View Full Version : Intra-marital Rape


Dinosaur Khan
03-20-2010, 08:25 AM
What do you think about it? Do you agree that a husband can not rape his wife or husband has an absolute right to enjoy his wife's body even against her will and less so by use of force.
What islam says about this matter?

Master Khan
03-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Well a women have her right aswell.

Talal
03-20-2010, 05:23 PM
its disgusting to force a woman into doing something she doesnt want to do. Our people dont care about Islam in other matters but when it comes to women they'll knock themselves out in twisting the words and meanings till they have turned into something despicable. Women and men are born as equals, they both have their rights..this kinda thing should never be forced

Dinosaur Khan
03-20-2010, 07:04 PM
I hope you will not trying to ruin topics purposelessly in future.
I usually dont give responses to abusive ,over-aggressive or sarcastic posts. But by judging your intentions, i decided to post. So in future i will not respond to non-sense.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm confused about the title of this thread. If it's about a husband raping his wife, or rape in a marriage, I'd just simply call it marital rape.

What do you think about it?

I don't think anyone has the right to forcefully get ANYONE to do anything. So, no, I don't think the husband has any right to force his wife into "intimacy." It's such a cowardly thing to do.

What islam says about this matter?

That's difficult to conclude, and, as with *every other topic in Islam (with a focus on women)*, scholars haven't come to one conclusion. That, of course, is if by "Islam," you mean Quran and hadith. If you mean just the Quran, then I'd say the pro-marital rape hadiths have no Quranic basis; if you mean just the hadiths, I'd say they're totally okay with it.

See, the QURAN seems to suggest that women cannot be forced into anything and doesn't seem to permit (marital) rape, or rape at all, of course. It considers men and women "garments" of one another (Quran, 2:187); it says that God has created "mates" for us on earth in order that we may live in harmony with each other (Quran, 4:1); and it tells us that God has put love and mercy in our hearts for one another so that we may dwell in peace and tranquility (30:21) -- among many other nice and kind things about women.

But, unfortunately, many authentic hadiths make women nothing but objects (I'll prove it here with regards to marital rape and in the thread on women in Islam as well). So we have no choice but to conclude that these hadiths don't consider it "rape" when a man forces himself on his wife in order to get pleasure from her. If they weren't authentic, one would say, "Well, yeah, they don't matter." But these ARE authentic. And that's a big problem.

Consider the following hadiths, for example.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: When a woman spends the night away from the bed of her husband, the angels curse her until morning.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is in the heaven is displeased with her until he (her husband) is pleased with her.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah he pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the sight being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.

(All of the above appear in the Book of Marriage in Sahih Muslim’s; it is chapter 20, hadith #s 3366 – 3368.)

From Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, hadiths 1201-122, we read the following:
~ Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a man Invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

~ Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

Trimidhi has similar hadiths.
Other versions say that the woman must NEVER refuse sex to him, even if she’s in the stove (i.e., kitchen), or on the back of a camel, or tending to her children, etc., etc.

Note who narrated the hadiths. Abu Hurairah is one of the least liked, least trusted, and most misogynistic hadith transmitters ever, and many many contemporary, and even classical, scholars on women’s Islamic status have a problem with him. He’s narrated many other hadith in which women are nothing but sexual objects of their husbands. Whether this is my own opinion or not is not important. I’ve only recently been noticing this myself about Abu Hurairah.

So, the above hadiths clearly make it the woman’s obligation to serve her husband’s needs. They also don’t say ANYTHING about the woman’s needs for intimacy, or the man’s obligation to please his wife as well.

The commentaries on these hadiths say that "no, the woman CAN refuse but she has to have a legitimate reason, like some illness or menstruation or something."
Yeah, okay, but if she refuses him, there MUST be a reason. What if she's just not in the mood? What if she doesn't like him and is never turned on by him and doesn't wanna let him touch her because he mistreats her, or doesn't know how to respect her? What if she's just not comfortable at that particular moment? What if she's busy doing something *that she considers* more important than pleasing her husband's sexual needs at that particular time? But some hadiths make it obvious that even if she's "on the back of a camel" or "at the stove," she cannot refuse him. That's to mean, I'd suspect, that no matter WHAT she's doing, she MUST not say no.

I'm about to give the views of some scholars, so you'll see that these hadiths really have created much disturbance in the minds of most scholars, as well as controversy, and scholars are left with a desperate need to support it, since the hadiths above are classified as authentic.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 11:25 PM
The topic has been one of the most widely discussed ones in Islamic scholarship from the beginning of Islamic history. And even today, scholars don’t agree on what rights the woman has when it comes to sex. Al-Ghazali has written volumes on the matter, and, according to him, it’s the man’s obligation to make sure that the woman enjoys it. (Unfortunately, there’s no specific hadith text to support his claims.) Quoting him: “The husband should not be pre-occupied with his own satisfaction, because the woman will often be shy.” (That’s from his book The Proper Conduct of Marriage, p.75.)
AND YET, also according to him, if the woman is NOT satisfied, it’s because of the difficulty of satisfying such a claim. (That’s from the same source, same page.) I'm looking more into his work to get a better understanding of what's up with his conflicting views.

Then we have Ibn Abideen, who said, “After the first time, intercourse is the husband’s right, not the wife’s.” (Radda al-Muhtar, vol. 4,p.379. The author provides contested perspectives from the Hanafi perspective on the rights of husbands, wives, and the husband’s concubines (female slaves) with regards to intercourse.)

Ibn Kathir is known to have said similar things regarding these hadiths, but then again, he's also one of tho scholars and commentators who believe men are just naturally better than women (according to him, that's why women aren't allowed to serve as qadis, judges, in Islam). However, he says that the man isn't allowed to beat up his wife *unless* she disobeys him, which includes her unwillingness to satisfy his sexual whims.

The reasons given by the scholars who agree that the woman is absolutely forbidden to refuse sex to her husband (unless she’s on menstruation or is ill otherwise) are astonishing. It’s interesting to see their need to defend their stance, and, my God! Most actually believe that it’s the woman’s job BECAUSE her husband gave her so much in dowry that she cannot refuse him. These scholars agree that when the husband gives her dowry, the wife must always submit to him sexually (and in other ways as well, but that’s another topic for another time). For instance, Al-Shafi, founder of Shafi School (Sunni), considers dowry “the vulva’s price” (in Arabic, “thaman al-bud’a”). He’s just one of the many who terms it this, though. The Quranic verse they use to support their claim is verse 4:24, which says:

“And (also forbidden to you in marriage are) all married women except those whom your right hands possess.… Then as to those women whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.”

“Those whom you profit by” has somehow come to mean that the husband is to give his wives their dowry *because* he “profits” from them, and that profit is clearly nothing but sexual pleasure, according to many. (Some actually translate it to "pleasure," not "profit.")

Another verse used to support their claim is verse 2:223:
"Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand.”

(According to al-Ghazali and a few others, the part about “do some good act for yourself beforehand” implies foreplay, or making sure that the wife is also in the mood. However, since it seems only like a SUGGESTION and not a command, the scholars don’t take it too seriously.)

Hence, according to most classical scholars (and hence many today, since what the scholars in the past said is supposed to be the "truth," even though it may just have been their own perceptions of women in their times and societies), the dower is given by the husband in exchange for his dominion over her sexual and reproductive capacity.

One last thing. Did you know that the term “nikah” literally means “intercourse”? Well, now you know. It’s often translated to “marriage” because the understanding is that in a real marriage, the couple *must* have sex, and it’s considered not just necessary but close to obligatory in order for the marriage to be fully accepted. But literally, it means that.

A professor of mine shared a joke with us when we were talking about women, marriage, and women's obligation towards their husbands (which includes submitting to their needs). He said, "A Pakistani friend of mine invited me and an Egyptian friend of ours to his 'nikah' and said, 'I really want you to come to my nikah.' And My Egyptian friend was stunned that he'd said that and said, 'No, no,' until it was clarified that he meant marriage ceremony."
LOL!

Roshina
03-20-2010, 11:53 PM
^LOL!
when your done with your research. Be sure to post here so I know my rights!

lol. Okay... but it's hard to define our rights clearly :D I can only tell you what different people said and why they said it and what the responses have been to their views ... nothing more than that :P If we go by what they've said, then the conclusion in my opinion is this:

Since each one has said SOMEthing nice about women, EACH one believes in at least *some* rights of women (under Islam), those rights can amount to a looooooot of rights ;) So just take all of those rights. If you stick with the view of just ONE scholar, you're screwed, 'cause each one has said something that will boil the brains of any woman, whether educated or uneducated. So just take the best things from each of them. (No, really. Especially when justifications of their views are grounded IN the Quran. Then you have a good argument.)

P.S. You can help me with the research ;) by studying those sources as well, so you can correct me when I'm wrong and elaborate on the points I don't give too much focus to. Ka sanga?

IamDZJ
03-21-2010, 12:43 AM
the word "no" is a very short and straight forward one. if you don't know what that stands for than we have alot more to worry about.

IamDZJ
03-21-2010, 01:22 AM
^ or u r easily tickled.

IamDZJ
03-21-2010, 02:25 AM
make sense or else.

IamDZJ
03-25-2010, 10:49 PM
My apologies to any one who was offended by the original post.

IamDZJ
03-25-2010, 11:14 PM
I am handsome and I am Pashtun, so be nice to me.
get lost.

Laila
03-25-2010, 11:26 PM
I am handsome and I am Pashtun, so be nice to me.

::rolleyes:: What makes you think you are handsome??!!

Do you have amazingly beautiful colored eyes? Do you have a killer smile? Are you tall and tanned? Are you well educated and sweet? Are you amazing at the attan? huh??? jk jk :P

IamDZJ
03-25-2010, 11:32 PM
i hate good looking idiots. they are called "pretty boys" and in my list of Seriously Annoying Things ,they come right after 13 year old girls who are obsessed with pink.

Laila
03-25-2010, 11:57 PM
Yes. I have all the above.

Send me your pics so we can get married now.

OH, you have all of that.....thats too good to be true

:hmmm: hmmm.....You gotta prove to me that you have those qualifications :P

Master Khan
03-27-2010, 02:29 PM
^
Everyone can say that they are handsome

Pakhtunzai
03-27-2010, 10:36 PM
::rolleyes:: What makes you think you are handsome??!!

Do you have amazingly beautiful colored eyes? Do you have a killer smile? Are you tall and tanned? Are you well educated and sweet? Are you amazing at the attan? huh??? jk jk :P

daymm u have some high demands=p

Dinosaur Khan
03-27-2010, 11:00 PM
::rolleyes:: What makes you think you are handsome??!!

Do you have amazingly beautiful colored eyes? :P
Lol who has said to you that coloured eyes look beautiful on boys? they are biggest turn off.

Sheen stargay are not liked among pashtuns.

Laila
03-27-2010, 11:22 PM
daymm u have some high demands=p
ha ha ha noooo, i dont have high demands......well maybe. Like just a little teeny tiny bit. I mean, why should i not be if i am putting my trust and spending the rest of my life with this man.

Lol who has said to you that coloured eyes look beautiful on boys? they are biggest turn off.

Sheen stargay are not liked among pashtuns.

A good looking guy with green eyes is a huge turn on, in a good way......Though i think any guy, colored eyes or not, is handsome.

Dinosaur Khan
03-27-2010, 11:26 PM
You may be liking it but i was talking about general views of pashtuns on green eyes.

Pakhtunzai
03-27-2010, 11:26 PM
ha ha ha noooo, i dont have high demands......well maybe. Like just a little teeny tiny bit. I mean, why should i not be if i am putting my trust and spending the rest of my life with this man.



A good looking guy with green eyes is a huge turn on, in a good way......Though i think any guy, colored eyes or not, is handsome.

lol fair enough=p and i dont go crazy over the eyes except hazel lol which i think is pretty cool, some of my family got amber/light brownish which is weird lol

Laila
03-27-2010, 11:30 PM
lol fair enough=p and i dont go crazy over the eyes except hazel lol which i think is pretty cool, some of my family got amber/light brownish which is weird lol

Eyes and smile is what attracts me first. Through that I get a sense of like and sincerity. Then comes the personality......Dude, i will let you know if *Mr. Filani* has colored eyes :P

Pakhtunzai
03-27-2010, 11:34 PM
Eyes and smile is what attracts me first. Through that I get a sense of like and sincerity. Then comes the personality......Dude, i will let you know if *Mr. Filani* has colored eyes :P

haha same really, i can easily scope out ones personality, you just know if you are going to get along with a certain person..loll cool=p

Roshina
03-27-2010, 11:36 PM
Lol who has said to you that coloured eyes look beautiful on boys? they are biggest turn off.

Sheen stargay are not liked among pashtuns.

That's interesting. Where I'm from, children are seen as ANGELS if they have blue or green eyes (and especially when they have blond hair!). So in our areas, it's like the biggest turn-on.

It must vary with regions, eh, 'cause it's certainly not for all -- or even a majority of -- the Pukhtuns.

I myself hate the way we generally define beauty, which is that the lighter the person is, the more "beautiful" or "handsome" she/he is.

WOW :D How we've gotten SO off topic! lol

Dinosaur Khan
03-27-2010, 11:36 PM
Green-eyed persons are considerd "spairo" among pashtuns.

Pakhtunzai
03-27-2010, 11:40 PM
That's interesting. Where I'm from, children are seen as ANGELS if they have blue or green eyes (and especially when they have blond hair!). So in our areas, it's like the biggest turn-on.

It must vary with regions, eh, 'cause it's certainly not for all -- or even a majority of -- the Pukhtuns.

I myself hate the way we generally define beauty, which is that the lighter the person is, the more "beautiful" or "handsome" she/he is.

WOW :D How we've gotten SO off topic! lol

many pakistanis seem to go gaga over the lighter skin colour and the light colour eyes..there is beauty even in the darkest skin colours of people=D

Haha well thats forums for ya!

Roshina
03-27-2010, 11:41 PM
Green-eyed persons are considerd "spairo" among pashtuns.

And which Pashtuns (i.e., Pashtuns in which areas) would that be? 'Cause even I'm surprised to hear this, and I'm so not fond of people with blue or green eyes.

Dinosaur Khan
03-27-2010, 11:45 PM
And which Pashtuns (i.e., Pashtuns in which areas) would that be? 'Cause even I'm surprised to hear this, and I'm so not fond of people with blue or green eyes.

Southren NWFP.
blue eyed persons are rare and liked. but green eyes (which r common) are not liked so much.

Roshina
03-27-2010, 11:47 PM
Southren NWFP.
blue eyed persons are rare and liked. but green eyes (which r common) are not liked so much.

Wah! So hard to believe! Ship those green-eyed people to our areas ;) We DIE for them! :jeez:

Pakhtunzai
03-27-2010, 11:48 PM
Wah! So hard to believe! Ship those green-eyed people to our areas ;) We DIE for them! :jeez:

where r ur areas?

Roshina
03-27-2010, 11:56 PM
where r ur areas?

Swat and other NW areas.

Pakhtunzai
03-28-2010, 12:48 AM
Swat and other NW areas.

wow nice, we have some swatis in my village in gujarkhan now, my kaka jan took some in for protection.

Laila
03-28-2010, 02:46 AM
That's interesting. Where I'm from, children are seen as ANGELS if they have blue or green eyes (and especially when they have blond hair!). So in our areas, it's like the biggest turn-on.

It must vary with regions, eh, 'cause it's certainly not for all -- or even a majority of -- the Pukhtuns.

I myself hate the way we generally define beauty, which is that the lighter the person is, the more "beautiful" or "handsome" she/he is.

WOW :D How we've gotten SO off topic! lol

Majority of Laghmani people are light haired, fair skin, and colored eyes.....nearly my whole family is like that. I have the lightest hair color in my family though i did not get my fathers green eyes :( But brown eyes is absolutely beautiful; though with colored eyes, its just a beauty spark that comes out and attracts you.

I have a cousin who has green eyes, dark hair, and the tannest skin color. The women in my family say in pashto (dunno how to say it) 'weeee, she is not as beautiful as her mother.' Her mother has blue eyes with light skin complexion. But i totally disagree, though her mother is beautiful, i think her daughter is even more gorgeous. I love tan skin, it gives you a sunkist glow. Back home, if you have light skin and/or colored eyes, you are like a greek goddess.

once again, sorry for the topic twist....that always seems to happen with us :P

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Wow What all this have to do with Intra-marital Rape in islam

Laila
03-28-2010, 03:27 PM
I think all pashtuns are light skin with colored eyes at least my family and me.

no, not all pashtuns have light skin and/or colored eyes.....we have lots of tan folks too. My brother is tall, tanned, with dark complexion, he gets it from my fathers side.

jeez, this thread has so twisted. Maybe admin can move these parts to the random thread.

Palwasha
03-28-2010, 03:28 PM
^Lol, it all kinda drifted.

Green-eyed persons are considerd "spairo" among pashtuns.

Ehh, never heard ant of that before wror, especially as green eyes is quite common amongst Pashtuns. It's the rarest colour to have of eyes.

Palwasha
03-28-2010, 03:30 PM
I think all pashtuns are light skin with colored eyes

It's just the stereotype. An arab girl once told me that she knew some Pakistani Pashtana's in her college and asked if they were darker due to inter-marriage, they may have occured in their families.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 04:35 PM
well if your wife is really beautiful then Intra-marital Rape could be a possibilty

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 04:50 PM
Sok che pa toro stergo mayan we agha ba da shno stargo sa parwa lareena

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 06:16 PM
well if your wife is really beautiful then Intra-marital Rape could be a possibilty

children are to keep quiet while adults are discussing serious matters.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 07:45 PM
children are to keep quiet while adults are discussing serious matters.

so thats you lot were off-topic.
we are dicussing about Intra-marital Rape (http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=6522#post6522) not how Pashtuns look like.

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 07:54 PM
so thats you lot were off-topic.
we are dicussing about Intra-marital Rape (http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=6522#post6522) not how Pashtuns look like.

o really? that's funny because the 5-6 posts above me were definitely discussion about looks.
i don't see how me speaking about something "unrelated" to the topic allows you the right to justify rape with out being questioned by any one. you should be glad i am blaming your age and not something else for making an immature statement like that.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 08:03 PM
o really? that's funny because the 5-6 posts above me were definitely discussion about looks.
i don't see how me speaking about something "unrelated" to the topic allows you the right to justify rape with out being questioned by any one. you should be glad i am blaming your age and not something else for making an immature statement like that.
Khor lag goozara ko plz.
I was only joking about that.
Rape is really haraam in Islam.

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 08:05 PM
Khor lag goozara ko plz.
I was only joking about that.
Rape is really haraam in Islam.

child may be you should find a different topic for your jokes. rape is not that funny.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 08:06 PM
child may be you should find a different topic for your jokes. rape is not that funny.
we are speaking about husband and wife khor.

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 08:12 PM
this thread is about spreading awareness regarding intra-marital rape being wrong. THANKS FOR NOTICING:banghead:

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 08:20 PM
this thread is about spreading awareness regarding intra-marital rape being wrong. THANKS FOR NOTICING:banghead:
I think I upset you.
I know intra-marital rape is wrong..I never said it was right:confused:

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 08:25 PM
well if your wife is really beautiful then Intra-marital Rape could be a possibilty

.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 08:31 PM
.
where I said in that line that it is right?:confused:

Dinosaur Khan
03-28-2010, 08:34 PM
Intra-marital rape is wrong in every sense, but it is sad that many of our religous men depict women as if they are sex object. when you will sit to a mullah, his main target will be women as if she is incarnation of shaitan. I interviewed many religous guys and they said that in islam you can have "forceful" sex with wife if she is denying it to you.

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 08:35 PM
you consider it a possibility and then in of your posts you said you were talking about husband and wife. as if that made it alight.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 08:41 PM
you consider it a possibility and then in of your posts you said you were talking about husband and wife. as if that made it alight.
Well I never said it was alright.
I already said in my lost posts that its haraam and wrong...how is raping your wife alright?:confused:

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 08:54 PM
whatever

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 09:11 PM
whatever
zano chi to wai no..I give up.
you seem to lost your plot here

IamDZJ
03-28-2010, 09:39 PM
i haven't lost anything. you keep going in circles. well actually i have lost interest in convincing you that you are wrong.

Master Khan
03-28-2010, 09:55 PM
i haven't lost anything. you keep going in circles. well actually i have lost interest in convincing you that you are wrong.
Well thank god for that.
you are confusing me by saying that I think that Intra-marital Rape (http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=6584#post6584) is fine..oh I make it look as if its fine..:awkward:.

darkwitch
04-07-2010, 01:09 PM
But, unfortunately, many authentic hadiths make women nothing but objects (I'll prove it here with regards to marital rape and in the thread on women in Islam as well). So we have no choice but to conclude that these hadiths don't consider it "rape" when a man forces himself on his wife in order to get pleasure from her. If they weren't authentic, one would say, "Well, yeah, they don't matter." But these ARE authentic. And that's a big problem.

Consider the following hadiths, for example.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: When a woman spends the night away from the bed of her husband, the angels curse her until morning.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is in the heaven is displeased with her until he (her husband) is pleased with her.

~ Abu Huraira (Allah he pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the sight being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.

(All of the above appear in the Book of Marriage in Sahih Muslim’s; it is chapter 20, hadith #s 3366 – 3368.)

From Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, hadiths 1201-122, we read the following:
~ Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a man Invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

~ Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

Trimidhi has similar hadiths.
Other versions say that the woman must NEVER refuse sex to him, even if she’s in the stove (i.e., kitchen), or on the back of a camel, or tending to her children, etc., etc.

Note who narrated the hadiths. Abu Hurairah is one of the least liked, least trusted, and most misogynistic hadith transmitters ever, and many many contemporary, and even classical, scholars on women’s Islamic status have a problem with him. He’s narrated many other hadith in which women are nothing but sexual objects of their husbands. Whether this is my own opinion or not is not important. I’ve only recently been noticing this myself about Abu Hurairah.

So, the above hadiths clearly make it the woman’s obligation to serve her husband’s needs. They also don’t say ANYTHING about the woman’s needs for intimacy, or the man’s obligation to please his wife as well.

The commentaries on these hadiths say that "no, the woman CAN refuse but she has to have a legitimate reason, like some illness or menstruation or something."
Yeah, okay, but if she refuses him, there MUST be a reason. What if she's just not in the mood? What if she doesn't like him and is never turned on by him and doesn't wanna let him touch her because he mistreats her, or doesn't know how to respect her? What if she's just not comfortable at that particular moment? What if she's busy doing something *that she considers* more important than pleasing her husband's sexual needs at that particular time? But some hadiths make it obvious that even if she's "on the back of a camel" or "at the stove," she cannot refuse him. That's to mean, I'd suspect, that no matter WHAT she's doing, she MUST not say no.

I'm about to give the views of some scholars, so you'll see that these hadiths really have created much disturbance in the minds of most scholars, as well as controversy, and scholars are left with a desperate need to support it, since the hadiths above are classified as authentic.


those hadith are correct...and im also against marital rape...
but
the way u posted those hadith is just wrong...and talkin about a sahabah like that?
he was a companion of the holy prophet peace be upon him...
if a wife is doin sumthin more important to her than her husbands pleasure...
then she can just tell him that...dnt u think as husband and wife they should have that understanding?
im sure an understanding man will understand and agree with her...if she is sick..if she is too weak...she can refuse it simply..because its also haram to do something that will affect ur health...

nd tehn the non understanding men who have to much of an ego...
well their prob is their ego...nd its mostly because of a culture...
when a man gets married in teh east...he is now the boss and the wife is teh maid..she has to everything he says...nd because the women arent taught to stand up for themeselves...even tho Islam gives many rights to muslim women ....
the men wont give it to them...
its like they are programmed taht way...husband say wife do...
it wrong its tottaly wrong ...but if ppl had the knowledge of real islam nd didnt twist it to their own belief...
nd if he wont respect her she wont respect him...
nd will be a failed marriage...
marriage is all about compromise...


nd then men's needs are different to a womens...
i hope u all understand what im sayin cuz i dnt wanna elaborate on tht..
if she refuses him...nd keeps on refusing he might be obliged to commit adultery...isnt thats whts goin on here in america?
the wife gets too busy for husband..nd the husbands ends up cheating...yes its wrong for teh man to cheat but if the wife had attended to his needs he might have not cheated ...
soi hope u see my point through all this..

Roshina
04-07-2010, 02:22 PM
Hi, Darwitch! Welcome to the forum (if you're not that new, my apologies; I haven't been here as often as I would like to). Thanks for challenging my reply. I was hoping someone would.

those hadith are correct...and im also against marital rape...
but
[QUOTE=darkwitch;7899]the way u posted those hadith is just wrong...
Exactly what about them was "wrong"? Saying that there are hadiths that justify marital rape? Saying that most anti-women hadiths are narrated by Abu Hurairah? But that's a fact. I'm sorry that most Muslims don't know this, I really am, but what can I do about it?


and talkin about a sahabah like that?
he was a companion of the holy prophet peace be upon him....
What did I say about him that was "like that"? And why CAN'T I talk about him or any other "sahaba" "like that," whatever "like that" means, khorey? being a friend of the Prophet (pbuh) doesn't make them infallible or any more perfect than you and I are, sweetums.

In fact, did you know that when the Prophet passed away (pbuh), his daughter (Fatima, peace be upon her), came to Abu Bakr and said, "I want the property that my father won in the Battle of Khyber," Abu Bakr told her, "Sorry. No property for you because your father told me that prophets don't leave inheritance." Fatime fought him about it, cried about it, and remained upset with him until death. There's a hadith in which the Prophet said, "Fatima is a part of me, and whoever angers her, angers me” (al-Bukhari, 3437, and; al-Muslim, 4483). So can we say that Abu Bakr angered the Prophet by having angered his beloved Fatima?

That whole issue on Fatima's denial to her property is so special that it has been termed "Fadak" in Arabic; it means the Property of Fatima al-Zahra. Because of the Shiite Muslims' love for the Prophet, Ali, and Fatima (peace be upon them all), one might wanna accuse Shiites for having narrated this hadith, but actually, that won't be true. The hadiths about Fadak are narrated in Bukhari and Muslim, both of which are respected Sunni Sources more than Shiite.

The exact hadith reads:

Narrated Ayesha(mother of the believers),'After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima,the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr to give her the share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting)which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "the Holy Prophet had said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of the Holy prophet."

(from Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325, and Sahih Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4351).

Soo... I vehemently disagree that the Sahabas are these SPECIAL beings who cannot be challenged or who always did the right thing.

And Abu Hurairah? C'mon now, marey. He knew the Prophet for hardly 3 yrs!!! THREE years, khorey! And yet he's narrated THOUSANDS of more hadiths than even Aisha, the Prophet's beloved wife who was *married* to him AND is known to have been his *favorite* wife. Doesn't that make you wonder something? Please don't say no. It'll tear my mind, literally, because it'll prove that too many Muslims fall for whatever they're told without questioning and thinking about it.

if a wife is doin sumthin more important to her than her husbands pleasure...
then she can just tell him that...dnt u think as husband and wife they should have that understanding?

Sure they should talk about things, they should sit down like mature adults and tell each other how they feel - but, you see, my focus is on hadiths here, and it's not exactly my personal opinion (I am a strong supporter of communication; hence, the hadith that "a wife is cursed for not having sex with her husband when HE wants her to" doesn't make sense to me).


im sure an understanding man will understand and agree with her...if she is sick..if she is too weak...she can refuse it simply..because its also haram to do something that will affect ur health...
Sure, but these claims aren't there in the hadiths. We're told that she can refuse him if she's sick or something, but there's no mention of her NOT being in the mood! What if she's just not mentally comfortable with her husband and needs time?


... Islam gives many rights to muslim women ....

PERFECT! I'm SO glad you brought women's rights in Islam up :) You see, I'm waiting for someone to list all of the rights that women have *in Islam* (that means give justification for all the rights you tell me about, be they from the Quran or hadiths). So I created this thread that I haven't had a chance to speak thoroughly in just. Can you please list women's rights *under Islam* in that thread? Here's the link.

http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=160

And please don't forget to tell us how you know that (in other words, you can't just say such and such person told me, or I know this deep inside me, or my grandfather told me, or my Quran teacher told me -- try to find the sources. If you cannot find the sources, ask someone else to search them for you. Manana in advance, khorey :)).



nd then men's needs are different to a womens...
i hope u all understand what im sayin cuz i dnt wanna elaborate on tht..

No, I don't know what you mean. What are the different needs? That men want sex all the time and their wives not as much? So? Does that mean teh wife should always be sexually available to him? Why? What if she's not in teh mood? What if he's this vulgar beast who doesn't deserve to have his "needs" met by his wife? What if he beats her too much for her to apprecaite him in ANY way, or to respect him at ALL?

if she refuses him...nd keeps on refusing he might be obliged to commit adultery...
Sure. But what about when SHE wants it and he's not fulfilling her needs? ... There's no mention of a MAN being cursed for not addressing his wife's sexual needs, now, are there? Or do women have no such needs? Or are we supposed to suppress them?

if she refuses him...nd keeps on refusing he might be obliged to commit adultery...isnt thats whts goin on here in america?...
the wife gets too busy for husband..nd the husbands ends up cheating...yes its wrong for teh man to cheat but if the wife had attended to his needs he might have not cheated ...
soi hope u see my point through all this..

No, that's not what's going on in America. Men don't commit adultery here because their wives refuse them sex at home, LOL. Blame it on the woman again, blame it on the woman. She's too busy with her work, so her husband NATURALLY turns to other women, lol. And somehow, the other women aren't that busy. One wonders . . .

Roshina
04-07-2010, 02:24 PM
the way u posted those hadith is just wrong...and talkin about a sahabah like that?
he was a companion of the holy prophet peace be upon him...


Just thought I'd remind you that in my post on the "Sahabah" (Abu Hurairah), I said:

Note who narrated the hadiths. Abu Hurairah is one of the least liked, least trusted, and most misogynistic hadith transmitters ever, and many many contemporary, and even classical, scholars on women’s Islamic status have a problem with him. He’s narrated many other hadith in which women are nothing but sexual objects of their husbands. Whether this is my own opinion or not is not important. I’ve only recently been noticing this myself about Abu Hurairah.

That means I didn't say anything about whether *I* like or dislike Abu Hurairah.

darkwitch
04-07-2010, 06:09 PM
Just thought I'd remind you that in my post on the "Sahabah" (Abu Hurairah), I said:


That means I didn't say anything about whether *I* like or dislike Abu Hurairah.

Hi, Darwitch! Welcome to the forum (if you're not that new, my apologies; I haven't been here as often as I would like to). Thanks for challenging my reply. I was hoping someone would.

[QUOTE=darkwitch;7899]those hadith are correct...and im also against marital rape...
but

Exactly what about them was "wrong"? Saying that there are hadiths that justify marital rape? Saying that most anti-women hadiths are narrated by Abu Hurairah? But that's a fact. I'm sorry that most Muslims don't know this, I really am, but what can I do about it?


What did I say about him that was "like that"? And why CAN'T I talk about him or any other "sahaba" "like that," whatever "like that" means, khorey? being a friend of the Prophet (pbuh) doesn't make them infallible or any more perfect than you and I are, sweetums.


relating to someother posts u made...u said..
that who are we to judge other msulims...
so who r u ?
to judge abu hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him)?
and u said that u recently have discovered taht...so ur associating urself with it arent u?
im nt sayin he was infallible...every human sins..
but im sayin that the man was a friend of the Prophet nd was proved trustworthy.....
all these hadith that have been collected...they didnt just listen to a person sayin sumthin ....they went after sources they did background checks on teh people...so obviously many of his hadeeth are in great books likes riyadh saliheen....






In fact, did you know that when the Prophet passed away (pbuh), his daughter (Fatima, peace be upon her), came to Abu Bakr and said, "I want the property that my father won in the Battle of Khyber," Abu Bakr told her, "Sorry. No property for you because your father told me that prophets don't leave inheritance." Fatime fought him about it, cried about it, and remained upset with him until death. There's a hadith in which the Prophet said, "Fatima is a part of me, and whoever angers her, angers me” (al-Bukhari, 3437, and; al-Muslim, 4483). So can we say that Abu Bakr angered the Prophet by having angered his beloved Fatima?

That whole issue on Fatima's denial to her property is so special that it has been termed "Fadak" in Arabic; it means the Property of Fatima al-Zahra. Because of the Shiite Muslims' love for the Prophet, Ali, and Fatima (peace be upon them all), one might wanna accuse Shiites for having narrated this hadith, but actually, that won't be true. The hadiths about Fadak are narrated in Bukhari and Muslim, both of which are respected Sunni Sources more than Shiite.

The exact hadith reads:

Narrated Ayesha(mother of the believers),'After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima,the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr to give her the share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting)which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "the Holy Prophet had said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of the Holy prophet."

(from Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325, and Sahih Muslim, Book 19, hadith # 4351).

i have never heard that so i dnt have any maloomat in it..
but inshallah if i do hear i will surely tell u darlin...

Soo... I vehemently disagree that the Sahabas are these SPECIAL beings who cannot be challenged or who always did the right thing.


And Abu Hurairah? C'mon now, marey. He knew the Prophet for hardly 3 yrs!!! THREE years, khorey! And yet he's narrated THOUSANDS of more hadiths than even Aisha, the Prophet's beloved wife who was *married* to him AND is known to have been his *favorite* wife. Doesn't that make you wonder something? Please don't say no. It'll tear my mind, literally, because it'll prove that too many Muslims fall for whatever they're told without questioning and thinking about it.



Sure they should talk about things, they should sit down like mature adults and tell each other how they feel - but, you see, my focus is on hadiths here, and it's not exactly my personal opinion (I am a strong supporter of communication; hence, the hadith that "a wife is cursed for not having sex with her husband when HE wants her to" doesn't make sense to me).




Sure, but these claims aren't there in the hadiths. We're told that she can refuse him if she's sick or something, but there's no mention of her NOT being in the mood! What if she's just not mentally comfortable with her husband and needs time?



PERFECT! I'm SO glad you brought women's rights in Islam up :) You see, I'm waiting for someone to list all of the rights that women have *in Islam* (that means give justification for all the rights you tell me about, be they from the Quran or hadiths). So I created this thread that I haven't had a chance to speak thoroughly in just. Can you please list women's rights *under Islam* in that thread? Here's the link.

http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=160

i will try my best to post some up INSHALLAH

And please don't forget to tell us how you know that (in other words, you can't just say such and such person told me, or I know this deep inside me, or my grandfather told me, or my Quran teacher told me -- try to find the sources. If you cannot find the sources, ask someone else to search them for you. Manana in advance, khorey :)).




No, I don't know what you mean. What are the different needs? That men want sex all the time and their wives not as much? So? Does that mean teh wife should always be sexually available to him? Why? What if she's not in teh mood? What if he's this vulgar beast who doesn't deserve to have his "needs" met by his wife? What if he beats her too much for her to apprecaite him in ANY way, or to respect him at ALL?


Sure. But what about when SHE wants it and he's not fulfilling her needs? ... There's no mention of a MAN being cursed for not addressing his wife's sexual needs, now, are there? Or do women have no such needs? Or are we supposed to suppress them?



No, that's not what's going on in America. Men don't commit adultery here because their wives refuse them sex at home, LOL. Blame it on the woman again, blame it on the woman. She's too busy with her work, so her husband NATURALLY turns to other women, lol. And somehow, the other women aren't that busy. One wonders . . .



i hope this website clears ur misconception...
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/no_marital_rape.htm


im kinda runnin late...i gtg rite nw but inshallah lookin foward to ur reply...
have a good day..:Grin:
khudai paman sis!

Roshina
04-07-2010, 07:32 PM
i hope this website clears ur misconception...
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/no_marital_rape.htm


im kinda runnin late...i gtg rite nw but inshallah lookin foward to ur reply...
have a good day..:Grin:
khudai paman sis!


That website USED to help when I was a blind little idiot. That was approximately 3-4 years ago. Now I see answering-christianity.com as a website that is only trying to win converts by attacking the website answering-islam.com. Neither is a good resource for learning Islam, and I would advise against it to all those interested in learning and appreciating Islam for what it is. They give the most unreasonable claims and "justifications" (which is what THEY call justifications). They also are just as horrible and apthetic and apologetic as many other "Islamic" websites because they *try* to prove that "nothing's wrong with Islam" because whatever "IS" wrong with Islam is also wrong with OTHER religions :| In other words, they think that two wrongs make a right.

Really, they're not scholars, and, again, I don't think Muslims should turn to them as a resource for gaining knowledge on Islamic matters.

And I wasn't and am not judging Abu Hurairah -- although I don't recall ever saying we can't judge :| I mean, it's perfectly natural to form opinions and thoughts about certain ideas and people, and my "problem" might be expressing those "thoughts/judgments" openly. I don't find anything wrong with that, but if others do, I don't plan to apologize. Besides, Abu Hurairah HAS said a LOT of anti-women things, and I judge that as misogynist and foolish and unworthy of being paid attention to. Others might not, but I do. :)

The rest of your reply is very confusing because I think my comments got mixed up with yours. If I missed something, pleas accept my apologies in having you recapitulate them, khorey. Manana in advance!

darkwitch
04-07-2010, 08:42 PM
everyone has their own opinion...on every subject...MAY ALLAh give hidayat to all of us....nd it was nice talkin to u sister..:shakeshand:

Roshina
04-08-2010, 12:57 AM
everyone has their own opinion...on every subject...MAY ALLAh give hidayat to all of us....nd it was nice talkin to u sister..:shakeshand:

What?! That's IT?... We're DONE? You made all these comments and then I responded *with tons of questions* and you just ignore them? :lal5: That actually makes me wanna cry, I swear, 'cause I spent time on that :sad1:

But okay ... I guess . . .

It was nice talking to you as well, khorey :)

Oh, but I MUST say ... those weren't really my "opinions." I generally don't give my opinion unless I'm asked to. There are facts, then there are judgments and opinions. I usually like to give the facts first and then give the judgment of other people on it before giving my own, if at all.

Khayr, all's well. Maybe someone will respond when they have time, ka khairee . . .

Dinosaur Khan
04-08-2010, 02:50 AM
What?! That's IT?... We're DONE? You made all these comments and then I responded *with tons of questions* and you just ignore them? :lal5: That actually makes me wanna cry, I swear, 'cause I spent time on that :sad1:
Lol
Dont consider it as waste of time as i learned alot especially the point of abu huraira was interesting.

darkwitch
04-08-2010, 03:00 PM
What?! That's IT?... We're DONE? You made all these comments and then I responded *with tons of questions* and you just ignore them? :lal5: That actually makes me wanna cry, I swear, 'cause I spent time on that :sad1:

But okay ... I guess . . .

It was nice talking to you as well, khorey :)

Oh, but I MUST say ... those weren't really my "opinions." I generally don't give my opinion unless I'm asked to. There are facts, then there are judgments and opinions. I usually like to give the facts first and then give the judgment of other people on it before giving my own, if at all.

Khayr, all's well. Maybe someone will respond when they have time, ka khairee . . .



ohhhh
i thought u got bored wth it cuz u said that u couldnt understand my comments...
lol IT IS ON sis!!!
inshallah i will post the answers to ur question soon..
lol im kinda busy with my qurutagai(female lawyer rite?)
INSHALLAH plz pray for me...

Roshina
04-08-2010, 05:50 PM
ohhhh
i thought u got bored wth it cuz u said that u couldnt understand my comments...
lol IT IS ON sis!!!
inshallah i will post the answers to ur question soon..
lol im kinda busy with my qurutagai(female lawyer rite?)
INSHALLAH plz pray for me...

lol... no, no, it wasn't that I didn't understand your argument; it was that your messages were mingled with mine (you know, technical stuff) and I don't like re-reading my own posts 'cause then I see mistakes in them and cringe :jeez:


And, no, don't rush at all; take your time with it :) I just thought we were completely done, zaka me dasi wey!

Good luck with your lawyer; hope all's well, and we'll be praying for ya!

LOL @ "Qrratugai" :p yeah, that'd be a female lawyer in Pashto (though *I* am not a lawyer and not sure if have plans of being one).

Pa makha de gulono!

P.S. BORED with a topic like this? Never! :) I could honestly spend the REST of my life on topics like these -- and I will be, ka khairee.

Roshina
04-08-2010, 05:51 PM
Lol
Dont consider it as waste of time as i learned alot especially the point of abu huraira was interesting.

hahaha! Good it wasn't a waste then :D

Roshina
04-08-2010, 05:57 PM
^I enjoyed reading your posts too, always dont you dare say such a thing again. or else I will ban you. Yes I am an imaginary admin.

LOL! All right, I won't.

But shhhh there; don't say it out loud ;) Our beloved brother King ZaZai here won't be very happy to know you have positive thoughts about my posts (which, to him, mean I'm going to hell or something)!
:angel:

Laila
04-08-2010, 06:00 PM
LOL! All right, I won't.

But shhhh there; don't say it out loud ;) Our beloved brother King ZaZai here won't be very happy to know you have positive thoughts about my posts (which, to him, mean I'm going to hell or something)!
:angel:

According to him, we are all going to burn in hell...:sad1:

Roshina
04-08-2010, 06:02 PM
some user named wardag I think challenged you somewhere lol I forgot where it was.

lol. When you come across that thread/topic again, lemme know (on my wall, please, since I don't really check all threads as much as I'd like to ... not that much time currently, you see :) )

Roshina
04-08-2010, 06:03 PM
According to him, we are all going to burn in hell...:sad1:

LMAO!! I KNOOW! I hope he doesn't take what I'm saying here as attacking him or anything; I don't mean to. I just smile SO big when I read his posts, marey!

Did you read what he said to me in this thread where he asked for hadiths that contradict each other and I gave him some? He replied with something like "if I answer, do you promise to believe like me?" LOL!!! :) That's just too innocent.

Laila
04-08-2010, 06:06 PM
LMAO!! I KNOOW! I hope he doesn't take what I'm saying here as attacking him or anything; I don't mean to. I just smile SO big when I read his posts, marey!

Did you read what he said to me in this thread where he asked for hadiths that contradict each other and I gave him some? He replied with something like "if I answer, do you promise to believe like me?" LOL!!! :) That's just too innocent.

LMFAO!!! oh jeez, promise??? wow....i have nothing else to say :P i wished we had a emoticon that was laughing his butt off, i need it for this one :P

Roshina
04-08-2010, 06:26 PM
he is young.

Yeah, I can tell... which is kinda why I'm trying really hard not to try to teach him any lessons (yet?).

Dinosaur Khan
04-09-2010, 02:57 AM
he is young.

No he is not, i know him from another forum and facebook. Judging from his personal pictures and videos he must be around 24 or 25 year which is age enough to get maturity.
I think he is very emotional, not only religeon but he is also very sentimental about pashtuns as unfortunately he do not know pashto. We seriously helped learning him pashto on another site but ofcourse his immuturity cant b cured.

IamDZJ
04-09-2010, 03:04 AM
chewing gum ki tarah kenchtey jarahi hai kenchtey karahi hai..kamal hai.

Roshina
04-09-2010, 11:36 AM
I believe it is only legalized in Shia sect of Islam.
This is utterly untrue. It's allowed by many *Sunni* hadiths (which I've shared in my previous posts here), and if these same hadiths are accepted by Shiites as well, we shouldn't blame just the Shiites.

If I'm wrong, lemme know where you discovered/read that Shiites have "legalized" marital rape.

By the way, last year in April -- 2009 -- Hamid Karzai legalized marital rape using the same hadiths I've posted here. One of those "laws" was telling husbands to starve their wives if they refuse to satisfy their sexual needs! To see a list of other things he allowed/legalized that MAY be labeled as "Islamic," click here. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5080797/Hamid-Karzai-signs-law-legalising-rape-in-marriage.html)

And, no, this is not to say that just because he did it, it must be Islamic. I'm just telling you the implications of the hadiths on rape and forced sex on wives.

Master Khan
04-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Some of these hadiths are not true you know.
The Quran is the main book.
And what kind of a Animal would starve their wives.

Roshina
04-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Some of these hadiths are not true you know.
The Quran is the main book.
And what kind of a Animal would starve their wives.

I COMPLETELY agree, Master Khana, but the problem is ... *our* opinion doesn't count :)

But you've NO idea how pleased and happy I am that you, too, realize that the Quran is the MAIN source/book and hadiths don't count if they're going to say something as unreasonable or violent or cruel as that. Good job!

darkwitch
04-09-2010, 11:52 PM
To:Qrratugai




This is the answer for the right of the wife over her husband.

we always use teh hadith that a women cannot and should not say no to her husband when he approaches them Women are advised not to turn away from their husbands except if they are on their period or any other obligatory duty.And if they do angels will curse them.
BUT
The one about men is hardly mentioned.

Narrated Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As: "Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, “O Abdullah! I have been informed that you fast all the day and stand in prayer all night?” I said, ‘Yes, O Allah's Apostle!’ He said, “Do not do that! Observe the fast sometimes and also leave them at other times, stand up for the prayer at night and also sleep at night. Your body has a right over you and your wife has a right over you.” (Bukhâri)


In this hadith it clearly stated that a wife also has a right over their husband for

intercourse.




It is also the wife’s right that her husband should spend his nights with her. Ibn Qudaamah al-Hanbali said: “If he has a wife, he should spend one night in four with her, so long as he has no excuse.” (Al-Mughni, 7/28; Kashf al-Qinaa’, 3/144).



Shaeikh al Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: “It is obligatory for the husband to have intercourse with his wife as much as is needed to satisfy her, so long as this does not exhaust him physically or keep him away from earning a living… If they dispute over this matter, the judge should prescribe more in the way of intercourse just as he may prescribe more in the way of spending.” (Al-Ikhtiyaaraat al-Fiqhiyyah min Fataawa Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 246)

Daira manana khor

Roshina
04-10-2010, 02:31 PM
To:Qrratugai

This is the answer for the right of the wife over her husband.

we always use teh hadith that a women cannot and should not say no to her husband when he approaches them Women are advised not to turn away from their husbands except if they are on their period or any other obligatory duty.And if they do angels will curse them.
BUT
The one about men is hardly mentioned.

Narrated Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As: "Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, “O Abdullah! I have been informed that you fast all the day and stand in prayer all night?” I said, ‘Yes, O Allah's Apostle!’ He said, “Do not do that! Observe the fast sometimes and also leave them at other times, stand up for the prayer at night and also sleep at night. Your body has a right over you and your wife has a right over you.” (Bukhâri)


In this hadith it clearly stated that a wife also has a right over their husband for

intercourse.




It is also the wife’s right that her husband should spend his nights with her. Ibn Qudaamah al-Hanbali said: “If he has a wife, he should spend one night in four with her, so long as he has no excuse.” (Al-Mughni, 7/28; Kashf al-Qinaa’, 3/144).



Shaeikh al Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: “It is obligatory for the husband to have intercourse with his wife as much as is needed to satisfy her, so long as this does not exhaust him physically or keep him away from earning a living… If they dispute over this matter, the judge should prescribe more in the way of intercourse just as he may prescribe more in the way of spending.” (Al-Ikhtiyaaraat al-Fiqhiyyah min Fataawa Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 246)

Daira manana khor





But, sweetums ... these hadiths don't *curse* men who don't fulfill their wives' desires for intimacy, kana :)

Also, the last one is the opinion of a sheikh; it's not a hadith. I'm looking for a hadith that says that husbands who don't respond to their wives desires are cursed JUST as wives who don't are cursed, too.

While Ibn Taimiyyah made it obligatory on men to have sex with their wives when their wives want it, al-Ghazali and others have said that the FIRST intercourse is the woman's rights while all the rest is the husband's (I mentioned this in my first post in this thread.)

Whose words should we trust and whose should we ignore?

That's just to remind you that the opinions of the scholars aren't the same on this topic, just like on all others. Quoting just one doesn't help.

Roshina
04-10-2010, 02:34 PM
You are wrong.

It is now legalized in your motherland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5080797/Hamid-Karzai-signs-law-legalising-rape-in-marriage.html

I know it's legalized by Hamid Karzai. I even said this in my earlier post to you, HandsomePashtuna.

But what I said was: it has nothing to do with Shiism. We can't accuse Shiism or all Shiites for this legalization, my reason being that a Sunni hadith supports marital rape, just as any Shiite might as well.

In other words, being Shiite or Sunni doesn't have anything to do with the legalization of (marital) rape in a Muslim country.

darkwitch
04-10-2010, 05:11 PM
I know it's legalized by Hamid Karzai. I even said this in my earlier post to you, HandsomePashtuna.

But what I said was: it has nothing to do with Shiism. We can't accuse Shiism or all Shiites for this legalization, my reason being that a Sunni hadith supports marital rape, just as any Shiite might as well.

In other words, being Shiite or Sunni doesn't have anything to do with the legalization of (marital) rape in a Muslim country.

There is not a single hadith khor that says to force yourselves on your wife, it says she will be cursed of he goes to bed angry which is nt always the case. Sometimes of a wife just tells her husband that she isnt in da mood he will understand but she also has to understand that she has to set aside some stuff for him.
So your basically saying Islam supports marital rape? Or that scholars support it?
No where does it say to go to bed with her even without her consent..
And there is another point in marriage that is love and compassion for one another surely you must've heard the hadith im interpreting it since im on my cell And dont remember the exact words.
"He is the best amongst you who is the best towards his wives."
so the husband also has an obligation to be caring and compassionate nd be kind towards her.

Roshina
04-11-2010, 02:06 AM
~sighs~

Okay.

We clearly need to learn how to read and think critically. I've a post in mind about thinking/reading critically, which I'll try to post in a couple of days in hopes that it'll help some of us learn how to do that.