", does opposing such disgusting practices,make one Anti-Afghan, or insulting Afghanistan, when its widely accepted practice by some of the worst vermin and social rejects?

Jamaludeen, try to be a bit more useful, you try and prove to me a "Al Buraq" existed, a flying mule with a womans head, was truthful, instead of wasting my time answering such a deluded question.

I am not Anti-Afghan, I wish not to follow any god, because when you follow a God, you become part of a organisation that feeds you non sense and turns you into a zombie.

Its like saying Suicide bombing founded by Siraj Haqqani of Afghanistan, is part of Afghan culture?


The rest is all a rant, please answer my question.. instead of pullin ad hominems and straw man...fallacies.. I'm not interested in what the taliban did, or the russians or the USA did.. I want you to honestly answer my question..

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 10:42 AM
If you haven't understood my question, please do not hesitate to ask me to rephrase it for you....I have tried simplifying it for you fellas... just so you don't get confused...but hey i am a human being and i am not perfect.

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 10:43 AM
I guess you can not read.

He was saying, that how can you be godless and call yourself an Afghan, when god's name is mentioned in the Afghan National Anthem.

I can say the exact same in relation to Afghan customs such as playing the Rabab and doing attan, both are unislamic and pagan by origin.

Does that mean they are not Afghan?

A National Anthem, can be changed and alterred.

Using the Afghan National Anthem to some how emotional blackmail me into following Wahabism is illogical and plain stupid.

As a matter of fact, if God really cared for Afghanistan, he would have never punished Afghanistan as badly as he has done.


How does this answer my question? You somehow seem very angry as you cannot answer my question....and you are mixing all these irrelavant topics into this topic in order to save a face.

Al Hanif
11-15-2011, 10:46 AM
I guess you can not read.

He was saying, that how can you be godless and call yourself an Afghan, when god's name is mentioned in the Afghan National Anthem.

I can say the exact same in relation to Afghan customs such as playing the Rabab and doing attan, both are unislamic and pagan by origin.

Does that mean they are not Afghan?

A National Anthem, can be changed and alterred.

Using the Afghan National Anthem to some how emotional blackmail me into following Wahabism is illogical and plain stupid.

As a matter of fact, if God really cared for Afghanistan, he would have never punished Afghanistan as badly as he has done.

So I can be Afghan too ? This anthem talking about non-Berber ethnicities is stupid ? It can be changed and altered as you said. What about Saudis and Punjabis, they can be Afghans too ?

LAWL XOXO ROFLMAO OMG WTF

Have you ever seen a mujahideen being sad when he got shot or before martyrdom ? No, they are always cheering each others. They are smiling and joking.

On the other hand, the non-believers who are scared of death are always sad. The veterans are killing themselves because of psychological issues. There are more US soldiers killed by suicide than killed in action.

Allah SWT has punished the disbelievers like Daud Daud, Wali Karzai, Ghulam Haidar Hameedi and many others. He protected Mollah Omar.

The mujahideens choosed themselves to be killed in action. That was their goal and they will go to Jannah insha'Allah.

A true believer doesn't care about death or material convenience. He is thankful to what Allah SWT gave him and he knows that it's better to live in Kandahar and go to Paradise than living in Vegas and going to hell where you will end.

Afghanistan is in this situation because of traitors like you but now victory will come and the Talibans will not do the same error they did the first time. There will be no concessions.

Maiwand
11-15-2011, 10:58 AM
The Prophet Muĥammad expressed disapproval when he heard a Persian youth
extolling his ancestry in the battlefield. `Abd al-Raĥmān ibn Abī `Uqbah reported
that his father, a Persian ‘ally’ of the Anşār, relates that he took part with the Prophet
in the Battle of Uĥud. “As I struck an unbeliever, I shouted, ‘Take it from me; I, a
Persian youth!’ The Prophet turned to me and said, ‘Would it not have been better
for you to say, I, the Anşārī youth. The nephew and the ally of any group of people
belong to them.’“ [Related by Abū Dāwūd]

Soldat_Amir
11-15-2011, 12:00 PM
The Prophet Muĥammad expressed disapproval when he heard a Persian youth
extolling his ancestry in the battlefield. `Abd al-Raĥmān ibn Abī `Uqbah reported
that his father, a Persian ‘ally’ of the Anşār, relates that he took part with the Prophet
in the Battle of Uĥud. “As I struck an unbeliever, I shouted, ‘Take it from me; I, a
Persian youth!’ The Prophet turned to me and said, ‘Would it not have been better
for you to say, I, the Anşārī youth. The nephew and the ally of any group of people
belong to them.’“ [Related by Abū Dāwūd]

Then why was you just a mintue ago saying you would be proud to be genetically related to Bani israel.

"Maybe it will have something to do with Bani Israel, I would feel proud if it can be proven genetically that we Pashtuns are the descendants of those prophets of Bani Israel "

http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun-history-8/afghan-pashtun-dna-posted-soon-20548/index17.html

This is the thing, people like Maiwand, will oppose Pashtuns who are proud of their ancestry and roots, but support it if its got something to do with Arabs and Jews and other Ambrahmic lunatics from the middle east.

Why this hypocrasy?

Another thing I would like to point out.

We as secularists do not oppose people following god, what we do oppose is sectarism and segregation due to relgion by the masses. We support peoples right to follow a god, but refuse to accept being seen as "dhimmis" and forced to pay a Jizya tax and wear a badge to make us look different from the population.

We do not oppose Islam, rest assured, we just oppose any violent form of bigotry in the name of God, that includes Christians and Jews too.

Insaaf_انصاف
11-15-2011, 12:39 PM
This is the thing, people like Maiwand, will oppose Pashtuns who are proud of their ancestry and roots, but support it if its got something to do with Arabs and Jews and other Ambrahmic lunatics from the middle east.



What are our true origins ?
I want to know, europeans are our ancestors ?
Persian / Indians are our ancestors
Please reply, i want to know the truth...

Badlun
11-15-2011, 02:13 PM
In the nine lines of this anthem only the last line mentions Allah and that too in the religious or emotional/spiritual sense. All other lines are about Afghan nationalism, Afghan land, Afghan tribes and the international importance of Afghanistan as the heart of Asia.

The mention of God is like a slogan. Its like in the secular USA when they say we trust in God. Its all symbolic, emotional and spiritual nothing to do with Sharia, system of Taliban or promulgation of the so called Islamic laws. Afghan nationalism is the dominant theme of the anthem and not any Pan Islamism , Salafism, wahabism or Talibanism.

Islam as a religion to believe in God is not at all a problem but as mentioned by Soldat Amir , its imposition on others as Taliban did is the real issue. No problem with beliefs, worship and religious ethics but issues with political, economic, cultural , legal and social Islam.

Soldat_Amir
11-15-2011, 02:16 PM
What are our true origins ?
I want to know, europeans are our ancestors ?
Persian / Indians are our ancestors
Please reply, i want to know the truth...

Go read a book on Afghan history.

Soldat_Amir
11-15-2011, 02:20 PM
In the nine lines of this anthem only the last line mentions Allah and that too in the religious or emotional/spiritual sense. All other lines are about Afghan nationalism, Afghan land, Afghan tribes and the international importance of Afghanistan as the heart of Asia.

The mention of God is like a slogan. Its like in the secular USA when they say we trust in God. Its all symbolic, emotional and spiritual nothing to do with Sharia, system of Taliban or promulgation of the so called Islamic laws. Afghan nationalism is the dominant theme of the anthem and not any Pan Islamism , Salafism, wahabism or Talibanism.

Islam as a religion to believe in God is not at all a problem but as mentioned by Soldat Amir , its imposition on others as Taliban did is the real issue. No problem with beliefs, worship and religious ethics but issues with political, economic, cultural , legal and social Islam.

Thank you Osho. Nicely put.

America uses God, but its society is progressive and well developed.

Plus most Americans are not radical evangelicals, just like how most Afghan Muslims are not Talibs.

Badlun
11-15-2011, 02:43 PM
The anthem is so profound and so far reaching in its meaning and connotations that it does not mention Islam, Muslims, Sharia, Mazhab or any other pure Islamic or religious term but just one God and the slogan God is great because Afghanistan is also for non Muslims and there can be non Muslim Afghans as Hindus or Sikhs or even Christians. The concept of God is shared amongst Muslims and non Muslims.

Even atheist can have their God in the shape of nature, state, matter, energy, science etc and these are great for them as the religious God is great.

Michin Khel
11-15-2011, 04:27 PM
In anthem even gujjars (punjabis) are mentioned which is surprising.

akbarkhan
11-15-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm still waiting for Soldat Amir and LZ's response..

You don't need to wait. Let me tell you...

They will simply replace "God" with Lenin, Marx and Engels - taking turns of course.

Alchemist
11-15-2011, 06:37 PM
You know what soldout khamir?


you sound like a broken record to me " Stoning...women...sharia ...music banned"..blah blah. You want a discotheque in Kabul? It's there. Stop whining. And yeah..you can even get your self some wine too when you are down there.


More importantly...its 2012 almost...16 years after the first mention of Taliban back in 1996. So that means, the 30 year old talib commander is now 46 years old...the 20 year old talib is now 36 years old. But you know ...the front line soldier is a 20 year old that back then was only 4 years old. And this 20 year old will be the next commander 10 years from now so he'll be 36 by 2022....AND STILL fighting against NATO. What are you gonna do then? Still chant the same mantra? ...."Oh taliban...sharia....woman ...stoning... oh no ...music ..." ..stfu!

badmash_khel
11-15-2011, 06:39 PM
^

lol, that khamir word made me spill my tea. damn it.

Haris
11-15-2011, 07:08 PM
Well, one point to note is that Afghanistan is, in its current state atleast, an 'Islami Jamhooriyat' (although I guess it's legitimacy in this regard is debateable).

It is stressed in the constitution and even on the flag, above the emblem, it is written 'la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah'

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Afghanistan.svg/225px-Flag_of_Afghanistan.svg.png


Certainly the Islamic charactersitcs and nature of the Afghans cannot simply be whitewashed away, even the Americans recognised this when Karzai's transitional government was formed.



My conclusion is that most Atheists prefer a Pashtunistan anyway, a new state with a new constitution, new flag and perhaps a new anthem.
Although they can speak for themselves, i'm sure.

JAMALUDEEN
11-15-2011, 08:12 PM
The anthem is so profound and so far reaching in its meaning and connotations that it does not mention Islam, Muslims, Sharia, Mazhab or any other pure Islamic or religious term but just one God and the slogan God is great because Afghanistan is also for non Muslims and there can be non Muslim Afghans as Hindus or Sikhs or even Christians. The concept of God is shared amongst Muslims and non Muslims.

Even atheist can have their God in the shape of nature, state, matter, energy, science etc and these are great for them as the religious God is great.

"This land is Afghanistan – It is the pride of every Afghan
The land of peace, the land of the sword – Its sons are all brave
This is the country of every tribe – Land of Baluch, and Uzbeks
Pashtoons, and Hazaras – Turkman and Tajiks with them,
Arabs and Gojars, Pamirian, Nooristanis
Barahawi, and Qizilbash – Also Aimaq, and Pashaye
This Land will shine for ever – Like the sun in the blue sky
In the chest of Asia – It will remain as the heart for ever
We will follow the one God – We all say, Allah is great, we all say, Allah is great "

Every pashtun tribe and ethnic group in Afghanistan has a religious connection to islam, and this is all reiterated in the last verse, that the people of Afghanistan follow the one "God", and then it repeats.. Wayu Allahu Akbar.. Wayu Allahu Akbar.. It doesn't say.... We all say.. Nature is great or we all say.. Nature is great.. or we all say.. GOds are great..we all say Gods are great

This unites all Afghans under the banner of Islam. It doesn't even mention hindus, sikhs, atheists..for that matter. Hindus cannot relate to Allah as well, Sikhs cannot relate to Allah either.... their beliefs are way different. How can you relate to Afghanistan, if you cannot even understand the verse properly, while you know so much about the US national anthem.

So answer me, how do you guys relate to Afghanistan and the national Anthem? It is crystal clear that you guys reject God and religion... so when you say, we follow the one God, and that Allah is great.. and you don't obviously mean it.. Then you are being dishonest.... to the people of Afghanistan and most importantly muslims.. and what they represent.

Please guys, answer the question as it is, and do not troll away the topic into stuff that is irrelevant. I don't care about the national anthem of the US or India...or what the taliban did..or did not do...

Levanaye Zalmaye
11-17-2011, 09:04 PM
Sweden and Denmark and mostly atheist/agnostic yet their flags show crosses. So are those atheist Danes and Swedes bad citizens? Or do they hate being Swedish and Denmark because their flags have crosses on them?

The flag of the UK has two crosses on it (St. George's and St. Andrew's) and its head of state is also the leader of its official church - which would make the UK, technically speaking, a theocracy. And yet, the pioneer in modern skepticism and rationalism is the UK (England, specifically speaking).

My point is that religion was, is and will be (for the foreseeable future) a part of every nation's and tribe's identity and culture. In fact, what many of us do not know is that some very everyday phrases of the English language actually come from the Bible.

It is my belief, however, that as time progresses, atheism or non-belief will become the norm and will be replaced by a rational and scientific understanding and explanation of the world. And then nations and tribes will look back at their monotheistic days just as we monotheists currently look back at our pagan pantheist days.

The mention of God, or gods, in a song, hymn, poem or national anthem only adds to their wonder and doesn't take away from it. If one wants to nitpick, he/she may stop enjoying Ghani Khan, Khushal Khan, Hamza Baba, Rahman Baba and all the other great Pashto poets because they mention God in their poetry. In fact, I would personally stop reading George R. Martin and Tolkein ,too, if I had issues with God/gods because both these authors mention gods and supernatural beings in their books.

Alchemist
11-17-2011, 09:53 PM
^ The swedish and danish flag have crosses in them, but their state constitution, their institutions and their culture is mainly irreligious. Crosses are pagan symbols...but that is besides the point.l

The question posed was that ...in Afghanistan, you atheists would be hung to death for being the apostates that you are. For Afghanistan you are dead and disowned.

Sure there are more atheists in sweden and denmark, but not in Afghanistan.

And who cares what poets say when the most recited book in Afghanistan is the Qur'an....Surely europe has lost its masculinity and even religion, but what happens in europe won't necessarily happen in Afghanistan.

The OP asks on where your allegiance lies. The common Afghan believes in Allah...and the phrase "Allah u Akbar" means that Allah is greater than any other thing which you are attached to...be it even the land of Afghanistan. So when you deny this aspect of Afghan nationalism, you are in effect "disrespecting" the nation...don't you think?

BarakzaiAbdali
11-17-2011, 10:45 PM
^ The swedish and danish flag have crosses in them, but their state constitution, their institutions and their culture is mainly irreligious. Crosses are pagan symbols...but that is besides the point.l

The question posed was that ...in Afghanistan, you atheists would be hung to death for being the apostates that you are. For Afghanistan you are dead and disowned.

Sure there are more atheists in sweden and denmark, but not in Afghanistan.

And who cares what poets say when the most recited book in Afghanistan is the Qur'an....Surely europe has lost its masculinity and even religion, but what happens in europe won't necessarily happen in Afghanistan.

The OP asks on where your allegiance lies. The common Afghan believes in Allah...and the phrase "Allah u Akbar" means that Allah is greater than any other thing which you are attached to...be it even the land of Afghanistan. So when you deny this aspect of Afghan nationalism, you are in effect "disrespecting" the nation...don't you think?

You speak the truth. Never lose hope. Islam rises again and again. Its bigger than Muhammad Omar or any movement. Even if they killed off all of us and created a world of Afghans of secular leanings and atheism, in their own sons God would reveal himself again and one of their children would pick up the Quran and turn towards it. When the Mongol hordes raided Baghdad and made the masjidoona into stables for their horses and when the Russians invaded Uzbekistan and Tajikistan and wrote "There is no deity and Lenin is the prophet" they even failed to erase Islam from existence.

Now the sons of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan retain their Islam against this onslaught.

God protects Islam and even if all 1/5 of the world's population of Muslims were holocausted, it would reappear and rise again.

Contrary to what LZ says, the deeper we study and more we see the beauty of this world and its order and the more science pervades our minds the closer we turn to our creator.

I relish this onslaught and know that it is a cleansing process. Let them assault Islam from every angle, intellectual, physical, monetary, and otherwise and even still it will rise up again.

Al Hanif
11-18-2011, 06:13 AM
It is my belief, however, that as time progresses, atheism or non-belief will become the norm and will be replaced by a rational and scientific understanding and explanation of the world. And then nations and tribes will look back at their monotheistic days just as we monotheists currently look back at our pagan pantheist days.

It is your belief.

My belief is that Islam is very far from dying. 14 centuries after the end of the revelation, Islam is still shining and religions in their political form are still the main factor which controls international relations (Jews by Zionism and Muslims by Islamism litterally rule the world).

You might think that Europe came to atheism because it is more rational, more accurate to scientific knowledge. It is your belief. My belief is that they actually came closer to Islam.

They went from Trinity to half of the truth = half of the Shahada = La ilaha = There is no god

Remember that Judaism is much older than Islam and is currently reaching it's peak.

Millions of Muslims in the street to pray: Ramadhan 2010; Alexandria (Egypt) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f19QjJN6fk)

Amir al Ghaznavi
11-20-2011, 03:12 AM
this is a ridicolous thread.

it doesnt matter what i believe, or what some random poster on this site thinks, my daddy was a kakar, his daddy was a kakar, and his daddy was a kakar, and so im a kakar pakhtun

facts is facts, jack. beliefs come and go, passports change, addresses change, blood is forever

JAMALUDEEN
11-27-2011, 01:41 AM
this is a ridicolous thread.

it doesnt matter what i believe, or what some random poster on this site thinks, my daddy was a kakar, his daddy was a kakar, and his daddy was a kakar, and so im a kakar pakhtun

facts is facts, jack. beliefs come and go, passports change, addresses change, blood is forever

mr nwa...

answer the question......

JAMALUDEEN
11-27-2011, 01:53 AM
Sweden and Denmark and mostly atheist/agnostic yet their flags show crosses. So are those atheist Danes and Swedes bad citizens? Or do they hate being Swedish and Denmark because their flags have crosses on them?

The flag of the UK has two crosses on it (St. George's and St. Andrew's) and its head of state is also the leader of its official church - which would make the UK, technically speaking, a theocracy. And yet, the pioneer in modern skepticism and rationalism is the UK (England, specifically speaking).

My point is that religion was, is and will be (for the foreseeable future) a part of every nation's and tribe's identity and culture. In fact, what many of us do not know is that some very everyday phrases of the English language actually come from the Bible.

It is my belief, however, that as time progresses, atheism or non-belief will become the norm and will be replaced by a rational and scientific understanding and explanation of the world. And then nations and tribes will look back at their monotheistic days just as we monotheists currently look back at our pagan pantheist days.

The mention of God, or gods, in a song, hymn, poem or national anthem only adds to their wonder and doesn't take away from it. If one wants to nitpick, he/she may stop enjoying Ghani Khan, Khushal Khan, Hamza Baba, Rahman Baba and all the other great Pashto poets because they mention God in their poetry. In fact, I would personally stop reading George R. Martin and Tolkein ,too, if I had issues with God/gods because both these authors mention gods and supernatural beings in their books.


How is sweden and Denmark related to Afghanistan? Our cultures, values and set of beliefs are way different than theirs... Just because the people from those countries deviated from their religion and beliefs..doesn't mean the same will happen in Afghanistan. If the people of Afghanistan wanted change..such is the change brought by the invaders? The people would have deviated away from their beliefs .. long time ago.

Amir al Ghaznavi
11-27-2011, 02:03 AM
mr nwa...

answer the question......

What was the question lol, i forget

Anyways its a moot point if i go back home im growing the beard and dusting off the old sura yasin

JAMALUDEEN
12-03-2011, 07:13 AM
I'm surprised at how quiet the atheists are.. in regard to this.

graveyardofempires
12-03-2011, 07:20 AM
Afghan anthem or flag does not represent atheists.
event he Afghan government is an Islamic republic and partly runned by sharia.

graveyardofempires
12-03-2011, 05:50 PM
Czech Scientist Woman Converted to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dh1LoB_vsE&feature=related)
American University Professor Converted to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay2jkJQ7Avk&feature=related)
U.S.A jet aircraft engineer converted to Islam in 2010 1 28 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJv99_mzh8&feature=related)
U.S.A jet aircraft engineer converted to Islam in 2010 1 28 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJv99_mzh8&feature=related)
Hamza young american convert to islam crying when performing hajj - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Le-bkMevLw&feature=related)
Jesus told me 2 convert 2 Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrz2X9AcDEg&feature=related)
My last day as a christian (Justin) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ImCcba1EdQ&feature=related)
Reverts to islam New Muslim sister takes Shahada 2011 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCdBHlk_SSw&feature=related)

Alchemist
12-03-2011, 07:26 PM
post some videos of atheists converting to Islam ...if you really wanna grind his gears..

graveyardofempires
12-03-2011, 07:37 PM
Dr. Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism To Islam 1/4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcNOaePZT68)
Sis. Margaret Templeton (Maryam Noor) From Atheist to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xb1x9UP2lI&feature=related)
From Atheism To Islam - OMAR DEXTER - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCqaYQxK_q8&feature=related)
From Atheism to Islam (part 1)..A Must See!!! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1CHw5q7oWA&feature=related)
Renowned Cardiologist Accepts Islam (Part 1) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJFoOWiJYg8&feature=related)
An Atheist Converts to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JW5x_GPsXc)
Dr. Ian Weber from UK converts to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA3wcKYcTfw)
a science student converted to islam in canada - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cJNEKtLF8)
European Scientist converts to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY&feature=related)
German scientist and his wife converted to Islam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Fik8H4IOQ&feature=related)

is this enough

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 01:35 AM
who cares nigga, every day athiests become muslims, muslims become christians, christians become buddhists

so what nicca

is this supposed to prove the superiority of your faith?

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 01:42 AM
I'm surprised at how quiet the atheists are.. in regard to this.

nigga i dont give a FUKK what some loser decrees what "afghan" should mean

Daddy was Pakhtun, Daddys Daddy was a Pakhtun, end of story

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 05:18 AM
nigga i dont give a FUKK what some loser decrees what "afghan" should mean

Daddy was Pakhtun, Daddys Daddy was a Pakhtun, end of story

Was your daddy also NWA (I'm sure he was not)? Because being an NWA is very unafghan as well.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 08:04 AM
who cares nigga, every day athiests become muslims, muslims become christians, christians become buddhists

so what nicca

is this supposed to prove the superiority of your faith?
what the hell are you talking about?you are not ozy so why come here start talkign crap.
a question for you : d you think your elders were idiots by being muslims?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 08:11 AM
^ The swedish and danish flag have crosses in them, but their state constitution, their institutions and their culture is mainly irreligious. Crosses are pagan symbols...but that is besides the point.l

The question posed was that ...in Afghanistan, you atheists would be hung to death for being the apostates that you are. For Afghanistan you are dead and disowned.

Sure there are more atheists in sweden and denmark, but not in Afghanistan.

And who cares what poets say when the most recited book in Afghanistan is the Qur'an....Surely europe has lost its masculinity and even religion, but what happens in europe won't necessarily happen in Afghanistan.

The OP asks on where your allegiance lies. The common Afghan believes in Allah...and the phrase "Allah u Akbar" means that Allah is greater than any other thing which you are attached to...be it even the land of Afghanistan. So when you deny this aspect of Afghan nationalism, you are in effect "disrespecting" the nation...don't you think?

How will my personal beliefs disrespect anyone? After all, even within Muslims, there are so many divisions as to the very nature of Allah. Some say He has a physical form and others say He is everywhere and is hence formless. They both make takfir upon one another at every opportunity. I do not see how one's beliefs can disrespect anyone else. People should be free to have their own beliefs. What sort of a world would it be where we force people to believe as we do on pain of death?

This might be too much for some members of Pashtun Forums to grasp but for me, a person's beliefs are of very little consequence. Since the dawn of man, we have sought answers to questions regarding our existence and the purpose of our lives and many different belief systems have spawned as a result. Religion, to me, is a personal matter and I have no problems with atheists, agnostics, practicing Muslims, people who are Muslim by name, zealots, etc. A person's beliefs are as of as much importance to me as the colour of their skin.



You speak the truth. Never lose hope. Islam rises again and again. Its bigger than Muhammad Omar or any movement. Even if they killed off all of us and created a world of Afghans of secular leanings and atheism, in their own sons God would reveal himself again and one of their children would pick up the Quran and turn towards it. When the Mongol hordes raided Baghdad and made the masjidoona into stables for their horses and when the Russians invaded Uzbekistan and Tajikistan and wrote "There is no deity and Lenin is the prophet" they even failed to erase Islam from existence.

Now the sons of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan retain their Islam against this onslaught.

God protects Islam and even if all 1/5 of the world's population of Muslims were holocausted, it would reappear and rise again.

Contrary to what LZ says, the deeper we study and more we see the beauty of this world and its order and the more science pervades our minds the closer we turn to our creator.

I relish this onslaught and know that it is a cleansing process. Let them assault Islam from every angle, intellectual, physical, monetary, and otherwise and even still it will rise up again.


I don't have anything against Islam, nor do I wish that it ends or is "defeated". As far as matters of belief are concerned, I'm completely indifferent - that is my position on the subject. I care not who people worship because they choose to believe what they do and they are entitled to their beliefs. I do not identify people with regards to their beliefs in deities but I do so with regards to their nations.




My belief is that Islam is very far from dying. 14 centuries after the end of the revelation, Islam is still shining and religions in their political form are still the main factor which controls international relations (Jews by Zionism and Muslims by Islamism litterally rule the world).

You might think that Europe came to atheism because it is more rational, more accurate to scientific knowledge. It is your belief. My belief is that they actually came closer to Islam.

They went from Trinity to half of the truth = half of the Shahada = La ilaha = There is no god

Remember that Judaism is much older than Islam and is currently reaching it's peak.


Like I mentioned earlier, it is my belief that religion will eventually be replaced by a scientific understanding of the world but I never said that it should be that way nor did I say that I want it to be that way. I am simply apathetic to its fate. I might very well be wrong and hence I carefully mentioned that it was just my opinion, which could very well be the opposite of the truth.



Afghan anthem or flag does not represent atheists.
event he Afghan government is an Islamic republic and partly runned by sharia.

Atheism is a theological and philosophical matter and it has no link with an individual and his feelings towards or relationship with his nation or state.

In fact, throughout history, the most ardent nationalists have always been, at the very least, apathetic to theological considerations.




How is sweden and Denmark related to Afghanistan? Our cultures, values and set of beliefs are way different than theirs... Just because the people from those countries deviated from their religion and beliefs..doesn't mean the same will happen in Afghanistan. If the people of Afghanistan wanted change..such is the change brought by the invaders? The people would have deviated away from their beliefs .. long time ago.

There are and there have been patriotic religious Afghans, patriotic Afghans who believe in secular democracy, patriotic Afghans who believe in Marxism, patriotic Afghans who believe in monarchy, patriotic Afghans who prefer the jirga system over a centralized government, etc, etc. Should we pick and choose who love their country the most?

In my opinion, a person's religion is his or her private matter. It does not make them any less Pushtun than anyone else. There is a lot of difference between culture and beliefs.

After all, if we follow your theory that Pashtun = Muslim, then we have to believe that before ~1000AD and Mahmud of Ghazni, there were no Pashtuns on the face of the earth.

So to answer your question very briefly, it makes no difference to me whatsoever whether the Afghan national anthem mentions Allah or the deity of any other religion nor does it make an iota of difference to me whether Afghans are Muslims or atheists.

No che ta da Afghanano pa zhabay pohegay no pa dwanrro ghwaguno wawra che ze da har yare na beghair wayalay shama che sumra meena ao mohabbat che ze laram ao Maseed lari da pukhto ao da pukhtano ao da haghoi da watan khowray sara, ta cherta ham da haghe lasama barkha nashay laralay.

Ze che kum qadar kawum da khpal watan, ze ye hich chaa ta da sabitawalo dapara mazur neyam. Ao khafgan kho da day khabaray day che staso ghwanday khalak sok che da kharjiano pa hewaduno ke warsara pa qalar wosegai dalta da day khowray khalko banday tor lagawai che staso daa ao staso haghaa..

Bachai, ta ba sa pohegay che da qaam meena sa shi ta wayi? Che bal ta guta nisay, salor gutay berta zaan ta wi. Che lag loy shay no pakhpala ba poye shay.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 08:18 AM
^
loserssssss
trying their best to be accept as Afghans but have no characteristics.

the point is that Afghanistan doesnt represent you and when you are to stand and sing the national anthem as a patriot you will have to say Allah u Akbar evne though it says nothing about you.

the same for the flag LA ILAHA ILA ALLAH MUHAMADU RASUL ALLAH and under that ALLAHU AKBAR the rest of emblem shows inside of a mosque.
so much for your nationalistic dreams.
http://idata.over-blog.com/4/10/42/52/afghanistan-flag.gif

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 08:27 AM
who cares nigga, every day athiests become muslims, muslims become christians, christians become buddhists

so what nicca

is this supposed to prove the superiority of your faith?


That's obviously not true.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe.

In fact, by 2025, at least 25% of Europe will be Muslim. I saw that on a YouTube video that was uploaded by someone from Stormfront or the BNP or something. But it's true!!


In any case, I will speak on behalf on Ozymandias here because he is apparently busy beheading people or stoning people to death or doing the other crazy stuff that atheists do.. hehe..

Yeah, in the West, these conversions are possible because there is freedom of religion. However, in the sorts of theocracies that Alchemist, graveyard and others envision, religious conversions will result in people being beheaded. So that's the difference. Thanks for the thread.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 08:36 AM
^
loserssssss
trying their best to be accept as Afghans but have no characteristics.

Culture does not equal beliefs. Language and way of life does.

the point is that Afghanistan doesnt represent you and when you are to stand and sing the national anthem as a patriot you will have to say Allah u Akbar evne though it says nothing about you.


I say Assalamoeleikum to a whole bunch of people everyday upon whom I actually wish everything but peace lol... And I've lived my entire childhood singing "Paak saarrr Zameeeeeen shaaaad baaaaaad" lol and trust me, it didn't have its intended effect. I also visit the mosque on Akhtar and on certain Fridays and I don't feel bad about praying at all. Again, this might shock you but I cannot explain to you how indifferent I am to people's beliefs in astral deities.


the same for the flag LA ILAHA ILA ALLAH MUHAMADU RASUL ALLAH and under that ALLAHU AKBAR the rest of emblem shows inside of a mosque.
so much for your nationalistic dreams.


Thanks for raiding this and this takes me back to my original point that the flag of the UK carries two crosses and not one yet most people who salute it and die for it are either non-religious or completely indifferent to deities and their commands.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 08:39 AM
you are not ozymandis so piss off with your anti muslim rant.

How do such an aggressive attitude and the use of such abusive language fit in with your Islamic values of patience and modesty? Are you really a Muslim?

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Culture does not equal beliefs. Language and way of life does.

stop deluding yourself


I say Assalamoeleikum to a whole bunch of people everyday upon whom I actually wish everything but peace lol... And I've lived my entire childhood singing "Paak saarrr Zameeeeeen shaaaad baaaaaad" lol and trust me, it didn't have its intended effect. I also visit the mosque on Akhtar and on certain Fridays and I don't feel bad about praying at all. Again, this might shock you but I cannot explain to you how indifferent I am to people's beliefs in astral deities.
they will still not accept you,and this shows how you are two faced for one talking trash about people and try to demonise them and for other you go and act different when aroudn them.





Thanks for raiding this and this takes me back to my original point that the flag of the UK carries two crosses and not one yet most people who salute it and die for it are either non-religious or completely indifferent to deities and their commands.
The cross is not symbol of christianity and it doesnt say anything abotu a religion.It is also the cross of saint george not your typical os called christian cross.
The Afghan flag has the tetimony of faith on it along with Allahu Akbar and a mosque and you are trying to compare ti to the "not so sure" british flag.

Desperate much hey?

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 08:44 AM
How do such an aggressive attitude and the use of such abusive language fit in with your Islamic values of patience and modesty? Are you really a Muslim?
why does it even matter to someone as deluded as you?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 08:56 AM
why does it even matter to someone as deluded as you?

I'm just saying...

I've observed that Alchemist, yourself, unknownprince and other self-proclaimed Muslims use the most foul language on these forums and most of you are always very aggressive and angry all the time.

From what I know, Islam teaches sabr (patience) and the use of harsh language is also discouraged. I find here on PF that the most ardent fighters for the sake of Islam are the ones who most often go against its very basic teachings.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 08:59 AM
I'm just saying...

I've observed that Alchemist, yourself, unknownprince and other self-proclaimed Muslims use the most foul language on these forums and most of you are always very aggressive and angry all the time.

From what I know, Islam teaches sabr (patience) and the use of harsh language is also discouraged. I find here on PF that the most ardent fighters for the sake of Islam are the ones who most often go against its very basic teachings.
wow now a sor kapir will teach us about Islam.
if you abuse our religion than expect nothing in return.

os wrek sha i wasnt talking to you,do you lack attention or something?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:03 AM
wow now a sor kapir will teach us about Islam.
if you abuse our religion than expect nothing in return.

os wrek sha i wasnt talking to you,do you lack attention or something?

I know more about Islam than you. When you go against its principles, I should, as a favor to you, remind you to get back on the straight path.

I'm confused. When did I abuse anyone's religion?

Again, such harsh language. Why do you detest me? I can assure you, I do not have such hatred for you or anyone else.

emkhan
12-04-2011, 09:06 AM
I'm just saying...

I've observed that Alchemist, yourself, unknownprince and other self-proclaimed Muslims use the most foul language on these forums and most of you are always very aggressive and angry all the time.

From what I know, Islam teaches sabr (patience) and the use of harsh language is also discouraged. I find here on PF that the most ardent fighters for the sake of Islam are the ones who most often go against its very basic teachings.

OMG... a secularist is talking about Islam... what a day..
Secularists are the worst mouthed guys on this planet. They will start using abusive language as soon as they start losing their temper. But they will always use soft, respective and beautiful language for veena malik type people.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:07 AM
The cross is not symbol of christianity and it doesnt say anything abotu a religion.It is also the cross of saint george not your typical os called christian cross.
The Afghan flag has the tetimony of faith on it along with Allahu Akbar and a mosque and you are trying to compare ti to the "not so sure" british flag.

Desperate much hey?


Islam has no symbolical image that represents it and hence, the shahada is used as its representation in images. The crescent is, contrary to popular belief, a Turkish symbol and not an Islamic one.

And St.George's Cross, along with St.Andrew's Cross, the Orthodox Christian Cross, the Coptic Cross, the Gnostic Cross, St.Thomas' Cross and other crosses are symbols of Christianity and nothing else. There is no such thing as a "typical" Christian cross.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 09:10 AM
this is lewaney's tactic

Muslim Son and Dad fights Australian Cameraman - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EOrVZnThuM)

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:12 AM
OMG... a secularist is talking about Islam... what a day..
Secularists are the worst mouthed guys on this planet. They will start using abusive language as soon as they start losing their temper. But they will always use soft, respective and beautiful language for veena malik type people.


I couldn't care less how "secularists" talk. Why can't I talk about Islam? If Christians and atheists can write entire encyclopedias on Islam, can I not even speak about it?

In any case, I have observed here that some of the most outspoken Islamists on PF use the worst sort of language and do not fear using abuses and derogatory terms for others. Modesty and patience are the last two qualities that they show. If you don't believe me, I can post many examples for you. In fact, I have reported dozens of posts by your friends to the administrators many times and you can even ask them if you don't take my word for it.

emkhan
12-04-2011, 09:16 AM
I couldn't care less how "secularists" talk. Why can't I talk about Islam? If Christians and atheists can write entire encyclopedias on Islam, can I not even speak about it?

In any case, I have observed here that some of the most outspoken Islamists on PF use the worst sort of language and do not fear using abuses and derogatory terms for others. Modesty and patience are the last two qualities that they show. If you don't believe me, I can post many examples for you. In fact, I have reported dozens of posts by your friends to the administrators many times and you can even ask them if you don't take my word for it.

I know many here use very bad language... But your talking about Islam and trying to remind to us seems to me you are "da lastonri maar". In english I would translate it as "the snake in sleeve lol"

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 09:16 AM
^
you just love to the ignorance you are indulged in dont you ?

the cross is the symbol of Roman belief system and not the religion of christ.

your problem is you are deluding yourself into thinking that in Afghanistan your false idealogy will be accepted and that you will eb included int he Afghan /Pashtun identity.

the fact is yo will never be accepted among those people so the best option for you is to stay where ever you are for the rest of your pathetic life.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 09:20 AM
Emkhana wrora
i posted this thread for Ozymendis who somehow thought that peopel dont know evolution theory etc.
so i show him that there are tons of people who embrace Islam and explain why they did it and they were formerly atheists.

than comes this desperate attention seeker to provoke a reaction by saying that "beheading and stoning" to abuse Islam.
and later on he carry's on talking about what a person said about him personally while he thinks its ok for him to abuse Islam.

emkhan
12-04-2011, 09:25 AM
Emkhana wrora
i posted this thread for Ozymendis who somehow thought that peopel dont know evolution theory etc.
so i show him that there are tons of people who embrace Islam and explain why they did it and they were formerly atheists.

than comes this desperate attention seeker to provoke a reaction by saying that "beheading and stoning" to abuse Islam.
and later on he carry's on talking about what a person said about him personally while he thinks its ok for him to abuse Islam.

I know them and their intentions. They want to create doubt in our minds but inshallah it will never happen. He, toramana, soldat amir, comrade pashtun and some other guys here are on a mission. They receive orders from dajjaal and dajjaal is paying them show them some day dreams.
But we are the followers of the truth, inshallah we will get them down. and they will run away.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:25 AM
^
you just love to the ignorance you are indulged in dont you ?

the cross is the symbol of Roman belief system and not the religion of christ.


Are you suggesting that the cross is a symbol of the old Roman pagan belief system and not Christianity? And then I am supposed to be the ignorant one? Please check your facts, I think you've gotten a few things mixed up.


your problem is you are deluding yourself into thinking that in Afghanistan your false idealogy will be accepted and that you will eb included int he Afghan /Pashtun identity.

the fact is yo will never be accepted among those people so the best option for you is to stay where ever you are for the rest of your pathetic life.

Firstly, I do not impose my beliefs on others. So my religious beliefs, which you mistake as my "ideology", are my personal problem which bear no impact on those with whom I interact. Please try to understand that.

I am already a part of a Pashtun family and I have more Pashtun friends in real life than you have seen in whichever foreign land you are living in, thank you very much. And again, I do not "fear" being rejected from Pashtun soceity or the Pashtun identity, I'm already a part of one but thanks for your concern.

By the way, as an exercise meant to clear some confusion, can you please differentiate between personal beliefs and culture for me?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:30 AM
I know many here use very bad language... But your talking about Islam and trying to remind to us seems to me you are "da lastonri maar". In english I would translate it as "the snake in sleeve lol"

So only a practicing Muslim can understand Islam? Islam is, in fact, an easy religion to understand.

Hmm.. perhaps your image of "secularists" as being a different breed of humans is a bit too far-fetched.

For instance, when I was a kid, I was told that since Hindus do not purify themselves after using the toilet, they're literally dirty people. I used to believe that if I ever came across a Hindu (whatever creature that was), I would throw up. But then I grew up.

emkhan
12-04-2011, 09:38 AM
So only a practicing Muslim can understand Islam? Islam is, in fact, an easy religion to understand.

Hmm.. perhaps your image of "secularists" as being a different breed of humans is a bit too far-fetched.

For instance, when I was a kid, I was told that since Hindus do not purify themselves after using the toilet, they're literally dirty people. I used to believe that if I ever came across a Hindu (whatever creature that was), I would throw up. But then I grew up.

No, anyone can understand Islam if he has the ability to get the message. YOU, you know everything about Islam as you said. and still you deny the messages of God, it means that your heart has been stamped. muhr pe lagedalay dai.

I don't know about hindus don't purify themselves after using the toilet but I know one thing that there a smell coming out of their bodies ... why this is so ?
Secondly I was told here in England that some 70 years ago, these English people had no bath rooms in their houses. They used to take bath after months... and this is the truth... even now, these unbelievers take shower daily but still you can't stay beside him or her if your nose sensors are working. why is this so ?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 09:45 AM
No, anyone can understand Islam if he has the ability to get the message. YOU, you know everything about Islam as you said. and still you deny the messages of God, it means that your heart has been stamped. muhr pe lagedalay dai.


I believe that simply by virtue of being Muslim, many people can become good, upstanding individuals. At the same time, there are some who justify acts of great cruelty with their religion. Have their hearts been "stamped" as well? Or are people free to have their own beliefs?


I don't know about hindus don't purify themselves after using the toilet but I know one thing that there a smell coming out of their bodies ... why this is so ?
Secondly I was told here in England that some 70 years ago, these English people had no bath rooms in their houses. They used to take bath after months... and this is the truth... even now, these unbelievers take shower daily but still you can't stay beside him or her if your nose sensors are working. why is this so ?

Do you really believe that a person's personal beliefs have a direct link to the level of body odor that he/she emits? Like honesty, do you really believe that?

By the way, two of my Muslim friends, both of whom got educated in Madressas and are Hafiz-e-Quran, have terrible breath. How do you explain that? How do you think I should let them know without damaging our friendship?

emkhan
12-04-2011, 09:53 AM
I believe that simply by virtue of being Muslim, many people can become good, upstanding individuals. At the same time, there are some who justify acts of great cruelty with their religion. Have their hearts been "stamped" as well? Or are people free to have their own beliefs?




Do you really believe that a person's personal beliefs have a direct link to the level of body odor that he/she emits? Like honesty, do you really believe that?

By the way, two of my Muslim friends, both of whom got educated in Madressas and are Hafiz-e-Quran, have terrible breath. How do you explain that? How do you think I should let them know without damaging our friendship?

I am not talking about an individual... I am talking about them as a whole...
You guys' problem is that you always pick individuals' actions or incidents... he did this and he did that. It reveals one's mental and intelligence level.
I don't I always talk about ideology, system or nation as a whole.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-04-2011, 10:02 AM
I am not talking about an individual... I am talking about them as a whole...
You guys' problem is that you always pick individuals' actions or incidents... he did this and he did that. It reveals one's mental and intelligence level.
I don't I always talk about ideology, system or nation as a whole.

Okay. So do people's personal beliefs that they have in their minds have a bearing on the amount of odor that they emit?

emkhan
12-04-2011, 10:09 AM
Okay. So do people's personal beliefs that they have in their minds have a bearing on the amount of odor that they emit?

It was a response to your saying about hindus don't purify themselves after going to toilet. But still there is a question in this for your the science believer that why this is so ?

Alchemist
12-04-2011, 10:10 AM
How will my personal beliefs disrespect anyone? After all, even within Muslims, there are so many divisions as to the very nature of Allah. Some say He has a physical form and others say He is everywhere and is hence formless. They both make takfir upon one another at every opportunity. I do not see how one's beliefs can disrespect anyone else. People should be free to have their own beliefs. What sort of a world would it be where we force people to believe as we do on pain of death?

Allah does not have a Nature. To say that would mean that he is comparable to things that do have a Nature. For He has said himself that there is NO THING that compares or is analogous to Him. Therefore His "nature" is incomprehensible and beyound the limits of our senses.
Allah's attributes are described in the Qur'an and there is no disputing those.
What the scholars of Islam differ on, most lay muslims don't even understand. The differences between the general body of Muslim philosophy is much smaller than the differences between the different sects of Christianity. Even the heretical sects that do wish to keep the fecade of Islam have to concede that the final word is the Qur'an.
Since the Qur'an is to every muslim, what state constitutions and laws are to you, it shouldn't be a surprise that disputes over what The Law is would occur between individuals. This is why there are court systems even in secular institutions because the interpretation of law requires people who understand it and apply it to different contexts. You may wish to believe that children should be able to drink at the age of 15 ...but in most western countries if you are caught selling or providing a minor with alcohol, you will be criminally charged. Now does the enforcement of laws by society enfringe on your "freedom" to do whatever you like? Yes!
So it doesn't matter what you believe. For the most part you have to compromise what you believe against what society in general "believes".
In any country if you are found committing treason, you will be given the worst form of punishment. Similarly in an Islamic community if you apostatized you have from a legal perspective, committed an act of treason.
You only delude yourself when you think your self to be free like some 19th century cowboy in midwest.


This might be too much for some members of Pashtun Forums to grasp but for me, a person's beliefs are of very little consequence. Since the dawn of man, we have sought answers to questions regarding our existence and the purpose of our lives and many different belief systems have spawned as a result. Religion, to me, is a personal matter and I have no problems with atheists, agnostics, practicing Muslims, people who are Muslim by name, zealots, etc. A person's beliefs are as of as much importance to me as the colour of their skin.


I don't have anything against Islam, nor do I wish that it ends or is "defeated". As far as matters of belief are concerned, I'm completely indifferent - that is my position on the subject. I care not who people worship because they choose to believe what they do and they are entitled to their beliefs. I do not identify people with regards to their beliefs in deities but I do so with regards to their nations.

Even though you say that, you do have a problem with people's beliefs.

Beliefs are the source of people's actions. For the most part you do disagree with the actions of Muslims. Most that do apostatize do have a problem. For example osho believes that "ghairat" is a sign of backwardness and a hinderence for pashtuns to "modernize". You believe that Islamic Laws should be replaced with Secular Laws ...but if that were to happen in effect muslims wouldn't be as muslim as christians are christains in the west - only in name.








Like I mentioned earlier, it is my belief that religion will eventually be replaced by a scientific understanding of the world but I never said that it should be that way nor did I say that I want it to be that way. I am simply apathetic to its fate. I might very well be wrong and hence I carefully mentioned that it was just my opinion, which could very well be the opposite of the truth.


It is not in the magesterium of science to explain to you how to live your life.
Even if you were believe in debunked pseudoscientific theories like evolution...what would you derive from it? That the selfish gene compels you to work for your own interests above the rest? That you must sleep with as many women as possible and spread your seeds as much as possible otherwise you wouldn't be fulfilling your function?





Atheism is a theological and philosophical matter and it has no link with an individual and his feelings towards or relationship with his nation or state.



In fact, throughout history, the most ardent nationalists have always been, at the very least, apathetic to theological considerations.




Regardless of what you "believe"...if you go to afghanistan as a pashtun and an afghan (and not what your other passport says) and declare your atheism...by law...you will be hanged!
It doesn't matter what YOU believe...it matters more what the community believes.

Alchemist
12-04-2011, 10:28 AM
Are you suggesting that the cross is a symbol of the old Roman pagan belief system and not Christianity? And then I am supposed to be the ignorant one? Please check your facts, I think you've gotten a few things mixed up.



[/URL][URL]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+cross+pagan+symbol (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+cross+pagan+symbol)

Michin Khel
12-04-2011, 10:55 AM
If afghanistan is only for muslims and there no place in it for non-muslims like levanay zalmay then what about sikhs and hindus of kandahar? Who according to kandaharis are very patriot afghans. In the same way sikhs of peshawer and khyber agency are very well integrated into pashtun society. If an athiest e.g zalmay doesnt impose his personal beliefs on others then how he can not be part of pashtun society?
Leavanay zalmay has grasp on pashtun matters much stronger than most of you guys. Just because he is athiest ,it doesnt mean he loses credibility as a pashtun...i wont advocate all athiests, but i have great respect for zalmay because he is great as a person and his heart beats for pashtuns...

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 11:07 AM
what the hell are you talking about?you are not ozy so why come here start talkign crap.
a question for you : d you think your elders were idiots by being muslims?

thats like asking was my ancestors stupid for not using the microwave to heat their food

my elders were constrained by the limits of their knowledge and understanding. i have a different set of standards for those living today then those living 50,100,1000 yrs ago

people of my fathers generation, Islam is all they know. I dont fault them

The young ones of today should know better but you have to understand, as a rational logic person i dont care what people believe as long as it doesnt interfere with me

its the religious ones that are insecure and have small penises and get mad when people dont want to be their religion, and resort to arguments with threats etcetra etcetra

Michin Khel
12-04-2011, 11:08 AM
^
loserssssss
trying their best to be accept as Afghans but have no characteristics.

the point is that Afghanistan doesnt represent you and when you are to stand and sing the national anthem as a patriot you will have to say Allah u Akbar evne though it says nothing about you.

the same for the flag LA ILAHA ILA ALLAH MUHAMADU RASUL ALLAH and under that ALLAHU AKBAR the rest of emblem shows inside of a mosque.
so much for your nationalistic dreams.
http://idata.over-blog.com/4/10/42/52/afghanistan-flag.gif

And how much Afghan/Pashtun characteristics you have?...you live in USA and you are part of a westren society where you struggle every day to maintain your islamic and afghan identity...kids like you who are raised in west learn and develop pashtuniyat through internet sites like khyber.org , youtube etc...the owner of khyber.org is a omar khan marwat living in homeland who uploaded pashtun material so that any pashtun with identity crisis in west may get benefit from it. Similarly we pashtuns of homeland are uploading videos on youtube so that kid like you do not forget your origin and ways...but the irony is that these westren pashtuns learn ABC of pashtunwali on internet and then roar upon us that we are not good quality pashtuns.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 11:11 AM
And how much Afghan/Pashtun characteristics you have?...you live in USA and you are part of a westren society where you struggle every day to maintain your islamic and afghan identity...kids like you who are raised in west learn and develop pashtuniyat through internet sites like khyber.org , youtube etc...the owner of khyber.org is a omar khan marwat living in homeland who uploaded pashtun material so that any pashtun with identity crisis in west may get benefit from it. Similarly we pashtuns of homeland are uploading videos on youtube so that kid like you do not forget your origin and ways...but the irony is that these westren pashtuns learn ABC of pashtunwali on internet and then roar upon us that we are not good quality pashtuns.

Luffy dont waste your time on these Afghans, they are losers. Save your side believe me, an Afghan is not worth the effort.

Michin Khel
12-04-2011, 11:15 AM
Luffy dont waste your time on these Afghans, they are losers. Save your side believe me, an Afghan is not worth the effort.

Ofcourse brother.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 11:18 AM
Ofcourse brother.

This is not the Afghan or Afghanistan of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. We as a people and country have been so thoroughly devastated, we have lost all semblance of shame and intelligence

once tall, strong people now malnourished

even in the old poor days, we never begged. we never left our country for refuge. Now we are the biggest refugees in the world

Afghanistan needs a thorough cleansing. Im talking, killing a bunch of these mua****az

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:18 AM
My daddy was from Afghanistan, Im not


Let me make this very clear to you, because the Amir is a special case

Im a Pakhtun because of my paternal lineage
But Im not Afghan

I wasnt born there, or raised there. I dont have an Afghan passport or citizenship

Im from the West End Toronto, its all I know, I know nothing else.

NWA> Ahmad Zahir or whatever corny azz Afghan singer
Scarlett and Lawrence> whatever corny azz Kabul streets
Maple Leaf> That wack azz Religious inscription on the Afghan Flag

If being Afghan means having to submit myself to a belief system I reject, then Fukk Afghanistan

lol, yall trying to catch us non believers in a trap lol wont work, Id rather say fukk your country

I aint from Africa - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hO_3K6vRcU)

It didn't take long before you started showing your true colors.

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:20 AM
This is not the Afghan or Afghanistan of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. We as a people and country have been so thoroughly devastated, we have lost all semblance of shame and intelligence

once tall, strong people now malnourished

even in the old poor days, we never begged. we never left our country for refuge. Now we are the biggest refugees in the world

Afghanistan needs a thorough cleansing. Im talking, killing a bunch of these mua****az

You should start off by killing yourself. You are the dirt Afghanistan doesn't need. You bring shame to your family.. and the kakar tribe.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 11:23 AM
It didn't take long before you started showing your true colors.

Garbage like you ensures that the best and brightest of Afghans, will continue to serve countries that appreciate them

I look forward to being a productive member of Canadian society, and buying its good, consuming its products and paying taxes to this country

I understand Afghanistan is more concerned with what God you pray too. Well, take that to the bank. Use your belief in God to pay the prostitutes to get off the streets, or put bread in a widows lap, or stop human trafiikkers, or prevent foreigners from killing your people

no no no, these are not important. our personal religious beliefs determine our afghaniat.

we can rob the people, rape the women, collaborate with foreign invaders, but as long as we can say Subhanallah and pray the odd namaz we re okay

the funny thing is every athiest here, was raised Muslim. We can pretend to be Muslim very easily. But we re not with that fake shiit

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:34 AM
There are and there have been patriotic religious Afghans, patriotic Afghans who believe in secular democracy, patriotic Afghans who believe in Marxism, patriotic Afghans who believe in monarchy, patriotic Afghans who prefer the jirga system over a centralized government, etc, etc. Should we pick and choose who love their country the most?

In my opinion, a person's religion is his or her private matter. It does not make them any less Pushtun than anyone else. There is a lot of difference between culture and beliefs.

After all, if we follow your theory that Pashtun = Muslim, then we have to believe that before ~1000AD and Mahmud of Ghazni, there were no Pashtuns on the face of the earth.

So to answer your question very briefly, it makes no difference to me whatsoever whether the Afghan national anthem mentions Allah or the deity of any other religion nor does it make an iota of difference to me whether Afghans are Muslims or atheists.

No che ta da Afghanano pa zhabay pohegay no pa dwanrro ghwaguno wawra che ze da har yare na beghair wayalay shama che sumra meena ao mohabbat che ze laram ao Maseed lari da pukhto ao da pukhtano ao da haghoi da watan khowray sara, ta cherta ham da haghe lasama barkha nashay laralay.

Ze che kum qadar kawum da khpal watan, ze ye hich chaa ta da sabitawalo dapara mazur neyam. Ao khafgan kho da day khabaray day che staso ghwanday khalak sok che da kharjiano pa hewaduno ke warsara pa qalar wosegai dalta da day khowray khalko banday tor lagawai che staso daa ao staso haghaa..

Bachai, ta ba sa pohegay che da qaam meena sa shi ta wayi? Che bal ta guta nisay, salor gutay berta zaan ta wi. Che lag loy shay no pakhpala ba poye shay.

Religion is only a private matter in the west where muslims are a minority... so they have to cope with the laws of the majority.. isn't that how democracy works?

However, in case of Afghanistan, it is a whole different case. Despite all the ethnicities, Afghanistan is still 99% muslims...and if you think that the kalima and allahu akbar only has symbolic value, then you are just being ignorant...

The flag and the national anthem of a country is the representation of the people.......

yawazey khudai poyeshi chi desta pa zrey ki cheshai da aw aga teh da afghanistan sara meena larey ya nah...

teh woos ham peh koshish ki yey chi pe yaw las ki dwa indwaney wonesi..

Alchemist
12-04-2011, 11:37 AM
If afghanistan is only for muslims and there no place in it for non-muslims like levanay zalmay then what about sikhs and hindus of kandahar? Who according to kandaharis are very patriot afghans. In the same way sikhs of peshawer and khyber agency are very well integrated into pashtun society. If an athiest e.g zalmay doesnt impose his personal beliefs on others then how he can not be part of pashtun society?
Leavanay zalmay has grasp on pashtun matters much stronger than most of you guys. Just because he is athiest ,it doesnt mean he loses credibility as a pashtun...i wont advocate all athiests, but i have great respect for zalmay because he is great as a person and his heart beats for pashtuns...


Sikhs in afghanistan were required to identify themselves as such.

Also sikhs did not play any part in Afghan Politics. They were merchants...not soldiers, or politicians or imams or professors or writers.

If zalmay has so much knowledge of pashtun matters he wouldn't be sporting a picture of lenine on this forum. Communism is responsible for the deaths of 2 million afghans...more damage than what any mullah has caused in all pashtun history put together.

I am all for Niggaz With Attitudes...but the contradiction between a group that promotes sex, drugs and violence with pashtun culture is obvious for a westernized non pashtun for me ...yet there you go patting him on the back and saying "brother ...dees pepal dan no vat is pashtoon kalchar bekuz der is leving in de vest!"

I don't even know what side you are arguing half the time lol...

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:39 AM
youre so right, afghanistan doesnt need clean principled educated people

it needs more Mullahs and Karzais.

enjoy your shiit hole country. fukk afghanistan im from scarlett and lawrence

Im glad you and graveyard have contributed to this thread, it opened my eyes to the reality that my conception of "Afghanistan" is a fantasy. Who am I kidding, who are any of us Western Afghans kidding, back home is an absolute shiiit hole, full of the stupidest dumbest imbred garbage people

this is who I concern myself for lol?

you don't even know about my views and yet assuming so much. Afghanistan is in the current state, because of faithless animals like you.

Your family is also from Afghanistan.. so they are all stupid, dumbest, imbred garbage people...

you seem lost...

you are not a nigga..

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:43 AM
This Amir wannabe pashtun claims to be canadian, yet look at his username..

inferiority complex much? LOL

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 11:52 AM
Garbage like you ensures that the best and brightest of Afghans, will continue to serve countries that appreciate them

I look forward to being a productive member of Canadian society, and buying its good, consuming its products and paying taxes to this country

I understand Afghanistan is more concerned with what God you pray too. Well, take that to the bank. Use your belief in God to pay the prostitutes to get off the streets, or put bread in a widows lap, or stop human trafiikkers, or prevent foreigners from killing your people

no no no, these are not important. our personal religious beliefs determine our afghaniat.

we can rob the people, rape the women, collaborate with foreign invaders, but as long as we can say Subhanallah and pray the odd namaz we re okay

the funny thing is every athiest here, was raised Muslim. We can pretend to be Muslim very easily. But we re not with that fake shiit

Dear Sire,

You are not the brightest of Afghans. Trust me, I know. Here is the source of all of your education...


N.W.A. - A Bitch Iz A Bitch (HQ) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcSNnv7A_Lc)
dr.dre - bitches aint **** (but hoes and tricks) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYHL6AYAwQU)
Eazy-E - Trust No Bitch - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPj74ic-BK0)
Eazy e bitch better have my money - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSdCUJFO66c)
N.W.A. - **** Tha Police + Lyrics - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8)


I wouldn't be surprised, if you have been to jail..and ended up being a prag...

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 12:02 PM
And how much Afghan/Pashtun characteristics you have?...you live in USA and you are part of a westren society where you struggle every day to maintain your islamic and afghan identity...kids like you who are raised in west learn and develop pashtuniyat through internet sites like khyber.org , youtube etc...the owner of khyber.org is a omar khan marwat living in homeland who uploaded pashtun material so that any pashtun with identity crisis in west may get benefit from it. Similarly we pashtuns of homeland are uploading videos on youtube so that kid like you do not forget your origin and ways...but the irony is that these westren pashtuns learn ABC of pashtunwali on internet and then roar upon us that we are not good quality pashtuns.


Dino Bubble gum, when a person lives in a western country...it doesn't mean that he is struggling to maintain his islamic and afghan identity..

I know families in here...who have been in here for over 40 years...their kids are born in here..who all speak pashto, farsi, urdu and english...and they are also very religious and practice islam well. They all love Afghanistan too, and also got married in Afghanistan as well.. unlike the nigga wannabe ..


It's all in the mind my friend.. not everyone has a weak imaan like you do..

No wonder you are siding with a kafir.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:22 PM
And how much Afghan/Pashtun characteristics you have?...you live in USA and you are part of a westren society where you struggle every day to maintain your islamic and afghan identity...kids like you who are raised in west learn and develop pashtuniyat through internet sites like khyber.org , youtube etc...the owner of khyber.org is a omar khan marwat living in homeland who uploaded pashtun material so that any pashtun with identity crisis in west may get benefit from it. Similarly we pashtuns of homeland are uploading videos on youtube so that kid like you do not forget your origin and ways...but the irony is that these westren pashtuns learn ABC of pashtunwali on internet and then roar upon us that we are not good quality pashtuns.
you dont knwo anything about people living in the west except for your typical non sense thinking you are some way better living in denial.

1 i dont live in USA you ignorant person.
2 i do not follow western values but my own Islamic and pashtun culture.
matter of fact we still live in tribal system here,unlike the amir types who bark for pork.No need to struggle we know very well who we are,you are ill informed.
3.wrong again i was born and raised in my country and we are strickt on our culture and we have all the freedom to practice our religion here.Btw i dont trust khyber.org's content.
you pashtun from homeland cant even read or write pashto unlike me,so what benefit do i "westerm identity crises" have on you.
if i were to know my origin from you dan i might have thought to be a ranjeeth singhi.

4.didnt learn pashtunwali on the internet neither do i have the need for it.

you failed you liar.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Dino Bubble gum, when a person lives in a western country...it doesn't mean that he is struggling to maintain his islamic and afghan identity..

I know families in here...who have been in here for over 40 years...their kids are born in here..who all speak pashto, farsi, urdu and english...and they are also very religious and practice islam well. They all love Afghanistan too, and also got married in Afghanistan as well.. unlike the nigga wannabe ..


It's all in the mind my friend.. not everyone has a weak imaan like you do..

No wonder you are siding with a kafir.
some of my family members came to germany long time ago and their grand children were born here.
they are like the most adherent pashtuns,unlike some so called living in watan and wanna bee western or living in western wanna be NWA

Michin Khel
12-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Dino Bubble gum, when a person lives in a western country...it doesn't mean that he is struggling to maintain his islamic and afghan identity..

I know families in here...who have been in here for over 40 years...their kids are born in here..who all speak pashto, farsi, urdu and english...and they are also very religious and practice islam well. They all love Afghanistan too, and also got married in Afghanistan as well.. unlike the nigga wannabe ..


It's all in the mind my friend.. not everyone has a weak imaan like you do..

No wonder you are siding with a kafir.

Na wrora , i am simply not into this hate stuff....Its their personal beliefs. As long as they dont cross limits and attack islam, we should be ok with them...

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:27 PM
This Amir wannabe pashtun claims to be canadian, yet look at his username..

inferiority complex much? LOL
his screenname is that of an uzbek Islamic emperor who was known as buth shekan,his avatar shows a zionist and a mass murderer,he is an atheist and claims to be pashtun and brags about chanpagne and spare ribs.

nigga please

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:28 PM
Na wrora , i am simply not into this hate stuff....Its their personal beliefs. As long as they dont cross limits and attack islam, we should be ok with them...
they do attack Islam and you are too weak to defen yours,so instead you attack us che ekhpel mekh wartha speen ke.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:34 PM
If afghanistan is only for muslims and there no place in it for non-muslims like levanay zalmay then what about sikhs and hindus of kandahar? Who according to kandaharis are very patriot afghans. In the same way sikhs of peshawer and khyber agency are very well integrated into pashtun society. If an athiest e.g zalmay doesnt impose his personal beliefs on others then how he can not be part of pashtun society?
Leavanay zalmay has grasp on pashtun matters much stronger than most of you guys. Just because he is athiest ,it doesnt mean he loses credibility as a pashtun...i wont advocate all athiests, but i have great respect for zalmay because he is great as a person and his heart beats for pashtuns...
those sikhs and hindus are indeed patriotic and they dont have a problem with muslim pashtuns unlike these people who wish to deislamise Pashtuns.
so the fact is he does try to impose his belief on others,

Michin Khel
12-04-2011, 12:36 PM
they do attack Islam and you are too weak to defen yours,so instead you attack us che ekhpel mekh wartha speen ke.

You always talks of loy afghanistan and leavany zalmay is a big supporter of loy afghanistan..you two have this in common but you are rejecting him because he is an athiest?

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:40 PM
You always talks of loy afghanistan and leavany zalmay is a big supporter of loy afghanistan..you two have this in common but you are rejecting him because he is an athiest?
yes i do because he disrespects over 99% of pashtuns.
he would have respected the people first than to think about loy Afghanistan.
they also expect tolerance when they dont show any tolerance to Pukhtane and disrespect their way of life and culte and think they are superior for being deislamised.

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Both of you losers live in the west and disrespect their better way of life, beghairat munafiqs

You two losers must envy the principle and honesty of the Amir

Afghanistan is going to hell, and jn 10 yrs will be wiped off the map

But no no, those athiests are the problem

Lol

Why do you even care? You are niether Afghan or Pashtun... go away.. you african canadian..nwa

Inshallah, Afghans will fix their own problems..they don't need peanut heads like you...

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 12:55 PM
thats like asking was my ancestors stupid for not using the microwave to heat their food

my elders were constrained by the limits of their knowledge and understanding. i have a different set of standards for those living today then those living 50,100,1000 yrs ago

people of my fathers generation, Islam is all they know. I dont fault them

The young ones of today should know better but you have to understand, as a rational logic person i dont care what people believe as long as it doesnt interfere with me

its the religious ones that are insecure and have small penises and get mad when people dont want to be their religion, and resort to arguments with threats etcetra etcetra
not really
using a microwave,computer,car is something different than changing one's religion.
there are millions of pashtuns who use these things and they havent deviated from their way of life.
so are you telling me using microwave requires one to be an atheist?
you think just cuz you were born in canada and lack your religion means you are something better than the over majority of pashtuns and your own parents and grandparents?
NO YOU AE NOT
people of your fathers generation knew they truth and you dont,simple as that.Young ones of today are also Alhamdulilah muslims and yourngsters int he future will eb that as well,they wont change their religion for champagn and pork chops.
you say that as long as they dont interfere with mine but than you go talking about genitile size which shows that you have no respect that their are muslim/pashtun girls around here,so you do interfere with ours,so the best option for you is to change your name to Bob and leave us alone.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-04-2011, 01:00 PM
not really
using a microwave,computer,car is something different than changing one's religion.
there are millions of pashtuns who use these things and they havent deviated from their way of life.
so are you telling me using microwave requires one to be an atheist?
you think just cuz you were born in canada and lack your religion means you are something better than the over majority of pashtuns and your own parents and grandparents?
NO YOU AE NOT
people of your fathers generation knew they truth and you dont,simple as that.Young ones of today are also Alhamdulilah muslims and yourngsters int he future will eb that as well,they wont change their religion for champagn and pork chops.
you say that as long as they dont interfere with mine but than you go talking about genitile size which shows that you have no respect that their are muslim/pashtun girls around here,so you do interfere with ours,so the best option for you is to change your name to Bob and leave us alone.

Does it make you mad that when this 6"7 Kakar walks into a room, all you hear is whispers of namukhuda and "da yow asal afghan da, shakal teh wogara"

When you walk into a room, you hear whispers of "kesey ho bai jan, tik tak hoga"

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 01:12 PM
Does it make you mad that when this 6"7 Kakar walks into a room, all you hear is whispers of namukhuda and "da yow asal afghan da, shakal teh wogara"

When you walk into a room, you hear whispers of "kesey ho bai jan, tik tak hoga"
typical non sense coming from a fake pashtun as you are.
when you walk in they would say "da khezonak sog dey,Dam kho ba neweey"
and when you start talking your anti afghan non sense "poza wamatha ka dedey beghairahta belamaza jenota"

you dont even know what i look like,and i feel sorry for you.

JAMALUDEEN
12-04-2011, 01:12 PM
Does it make you mad that when this 6"7 Kakar walks into a room, all you hear is whispers of namukhuda and "da yow asal afghan da, shakal teh wogara"

When you walk into a room, you hear whispers of "kesey ho bai jan, tik tak hoga"

you should seek help..if you hear whispers..in your ears..

emkhan
12-04-2011, 01:15 PM
typical non sense coming from a fake pashtun as you are.
when you walk in they would say "da khezonak sog dey,Dam kho ba neweey"
and when you start talking your anti afghan non sense "poza wamatha ka dedey beghairahta belamaza jenota"

you dont even know what i look like,and i feel sorry for you.

hahahahahah OMG... graveyarda bs ka. der rikhtya ma waya... da halak ba pa jarraa shi. bya ba ye sok qalarawi.

graveyardofempires
12-04-2011, 01:19 PM
^
der me zre pe swazey bechara na lara wreka da.

BarakzaiAbdali
12-04-2011, 05:47 PM
I couldn't care less how "secularists" talk. Why can't I talk about Islam? If Christians and atheists can write entire encyclopedias on Islam, can I not even speak about it?

In any case, I have observed here that some of the most outspoken Islamists on PF use the worst sort of language and do not fear using abuses and derogatory terms for others. Modesty and patience are the last two qualities that they show. If you don't believe me, I can post many examples for you. In fact, I have reported dozens of posts by your friends to the administrators many times and you can even ask them if you don't take my word for it.

OK Lavaneea Lets hold palaver. And it is palaver because I feel that this discussion has been had a thousand times now a thousand and one.

Its not your discussion of Islam, its your incoherence and contradictory nature.

Take for example your views on history and your own people. If you have lived there, you know full well what the true state of affairs are in the village and what the average Pashtun views as important. But you SUBVERT this.

You create an anti reality and revise or neglect history that is uncomfortable for you. Yet you decry the Muslim revisionist who dares question the holocaust or some other Western assertion. This is the accusation you make against the hardcore Muslims, but you do the same thing!

Take for instance your repeated assertions justifying American incursions into Afghanistan. You blithely state: well Osama and a group of Arabs did a terrorist attack on America and that justified America entering Afghanistan. Then, you predicate your support for the Karzai government and the former Najib government (two governments with nearly diametrically opposed views on capitalism) based on this.

Yet you gloss over the very important history of what America did to create the mess, instead deciding, without substance or proof that the typical Pashtun communist retort of "Brzenzski dunnit" suffices. You know full well it does not. You know full well what sort of incursions and adventures on the part of the Western powers and their interventionalism created this mess.

You know full well what the rural masses live like and what they are comfortable with.

Ghaznavi is in an entirely different boat than you. From day 1 here, when you see his oldest posts he clearly states that he may not agree with the ground level Afghan... he does not believe in the same theological constructs as the rural masses... but he admits freely that this is what Afghanistan is and was. He does not try to create an anti reality where Pashtuns were bangra bagra ing it up, where Khushaal Khan Khattak could go and pay some visits to Zergunaay's house and take her out for coffee.

He does not create this false construct that you and others do where Pashtuns were like some sort of Soap Opera melodrama of love devoid of any sort of societal mores.

And also, if we talk about insults, let us think for a minute about what the village mother will tolerate or the village elder.

From you we have heard about scotch on the rocks, Lindsay Lohan looking good in skirts, and Veena Malik being brave.

To many in our areas these are offensive as much as Graveyard and AFG21's language toward eachother, if not more.

Take in other instances your blithe postings without serious investigation before you do it, regarding Islamic injunctions.

For instance you posted the hadith that supposedly discusses chess, a board game the Arabs had yet to encounter, and just said here: fatwa proves its haraam. And then you sat back and confidently assumed you had just made Islamic theology look backwards, idiotic, and foolish when in fact it was your own inadequate research on the subject that made you look that way.

I mean your views are not hard to figure out, you basically march lock stock and barell with the prototypical ANPiite view of what Pashtuns should be, but are not.

And this is the massive chasm of difference between you and the Amir. He has stated clearly that secular democracy, atheism, amongst other ideological constructs are not native to Afghanistan and are not palatable to the masses. He views Afghanistan as it is, not as he wishes it to be.

Even his commentaries on Islam, he does not go to the local polemic website called answeringislam.com and cut and paste from there, and not have read up on the topic.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-05-2011, 03:23 AM
OK Lavaneea Lets hold palaver. And it is palaver because I feel that this discussion has been had a thousand times now a thousand and one.

Its not your discussion of Islam, its your incoherence and contradictory nature.

Take for example your views on history and your own people. If you have lived there, you know full well what the true state of affairs are in the village and what the average Pashtun views as important. But you SUBVERT this.

I don't recall ever trying to prove that Pashtuns are generally not religious.

You create an anti reality and revise or neglect history that is uncomfortable for you. Yet you decry the Muslim revisionist who dares question the holocaust or some other Western assertion. This is the accusation you make against the hardcore Muslims, but you do the same thing!

I like to believe that I'd put my weight behind whoever has the best evidence. I don't remember choosing any position without reviewing the evidence from both sides.

Take for instance your repeated assertions justifying American incursions into Afghanistan. You blithely state: well Osama and a group of Arabs did a terrorist attack on America and that justified America entering Afghanistan. Then, you predicate your support for the Karzai government and the former Najib government (two governments with nearly diametrically opposed views on capitalism) based on this.

That is a matter of opinion. Some still glorify Al-Qaeda and the Taliban regime despite their human rights record and their subservience to Punjab and they are free to choose to believe as they do. Virtually every terrorist organization from Punjab had set up its office in Afghanistan during that era and since we couldn't get rid of them ourselves, the Americans did it for us. Or does holding that position stop me from being a Pashtun?

As for Karzai and Najeebullah, I'm not an ideologue nor am I an extremist. I oppose both states of mind.

Yet you gloss over the very important history of what America did to create the mess, instead deciding, without substance or proof that the typical Pashtun communist retort of "Brzenzski dunnit" suffices. You know full well it does not. You know full well what sort of incursions and adventures on the part of the Western powers and their interventionalism created this mess.

Can you please further elaborate on this point?

You know full well what the rural masses live like and what they are comfortable with.

Ghaznavi is in an entirely different boat than you. From day 1 here, when you see his oldest posts he clearly states that he may not agree with the ground level Afghan... he does not believe in the same theological constructs as the rural masses... but he admits freely that this is what Afghanistan is and was. He does not try to create an anti reality where Pashtuns were bangra bagra ing it up, where Khushaal Khan Khattak could go and pay some visits to Zergunaay's house and take her out for coffee.


If Khushal Khan were alive today, he would've been killed by the Taliban or their Al-Qaeda allies a long time ago. As it is, the Arabs generally hate to see their conquered peoples practicing their own cultures or speaking their own languages. The Taliban couldn't even leave Rahman Baba in peace and bombed his shrine. And I don't think they would've appreciated the following couplet:


شېخ دې لمونځ روژه کا زه به ډکې پيالې اخلم
هرسړی پيدا دی خپل خپل کار لره که نه

He does not create this false construct that you and others do where Pashtuns were like some sort of Soap Opera melodrama of love devoid of any sort of societal mores.

Where have I created a false construct? Can you tell me exactly where I've done this?

And also, if we talk about insults, let us think for a minute about what the village mother will tolerate or the village elder.

From you we have heard about scotch on the rocks, Lindsay Lohan looking good in skirts, and Veena Malik being brave.

To many in our areas these are offensive as much as Graveyard and AFG21's language toward eachother, if not more.

So LZ cannot even make a joke every now and then? I'm sorry, Barakzai seb but I can't be serious like you all the time.. It's not in my nature. :hairy:

Take in other instances your blithe postings without serious investigation before you do it, regarding Islamic injunctions.

For instance you posted the hadith that supposedly discusses chess, a board game the Arabs had yet to encounter, and just said here: fatwa proves its haraam. And then you sat back and confidently assumed you had just made Islamic theology look backwards, idiotic, and foolish when in fact it was your own inadequate research on the subject that made you look that way.

With people like graveyard, emkhan (he claims that non-Muslims smell bad because of their beliefs lol), al-arab, al-hanif, al-habibi wal-kababi, etc around, do you really think that I, of all people, will Islam look backwards and foolish?

Yeah, I just did a ctrl+f on my Sahih Muslim PDF. What do you know, I was wrong. I'm fallible, after all.

I mean your views are not hard to figure out, you basically march lock stock and barell with the prototypical ANPiite view of what Pashtuns should be, but are not.

Again, I don't remember ever posting anything about how any individual should be, let alone the Pashtun nation.

And this is the massive chasm of difference between you and the Amir. He has stated clearly that secular democracy, atheism, amongst other ideological constructs are not native to Afghanistan and are not palatable to the masses. He views Afghanistan as it is, not as he wishes it to be.

Even his commentaries on Islam, he does not go to the local polemic website called answeringislam.com and cut and paste from there, and not have read up on the topic.

Again, I've never said that Pashtuns are liberals who believe in democratic values and what not. If you read my last post, I have stated that Pashtuns hold many different views.

Lastly, I have never borrowed any argument from answering-islam. I find that website appalling and deceitful.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-05-2011, 03:35 AM
Even though you say that, you do have a problem with people's beliefs.

Beliefs are the source of people's actions. For the most part you do disagree with the actions of Muslims. Most that do apostatize do have a problem. For example osho believes that "ghairat" is a sign of backwardness and a hinderence for pashtuns to "modernize". You believe that Islamic Laws should be replaced with Secular Laws ...but if that were to happen in effect muslims wouldn't be as muslim as christians are christains in the west - only in name.

Morality does not come from religion. I know of many Muslim Pashtun males who commit zina and are not even ashamed of it. I don't share this habit with them. So that would make me more Muslim than them in a manner of speaking.

Osho is entitled to his opinions just like you are to yours.


It is not in the magesterium of science to explain to you how to live your life.

Oh no, you just invoked NOMA...

To be honest, people end up leading their lives however they like, Muslim, Christian or Hindu!


Even if you were believe in debunked pseudoscientific theories like evolution

I'm still waiting for you to scientifically disprove evolution and win the Pashtun nation its first Nobel prize. Bachaa Khan came close but he couldn't win, he only got a nomination. What's stopping you?

That the selfish gene compels you to work for your own interests above the rest? That you must sleep with as many women as possible and spread your seeds as much as possible otherwise you wouldn't be fulfilling your function?

Hey hey, I'm an opponent of polygamy, not its proponent! :hairy:

Regardless of what you "believe"...if you go to afghanistan as a pashtun and an afghan (and not what your other passport says) and declare your atheism...by law...you will be hanged!
It doesn't matter what YOU believe...it matters more what the community believes.

My beliefs are very personal to me and I don't wear them on my sleeve. I don't advocate them and I don't think they make me better than anyone else. I might not smell as good as you or emkhan but I'm still a nice guy, okay? I'm sure there are many others who always end up asking themselves - is it really real? What does it all mean?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-05-2011, 03:50 AM
Religion is only a private matter in the west where muslims are a minority... so they have to cope with the laws of the majority.. isn't that how democracy works?

However, in case of Afghanistan, it is a whole different case. Despite all the ethnicities, Afghanistan is still 99% muslims...and if you think that the kalima and allahu akbar only has symbolic value, then you are just being ignorant...

The flag and the national anthem of a country is the representation of the people.......

yawazey khudai poyeshi chi desta pa zrey ki cheshai da aw aga teh da afghanistan sara meena larey ya nah...

teh woos ham peh koshish ki yey chi pe yaw las ki dwa indwaney wonesi..


So what you're saying is that myself, Soldat, osho, Kakarr and many others are not Pashtun despite the fact that we descend from Pashtun tribes, we speak Pashto and we are all Pashtun nationalists? How does one cease to be a Pashtun?

Also, you didn't answer my question. Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Why do Pashtuns say their nation is 6,000 years old? Are they as deluded as me?

By the way, since you're so big on this, I have a few questions for you:

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?

The answer to most of these questions is no. Therefore, you are not a Pashtun. You don't follow Pashtun culture and you don't even have a Sunnah beard (which, according to you, is a part of Pashtun culture, ya habibi). You don't pray five times a day in a mosque and neither do 90% of the rest of the members here.

Soldat_Amir
12-05-2011, 03:58 AM
So what you're saying is that myself, Soldat, osho, Kakarr and many others are not Pashtun despite the fact that we descend from Pashtun tribes, we speak Pashto and we are all Pashtun nationalists? How does one cease to be a Pashtun?

Also, you didn't answer my question. Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Why do Pashtuns say their nation is 6,000 years old? Are they as deluded as me?

By the way, since you're so big on this, I have a few questions for you:

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?

The answer to most of these questions is no. Therefore, you are not a Pashtun. You don't follow Pashtun culture and you don't even have a Sunnah beard (which, according to you, is a part of Pashtun culture, ya habibi). You don't pray five times a day in a mosque and neither do 90% of the rest of the members here.


Lewanay vrora.....Jamal is a hypocrite himself, he spends most of his time on this forum flirting with female members and he calls himself a righteous follower of al Islam, does he know, the segregation laws also apply to the Internet.

Anyway, back on topic.

Lewanay Vrora, its cool, let these Talib supporters from America,West sleeping in their cosy beds watching American sitcoms call us Non Pashtuns, its okay zma vrora I would rather be an ancestor of a Real Pashtun, you know, the tribesmen who gave their blood to fight off the Arabs and Turks and preserve their real culture and religion than these confused minded Arab slaves who walk around judging who is a Pashtun or not while they sit in America or any other Western country.

Just like the Pakis, Jamal like people's history starts with Islam and ends with Islam, just like the Pakis whose history starts in the 40s and ends........Such people are a obstacle one must just brush aside with all other fanatics and loony bins.

One day, i hope Jamaludeen, gets booted as a slave labourer in UAE or Saudi Arabia, and let him taste the beauties of his holy land, when they lash him to move faster.

Preshza da, da khalq doo nambar dee, Jamal cant even resist to chat up female members on this forum, then he dons the Jihadi and "I am the Pashtun" suit jsut to troll more decent and intelligent members on this forum.


Jamaludeen, for your own information, I have worked with charities in DI Khan and even physically handed out rations and aid to fleeing IDPS from Waziristan in 2009.

Now, from that one true and honest act, what have you exactly done for the Pashtun people besides sit there and call others Non Pashtun.

Go back to your hole where you belong.

Soldat_Amir
12-05-2011, 04:09 AM
EM Khan you ever smelt the dirty gutters of Pakistan? Nobody you ran away and live in clean Britain.

Soldat_Amir
12-05-2011, 04:20 AM
You always talks of loy afghanistan and leavany zalmay is a big supporter of loy afghanistan..you two have this in common but you are rejecting him because he is an athiest?

Zma vrora

Graveyard of empire, thinks the Afghan Taliban are fighting for a loy Afghanistan. This goes to show his mentality and knowledge.

He is a person you just brush side or give him a rupee to silence his jibberish.

He ignores ground realities and theory. He ignores who educated the Taliban and from what ideology they inherited.

Taliban oppose all forms of Nationalism including Loy Afghanistan, because they refuse anything outside the identity of Islam and being a slave to Punjab.

Grave probably was not even born during the Talib rule, he probably has not read any book related to the Taliban.

He see's a few videos on youtube and then comes to the conclusion that the Taliban are fighting for a Loy Afghanistan.

He considers using children as suicide bombers reasonable and holy while he sponges off the German tax payers money living on welfare and being a complete "duffar".

Its these kind of people that give us Pashtuns a very bad name. They have no logic nor rationality on anything.

If graveyard met a Talib and told him "hey roara, I hear your fighting for a Loy Afghanistan against these Punjabis"

Talib 100 percent would reply "Silence, they are our Mujahid brothers, how dare you speak of dividing the Pro Talib Ummah of Pakistan, they fed us, and protect us, and most of the Mujahid were educated in their madrassahs by Punjabi Pakistani Madrassah teachers, we cant blame Pakistan for what they did, they are a poor muslim country with the only nuclear bombs"

I know for a fact, Graveyardofempires would switch sides and change his whole views and become bhai bhai of Punjabi Mujahids hahaha

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-05-2011, 04:29 AM
Lewanay vrora.....Jamal is a hypocrite himself, he spends most of his time on this forum flirting with female members and he calls himself a righteous follower of al Islam, does he know, the segregation laws also apply to the Internet.

Anyway, back on topic.

Lewanay Vrora, its cool, let these Talib supporters from America,West sleeping in their cosy beds watching American sitcoms call us Non Pashtuns, its okay zma vrora I would rather be an ancestor of a Real Pashtun, you know, the tribesmen who gave their blood to fight off the Arabs and Turks and preserve their real culture and religion than these confused minded Arab slaves who walk around judging who is a Pashtun or not while they sit in America or any other Western country.

Just like the Pakis, Jamal like people's history starts with Islam and ends with Islam, just like the Pakis whose history starts in the 40s and ends........Such people are a obstacle one must just brush aside with all other fanatics and loony bins.

One day, i hope Jamaludeen, gets booted as a slave labourer in UAE or Saudi Arabia, and let him taste the beauties of his holy land, when they lash him to move faster.

Preshza da, da khalq doo nambar dee, Jamal cant even resist to chat up female members on this forum, then he dons the Jihadi and "I am the Pashtun" suit jsut to troll more decent and intelligent members on this forum.


Jamaludeen, for your own information, I have worked with charities in DI Khan and even physically handed out rations and aid to fleeing IDPS from Waziristan in 2009.

Now, from that one true and honest act, what have you exactly done for the Pashtun people besides sit there and call others Non Pashtun.

Go back to your hole where you belong.


Ao.. da khalak zaan ta Afghanan wayii kho pa fikr ke sam Pakistanyan di. Bal sok da mazhab pa num spakawal ao sahar makhaam mazhab-deen-imaan pa gharra garzawal da Pakistanyano da ttolo na khwakh adatuna di.

Pa sa waja doi nashi zghamalay che bal sok ham khpal soch ao fikr laralay shi. Khudai khabar day che walay mung na dumra kraka kawi.

Insaaf_انصاف
12-05-2011, 06:07 AM
I'm not an atheist, but i'm happy to see that there are " reasonnable " pashtuns in this forum .

JAMALUDEEN
12-05-2011, 07:27 AM
Zma vrora

Graveyard of empire, thinks the Afghan Taliban are fighting for a loy Afghanistan. This goes to show his mentality and knowledge.

He is a person you just brush side or give him a rupee to silence his jibberish.

He ignores ground realities and theory. He ignores who educated the Taliban and from what ideology they inherited.

Taliban oppose all forms of Nationalism including Loy Afghanistan, because they refuse anything outside the identity of Islam and being a slave to Punjab.

Grave probably was not even born during the Talib rule, he probably has not read any book related to the Taliban.

He see's a few videos on youtube and then comes to the conclusion that the Taliban are fighting for a Loy Afghanistan.

He considers using children as suicide bombers reasonable and holy while he sponges off the German tax payers money living on welfare and being a complete "duffar".

Its these kind of people that give us Pashtuns a very bad name. They have no logic nor rationality on anything.

If graveyard met a Talib and told him "hey roara, I hear your fighting for a Loy Afghanistan against these Punjabis"

Talib 100 percent would reply "Silence, they are our Mujahid brothers, how dare you speak of dividing the Pro Talib Ummah of Pakistan, they fed us, and protect us, and most of the Mujahid were educated in their madrassahs by Punjabi Pakistani Madrassah teachers, we cant blame Pakistan for what they did, they are a poor muslim country with the only nuclear bombs"

I know for a fact, Graveyardofempires would switch sides and change his whole views and become bhai bhai of Punjabi Mujahids hahaha

Everyone is well-aware of your contributions to this forum. Wasn't it you who trolled this forum with different aliases, switching sides on each return, and getting banned each time.

Wasn't it you who swore at all kandaharis, as you were made to look stupid.. with your dumb pro western arguments..

Isn't it you who is anti-islam? even though you know that 99% of Afghanistan is muslim.. and that with every anti islamic rant of yours, you are disrespecting everyone..

You posed as a pakistani onetime, American one time, M16 chamcha another onetime.. and the list goes on..

Please stop projecting your own faults on others...

What you and your commie friends fail to realise is that, what me or GOE want for Afghanistan is actually to allow the people of Afghanistan to choose their own future.. and that means no interference by foriegners, in making their internal decisions... which means, that if people of Afghanistan were faithless like you, they would go with communism..or some other western system... but reality is quite the contrary...

and then because the fraud, intellectually dishonest,and ignorant fool that you are....making dry accusations..which are untrue.. you go on saying "Jamaludeen live in the west, cosy in bed..flirt with girls...hoho haha... why not want same thing for afghan..not fair... Afghan poor.. no food..no job...afghans forced being muslims by arabs"

Its because dumb ass, we actually want the people to choose their own future, and if they want to side with the taliban, then it is their choice...who are you to tell them, what to do? Didn't you and comrades do enough damage already?

now let me slap you with a bit of reality...

Guess what? Taliban are no one else but the people of Afghanistan themselves...

Guess what, you will never be accepted as a pashtun, as you are a deviant outkast..who does not believe in Allah...

Guess what, you will be considered a spy..

Guess what? As long...as muslims are majority in Afghanistan, you will never succeed with your little pro western agendas.

Truth is bitter. Learn to cope with it..and stop making false accusations...

skirt.

Soldat_Amir
12-05-2011, 07:29 AM
Ao.. da khalak zaan ta Afghanan wayii kho pa fikr ke sam Pakistanyan di. Bal sok da mazhab pa num spakawal ao sahar makhaam mazhab-deen-imaan pa gharra garzawal da Pakistanyano da ttolo na khwakh adatuna di.

Pa sa waja doi nashi zghamalay che bal sok ham khpal soch ao fikr laralay shi. Khudai khabar day che walay mung na dumra kraka kawi.

Aow kana! da khalq pa Western countries shay nastee dee, Western tax paisay kreee, aow meez ta ya yee chee tuse Pashtin na yee aoe tuese Kuffur yeee.

Da dooo nambar khalq deee!

Ar yu Pashtin pa mu zra shay deee, Muslim nor Not, da khalq na gwaree chee Pashtin progress shee, Da afsos khabara da cheee daygh day Pa west shay nust deee aow meeez ta yee cheee kim Pashtin westernized wee aow Secular wee da day Pashtun dushman deee.

Worray warkseee, doo nambar khalq...doday kreee pa West shay aow ma ta ya yeee Afghanistan tu gwanay khalq na goreee!

Pa DI Khan shay, mu sumraaa khalq khizmat mu waka, paisay paghar, toola reeez mu ghat ghat reezay aow UN aid sacks mu khalqoo ta wray ka wal.

Da Jamaludeen aoe GOE cha kareee deee Pashtin pura?

Soldat_Amir
12-05-2011, 07:33 AM
Everyone is well-aware of your contributions to this forum. Wasn't it you who trolled this forum with different aliases, switching sides on each return, and getting banned each time.

Wasn't it you who swore at all kandaharis, as you were made to look stupid.. with your dumb pro western arguments..

Isn't it you who is anti-islam? even though you know that 99% of Afghanistan is muslim.. and that with every anti islamic rant of yours, you are disrespecting everyone..

You posed as a pakistani onetime, American one time, M16 chamcha another onetime.. and the list goes on..

Please stop projecting your own faults on others...

What you and your commie friends fail to realise is that, what me or GOE want for Afghanistan is actually to allow the people of Afghanistan to choose their own future.. and that means no interference by foriegners, in making their internal decisions... which means, that if people of Afghanistan were faithless like you, they would go with communism..or some other western system... but reality is quite the contrary...

and then because the fraud, intellectually dishonest,and ignorant fool that you are....making dry accusations..which are untrue.. you go on saying "Jamaludeen live in the west, cosy in bed..flirt with girls...hoho haha... why not want same thing for afghan..not fair... Afghan poor.. no food..no job...afghans forced being muslims by arabs"

Its because dumb ass, we actually want the people to choose their own future, and if they want to side with the taliban, then it is their choice...who are you to tell them, what to do? Didn't you and comrades do enough damage already?

now let me slap you with a bit of reality...

Guess what? Taliban are no one else but the people of Afghanistan themselves...

Guess what, you will never be accepted as a pashtun, as you are a deviant outkast..who does not believe in Allah...

Guess what, you will be considered a spy..

Guess what? As long...as muslims are majority in Afghanistan, you will never succeed with your little pro western agendas.

Truth is bitter. Learn to cope with it..and stop making false accusations...

skirt.


The truth is your living in the west and calling others Non Pashtuns.
Your a little kid who has just reached puberty.
Spend your time wisely and flirt with cyber girls on the random thoughts thread.
I am not a commie, Iam a Pashtun Nationalist, even from that you would find it difficult to understand common sense and logic.
If you want to propose Islamic teachings upon the Pashtuns, then be a following Muslim and leave the West.
Pray 5 times a day, speak to only males on the net and never listen to music.

You can never do these things because your a born hypocrite.

Afghanistan will remain backward and uncivilised if people like you, the hypocrites living in secular countries but preach the opposite to your native kin.

Like I said, run along to your hole where you belong.

Afghanistan will progress, change and become a modern state. No longer will the Mullahs rule.

JAMALUDEEN
12-05-2011, 07:36 AM
Lewanay vrora.....Jamal is a hypocrite himself, he spends most of his time on this forum flirting with female members and he calls himself a righteous follower of al Islam, does he know, the segregation laws also apply to the Internet.

Anyway, back on topic.

Lewanay Vrora, its cool, let these Talib supporters from America,West sleeping in their cosy beds watching American sitcoms call us Non Pashtuns, its okay zma vrora I would rather be an ancestor of a Real Pashtun, you know, the tribesmen who gave their blood to fight off the Arabs and Turks and preserve their real culture and religion than these confused minded Arab slaves who walk around judging who is a Pashtun or not while they sit in America or any other Western country.

Just like the Pakis, Jamal like people's history starts with Islam and ends with Islam, just like the Pakis whose history starts in the 40s and ends........Such people are a obstacle one must just brush aside with all other fanatics and loony bins.

One day, i hope Jamaludeen, gets booted as a slave labourer in UAE or Saudi Arabia, and let him taste the beauties of his holy land, when they lash him to move faster.

Preshza da, da khalq doo nambar dee, Jamal cant even resist to chat up female members on this forum, then he dons the Jihadi and "I am the Pashtun" suit jsut to troll more decent and intelligent members on this forum.


Jamaludeen, for your own information, I have worked with charities in DI Khan and even physically handed out rations and aid to fleeing IDPS from Waziristan in 2009.

Now, from that one true and honest act, what have you exactly done for the Pashtun people besides sit there and call others Non Pashtun.

Go back to your hole where you belong.

I have always considered all the girls in here as my sisters.

Therefore, Keep your cheap tactics for someone else.. in order to avoid my arguments.. as they won't work on me.

Why don't you take politics in England, and leave the people of Afghanistan alone...

England is a very progressive country.. as you may put it..and you will love it.

Change your name to peter and dye your hair blonde.. It will suit you.. you will fit in better as well..

Afghanistan doesn't need garbage bags like you..anyways..

and stop with the paki non sense, the people of Pakistan are actually nice people.. it is actually their government and army that i don't agree with..

You are full of hate....

I suggest, you take a chill pill like smiterxedge..and avoid the forum for a while...

JAMALUDEEN
12-05-2011, 07:43 AM
The truth is your living in the west and calling others Non Pashtuns.
Your a little kid who has just reached puberty.
Spend your time wisely and flirt with cyber girls on the random thoughts thread.
I am not a commie, Iam a Pashtun Nationalist, even from that you would find it difficult to understand common sense and logic.
If you want to propose Islamic teachings upon the Pashtuns, then be a following Muslim and leave the West.
Pray 5 times a day, speak to only males on the net and never listen to music.

You can never do these things because your a born hypocrite.

Afghanistan will remain backward and uncivilised if people like you, the hypocrites living in secular countries but preach the opposite to your native kin.

Like I said, run along to your hole where you belong.

Afghanistan will progress, change and become a modern state. No longer will the Mullahs rule.

You are anti Afghan and Anti Pashtun, as you are just a selfish little pommie wannabe...

You promote atheism and try to push it down peoples throat with your anti islamic rants.. knowing well that majority of Afghans are muslim..

You consider them as backward because they believe in Allah (If you loved your people, you wouldn't disrespect their faith)..

The same is true about LZ as well...

I am a pashtun, i'm also a muslim.. i can speak both of my countries languages... i am not a racist.... I respect the decision that people of afghanistan make about their future.. I do not want others interfering in afghanistans affairs.. especially not commies like you and lz...and the west..

Good luck with your agendas.. you will not suceed though..

Go ahead, make accusations...

thats what you atheists are good at.. nothing more..:hmm: < i'm flirting.

JAMALUDEEN
12-05-2011, 08:00 AM
So what you're saying is that myself, Soldat, osho, Kakarr and many others are not Pashtun despite the fact that we descend from Pashtun tribes, we speak Pashto and we are all Pashtun nationalists? How does one cease to be a Pashtun?

Also, you didn't answer my question. Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Why do Pashtuns say their nation is 6,000 years old? Are they as deluded as me?

By the way, since you're so big on this, I have a few questions for you:

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?

The answer to most of these questions is no. Therefore, you are not a Pashtun. You don't follow Pashtun culture and you don't even have a Sunnah beard (which, according to you, is a part of Pashtun culture, ya habibi). You don't pray five times a day in a mosque and neither do 90% of the rest of the members here.

You are everything, that is the opposite of being a pashtun.

First, Pashtuns are muslims, you are not.
Second, you are an atheist...Atheists don't care about no one else but themselves,(The Selfish Gene) in the west people live more of individualistic life..not a collective life (Pashtun way of life).. the contradictions??? which ones again.. what you are trying is "peh yaw las ki dwa indwaney nesey"..
Third, you disrespect Afghans by disrespecting their religion, and throw around sarcastic remarks..which are not even funny.
Fourth, You will never be accepted in the Afghan society, when you come clean about your beliefs..
Fifth, you consider them backward...and blame everything on their religon..
Sixth, you consider their way of life backward...
Seventh, your hero is a communist...who was the reason by the deaths of so many...
Eighth, it is unreasonable for an atheist to follow "Pashtunwali" which is very old and backward according to you...

i could go on..

but you get the picture..

good attempt at hijacking my thread for your own sick agendas....

JAMALUDEEN
12-05-2011, 08:08 AM
Ao.. da khalak zaan ta Afghanan wayii kho pa fikr ke sam Pakistanyan di. Bal sok da mazhab pa num spakawal ao sahar makhaam mazhab-deen-imaan pa gharra garzawal da Pakistanyano da ttolo na khwakh adatuna di.

Pa sa waja doi nashi zghamalay che bal sok ham khpal soch ao fikr laralay shi. Khudai khabar day che walay mung na dumra kraka kawi.

nahi bhai jan, mein Pakistani nahi hoon, leykan..ekk baath mein app ko batta deta hoon.. muje ek Pakistani par app sey zyada barosa hai...

mein kissi se nafrat nahi karta, leyken woo dosri bhaat hai key mein pakistan ki hokomat aur fouj key khilaf hoon..

Samjey Bachoo..

Abhi jaoo or kahi aur apni nafrat kho kharij karo..

Alchemist
12-05-2011, 08:14 AM
reasonable my foot!

They are just pissed that Jamalludin spoke the truth.
There was no such thing as "pashtun nationalism" until a few decades ago...so does that mean pashtuns are not nationalists by nature? Ridiculous.


Soldout and Zalmay are just trying to Poison the Well because they have been outted as western patsies.

So what is the logic?
Lose Islam = Live comfortably like western people?
Doesn't that just validate what the muslims are suspecting anyway? That the west is targeting Islamic countries simply because they believe in Allah and practice the religion which contradicts the materialistic dogma of the west? So wouldn't that mean that anyone who does practice Islam is in truth rebelling against the corporate greed that turns human life worthless?
Western civilization is in decline, and you expect pashtuns to start shaving their beards and wear jeans? How is that relavent anyway?
If anything those arabs that are turning indian slaves into work monkeys are in truth adopting WESTERN IDEALS...just like how china is. Those Gulf state monarchies are all getting tutored by UK and USA on how to conduct business. All their engineers, architects, project managers, business consultants etc etc come from the west...so if anything you can say they are following your plan..so be happy.

And why are afghans poor and hungry in the first place? Because of communism or mullahs? USSR invaded Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia? And this guy is putting a picture of lenine in his avatar and saying "Well, he was a great man"? Lenine was an authotarian ...who enforced his own views onto others. Who forced people to abandon their religion...just like how the communist leadership in Afghanistan were trying to do - arresting "mullahs", torturing them and killing them. And you dislike the taliban because???

If you examin your own assumptions they don't make any sense. All you have is just empty rhetoric. And when that get's exposed you try your best to poison the well...

graveyardofempires
12-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Aow kana! da khalq pa Western countries shay nastee dee, Western tax paisay kreee, aow meez ta ya yee chee tuse Pashtin na yee aoe tuese Kuffur yeee.

Da dooo nambar khalq deee!

Ar yu Pashtin pa mu zra shay deee, Muslim nor Not, da khalq na gwaree chee Pashtin progress shee, Da afsos khabara da cheee daygh day Pa west shay nust deee aow meeez ta yee cheee kim Pashtin westernized wee aow Secular wee da day Pashtun dushman deee.

Worray warkseee, doo nambar khalq...doday kreee pa West shay aow ma ta ya yeee Afghanistan tu gwanay khalq na goreee!

Pa DI Khan shay, mu sumraaa khalq khizmat mu waka, paisay paghar, toola reeez mu ghat ghat reezay aow UN aid sacks mu khalqoo ta wray ka wal.

Da Jamaludeen aoe GOE cha kareee deee Pashtin pura?
you cant speak pashto so talk in your native english language.

BTW i pay taxes and im sure people such as you live of my tax money.

dreaming is ok

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-05-2011, 01:53 PM
Afghanistan is a country that is so thoroughly prostituted, that it boggles my mind how we have Afghans who think personal beliefs of an individual is a priority.

Dont worry about economics, make sure the men have fist full of chin hair!

This is why our nation is constantly manipulated and prostituted by nations who know better

I can understand animosity towards athiests who come to power, or "liberals" who come to power and enforce their unnatural ways on the Afghans. Ex Khalqis, Ammanullah etc

But here we have atheists like me and Levanaye Zelmaye, who actually dont want to make any changes to the religion of the people. Ive gone on record to say that if I ran the country, I would run it under strict shariah.

I have no allusions about my people, for all my NWA ness and Amir ness, I know my people well

Anyways you dirty rats, keep trashing the educated future of your country, especially those who are against the foreign invasion, against the war, never sold out, never became a jasoos or tarjuman no matter how much money is thrown at him, never stole, never lied, never took what didnt belong to him

Keep trashing me, cuz I enjoy a drink and retired my janimaz. Im sure you two will be doing great things for Afghanistan

:lal10:

Alchemist
12-05-2011, 07:46 PM
^ DUDE!
You are confusing me.
You said you are hanafi. Now you are saying you are atheist.

Why would you want strict sharia in Afghanistan if you don't follow it your self? According to strict Sharia ...your head will be chopped off for apostatizing in Afghanistan.

And by the way, Khalqis were also the "educated atheist future"...been there, done that. And you know that! Education doesn't make you anything special...

I think I've proven that over and over on this forum...everyone here who thinks themselves to be educated are in reality encapsulated by a mirage that distorts their perspective. Afghanistan doesn't need more technocrates and politicians but business minded individuals that understand the capitalisitic nature of the 21st century world. And even then when these types of adventurers go to Afghanistan to establish themselves you have Warlords who bully and harass them, kick them out of the country and take over their successful business. And these warlords they are all for their own pockets instead of helping the community at large.

Nah, B!
I think you have intuitively understood that what Afghanistan needs is a real gun clappin N.I.G.G.A. A hardcore gangstar who would go down to Afghanistan...take over the heroin industry and slowly go into a turf war for more power. Because whoever has power has the ability to change the landscape. A powerful man can do what takes an ordinary man many life times to do. Maybe Batman..because he is already rich, already strong and disciplined enough to over take an army on his own with his crafty ninjitsu.


But to the ordinary Afghan, the All Powerful is Allah. And if a sincere believer prays from the bottom of his heart, Allah will answer his prayer. So they put their faith in Allah because Allah can do anything. The Islamic empire rose over a fortnight...the riches of both rome and persia were given to them when only a generation before their father's couldn't even imagine such a thing happening.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-05-2011, 08:50 PM
^ DUDE!
You are confusing me.
You said you are hanafi. Now you are saying you are atheist.

Why would you want strict sharia in Afghanistan if you don't follow it your self? According to strict Sharia ...your head will be chopped off for apostatizing in Afghanistan.

And by the way, Khalqis were also the "educated atheist future"...been there, done that. And you know that! Education doesn't make you anything special...

I think I've proven that over and over on this forum...everyone here who thinks themselves to be educated are in reality encapsulated by a mirage that distorts their perspective. Afghanistan doesn't need more technocrates and politicians but business minded individuals that understand the capitalisitic nature of the 21st century world. And even then when these types of adventurers go to Afghanistan to establish themselves you have Warlords who bully and harass them, kick them out of the country and take over their successful business. And these warlords they are all for their own pockets instead of helping the community at large.

Nah, B!
I think you have intuitively understood that what Afghanistan needs is a real gun clappin N.I.G.G.A. A hardcore gangstar who would go down to Afghanistan...take over the heroin industry and slowly go into a turf war for more power. Because whoever has power has the ability to change the landscape. A powerful man can do what takes an ordinary man many life times to do. Maybe Batman..because he is already rich, already strong and disciplined enough to over take an army on his own with his crafty ninjitsu.


But to the ordinary Afghan, the All Powerful is Allah. And if a sincere believer prays from the bottom of his heart, Allah will answer his prayer. So they put their faith in Allah because Allah can do anything. The Islamic empire rose over a fortnight...the riches of both rome and persia were given to them when only a generation before their father's couldn't even imagine such a thing happening.

my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers

Alchemist
12-05-2011, 09:38 PM
my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers


So you'd be a hypocrite then?

Do you have any values?

Because if you don't have values, and you are in a position of power, what makes you think you will not end up like the rest of them losers?

Just wondering though...how do you feel about the Parchamies. From what I understand they too thought "bit by bit" was the way to go.

randolph85
12-06-2011, 12:55 AM
funny thing is that when i was a non believer back in the day, i was a hardcore afghan nationalist, despite the fact that i would be rejected by the majority of afghans because of my lack of faith.

non religious afghans need to ask themselves why they proclaim themselves as patriots when they are far more accepted for what they believe in in moscow or washington, than kabul or kandahar.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-06-2011, 06:26 AM
You are everything, that is the opposite of being a pashtun.

First, Pashtuns are muslims, you are not.
Second, you are an atheist...Atheists don't care about no one else but themselves,(The Selfish Gene) in the west people live more of individualistic life..not a collective life (Pashtun way of life).. the contradictions??? which ones again.. what you are trying is "peh yaw las ki dwa indwaney nesey"..
Third, you disrespect Afghans by disrespecting their religion, and throw around sarcastic remarks..which are not even funny.
Fourth, You will never be accepted in the Afghan society, when you come clean about your beliefs..
Fifth, you consider them backward...and blame everything on their religon..
Sixth, you consider their way of life backward...
Seventh, your hero is a communist...who was the reason by the deaths of so many...
Eighth, it is unreasonable for an atheist to follow "Pashtunwali" which is very old and backward according to you...

i could go on..

but you get the picture..

good attempt at hijacking my thread for your own sick agendas....


1) Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Please answer this question. Stop avoiding it.

2) That is your opinion and that is pure subjective speculation. "Atheism" is not a dogma or a belief system. There are conservative and liberal atheists and atheists who subscribe to all sorts of different philosophies of life, ranging from Zen Buddhism to Nordic paganism. Your claim that I am selfish because my beliefs regarding theocracy differ from yours is like saying that if I don't believe in life on Mars, I must be a very generous person.

3) Where have I disrespected Islam?

4) My beliefs are my personal matter which have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

5) I consider my own people backward because my lar ao bar Pashtana are amongst the lowest in the human development index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Low_h uman_development).

6) I consider not sending your daughter to school backwards. I'm sure you'd agree.

7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.

8) What does atheism have to do with Pashtunwali? If anything, Pashtunwali contradicts Islam.

Jamaludeen, you also haven't answered my other questions. If only a Muslim is to be a Pashtun then do you subscribe to other Pashtun practices, thereby making yourself a Pashtun?

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?


If you do not adhere to this dress-code and this Pashtun behaviors, I'm afraid you're not a Pashtun.

The point of this exercise if to expose the ridiculousness of your assertion that a person who was born a Pashtun and later on in his life, changed his beliefs regarding the universe, suddenly and mysteriously stops being a Pashtun.



nahi bhai jan, mein Pakistani nahi hoon, leykan..ekk baath mein app ko batta deta hoon.. muje ek Pakistani par app sey zyada barosa hai...

mein kissi se nafrat nahi karta, leyken woo dosri bhaat hai key mein pakistan ki hokomat aur fouj key khilaf hoon..

Samjey Bachoo..

Abhi jaoo or kahi aur apni nafrat kho kharij karo..


Why?

Alchemist
12-06-2011, 08:01 AM
7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.





And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol

JAMALUDEEN
12-06-2011, 11:06 AM
1) Were there no Pashtuns before 1000AD? Please answer this question. Stop avoiding it.

2) That is your opinion and that is pure subjective speculation. "Atheism" is not a dogma or a belief system. There are conservative and liberal atheists and atheists who subscribe to all sorts of different philosophies of life, ranging from Zen Buddhism to Nordic paganism. Your claim that I am selfish because my beliefs regarding theocracy differ from yours is like saying that if I don't believe in life on Mars, I must be a very generous person.

3) Where have I disrespected Islam?

4) My beliefs are my personal matter which have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else.

5) I consider my own people backward because my lar ao bar Pashtana are amongst the lowest in the human development index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Low_h uman_development).

6) I consider not sending your daughter to school backwards. I'm sure you'd agree.

7) Lenin led millions of people in the overthrow of one of the most cruel kings of his time. He represents the wretched masses and their everlasting struggle. If only he had a bigger beard and an Arabic name, you'd worship him.

8) What does atheism have to do with Pashtunwali? If anything, Pashtunwali contradicts Islam.

Jamaludeen, you also haven't answered my other questions. If only a Muslim is to be a Pashtun then do you subscribe to other Pashtun practices, thereby making yourself a Pashtun?

- Do you wear kamis pardug everyday?
- Do you wear a patka, pakol or shamla?
- Do you have a Sunnah beard?
- Do you pray five times a day in a mosque?
- Do you hold hands with your male friends in a non-sexual way?


If you do not adhere to this dress-code and this Pashtun behaviors, I'm afraid you're not a Pashtun.

The point of this exercise if to expose the ridiculousness of your assertion that a person who was born a Pashtun and later on in his life, changed his beliefs regarding the universe, suddenly and mysteriously stops being a Pashtun.



1.
Of course there were, but did Afghanistan exist prior to 1000 A.D.? Had Islam reached the people of Afghanistan before 1000 A.D.?
It was Islam which united the Pashtun Tribes against the enemies...does the concept of Jihad ring a bell?
Moreover, Afghanistan came to existence, because of the very same reason...If atheism had reached Afghanistan and not Islam, we wouldn't be having this debate ...
on this very forum .. which also wouldn't exist.

So I ask you ones again, how do you relate to Afghanistan? the national Anthem? The Pashtuns? the Flag? The people? You are an atheist, the people are muslims.

You claim to be a Pashtun? and most pashtuns will consider you as a non-pashtun...apostas...traitor... the moment they know of your beliefs.....just like what happened to the commies..
so it is up to you to choose... You can stand in the corner, and try to hold two watermelons (Being a Pashtun and an atheist.) with one hand...or you could repent ..and be one of them.


This Tajik Kaka tells me, that you cannot be a pashtun...without being a muslim.. He was a journalist in Afghanistan...around the times of the soviets. Real talker..full of knowledge and wisdom...
He has seen it all...

2. Yes, you are selfish. Pashtuns are known to be religious people, and you disrespect all of them by choosing to be an atheist.... You are also being selfish towards your family...
especially in regard to their honour.... Will they feel proud that their son has become a atheist?

There is so much wrong with Atheism.... you probably don't even care about all this..as you choose not to care..which is being selfish again.

3. You do this all the time, with your little sarcastic remarks...

4. You make fun of Islam.. you call it backwards.. and you think people who follow islam are not smart. Your beliefs are not so ..personal anymore.
If your beliefs are a personal matter to you, then why do you even bother defending it? not so personal anymore..

5. Foriegn interference in Afghanistan has caused most of the problems we face today, and instead of countering the enemy, you have adopted their ideas, beliefs, values, way of life.
A real Pashtuns sticks to his beliefs, values.. way of life.. You have given up hope on your people. yet still you want to be a pashtun and adopt western ideass, beliefs, values...
Again, trying to hold two watermelons with one hand..


6. I have nothing against this.. Education is very important for Muslims and is encouraged.

7. Your hero should be Ahmad Shah Baba, and all the other Afghan Heroes... Who united the Pashtun tribes and other ethnic groups against the foriegn oppressors...
Lenin was not a muslim, Lenin was not a pashtun.. Lenin did not rule Afghanistan.. Why should you care? You seem to be fond of foriegn heroes more than Pashtun Heroes.
I do not worship our heroes... I have respect for them for what they have done for us..but thats all.

8. Atheists believe in reason..logic... the rational mind, and there is nothing reasonable about Tribalism ...or pashtunwali... looking through their lens.

Imagine, an atheist whos honour has been challenged..and there he goes.. picks up a sword and goes to kill his enemy... lol.. not a rational choice....

SO WHY WOULD AN ATHEIST HOLD ON TO A CULTURE..THAT ENDANGERS HIS LIFE..WHY SHOULD HE SACRIFICE HIS ONLY LIFE...WHY SHOULD HE CARE ABOUT THE HONOUR OF HIS FELLOW PASHTUNS.? THERE IS NO HELL OR HEAVEN..ANYWAYS..

Its Survival of the fittest BRO..
You can't be Mad Bro..
You got to be smart Bro..Think smart bro.!!!
If you be Pashtun bro, then you have to defend your honor bro..which may as well get you killed bro...
If you be Pashtun bro, you have to protect those..who take refuge in your home bro...which may get you killed again bro..








and the last bit of your post...

These are dumb questions, no offence. So, a westerner who wears Kamis Partug, puts on a patka, grows a sunnah beard, goes to a mosque and prays...hold hands with friends in non-sexual way...should all be considered pashtuns too.
These are minor issues..

You cannot be a pashtun, just because you are muslim.
You cannot be a pashtun, without being a muslim. Get it?




Why?

kyu ki app jhoot bohot boltey hoon.... or hamarey imaan ka mazaq bi bohot orahtey hoon..

Aur is liye, key app Muslims nahi hoon. Tumey kya lagta hai..agar koi kafir mujhe kuch khaney ko deta hai or kehta hai key is mein sooar ka ghosht nahi hain..to mein os ka yaqeen karlo..

Kabhi Nahi..

JAMALUDEEN
12-06-2011, 11:12 AM
And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol

I think, he is an atheist for the wrong reason....

critical...objective thinking is a must for atheists (Well, thats what most of them claim).... and which he has yet ...again failed to show.

He doesn't hate Jews..who have beards..
Westerners also have beards...he doesn't hate them..
Soldout Khamir used to have a beard.. and probably has a muslim name...yet again he doesn't hate him..

He has a grudge against Muslims for some reason...

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-06-2011, 03:44 PM
So you'd be a hypocrite then?

Do you have any values?

Because if you don't have values, and you are in a position of power, what makes you think you will not end up like the rest of them losers?

Just wondering though...how do you feel about the Parchamies. From what I understand they too thought "bit by bit" was the way to go.

My values would be an honest clean effective govt and a strong nation. what i need to do to achieve that is irrelevant

The Parchamis are tarnished by their affiliation with foreign occupiers

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 07:43 AM
1.
Of course there were, but did Afghanistan exist prior to 1000 A.D.?

So what was the religion of Pashtun people before 1000AD?

If the mark of a Pashtun is that they don't change their beliefs no matter what, why did they change theirs?

If Pashtuns shouldn't adopt the religion of foreign conquerors, why did Buddhist, Hindu and pagan Pashtuns adopt the religion of their Arab and Turkish conquerors?

I went through the rest of your post but it was mostly rabble rant and hence didn't merit any sort of response. It's mostly stuff like "atheists should do this and this and believe so and so" whereas I don't think I should do this and this and believe so and so, so stop putting words in my mouth.

By the way, this is a serious question - what's your age? Please be honest. The last part of your post suggests that you cannot be over 16. I could be wrong by a few months though.


And if he had a beard and an arabic name you'd stop worshipping him?


lol


I worship Lenin? What is it with people thinking on my behalf? Am I that special?

And what part of "people's religion doesn't matter to me" do you find so hard to understand? I couldn't care less if Lenin was a Hanbali imaam and expert-level muezin.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 08:29 AM
So what was the religion of Pashtun people before 1000AD?

If the mark of a Pashtun is that they don't change their beliefs no matter what, why did they change theirs?

If Pashtuns shouldn't adopt the religion of foreign conquerors, why did Buddhist, Hindu and pagan Pashtuns adopt the religion of their Arab and Turkish conquerors?

I went through the rest of your post but it was mostly rabble rant and hence didn't merit any sort of response.

By the way, this is a serious question - what's your age? Please be honest. The last part of your post suggests that you cannot be over 16. I could be wrong by a few months though.

your little brain cannot digest the truth...no wonder you get down to little ad hominems and you think.. you have achieved much. You are definitely a lewanaye.

Now let me ask you a question? Did your tribe exist before 1000 AD? .. Isn't it is Qais Abdur Rashid.. that all Pashtuns tribes trace back their lineage too.. Didn't he accept Islam? LOL..If he was a muslim.. then his sons must have been muslims..and all his sons must have passed the religion down to their sons... Isn't that how religion and culture is passed down?

Even, if you can show us some tribes that were pagan..hindu.. It still doesn't change the fact that we are all descended of Qais Abdur Rashid...who was a Muslim... Durranis..Hotakis..Kakars...MOhammadzai.. can all trace back their lineage to him..

It doesn't matter what pashtuns were before 1000 AD.. if it does..then the onus is on you to prove and show us which of the tribes that exist now.. existed back then.. and whether they were pagan.. hindu..kafir..

See, I just proved that you and soldout khamir are both...deviant outkasts..who are social rejects in Afghan/Pashtun Society..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 08:38 AM
my background is Hanafi Sunni, but I dont believe in religion. Im a sooooch kafir

I advocate strict Islamic law for Afghanistan as that is what is needed to

- reinforce law and order
- unite various ethnicities and tribes under one identity
- reclaim authentic interpretations of Islam from the jahiliya of the Taliban
- allow legitimacy for the Afghan govt
- convince militants to give up the guns

Religion is a tool to control the masses. I would use Islam to make sure everyone gets in line.

Of course, if I was leader, I wouldnt make it be publicly known that I was a non believer

Yes, Afghanistan needs a gun clapper of the highest order. I disagree with your assessment of education, although judging from the looting behaviour of most of the "technocrats" who currently make up the afghan govt I dont fault you for your pessimism

Afghanistan cannot be pushed into modernity, it needs to be slightly nudged bit by bit. Thats why the Khalqis and Amanullah were useless losers

your views sound as dumb as a murderer who wishes.. capital punishment to be reinstated for murder....in a western country

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 08:46 AM
your little brain cannot digest the truth...no wonder you get down to little ad hominems and you think.. you have achieved much. You are definitely a lewanaye.

Now let me ask you a question? Did your tribe exist before 1000 AD? .. Isn't it is Qais Abdur Rashid.. that all Pashtuns tribes trace back their lineage too.. Didn't he accept Islam? LOL..If he was a muslim.. then his sons must have been muslims..and all his sons must have passed the religion down to their sons... Isn't that how religion and culture is passed down?

Even, if you can show us some tribes that were pagan..hindu.. It still doesn't change the fact that we are all descended of Qais Abdur Rashid...who was a Muslim... Durranis..Hotakis..Kakars...MOhammadzai.. can all trace back their lineage to him..

It doesn't matter what pashtuns were before 1000 AD.. if it does..then the onus is on you to prove and show us which of the tribes that exist now.. existed back then.. and whether they were pagan.. hindu..kafir..

See, I just proved that you and soldout khamir are both...deviant outkasts..who are social rejects in Afghan/Pashtun Society..


And once again, you display for all to see your profound lack of knowledge.

The Qais story is as much a myth as the one that Pashtuns are the ancestors of Khalid bin Walid or Ali ibn Abu Talib and that the moon is made out of cheese. The Middle-Eastern "J" halogroup is rare amongst Pashtuns, who are predominantly R1a1 and hence not Semitic in origin. Most Pashtun tribes are descendants of the tribes that came down from Central Asia into India, from 1000BC until well during the period of the Delhi Sultanate (the last major tribe to descend from Central Asia into Afghanistan were the Khiljis or Ghiljis, as they are known today). The Abdalis came down during the era of the White Huns, which was again, one of the many ages when hordes of tribes from nomadic Central Asia swept into the plains of India and Persia for loot and to settle.

In fact, in ~500BC, Herodotus wrote about the tribes of Packtya and the Apridai people, both of whom were warrior-people that lived on the frontiers of India.

All of this proves that for thousands of years, Pashtuns were pagans, Hindus and Buddhists. The archaeological evidence is another matter altogether.

Seriously, read a book. Or better still, go back to the Random Thoughts thread where you belong and flirt with the other 12 year old girls over there and show your Afghan-ness and Muslim-ness to them.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 08:55 AM
And once again, you display for all to see your profound lack of knowledge.

The Qais story is as much a myth as the one that Pashtuns are the ancestors of Khalid bin Walid or Ali ibn Abu Talib and that the moon is made out of cheese. The Middle-Eastern "J" halogroup is rare amongst Pashtuns, who are predominantly R1a1 and hence not Semitic in origin. Most Pashtun tribes are descendants of the tribes that came down from Central Asia into India, from 1000BC until well during the period of the Delhi Sultanate (the last major tribe to descend from Central Asia into Afghanistan were the Khiljis or Ghiljis, as they are known today). The Abdalis came down during the era of the White Huns, which was again, one of the many ages when hordes of tribes from nomadic Central Asia swept into the plains of India and Persia for loot and to settle.

In fact, in ~500BC, Herodotus wrote about the tribes of Packtya and the Apridai people, both of whom were warrior-people that lived on the frontiers of India.

All of this proves that for thousands of years, Pashtuns were pagans, Hindus and Buddhists. The archaeological evidence is another matter altogether.

Seriously, read a book. Or better still, go back to the Random Thoughts thread where you belong and flirt with the other 12 year old girls over there and show your Afghan-ness and Muslim-ness to them.

According to LZ... the historian..the kafir historian.

12 years old girls even come here, I didn't know that? You must know all about them... you pedophile...

Every time you bark.. it further proves my point..that you are a non-pashtun.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were into incest...as well

since God does not exist for you, and no one is watching ;)

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:00 AM
Now answer this to me..

How do you atheist kafirs..who have no morals..who prey on young 12 years old girls..on pashtunforums..relate to Pashtuns/Afghanistan/National Anthem/Flag and our way of life?

I have answered you LZ..now it is time.. you answer us..

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:07 AM
According to LZ... the historian..the kafir historian.

12 years old girls even come here, I didn't know that? You must know all about them... you pedophile...

Every time you bark.. it further proves my point..that you are a non-pashtun.


You're the kafir here, hiding the truth. You presented me with a myth and I presented you with a verifiable historical narrative and since you cannot respond to it, you reply with another childish and meaningless post.

The fact is that Pashtuns changed their religion probably many times over in the past and you have just been proven wrong quite comprehensively.

Your sarcasm detection meter is also broken, apparently. "12 year old" was not meant to be taken literally.


I wouldn't be surprised if you were into incest...as well

since God does not exist for you, and no one is watching ;)


So if tomorrow, you find out that God doesn't exist, is that what you'll do? I'm sorry but the very question reflects the level of your thinking. It's not just immature, it's also disgusting to even think along those lines. You should be ashamed of yourself.

So is there anything else you'd like to say here before you return to flirting with kids your age in the Random Thoughts thread?


Now answer this to me..

How do you atheist kafirs..who have no morals..who prey on young 12 years old girls..on pashtunforums..relate to Pashtuns/Afghanistan/National Anthem/Flag and our way of life?

I have answered you LZ..now it is time.. you answer us..


So I suppose when one has been proven wrong, he resorts to trolling...

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:13 AM
You're the kafir here, hiding the truth. You presented me with a myth and I presented you with a verifiable historical narrative and since you cannot respond to it, you reply with another childish and meaningless post.

The fact is that Pashtuns changed their religion probably many times over in the past and you have just been proven wrong quite comprehensively.

Your sarcasm detection meter is also broken, apparently. "12 year old" was not meant to be taken literally.





So if tomorrow, you find out that God doesn't exist, is that what you'll do? I'm sorry but the very question reflects the level of your thinking. It's not just immature, it's also disgusting to even think along those lines. You should be ashamed of yourself.

So is there anything else you'd like to say here before you return to flirting with kids your age in the Random Thoughts thread?

You are just like smitir, you are both dishonest....

hahahahahahahahhaa

you accuse me of flirting with 12 years old..and i proved you wrong that i didn't.. and also proved that it is actually you who likes to perv on 12 years olds...

you are just trying to save a face.

Have some shame...oh wait.. you are an atheist.. atheists do not believe in shame.. as shame is the killer of opportunity as some would put it.. another non-pashtun..non-islamic trait that you got..

the rest of your post is irrelevant.. you are a traitor....just like the commies.. with no shame...

disgusting..

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 09:18 AM
Jamaludeena

prey yee da bechara khatem dey.

i feel sorry for such people who will never be accepted as pashtuns.
instead of accepting the truth they try to change the history for their benefit and agenda.LOL

wesharmegey pe dwaro jahanuno.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:20 AM
you accuse me of flirting with 12 years old..and i proved you wrong that i didn't.. and also proved that it is actually you who likes to perv on 12 years olds...


You misunderstood me.

You said that Pashtuns are Muslims only and non-Muslims cannot be Pashtuns. And then I said that Pashtuns have been non-Muslims for thousands of years - in fact, they have been non-Muslim longer than they have been Muslims. They were worshiping stones and rocks only 1000 years ago.

You also said that Pashtuns don't change their religion. Then I pointed out to you that Pashtuns changed their religions from Buddhism to Islam and before that, from nomadic paganism to Buddhism and/or Hinduism.

Then you said that Pashtuns don't follow the ways of their conquerors and then I showed you that Pashtuns have adopted the religion and partial-language of their Arab and Turkish conquerors.

So the premise of your thread that Pashtun = Muslim has been defeated. Please don't derail the discussion at hand by posting childish and out-of-context remarks.



Have some shame...oh wait.. you are an atheist.. atheists do not believe in shame.. as shame is the killer of opportunity as some would put it.. another non-pashtun..non-islamic trait that you got..

Another straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) "argument"? Will you ever grow up?

Michin Khel
12-08-2011, 09:23 AM
Jamaludeena

prey yee da bechara khatem dey.

i feel sorry for such people who will never be accepted as pashtuns.
instead of accepting the truth they try to change the history for their benefit and agenda.LOL

wesharmegey pe dwaro jahanuno.

Its true that athiests can never be accepted as part of pashtun society but i think they have right to live among us as human beings

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:24 AM
You misunderstood me.

You said that Pashtuns are Muslims only and non-Muslims cannot be Pashtuns. And then I said that Pashtuns have been non-Muslims for thousands of years - in fact, they have been non-Muslim longer than they have been Muslims. They were worshiping stones and rocks only 1000 years ago.

You also said that Pashtuns don't change their religion. Then I pointed out to you that Pashtuns changed their religions from Buddhism to Islam and before that, from nomadic paganism to Buddhism and/or Hinduism.

Then you said that Pashtuns don't follow the ways of their conquerors and then I showed you that Pashtuns have adopted the religion and partial-language of their Arab and Turkish conquerors.

So the premise of your thread that Pashtun = Muslim has been defeated. Please don't derail the discussion at hand by posting childish and out-of-context remarks.

Another straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) "argument"? Will you ever grow up?

Pashtun tribes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_tribes)

Something for you from wikipedia.... you seem to be ignorant of our past.

You still haven't answered my question.... please do so your utmost honesty.... i encourage you to be honest one time, you will feel good.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Its true that athiests can never be accepted as part of pashtun society but i think they have right to live among us as human beings

Their existence and views do more social harm than good. Just look at what happened to Afghanistan, when the commies came... they can belong in sindh..and punjab, if you want?

To be honest, they should go become part of communities, who share the same views as them, and stop perverting the people of Afghanistan with their wicked views.

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 09:26 AM
Its true that athiests can never be accepted as part of pashtun society but i think they have right to live among us as human beings
but as we can see they arent acting like human beings but they want us all to follow their fitna.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Its true that athiests can never be accepted as part of pashtun society but i think they have right to live among us as human beings

Yeah, people whose beliefs deviate from what is considered the norm are often shunned during their time.

Take Pir Rokhan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_Roshan) for example.


Read the topic of this thread.. dumb ass..

It is actually you who is trolling... you atheists will never answer this as you know... you will be proven as non-pashtun..non-afghan..and traitors...

Answer me.. have some shame...you little pedophile..oh wait you are an atheist.. i forgot.


Perhaps all of this "you are not a Pashtun!!11!" is coming from some sort of insecurity on your own part?

In any case, the language and tone in that post is anything but decent and decency is the first attribute that one relates with Pashtuns.

Your straw man statements aren't helping your cause.


Jamaludeena

prey yee da bechara khatem dey.

i feel sorry for such people who will never be accepted as pashtuns.
instead of accepting the truth they try to change the history for their benefit and agenda.LOL

wesharmegey pe dwaro jahanuno.


Perhaps you would like to correct the little historical narrative I posted and specify exactly where and how I was wrong. That would be more beneficial than this ranting.

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 09:38 AM
bechara leka che pe reshtay leewanay shoo.

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:39 AM
Pashtun tribes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_tribes)

Something for you from wikipedia.... you seem to be ignorant of our past.

You still haven't answered my question.... please do so your utmost honesty.... i encourage you to be honest one time, you will feel good.

Jamal, you just embarrassed yourself again. Did you even care to read what was in the link that you sent me? Here's what it says:

Traditionally, according to folklore, all Pashtuns are said to have descended, at the time of the introduction of Islam, from the tribe of Qais Abdur Rashid, who died in 662 CE, and his three sons: Saraban, Batan and Ghurghusht.

Folklore: a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs.

The Qais story is as mythical as the dragon that St.George slew in his folklore.


And which question? The question about what I feel about the religious language on Pashtun flags and what not? I've already answered it - I'm indifferent to it. I couldn't have cared less if it were the the Ankh of Tutankhamen on them.

Now please be a little serious here and answer my retorts to your claims. Why have Pashtuns changed their religion so often? Why have they adopted the religion of a people who conquered and humiliated them?

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:42 AM
Jamal, you just embarrassed yourself again. Did you even care to read what was in the link that you sent me? Here's what it says:

Traditionally, according to folklore, all Pashtuns are said to have descended, at the time of the introduction of Islam, from the tribe of Qais Abdur Rashid, who died in 662 CE, and his three sons: Saraban, Batan and Ghurghusht.

Folklore: a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs.

The Qais story is as mythical as the dragon that St.George slew in his folklore.


And which question? The question about what I feel about the religious language on Pashtun flags and what not? I've already answered it - I'm indifferent to it. I couldn't have cared less if it were the the Ankh of Tutankhamen on them.

Now please be a little serious here and answer my retorts to your claims. Why have Pashtuns changed their religion so often? Why have they adopted the religion of a people who conquered and humiliated them?

so this is all wrong.. all that has been taught in Afghanistan is wrong.... my father who studied there is wrong..my uncle is wrong... the books my uncle has are all wrong...

they are all a bunch of made up stories...

LOL

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:45 AM
Your fetish for 12 years old girls does not save you in this discussion... I'm sure.. at times.. you and soldout khamir share your experiences over the phone..

Very Manly and Pashtun.

BTW.. the phone thing is again proven as he also accused me of flirting with 12 years old..and when i proved him wrong.. He ran away..

typical of atheists..with no ghairat

as osho stated.. wtf is ghairat..its no use


I didn't think I'd have to explain this to you.

As opposed to myself and Soldat (and some other serious members on this board), you were one of those people who would spend most of the time in stuff like the "Random Thoughs thread" where a whole bunch of teenaged kids used to make hundreds of useless posts about virtually nothing.

And hence the 12-year-old reference, which was meant as an insult of sorts.

Now please act as though you're older than 12 so that I don't have to spoon-feed you like this.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:46 AM
Watch...He is going to say, Afghan historians are all liars....and these books do not exist..

because John Peterson..of whom he read a book..says so...

John Peterson is very credible...Peterson is actually an afghan tribe..(Just to give it some credibility).

I cannot take lz serious anymore..he has lost it..all the respect... intellectual dishonest fraud..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:48 AM
I didn't think I'd have to explain this to you.

As opposed to myself and Soldat (and some other serious members on this board), you were one of those people who would spend most of the time in stuff like the "Random Thoughs thread" where a whole bunch of teenaged kids used to make hundreds of useless posts about virtually nothing.

And hence the 12-year-old reference, which was meant as an insult of sorts.

Now please act as though you're older than 12 so that I don't have to spoon-feed you like this.

you said...12 years old girls...

Luffy was in random thoughts as well.. so was adamyousafzai..graveyardofempire...admin khan.. ayub..and many other male users...

You said Flirting with 12 years old... which makes you a liar...

you are now a lying dishonest intellectual fraud..

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:49 AM
so this is all wrong.. all that has been taught in Afghanistan is wrong.... my father who studied there is wrong..my uncle is wrong... the books my uncle has are all wrong...

they are all a bunch of made up stories...

LOL

Yes, they're all mythical accounts without any scientific/genetic, historical, archaeological or linguistic evidence whatsoever. If you have any proof regarding the authenticity of the Qais account, Pashtuns Forums would be very grateful to see it.

In fact, the genetic evidence suggests something completely opposite.

It's a matter of common sense, too. How would a Semitic man's sons single-handedly create an Indo-Iranian language?

You're yet to answer my questions:

Why have Pashtuns changed their religion so often? Why have they adopted the religion of a people who conquered and humiliated them?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Watch...He is going to say, Afghan historians are all liars....and these books do not exist..

because John Peterson..of whom he read a book..says so...

John Peterson is very credible...Peterson is actually an afghan tribe..(Just to give it some credibility).

I cannot take lz serious anymore..he has lost it..all the respect... intellectual dishonest fraud..

If you don't believe me, you can ask Admin Khan or anyone else about the authenticity of the Qais account.

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 09:56 AM
lol jamalamalamaladeen just got handled in this thread

lol @ anyone believing the qais abdul rashid story in 2011


so 5000 bc when herodatus went to our areas and spoke of the land of Pactya and the Paktues people, that wasnt us right.

we magically showed up when Islam came right?



and if back home we didnt pounce on anyone with a rusty knife who didnt think like us, alot more people would eventually abandon their faith

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 09:58 AM
your views sound as dumb as a murderer who wishes.. capital punishment to be reinstated for murder....in a western country

youre right my views are dumb. so dumb. i wish i had smart views, like a woman was created from a mans rib and back in the days a 500 yr old man gathered 2 of each animal to hide in a boat


and 1300 years ago a man flew a horse to heaven

i wish i was smart like u

:lal10:

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 09:59 AM
You are an intellectual fraud. When you are cornered, you make accusations.. there is no point in arguing with you... If you do want me to discuss this further..then answer me the questions that i proposed...

Otherwise, it is a proven fact.. that you are a non-pashtun..non-afghan. atheist.. social reject. and this information is authentic..

If you do not believe me, then ask graveyardofempires or alchemist.. they will tell you the same.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:00 AM
lol jamalamalamaladeen just got handled in this thread

lol @ anyone believing the qais abdul rashid story in 2011


so 5000 bc when herodatus went to our areas and spoke of the land of Pactya and the Paktues people, that wasnt us right.

we magically showed up when Islam came right?



and if back home we didnt pounce on anyone with a rusty knife who didnt think like us, alot more people would eventually abandon their faith


http://www.promotionalpromo.com/Upfiles/Prod_o/200817007706.jpg

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 10:01 AM
You are an intellectual fraud. When you are cornered, you make accusations.. there is no point in arguing with you... If you do want me to discuss this further..then answer me the questions that i proposed...

Otherwise, it is a proven fact.. that you are a non-pashtun..non-afghan. atheist.. social reject. and this information is authentic..

If you do not believe me, then ask graveyardofempires or alchemist.. they will tell you the same.

ahahahaha

my ancestor who spoke an archaic pashto and worshipped rocks was pashtun, my father who did hajj 3 times and prayed 5 times daily was a pashtun, and my jack daniels sippin, damsel seducing sooooooch kafir ass is pashtun too

kakar>musakhel>nekzai

u mad faccot?

Levanaye Zalmaye
12-08-2011, 10:02 AM
lol jamalamalamaladeen just got handled in this thread

lol @ anyone believing the qais abdul rashid story in 2011


so 5000 bc when herodatus went to our areas and spoke of the land of Pactya and the Paktues people, that wasnt us right.

we magically showed up when Islam came right?



and if back home we didnt pounce on anyone with a rusty knife who didnt think like us, alot more people would eventually abandon their faith


To be honest, when he started the thread, I thought he genuinely wanted to know how Pashtuns with no belief or Pashtuns indifferent to belief felt about the fact that most Pashtuns and hence their state, too, are very religious in nature.

As events unfolded, however, I realized that this is just a "hey, you no likey my beliefs, I no likey you, I now meany to you" thread. But it's even more difficult to reason with someone who believes mythical accounts are historical facts because his daddy said so...

Oh, almost forgot - I've heard from good sources that the Amir did not perform ablution before his evening prayers today. Therefore, I hereby deduct 10 points from his Pashtun-ness. 10 more points and he falls down to the level of "Hazara".

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:06 AM
ahahahaha

my ancestor who spoke an archaic pashto and worshipped rocks was pashtun, my father who did hajj 3 times and prayed 5 times daily was a pashtun, and my jack daniels sippin, damsel seducing sooooooch kafir ass is pashtun too

kakar>musakhel>nekzai

u mad faccot?

I'm not a faccot..

You know why..because
I don't listen to NWA.. when you do listen to NWA a lot.. you are more likely to end up in a prison...

where you can become the prison f a g..which you have.. i am sure.. You must follow your role model easy e
;)

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:07 AM
To be honest, when he started the thread, I thought he genuinely wanted to know how Pashtuns with no belief or Pashtuns indifferent to belief felt about the fact that most Pashtuns and hence their state, too, are very religious in nature.

As events unfolded, however, I realized that this is just a "hey, you no likey my beliefs, I no likey you, I now meany to you" thread. But it's even more difficult to reason with someone who believes mythical accounts are historical facts because his daddy said so...

Oh, almost forgot - I've heard from good sources that the Amir did not perform ablution before his evening prayers today. Therefore, I hereby deduct 10 points from his Pashtun-ness. 10 more points and he falls down to the level of "Hazara".

You are not being honest... you racist prick..

What do you have against hazaras? Unlike you..they are very hard working people..

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 10:09 AM
I'm not a faccot..

You know why..because
I don't listen to NWA.. when you do listen to NWA a lot.. you are more likely to end up in a prison...

where you can become the prison f a g..which you have.. i am sure.. You must follow your role model easy e
;)

U gotta love how jamalamaladeen and graveyard both are hip hop fans and seem to know all the names but use it against me as an argument

The amount of inferiority complex and insecurity coming from u is ridicolous

Be a man. The Amir show you how

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 10:10 AM
Lol @ this dude coming from the "land if cupcakes"

Ahahshahahahahaha

How did i miss that?

Awww lawd this is too easy

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 10:11 AM
lol
look at these alien atheists

becharagan

they think their fancy beliefs will eb accepted to Pashtuns.

you people are not Pashtuns,we call you shame on the name of Pashtuns..

jamaludeena wrora preda da leewaney,doy jack daniels depara zaan emaan aw qaam kharsawey.

now that the identity of Pashtuns is the Truth/Islam
what are you guys going to do about it?

btw i hope you guys dont open your mouths as you do here in Afghan lands infront of people.

that will be as stupid as calling yourself an atheist pukhtun

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:11 AM
U gotta love how jamalamaladeen and graveyard both are hip hop fans and seem to know all the names but use it against me as an argument

The amount of inferiority complex and insecurity coming from u is ridicolous

Be a man. The Amir show you how

somehow this NWA tool..who has been a prison prag...for some big gigantic black guy named tyron..

thinks

NWA = Hiphop..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Lol @ this dude coming from the "land if cupcakes"

Ahahshahahahahaha

How did i miss that?

Awww lawd this is too easy

another dumb response...

you guys still cannot counter my argument.. just a bunch of rotten apples..that we do not need..

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Pashtuns = muslims

atheist "pashtun" = an oxymoron term

graveyardofempires
12-08-2011, 10:16 AM
Jamaludeen a
these guys are living in madman's reality.

i honestly tell you guys that the way you guys are behaving an dtalking is opposite to us and you will never be accepted by us Pashtuns=muslims.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Jamaludeen a
these guys are living in madman's reality.

i honestly tell you guys that the way you guys are behaving an dtalking is opposite to us and you will never be accepted by us Pashtuns=muslims.

I guess, its the internet, and he probably knows that he can get away with it..

If this LZ tool..accused a pashtun or even a tajik or hazara of flirting a 12 years old girl...in real life He would receive the beating of his life.

He just cannot accept the fact that he is not just disliked by pashtuns, but hazaras, tajeks as well..

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:24 AM
Jamal you got owned. Simple as. Accept it.

Genetic research as disowned this mythical non sense about Pashtuns being related to Qais Rashid. The whole account of Qais Rashid and the Bani Israel myth came about during the Mughal times to show the Pashtuns as some what a holy race.

Now, our Pushto language has noooooooo relation to Hebrew nor Arabic, our words sound different and our customs are way way way different.

Even Arab traveller Ibn Battuta stated there was a "Persian tribe of Afghans" way before any mention of the whole Qais non sense.

Jamal I feel sorry for you and Wish to save you from this non sense. Its become some what of a trend by Muslims to claim some root with the original Muslims of Arabia or the Israelite Jews. Take the example of the Syeds or the Punjabi Ghilanis, the Ghilanis claim to be directly related to the Arabs of Baghdad but they live in Karachi and look like Sea gypies of Tamil Nadoo.

Qais Rashid is a myth and its as simple as that, those who want to refute this, please do provide evience both genetic and logical.

Karachi and Toramana have posted on a lot of threads proof that Pashtuns are Western Euroasian, we have more in common with the people of Centra Asia or Western Asia, we do not have holy Jewish blood nor Arab blood.

Pashtuns are not semitic peoples our language is not one of the semitic languages.

I sent my wifes DNA sample to a well known research company, just for the fun of it, and it turned out she has roots from Eastern Europe, no wonder her family has all green eyes, I have also done mine too, but I wish to not disclose my results to petty little trolls on this forum who will use it agaisnt me, but my results came out very shocking and I am quite proud of it. Both me and my wife come from Waziristan, and we are not semitic by blood nor related to Palestinians or other semitic people, our results matched a lot of other samples taken from parts of Afghanistan close to Iran.

Anyway....Jamal none of your family has done research nor read books on this topic, you are just using them to make your statement look stronger which it doesnt.

Pashtuns were Pagans before Islam's arrival, no Pashtun was a Jew and neither did they follow any religion related to the ancient israelites.

As a matter of fact, this Qais myth is very discriminating against the Karlani Pashtuns i.e Maseed,Wazir,Zadran,Zazai,Khattak,Bannuchi and many others, as according to this myth, Karlan was a orphan Qais picked up from the road hence they are not real Pashtuns.

Give it up bro!

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:25 AM
Jamal you got owned. Simple as. Accept it.

Genetic research as disowned this mythical non sense about Pashtuns being related to Qais Rashid. The whole account of Qais Rashid and the Bani Israel myth came about during the Mughal times to show the Pashtuns as some what a holy race.

Now, our Pushto language has noooooooo relation to Hebrew nor Arabic, our words sound different and our customs are way way way different.

Even Arab traveller Ibn Battuta stated there was a "Persian tribe of Afghans" way before any mention of the whole Qais non sense.

Jamal I feel sorry for you and Wish to save you from this non sense. Its become some what of a trend by Muslims to claim some root with the original Muslims of Arabia or the Israelite Jews. Take the example of the Syeds or the Punjabi Ghilanis, the Ghilanis claim to be directly related to the Arabs of Baghdad but they live in Karachi and look like Sea gypies of Tamil Nadoo.

Qais Rashid is a myth and its as simple as that, those who want to refute this, please do provide evience both genetic and logical.

Karachi and Toramana have posted on a lot of threads proof that Pashtuns are Western Euroasian, we have more in common with the people of Centra Asia or Western Asia, we do not have holy Jewish blood nor Arab blood.

Pashtuns are not semitic peoples our language is not one of the semitic languages.

I sent my wifes DNA sample to a well known research company, just for the fun of it, and it turned out she has roots from Eastern Europe, no wonder her family has all green eyes, I have also done mine too, but I wish to not disclose my results to petty little trolls on this forum who will use it agaisnt me, but my results came out very shocking and I am quite proud of it. Both me and my wife come from Waziristan, and we are not semitic by blood nor related to Palestinians or other semitic people, our results matched a lot of other samples taken from parts of Afghanistan close to Iran.

Anyway....Jamal none of your family has done research nor read books on this topic, you are just using them to make your statement look stronger which it doesnt.

Pashtuns were Pagans before Islam's arrival, no Pashtun was a Jew and neither did they follow any religion related to the ancient israelites.

As a matter of fact, this Qais myth is very discriminating against the Karlani Pashtuns i.e Maseed,Wazir,Zadran,Zazai,Khattak,Bannuchi and many others, as according to this myth, Karlan was a orphan Qais picked up from the road hence they are not real Pashtuns.

Give it up bro!

unlike you and lz.. they studied in Afghanistan in an afghan university...before the war...so chew on that... their information is more authentic..than anything coming from atheist commies...

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:39 AM
Jamal in regards to your childish comment referring to others as Intellectual Frauds, let me remind you that a person with a sane mind can refute you very easily by using Islamic sources. Right, let me be that sane minded person to refute you.

I will use a source from the book titled History of Afghanistan by Abdul Sabahuddin. In his book, he sources the writings of Al Biruni. Al Biruni, was a well known Islamic explorer from Persia, who is widely respected by historians both Non Muslim and Muslim.

from the book he writes the following:-

"it is surmised from the writings of Al Biruni that Pashtuns and/or other local afghans
in Eastern Afghanistan had not been completely converted. Al Biruni, writing in
Tarikh al Hind, also alluded to the Eastern Afghans as neither Muslim nor Hindu,
but simply Afghans, which may mean that the local population of Eastern Afghanistan
were Pagans and animists not unlike the kafirs of Kalash prior to the coming of
Islamic invaders"

this was taken from page 36 of Abdul Sabahuddin's book titled History of Afghanistan.

I hope this claries that Pashtuns/Afghans were never mentioned as Jews nor Arabs by any respected authority at the time.

Abū al-Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad al-Bīrūnī

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Ray%E1%B8%A5%C4%81n_al-B%C4%ABr%C5%ABn%C4%AB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Ray%E1%B8%A5%C4%81n_al-B%C4%ABr%C5%ABn%C4%AB)

case closed.

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:42 AM
unlike you and lz.. they studied in Afghanistan in an afghan university...before the war...so chew on that... their information is more authentic..than anything coming from atheist commies...

Another childish response. I don't know if your uncle smoked too much hash as a student but the only source they have is the non sense written by that mughal era person.

I don't see any point in trying to educate a little kid like you who brings communism into a debate on Pashtun origins.

Go on ask yourself, if Pashtuns came from Qais Rashid, then wouldnt we all be speaking Hebrew or Arabic, and why is it that Pushto is related to Avesta and Farsi, and if we do support your deluded childish claim, then that would mean we adaopted the Language of PASHTO from WHOM?

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Jamal in regards to your childish comment referring to others as Intellectual Frauds, let me remind you that a person with a sane mind can refute you very easily by using Islamic sources. Right, let me be that sane minded person to refute you.

I will use a source from the book titled History of Afghanistan by Abdul Sabahuddin. In his book, he sources the writings of Al Biruni. Al Biruni, was a well known Islamic explorer from Persia, who is widely respected by historians both Non Muslim and Muslim.

from the book he writes the following:-

"it is surmised from the writings of Al Biruni that Pashtuns and/or other local afghans
in Eastern Afghanistan had not been completely converted. Al Biruni, writing in
Tarikh al Hind, also alluded to the Eastern Afghans as neither Muslim nor Hindu,
but simply Afghans, which may mean that the local population of Eastern Afghanistan
were Pagans and animists not unlike the kafirs of Kalash prior to the coming of
Islamic invaders"

this was taken from page 36 of Abdul Sabahuddin's book titled History of Afghanistan.

I hope this claries that Pashtuns/Afghans were never mentioned as Jews nor Arabs by any respected authority at the time.

Abū al-Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad al-Bīrūnī

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Ray%E1%B8%A5%C4%81n_al-B%C4%ABr%C5%ABn%C4%AB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Ray%E1%B8%A5%C4%81n_al-B%C4%ABr%C5%ABn%C4%AB)

case closed.

case is not closed yet...

you are an intellectual fraud too.. and it has been proven by both Barakzai Abdali and Smiterxedge..who both checked your referencing in your meaningless articles...

So due to this.. and your past history of trolling with different aliases..it can be safely concluded that you are an intellectual fraud..

You made the right decision 3 days ago..by stopping debating with me.. as i am on another level for you bro.. i'm too deep.. i m too smart.. you are nothing..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:43 AM
case is now closed.

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:46 AM
Honestly, sorry to say, but this historical section is being over run by childish forum members i.e GOE and Jamal as good examples.

I hope the Admin staff take note of this as it can be very damaging to others outlook on us Pashtuns and especially our intellectual value.

A myth is a myth.

Pashtuns are part of the Indo European family, so is Pushto in regards to Languages. We are not Jews, Semites nor related to any Arab.

Pashtuns have lived in Afghanistan way before Islam or Judaism ever came into being.

If your so confident Jamaudeen about your uncles claims of Pashtuns being related to Qais, why dont you go and do a DNA test and post your results on a thread on this Forum.

Lets see if you are truely related to the ancient Israelites.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:48 AM
Is your uncle in the Pakistan army going to fund my research?

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:49 AM
case is not closed yet...

you are an intellectual fraud too.. and it has been proven by both Barakzai Abdali and Smiterxedge..who both checked your referencing in your meaningless articles...

So due to this.. and your past history of trolling with different aliases..it can be safely concluded that you are an intellectual fraud..

You made the right decision 3 days ago..by stopping debating with me.. as i am on another level for you bro.. i'm too deep.. i m too smart.. you are nothing..


Mr Edge is an Arab who wants to promote Pan Arabist ideals on Pashtuns, Barakzaiabdali is a Doctor in Secular America who wants to promote stoning of women and girls.

I take what they say with a pinch of salt.

You are a ignorant little kid who is afraid of logic and fact.

Like I said, that aside, post us your DNA testings and prove us all wrong that you are directly related to the children of Israel haha!

I will have my pop corn and laughing gas just for the fun of it.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:50 AM
Mr Edge is an Arab who wants to promote Pan Arabist ideals on Pashtuns, Barakzaiabdali is a Doctor in Secular America who wants to promote stoning of women and girls.

I take what they say with a pinch of salt.

You are a ignorant little kid who is afraid of logic and fact.

Like I said, that aside, post us your DNA testings and prove us all wrong that you are directly related to the children of Israel haha!

I will have my pop corn and laughing gas just for the fun of it.

He is more pashtun than you...

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Is your uncle in the Pakistan army going to fund my research?

This is exactly what I mean. What is the point in debating with a kid with emotional problems.

Like I said, provide evidence, i mean real evidence, not what Baba or Kaka said, but real gentic evidence that proofs Pashtuns are the lost children of Israel.

You cant, because your only proof is a mythical booklet produced during the Mughal era.

I am off this thread, waste of time, I made my point, let the kids bicker!

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 10:52 AM
He is more pashtun than you...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln6qarGvak1qajfgg.jpg

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:53 AM
Mr Edge is an Arab who wants to promote Pan Arabist ideals on Pashtuns, Barakzaiabdali is a Doctor in Secular America who wants to promote stoning of women and girls.

I take what they say with a pinch of salt.

You are a ignorant little kid who is afraid of logic and fact.

Like I said, that aside, post us your DNA testings and prove us all wrong that you are directly related to the children of Israel haha!

I will have my pop corn and laughing gas just for the fun of it.

your logic is...

Foriegners invade your country.. kill your country men..rape your women...

therefore, your people are backward....and the foreigners advance and progressive..

so you join the foreigners..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 10:55 AM
This is exactly what I mean. What is the point in debating with a kid with emotional problems.

Like I said, provide evidence, i mean real evidence, not what Baba or Kaka said, but real gentic evidence that proofs Pashtuns are the lost children of Israel.

You cant, because your only proof is a mythical booklet produced during the Mughal era.

I am off this thread, waste of time, I made my point, let the kids bicker!

Your proofs are not authentic...therefore i reject them..

Isn't it you ..who always says...

my uncle..in this town..who has a friend..who owns a chicken shop..his friends..nieces..cousin...

told me..

that people from my area..hate the taleban..and love the US..lol

who are you fooling fool..

Reality is.. that unlike your story..
my uncles do exist... lol.. and yours are just made up stories

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 11:17 AM
Another childish response. I don't know if your uncle smoked too much hash as a student but the only source they have is the non sense written by that mughal era person.

I don't see any point in trying to educate a little kid like you who brings communism into a debate on Pashtun origins.

Go on ask yourself, if Pashtuns came from Qais Rashid, then wouldnt we all be speaking Hebrew or Arabic, and why is it that Pushto is related to Avesta and Farsi, and if we do support your deluded childish claim, then that would mean we adaopted the Language of PASHTO from WHOM?

Qais Rashid was from Afghanistan....and you are just like commies because they distorted history as well to demoralise the masses into the non sense that you believe..

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 11:45 AM
ahahahaha

my ancestor who spoke an archaic pashto and worshipped rocks was pashtun, my father who did hajj 3 times and prayed 5 times daily was a pashtun, and my jack daniels sippin, damsel seducing sooooooch kafir ass is pashtun too

kakar>musakhel>nekzai

u mad faccot?

Amir homie!

Just picture a man on a camel or horse, coming to one of the most remote mountainous regions thats native to some of the most fierce war like people of the day, gets off his camel or horse, takes his wife off, builds a tent, and produces over a 1000 sons and daughters, calls them Durrani, Ghilzai and Kakar, then finds a baby on the floor and calls him Afridi, and sits down, writes a new language called Pakhto that was already widely spoken at the time by the natives and then tells the natives of the land, that you guys are false and my children are the real Pashtuns, this whole myth gets discovered some centuries later by a guy who comes up with an idea that Pashtuns are really just lost children from Israel, who just happened to be born from a person called Qais Rashid, and the rest of the native peoples were just fakes who just lived there.

Man thats just soooo...............

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NURTFz-26UI/TGlgxU2_pRI/AAAAAAAAB2A/XPo03sRBxRk/s1600/stupid-people.jpg

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Amir homie!

Just picture a man on a camel or horse, coming to one of the most remote mountainous regions thats native to some of the most fierce war like people of the day, gets off his camel or horse, takes his wife off, builds a tent, and produces over a 1000 sons and daughters, calls them Durrani, Ghilzai and Kakar, then finds a baby on the floor and calls him Afridi, and sits down, writes a new language called Pakhto that was already widely spoken at the time by the natives and then tells the natives of the land, that you guys are false and my children are the real Pashtuns, this whole myth gets discovered some centuries later by a guy who comes up with an idea that Pashtuns are really just lost children from Israel, who just happened to be born from a person called Qais Rashid, and the rest of the native peoples were just fakes who just lived there.

Man thats just soooo...............

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NURTFz-26UI/TGlgxU2_pRI/AAAAAAAAB2A/XPo03sRBxRk/s1600/stupid-people.jpg

You do realise...that we muslims do not drink alcohol as its considered haram.

Since you and your buddy amir love talking about beer..jack daniel and what not... this guy in the photo resembles you guys better than us...

hahahahahahhaa

Its a really funny photo Sold...because he has stupid written on his forehead..like you two..

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Qais Rashid was from Afghanistan....and you are just like commies because they distorted history as well to demoralise the masses into the non sense that you believe..

Yes i totally agree and so was martin luther king and micky mouse.

I heard Martin came from Herat and Micky mouse was from Momand agency.

Wait brooooo, Stalin and Lenin were also from Waziristan too, I heard Stalin was a Shamankhel and Lenin was from the Isghini tribe of the Bahlolzai Maseeds.

WOW great to hear that. I guess the natives before Qais were just American soldiers who settled in Afghanistan.

Jamal you have brighten my day, I thought Jamal was a serious person and now he supports myths and considers my karlani backside as being Non Pashtun.

You have made my day

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/4/18/44346bcb-ffa6-4fcf-ab74-c648cafcced9.jpg

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 11:53 AM
You do realise...that we muslims do not drink alcohol as its considered haram.

Since you and your buddy amir love talking about beer..jack daniel and what not... this guy in the photo resembles you guys better than us...

hahahahahahhaa

Its a really funny photo Sold...because he has stupid written on his forehead..like you two..

Now your really heading to a real mocking. Do you feel distressed and insulted if so, then good live with it.

Buy yourself a real book on Afghan history, not the Hash smoking jibberish your uncle read from his local village baba.

I am sure many Pashtuns love to drink the same way they love to get high on naswar and pot.

Be gone young grasshopper, your fairy tales have no substance but mere insults and plain and simple stupidity.

If your a Jew or Bani Israel, please kindly pack your bags and migrate back to Israel and hopefully a Qassim Rocket will teach you how not to walk again.

Afghans came from King Saul.....oh deary me.....Daffy duck was also a Sodozai prince from the land of Sky rim.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 11:54 AM
Yes i totally agree and so was martin luther king and micky mouse.

I heard Martin came from Herat and Micky mouse was from Momand agency.

Wait brooooo, Stalin and Lenin were also from Waziristan too, I heard Stalin was a Shamankhel and Lenin was from the Isghini tribe of the Bahlolzai Maseeds.

WOW great to hear that. I guess the natives before Qais were just American soldiers who settled in Afghanistan.

Jamal you have brighten my day, I thought Jamal was a serious person and now he supports myths and considers my karlani backside as being Non Pashtun.

You have made my day

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/4/18/44346bcb-ffa6-4fcf-ab74-c648cafcced9.jpg

This doesn't make sense.....

you are trying to save a face as well.. just like LZ as i exposed his wild little fantasies...

:dead:

Your cheap tactics won't work on me BRO!!! Keep them coming...

Everytime you point your finger at me, i will bend it and shove it up your own nose..all the way till it reaches your little brain

feel the pain bro!!!

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Now your really heading to a real mocking. Do you feel distressed and insulted if so, then good live with it.

Buy yourself a real book on Afghan history, not the Hash smoking jibberish your uncle read from his local village baba.

I am sure many Pashtuns love to drink the same way they love to get high on naswar and pot.

Be gone young grasshopper, your fairy tales have no substance but mere insults and plain and simple stupidity.

If your a Jew or Bani Israel, please kindly pack your bags and migrate back to Israel and hopefully a Qassim Rocket will teach you how not to walk again.

Afghans came from King Saul.....oh deary me.....Daffy duck was also a Sodozai prince from the land of Sky rim.

See, you are mocking pashtuns again, then you have the nerve to claim to be one.

SHAME!

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:05 PM
This doesn't make sense.....

you are trying to save a face as well.. just like LZ as i exposed his wild little fantasies...

:dead:

Your cheap tactics won't work on me BRO!!! Keep them coming...

Everytime you point your finger at me, i will bend it and shove it up your own nose..all the way till it reaches your little brain

feel the pain bro!!!

http://thegospelofman.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/paranoia.jpg

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:07 PM
See, you are mocking pashtuns again, then you have the nerve to claim to be one.

SHAME!

Village Baba says your plain stupid and he loves his Chars and Tamakeee

http://atlaal.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/inde-pakistan-2010-11-006.jpg

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:07 PM
http://thegospelofman.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/paranoia.jpg

Is this how you are feeling right now?

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Village Baba says your plain stupid and he loves his Chars and Tamakeee

http://atlaal.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/inde-pakistan-2010-11-006.jpg

Village Baba says Soldout Amir is a kafir.. non pashtun..traitor , who will be stoned to death...if the people found him.

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:11 PM
Is this how you are feeling right now?

Come Jamal, join the Bani Israeli Charsi brothers we will smoke so much chars that Qais Rashid will reappear

Y2n4MgpSm00&

Insaaf_انصاف
12-08-2011, 12:12 PM
Jamal
Kya bak rahe ho kuttey

Shut your mouth , you kuffar

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:13 PM
Jamal
Kya bak rahe ho kuttey

Shut your mouth , you kuffar

Change your username to Wazir Keyboard Warrior...it will suit you.

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Jamaludeen;554175]Village Baba says Soldout Amir is a kafir.. non pashtun..traitor , who will be stoned to death...if the people found him

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/5/17/f7de4bdd-1be9-482d-830d-20ce3e57e030.jpg

Insaaf_انصاف
12-08-2011, 12:16 PM
Change your username to Wazir Keyboard Warrior...it will suit you.

You are just stupid, and we can see it in your profile pic ( the map ), balochistan don't belongs to Afghanistan , balochs are not afghan

You are very very very stupid jamoul

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
You are just stupid, and we can see it in your profile pic ( the map ), balochistan don't belongs to Afghanistan , balochs are not afghan

You are very very very stupid jamoul

How am i stupid and Kuffar? When it is you who thanks all the atheists in here....

I am 100% positive..that you are not a wazir..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/5/17/f7de4bdd-1be9-482d-830d-20ce3e57e030.jpg

you laugh like a dog.

Insaaf_انصاف
12-08-2011, 12:21 PM
How am i stupid and Kuffar? When it is you who thanks all the atheists in here....

I am 100% positive..that you are not a wazir..

Oh.... Stupid jammmmul change your profile pic, and after that , we can talk,

Go show this map to a baloch, he will stone you to death

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Village Baba says Soldout Amir is a kafir.. non pashtun..traitor , who will be stoned to death...if the people found him.

You are just stupid, and we can see it in your profile pic ( the map ), balochistan don't belongs to Afghanistan , balochs are not afghan

You are very very very stupid jamoul

You know Wazira, Zma vrora, this Jamal calls me a Non Pashtun and a sell out, ignoring the fact, that his Qais myth considers Pashtuns such as me as Karlani Non Pashtuns who came from a orphan who Qais found on the road.

Its really sad, honestly really sad, that Ja"mule" believes in such fantasies.

I gave him facts, and a reference from one of the most respected Islamic exporers Al biruni, who stated Afghans were Pagans and Animists, and not Ambrahmic faith followers.

Like I said, Jamal, do a DNA test, put the results up, I am excited to see your results and lets see if you got a Palestinian cousin or a Jew long lost uncle.

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:23 PM
How am i stupid and Kuffar? When it is you who thanks all the atheists in here....

I am 100% positive..that you are not a wazir..

Your 100 percent postive for stupidity

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:23 PM
Oh.... Stupid jammmmul change your profile pic, and after that , we can talk,

Go show this map to a baloch, he will stone you to death

Why would I want to talk to someone who thanks atheists...and is a fake wazir..

Please change your name to something else than a Wazir...then we can talk.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Your 100 percent postive for stupidity

You are not smart dude... i can prove it..

Ask Alchemist..graveyardofempires....Sangar... SmiterxEdge..

they have all caught your lies.. you are history bro..

its time for you to change your ID..and come with a new alias... your game is over...

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Why would I want to talk to someone who thanks atheists...and is a fake wazir..

Please change your name to something else than a Wazir...then we can talk.

All hail to king Ja Mule who is the judge of who is Pashtun and who is not.

May Jamal al Ameriki of the USA live a long life on Yankee Tax dollers.

May he one day bump into my 50 calibre so he can see the other side of his errors.

Insaaf_انصاف
12-08-2011, 12:27 PM
Yeah, he considers himself like a true pashtun but he lives in west with his cosy bed lol
This is just ridiculous
JEMUL

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:27 PM
You know Wazira, Zma vrora, this Jamal calls me a Non Pashtun and a sell out, ignoring the fact, that his Qais myth considers Pashtuns such as me as Karlani Non Pashtuns who came from a orphan who Qais found on the road.

Its really sad, honestly really sad, that Ja"mule" believes in such fantasies.

I gave him facts, and a reference from one of the most respected Islamic exporers Al biruni, who stated Afghans were Pagans and Animists, and not Ambrahmic faith followers.

Like I said, Jamal, do a DNA test, put the results up, I am excited to see your results and lets see if you got a Palestinian cousin or a Jew long lost uncle.

Why don't you answer my questions? And if you do..you will realise that you are not a pashtun/Afghan..

You are not a muslim..99% of Afghans are..lol

your days are gone buddy...the commies came..and they were defeated... no one is going to believe you..

no one has come to your rescue.. but only other atheists...

which shows....that most of the forum disagrees with you as well..

You are not muslim..therefore you are rejected by everyone..

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:29 PM
Yeah, he considers himself like a true pashtun but he lives in west with his cosy bed lol
This is just ridiculous
JEMUL

look at how backward you are..you are still sleeping on the floor...haha most..people in tribal areas too..

Soldout Khamir..considers our ways to be backward..therefore he considers you to be backward too..

and you are thanking him..

and you call yourself a pashtun..even though he is disrespecting you..

shame.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:30 PM
All hail to king Ja Mule who is the judge of who is Pashtun and who is not.

May Jamal al Ameriki of the USA live a long life on Yankee Tax dollers.

May he one day bump into my 50 calibre so he can see the other side of his errors.

I'm not even in the west..

shame!!!!!!

In your face!!!

COME ON DUDE..IF YOU HAVE ANY SHAME.

You will stop now...

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:31 PM
You are not smart dude... i can prove it..

Ask Alchemist..graveyardofempires....Sangar... SmiterxEdge..

they have all caught your lies.. you are history bro..

its time for you to change your ID..and come with a new alias... your game is over...

My life is over, GOE, Alchemist, mr Edge and Sangar have exposed me of being a very intelligent person.

Jamal come up with something better for one.

I better stop commenting from now one, my game is over, I better run away I have been exposed!

Yes I have been exposed but to stupidity.

Show me a single post of GOE that makes any sense, Alchemist couldnt even last in the evolution thread and resorted to name calling even though his Subway(very Jewish) was a failure, Sangar declares Jihad from one of the worlds most liberal kuffur country and Mr Edge thinks very Pashtun is a relative of a Yemani desert tradesman.

I should no longer post because I am so scared of Jamal now.

:celebrate:

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm not even in the west..

shame!!!!!!

In your face!!!

COME ON DUDE..IF YOU HAVE ANY SHAME.

You will stop now...

Yes I am sure your uncle is the president of Islamic emerite of Bani Israel.

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:33 PM
Yes I am sure your uncle is the president of Islamic emerite of Bani Israel.

hahahaha

I am not in the WEST...I DONT LIVE IN A WESTERN COUNTRY..

In your face..

Liar!!

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 12:35 PM
hahahaha

I am not in the WEST...I DONT LIVE IN A WESTERN COUNTRY..

In your face..

Liar!!

I know bro but is your uncle the president of Bani Israel?

JAMALUDEEN
12-08-2011, 12:39 PM
I know bro but is your uncle the president of Bani Israel?

You should meet my uncle.... he was in the Afghan Army.. before the russian came...

He is in the UK right now, i could arrange a meeting.. if you wish..

Amir al Ghaznavi
12-08-2011, 01:49 PM
qais abdul rashid was a legend, a myth, a fable, a fake, a fuggazi


whatever you want to call it

pashtuns were non muslims, some converted willingly, some converted by sword


these are historical facts


so from this thread we have concluded the following

1- you dont have to be muslim to be afghan, hence the presence of afghan hindus and sikhs

2- being pashtun may be synonymous with muslim in a modern cultural context, because these things are subjective. but certainly to be a pashtun there is no religious requirement because

a- pashtun is based on paternal tribal lineage
b- before islam, pashtuns existed


this thread is an epic faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaail

Insaaf_انصاف
12-08-2011, 01:53 PM
qais abdul rashid was a legend, a myth, a fable, a fake, a fuggazi


whatever you want to call it

pashtuns were non muslims, some converted willingly, some converted by sword


these are historical facts


so from this thread we have concluded the following



1- you dont have to be muslim to be afghan, hence the presence of afghan hindus and sikhs

2- being pashtun may be synonymous with muslim in a modern cultural context, because these things are subjective. but certainly to be a pashtun there is no religious requirement because

a- pashtun is based on paternal tribal lineage
b- before islam, pashtuns existed


this thread is an epic faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaail

I totally agree.
You don't have to be a Muslim to be an afghan by ethnicity...
There were afghans much before islam....

Michin Khel
12-08-2011, 02:10 PM
I am taking no one side.I respect LZ/Ghaznavi/soldat and jamal is my friend...i would share my views. 1-Qais theory is false. It was created by khan jahan lodhi of mughal court, he wanted to show superiority of afghan race over mughals. At that times arabs and bani israel were considered races of high status as bani israel were descendants of prophets, so were arabs...being people of hazrat mohamad p.b.u.h. Khan jahan lodhi sent his men to pashtun areas to record history of each pashtun tribe. After that he connected each history of each individual tribe history with fictitious characters like qais abdul rasheed. The lower parts of the shajra are true as it was recorded from pashtuns. But the qais and few branches are false. I mean its true that wazirs & mehsuds are cousins or niazis & marwats are cousins but i doubt that qais was their ancestor...
2- I read babur nama, babur in his book mentions the fact that yousafzais were muslims in his times but bajauris were still pagans. He invaded bajaur and killed thousands of bajauris..he feels proud in his diary that he killed kafirs...so i think pashtuns were not jews
3- when pashtuns were mostly pagans, the few newly converted pashtuns to islam were perhaps not accepted as pashtuns by majority pagans like today GOE and Jamal dont consider amir, LZ or soldat as pashtuns...majority is authority...leavanay lives in pakistan, if he declare his views in public , his life can be in danger...when salman taseer was killed, we were discussing the news in majlis. I said that taseer was wrong in his opinions but qadri is a murderer not a hero, he should be hanged for murder. Suddenly a student stood up and with red eyes he said that i would kill you with my own gun if you spoke like this again..jawab k maa salawat warta sunao krro, du lasuna ar wa chawal. Margaro ar sara khlaas krro kani rogha mota lanja wa....soldat know what kind of reaction his mehsuds would give to him if he expressed his athiest views and levanay knows how his marwats would react to his views, lets be honest. I have no doubt about their sincerity to pashtun nation, the problem is pashtun society is not yet flexible for athiests.

unknownprince
12-08-2011, 02:28 PM
qais abdul rashid was a legend, a myth, a fable, a fake, a fuggazi


whatever you want to call it

pashtuns were non muslims, some converted willingly, some converted by sword


these are historical facts


so from this thread we have concluded the following

1- you dont have to be muslim to be afghan, hence the presence of afghan hindus and sikhs

2- being pashtun may be synonymous with muslim in a modern cultural context, because these things are subjective. but certainly to be a pashtun there is no religious requirement because

a- pashtun is based on paternal tribal lineage
b- before islam, pashtuns existed


this thread is an epic faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaail

Qais Abdul Rashid was not a myth. Prove it.

Pahstuns were monotheistic before Islam too.

Michin Khel
12-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Qais Abdul Rashid was not a myth. Prove it.

Pahstuns were monotheistic before Islam too.

There is another theory very popular among religous pashtuns, that pashtuns are decendants of hazrat khalid bin walid...due to sentiments for islam, nowdays it is more popular than qais theory...we are so desparate to be arabs , every third person you would meet would claim to be syed...why not to be ok with geniune history?

Soldat_Amir
12-08-2011, 03:49 PM
I am taking no one side.I respect LZ/Ghaznavi/soldat and jamal is my friend...i would share my views. 1-Qais theory is false. It was created by khan jahan lodhi of mughal court, he wanted to show superiority of afghan race over mughals. At that times arabs and bani israel were considered races of high status as bani israel were descendants of prophets, so were arabs...being people of hazrat mohamad p.b.u.h. Khan jahan lodhi sent his men to pashtun areas to record history of each pashtun tribe. After that he connected each history of each individual tribe history with fictitious characters like qais abdul rasheed. The lower parts of the shajra are true as it was recorded from pashtuns. But the qais and few branches are false. I mean its true that wazirs & mehsuds are cousins or niazis & marwats are cousins but i doubt that qais was their ancestor...
2- I read babur nama, babur in his book mentions the fact that yousafzais were muslims in his times but bajauris were still pagans. He invaded bajaur and killed thousands of bajauris..he feels proud in his diary that he killed kafirs...so i think pashtuns were not jews
3- when pashtuns were mostly pagans, the few newly converted pashtuns to islam were perhaps not accepted as pashtuns by majority pagans like today GOE and Jamal dont consider amir, LZ or soldat as pashtuns...majority is authority...leavanay lives in pakistan, if he declare his views in public , his life can be in danger...when salman taseer was killed, we were discussing the news in majlis. I said that taseer was wrong in his opinions but qadri is a murderer not a hero, he should be hanged for murder. Suddenly a student stood up and with red eyes he said that i would kill you with my own gun if you spoke like this again..jawab k maa salawat warta sunao krro, du lasuna ar wa chawal. Margaro ar sara khlaas krro kani rogha mota lanja wa....soldat know what kind of reaction his mehsuds would give to him if he expressed his athiest views and levanay knows how his marwats would react to his views, lets be honest. I have no doubt about their sincerity to pashtun nation, the problem is pashtun society is not yet flexible for athiests.

Jar may sha zma vrora excellent post.

Alchemist
12-08-2011, 04:36 PM
My life is over, GOE, Alchemist, mr Edge and Sangar have exposed me of being a very intelligent person.

Jamal come up with something better for one.

I better stop commenting from now one, my game is over, I better run away I have been exposed!

Yes I have been exposed but to stupidity.

Show me a single post of GOE that makes any sense, Alchemist couldnt even last in the evolution thread and resorted to name calling even though his Subway(very Jewish) was a failure, Sangar declares Jihad from one of the worlds most liberal kuffur country and Mr Edge thinks very Pashtun is a relative of a Yemani desert tradesman.

I should no longer post because I am so scared of Jamal now.

:celebrate:


Don't take my name in vain...


It was thanks to GOE and some others that you finally figured out your identity...

Now we are telling you that AFGHANISTAN TODAY!!!

not 1000 years ago is MAJORITY ISLAM.

It is called THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. Da Afghanistan Islamiya Jumhuriya...ISLAMIYA.

Do you understand that phrase?

The constitution of Afghanistan cannot invalidate the QUR'AN.

Hate it all you want but legilators must know arabic to know what is in the Qur'an!

Hate it all you want but in the ISLAMIC REPULIC OF AFGHANISTAN your beliefs were tantamount to TREASON!


Everyone that argued with me on Evolution has disappared out of shame! Mountain goat...that midnight sun...and now {---EDITED---}.. He has gone MIA for a week now? You know why? Cos he finally started to smell the stench of his own B.S! Waiting for the air to clear, his traumatized mind to recover from all that B.S he believed....Psychologically damaged. Each and everyone of you...go look at ozzy...his arguments have turned inward. He is reacting like an abused child...cowering from fear to even read what I have to say...just flailing his arms about with his eyes closed. I' give him another week before he is dispatched too!

And let me tell you something else ...don't butt heads with me. Your intellect is non existent as far as I am concerned.

Oh and for the record... subway is owned by an Italian (Fred Deluca).

ScimitarXEdge
12-08-2011, 04:52 PM
or because it's December and I have finals coming up ....I mean that would be probably the most valid reason., but as a pathetic inferiority complex afflicted wimp you are, it's natural you'll always claim hallucinated victories to all your grimy rodent friends, only to find the shadow of my menacing juggernaut self looming over you as you turn around trembling and pissing your pants Don't worry Mousecaca, you'll have a glorious public humiliation coming.



And Soldat ....originally I made the decision to ceasefire on you as I felt it enabled the Talib zombies to spew more of their nonsense and propaganda. However since you've shown your true colors as a spineless mentally colonized Faranngay stooge by exposing your two faced character, get ready to be exposed and have your entire foolish hair brain bat **** rambling debunked that made you running for refuge as you did the Dozen other times I ran you off of this forum.

And in advance, you're welcome. I'll be back once finals are finished. Bye everyone.

unknownprince
12-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Scimitar,

Actually, this is all you do "Backpedaling, Goal post changing, strawman, layman, red herring" nonsense.

Its termed pure nonsense.

tor_khan
12-08-2011, 06:16 PM
I've had a number of messages about this thread from various contributors most of whom objected to some manner in which they have been addressed.

I needn't remind the forum that in order for your comments to be taken seriously, you need to show some measure of respect to your "opponents".

Since this thread is no longer about "Questions" to atheists, it seems appropriate to lock it now for tidy up.