View Full Version : What's your view on Hijab?


Muslimah
05-24-2010, 09:07 AM
Salaam walaikom everyone,

The hijab/niqab/burka/no hijab is a huge debate between my family and I. I feel like the hijab is mandatory because the Quran tells us (and this is my interpretation) to guard our modesty and show nothing but your face and hands.

What is your view on hijab? How many of you cover? And if so, what do you wear? Hijab, niqab?

Manana

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 10:33 AM
Hehe are you the only one with any thoughts? I agree with you!! Why would some people say its an option?

Pakhtunzai
05-24-2010, 11:01 AM
Hijab is deffinently required. Wearing skinny jeans and expoising your body is unacceptable in Islam.

the covering of your buttocks is a must.

Omg, I don't mean to judge other girls but i've seen some ridiculously dressed people here and they cover their heads but with other part of their body completely exposed and act like a ****..and i'm like..whats the point? I would rather they don't wear the hijab because you give the true and good hijabis a bad name.

I really respect the girls who wear hijab for the sake of Islam and Allah..hijab is something to cover ones chaste and keep away the attention.

Put it like this if I was a girl I would wear it 100%:)

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 11:33 AM
hehe, I am sure its been repeated. But I am just trying to figure out how to talk to my mom.

For me I wear it because I know it is a must, but also because I am proud to be Muslimah and I want the whole world to know! :)

MazloomyarMaseed
05-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Wear it and Shut up

Just kidding.

I didnt know Hair can be so attractive

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 01:27 PM
My mom tried ripping it off my head in public and I got so mad. I screamed "what is your problem? why is it such a big deal that strangers see my hair?" and she was like "well you look like a terrorist"

lol so hair isnt a big deal...its just the stereotype. But quite frankly, its the strong wonderful hijabi women that are stopping those stereotypes. I would like to think I am one of those! hehe

inqilab
05-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Salaam walaikom everyone,

The hijab/niqab/burka/no hijab is a huge debate between my family and I. I feel like the hijab is mandatory because the Quran tells us (and this is my interpretation) to guard our modesty and show nothing but your face and hands.

My mom met with these 2 women from Pakistan. They both drink, go to clubs, don't wear hijab. Quite frankly, I don't think they're Muslims at all, but they call themselves Muslim. My mom asked them about me and why I wear hijab. Their response was that I am an extremist and hijab is an option, not a choice. Unfortunately, it just made things worse between my mom and I because now she is refusing to think anything other than what they told her.

What is your view on hijab? How many of you cover? And if so, what do you wear? Hijab, niqab?

Manana
:lal18:

walaikumsalam

Hijab is obligatory, covering the face has some controversy between the scholars.

But no muslim says hijab is not fard. This is how we recognize believing women from disbelieving women.

Hijab is a khimar that covers the head, neck and draped over the chest. While the outer garment covers the rest of the body including the legs.

Iqra
05-24-2010, 03:43 PM
Do you think it's fair to call a women who doesn't understand/realize the importance of wearing hijab a non believer?

Within Islam people have different levesl of Iman ..and those at higher states shouldn't look down at those who are in lower states and still learning things that are known to the more superior ...

inqilab
05-24-2010, 03:55 PM
Do you think it's fair to call a women who doesn't understand/realize the importance of wearing hijab a non believer?

Within Islam people have different levesl of Iman ..and those at higher states shouldn't look down at those who are in lower states and still learning things that are known to the more superior ...

I didnot say they were not muslim. i said this is how we recognize a believing woman since Allah addresses tell the free believing women to cover up.

For example, if i saw a pashtun woman who was not wearing hijab, while a white convert who was. I can recognize who is muslim with surety and who might be muslim but i will be in doubt.

Iqra
05-24-2010, 04:02 PM
I didnot say they were not muslim. i said this is how we recognize a believing woman since Allah addresses tell the free believing women to cover up.

For example, if i saw a pashtun woman who was not wearing hijab, while a white convert who was. I can recognize who is muslim with surety and who might be muslim but i will be in doubt.

Ok I am sorry .. "disbelieving woman/women"

I know you'd be able to recognize her ... but my point is about some people that don't see / know / understand the importance of hijab...for whatever reasons. It is not a good excuse, but apparently that is how it is right now. That doesn't make it right either ...but once again that's how it is...

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 04:07 PM
Many woman here don't wear hijab because they feel pressure to fit in, because they are scared of being successful and being singled out. I watch students in my class take off hijab because their friends are like "ohhh but you were so pretty without your hijab, now you're not pretty". To a 12 year old, thats TRAGIC! This society frustrates me sometimes. :(

inqilab
05-24-2010, 04:09 PM
Yeh, many things to blame, society, parents, the person themselves etc.

Since the world is dominated by unislamic acts, the reward for practicing islam is much greater. We live in tough times.

The colonialists try to attack islam and especially try to spread their immoral corrupt beliefs regarding women into our lands. I call this westernization. Most of their corrupt wars have been targeting our pure muslim women, they want our pure women to be impure like their western disfigured women who are less than animals.

So we have to resist it for Allah and for ourselves and the reward is great.

Iqra
05-24-2010, 04:10 PM
There are many different reasons why some people don't wear hijab... and it is sad bec of them not knowing/ being mislead or whatever other reason it is ...

but my point is...that some ppl are at different levels of understanding ..and those ppl shouldn't be looked down upon ... (I am not saying anyone did such a thing...but just pointing something out).

inqilab
05-24-2010, 04:10 PM
beauty is in modesty

Iqra
05-24-2010, 04:12 PM
Yeh, many things to blame, society, parents, the person themselves etc.

Since the world is dominated by unislamic acts, the reward for practicing islam is much greater. We live in tough times.

The colonialists try to attack islam and especially try to spread their immoral corrupt beliefs regarding women into our lands. I call this westernization. Most of their corrupt wars have been targeting our pure muslim women, they want our pure women to be impure like their western disfigured women who are less than animals.

So we have to resist it for Allah and for ourselves and the reward is great.

Alhamdulillah the reward is greater inshaAllah .. may we always see the truth inshaAllah.

Iqra
05-24-2010, 05:35 PM
Hijab is fardh ... I agree.

The other thing is ...as I've stated, everyone has different levels of emaan. So maybe they don't observe proper hijab as of yet, but we all walk in different paces... no ones perfect...

You said wise things timbaktu =)

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 05:41 PM
I hadn't yet told my dad I was wearing hijab when he had his heart attack. He was in the ICU and they didn't think he was going to make it. I asked my imam what to do. He said that the hijab is more than a piece of material and to remove it for the sake of my fathers health just that once. He said that modesty is far more than how you dress, but your actions are much more important. He also said that I would have a greater sin hurting my father than not wearing hijab. I removed the hijab that day because my dad almost died but opted for a hooded sweater. But my opinion with that is wouldn't I be sinning more being a liar? I have since told my dad about hijab, and his health is a bit more stable but far from perfect. He said he will never talk to me again and I am nothing but filth to him unless I quit wearing hijab. My mom tells me he cries everyday because of the hijab - but I refuse to remove it. Because if I did, then I would just be a lying daughter and do it behind his back. I would rather be honest and disliked, than liked for being a liar. But its soooooooo hard! :'( Just because of the hijab my parents will die hating me. I have tried EVERYTHING.

Iqra
05-24-2010, 05:52 PM
They will not hate you. Put yourself in their situation... it's really hard for them too. Some people are blessed and have supportive families with whatever decisions they make...other families don't understand why a family member has different ideas, it might even scare them or intimidate them.

But one thing, do not remove your hijab because of what someone says, trust me on this, you'll regret it.

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 05:54 PM
My hijab is never coming off! EVER! my parents are very much about image though. They said to me that I can be Muslim as long as I don't dress like one because they don't want people knowing. Its unfortunate, but its life!

Iqra
05-24-2010, 05:56 PM
Well sis, sometimes time is a healing factor itself... maybe they're not ready yet, but slowly inshaAllah they'll understand you .. maybe some will accept Islam InshaAllah..you really never know what Allah tala has planned ...but until then you be your good self inshaAllah.

Pakhtunzai
05-24-2010, 06:01 PM
I hadn't yet told my dad I was wearing hijab when he had his heart attack. He was in the ICU and they didn't think he was going to make it. I asked my imam what to do. He said that the hijab is more than a piece of material and to remove it for the sake of my fathers health just that once. He said that modesty is far more than how you dress, but your actions are much more important. He also said that I would have a greater sin hurting my father than not wearing hijab. I removed the hijab that day because my dad almost died but opted for a hooded sweater. But my opinion with that is wouldn't I be sinning more being a liar? I have since told my dad about hijab, and his health is a bit more stable but far from perfect. He said he will never talk to me again and I am nothing but filth to him unless I quit wearing hijab. My mom tells me he cries everyday because of the hijab - but I refuse to remove it. Because if I did, then I would just be a lying daughter and do it behind his back. I would rather be honest and disliked, than liked for being a liar. But its soooooooo hard! :'( Just because of the hijab my parents will die hating me. I have tried EVERYTHING.

Hey sister may Allah bless you for sticking to your hijab:)

But remember ALWAYS remain strong and patient, think about it why did islam spread so rapidly at the time of our beloved Prophet(SAW) because he had patience and spread islam with love and peace:)

Insha allah one day your family will realise your clean heart and see that this is the right path to follow..don't lose hope because many people are in the same boat as you and some have succeeded in spreading islam in their family:)

Sheenka
05-24-2010, 06:09 PM
i think wearing hijab and being in hejab is best in our religion and also in society, but not Chadari coz in islaam it didnt say to wear sack on ur head

inqilab
05-24-2010, 07:32 PM
i think wearing hijab and being in hejab is best in our religion and also in society, but not Chadari coz in islaam it didnt say to wear sack on ur head

Hijab is a word that describes the clothing, just like khimar and jilbab. these are not names of cloth, rather the covering itself.

So whatever fulfills the requirements of hijab, such as burqa, chadar, khimar/jilbab, abaya etc. is fine.

Sheenka
05-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Hijab is a word that describes the clothing, just like khimar and jilbab. these are not names of cloth, rather the covering itself.

So whatever fulfills the requirements of hijab, such as burqa, chadar, khimar/jilbab, abaya etc. is fine.


ya im agree with that but if u r covered from top to feet then thats fine but burqa is different u cant even see in islam it says ur hair must be covered and ur arms must be covered up to wrist however in burqa its completely different.

Sheenka
05-24-2010, 08:26 PM
^That is true, but do you agree that your supposed to cover your head and not expose your figure?
ya thats right im agreed with that

Roshina
05-24-2010, 10:28 PM
I feel like the hijab is mandatory because the Quran tells us (and this is my interpretation) to guard our modesty and show nothing but your face and hands.

Hm.... interesting. Where does the Quran tell us to show nothing but our hands and face? (Yes, I see that that's your interpretation, but I'm interested in which verses you interpreted that way, sis.)

Oh, and I thought you might be interested in this topic (posted on PF) as well. Is Hijab necessary? (http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=694&highlight=hijab) Very similar to this thread.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 10:29 PM
^I take it you don't wear a hijab? Do you think that the wives of the Prophet (saw) and he himself misinterpreted the Holy Quran?

Roshina
05-24-2010, 10:32 PM
^I take it you don't wear a hijab? Do you think that the wives of the Prophet (saw) and he himself misinterpreted the Holy Quran?

If I were you, I wouldn't "take" it to mean I don't wear hijab. Just so you know, not all girls/women wear the hijab for the same reason, and not all wear it the same way, and to not all girls/women is it important. Some of us wear it because we're forced to by family members and not by choice; others among us wear it because they want to themselves or are taught that it's obligatory; others don't cover their hair but are "modest" in other ways.

The point about "interpretation" was to Sis Muslimah, who said, "This is my interpretation." So I'm asking her which verses of the Quran she interpreted to mean that only the face and hands may be shown and nothing else.

Regarding hijab, it's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge topic that'll require long, long posts from me. I've spoken on it in other threads, and I've written several blog posts on it and will be doing so many more in the future. So be on the look out for those if you're interested in my views on the hijab, bro.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 10:37 PM
I take it that you don't think it is mandatory, then?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 10:56 PM
Qrratagai, would it be safe to say that the wives of the Prophet (saw) and he himself misinterpreted the Holy Quran?

Roshina
05-24-2010, 10:58 PM
I take it that you don't think it is mandatory, then?

That's correct. After a long, strenuous research on the history, practice, and purposes of hijab -- when hijab = headcovering -- I now stand among those Muslims who believe that the headcovering is not mandatory; it's merely optional. Again, this is ONLY if "hijab" = a headcover. The notion of modesty, I doubt anyone on earth will agree that modesty is extremely important.

Explaining my stance will require a lot of time from me, which I'm lacking right now as I'm extremely busy with a ton of other things. You may, however, read about my thoughts on the niqab at the following links:

- Khyberwatch - The Concept of Veil/Purdah in Islam (http://www.khyberwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?6362-The-Concept-Of-Veil-pardah-niqab-female-Dress-In-Islam)
- My Thoughts on the Niqab (http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2010/02/my-thoughts-on-niqab.html) (It's about the niqab (face-covering) and not exactly the hijab (head-covering), BUT the discussion in the comments goes into hijab as well.)
- Interview with Dr. Riffat Hassan (http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2010/03/interview-with-dr-riffat-hassan.html)
- Riffat Hassan on Women in Islam (http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2010/03/riffat-hassan-on-women-in-quran-and.html) (Note: Riffat Hassan isn't the only female scholar of Islam out there; there are many, many more. She happens to be only one of the many whom I admire. You're more than free to disagree with anything she says. But I agree with her on many (not all) things. If you need a list of scholars, both classical and contemporary, who involve themselves in long discourses of the hijab/head-covering or dress code of women in general, lemme know. I'll be happy to provide a list of many books, articles, and scholars. The only reason I have blog posts on Riffat Hassan is totally random - I was just on my blog and decided to post what I was reading. Otherwise, I've got a lot of other folks in mind to write long blog posts on.)

And some other links/posts on my blog, if you type in "hijab" in the little search bar at my blog. I'd do it, but I don't have time right now, so I'm sure you understand.

BUT right now and here in this thread, I must remind you that ultimately, if you look at the different translations of the Quranic verses that talk about modesty and covering/dress code, all are translated differently. Only one, the King Fahd interpretation of the Quran, makes it obligatory on women to cover everything from head to toe -- it even says, "Leave only one eye uncovered"!

Try comparing them all, and you'll see what I mean.

Nonetheless, I'll be back in this topic in a couple of months' time to explain my stance further, as I'm sure it's very confusing and unacceptable to many. (I don't mind the unacceptability of my thoughts, of course, but I won't mind giving explanations when I have time, ka khair wee.)

Iqra
05-24-2010, 10:59 PM
I am sorry but I don't think your last question is right... it's not the right approach bro ...

maybe I am missing the point in the Q

Roshina
05-24-2010, 10:59 PM
Qrratagai, would it be safe to say that the wives of the Prophet (saw) and he himself misinterpreted the Holy Quran?
No. I do not believe that the Prophet or his wives misinterpreted the Quran.

NEITHER do I believe that any scholar has misinterpreted the Quran, believe it or not, whether I personally agree with their conclusions or not. Again, I'll have to explain this later. In the meantime, I urge you to look into the idea of interpretation, what it means, and all. I plan to post on PF an explanation of what "interpretation" means, and what *I* mean by it each time I use it, so hopefully it'll be useful for at least some of us. I'm actuallying DYING to do that right now, but I can't. Every now and then, I write my thoughts on it in a document I've created for it, but when it's completed, I'll share it with y'all.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:04 PM
You don't need to go into that much detail.

If you don't believe that the Holy Prophet (saw) misinterpreted and the mothers of the believers, his wives, wore them because of Quranic injunctions then why go through the fuss?

Case closed.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:07 PM
^ Well, I'm known for "complicating" things, which I don't mind doing, frankly speaking.

Still, if you don't wanna discuss it further, that's fine. Case closed then, I guess. (For you, though, since it doesn't end here for me. You understand, of course. The fact remains, after all, that the Quran doesn't command that we cover our bodies from head to toe, leaving just the face/eyes/hands. And another fact is that ... culture plays a MAJOR role in our interpretations of Holy Texts. A third fact, I should add, is that ... today's interpretations and practice of Islam aren't exactly the same as those of the first couple of centuries of Islam! (Surprised? Don't be. It's only natural and normal.) I'll let you do the rest of the thinking.)

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 11:08 PM
Just to clarify, the prophet pbuh had many wives, they covered even their face and hands. This was a choice of the wives during this time. Please keep in mind the Quran was revealed to our beloved Prophet pbuh throughout his lifetime, but the wives did not necessarily dress according to Quran.
I have read that the wives covered completely, including face and hands because they were sort of put on a pedestal because they were married to someone of such importance. It was for their modesty, and for his and their protection.
I mean look at how many wives he had? The Quran says not to have more than 4, it even says it is preferable not to have more than one. So of course, things adapted, as did the lives of Muslims during the time the Quran was being revealed. Including the wives.
I am aware of the aya in the quran that says to draw a veil over they bosom. But I am also aware that when I ask my niqabi friend why they wear niqab, they say it is because they want to be like the prophets wives.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:12 PM
I am sorry but I don't think your last question is right... it's not the right approach bro ...

Oh, don't worry, khorey. If you ask me, this approach of asking simple questions instead of making assumptions and stating them as facts is faaaaaaaaaar better than many other approaches I've come across. I think Bro MWMN was just reminding us that the way the Prophet interpreted the Quran cannot be seen as wrong, since he was, after all, the living Islam.

Badlun
05-24-2010, 11:12 PM
The only HIJAB/PARDA or covering that I see in the verse on Hijab is to cover the bossoms which is a normal practice in the whole world that women usually cover their bossoms.
this is what the verse says

that they should draw veils over their bosoms

all other parts of the verse are about modesty etc.

And a friend in another topic has raised a very important issue that why Pashtuns always discuss Hijab why not other Muslims. It seems that Pashtuns have taken the whole responsibility to observe all religious injunctions in letter and spirit why others are busy in other more importnat things!

I believe Islam to be only a religion and not culture and dress is part of culture not religion.

My views on Hijab as posted in another topic on Burka are reproduced below.

Here on the HIJAB/NIQAB/PARDAH issue I would like to say that this hijab etc is really a conspiracy against Muslim women generally and Pashtun women specially. Dress should be decent one and according to the climate and situation. Thats all. Its not a big issue.In warm araes dress should be light and vice versa in cold areas. Similarly it should be formal, informal etc according to the situation.

Pashtun women should come out in rebellion against the dress code imposed upon them by their male masters and by the illiterate mullas and taliban. They should dress decently as done by any other woman whether Muslim or not. Religion has nothing to do with your dresses. Its part of the culture not religion. Religion deals with your faith, worship amd morality not with your dress. Do you think all Muslim women dress equally in the whole Muslim world. No there is a hell of difference.

Burka is the extreme form of enslaving a Pashtun woman. Its cruelty, barbarity and the ugliest form of a dress. How can you cover a human being in a sack like a packet of potatos or onion. Please discourage its use. Its a curse.

Pashtun women dress is an important issue. More than 90 % Pashtun women even cant show their faces in public. They have to cover their whole body like we cover a corpse in coffin. Saudi Arabia and Pashtun areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Pashtunland)are the only two examples even in Muslim world where women are obliged to cover their faces. This is a clear absurdity , an extreme stupidity in this modern era that you dont let a human being even not to show her face.

However we should avoid extremes of shuttle cock burkas and mini skirts. If A Pashtun woman is a profesional lady , if she is intelligent, if she is knowledgable, if she is intellectual and she is Pashtun by race and by practice , she sepaks Pashto, she writes Pashto , she teaches Pashto to her children - all these are important , not how she lives, where she lives , she wears skirt or paint shirt or kamees partug -these are non essential for me ,-however we should avoid both the extremes-mini skirt and shuttle cock burKa are two extremes , we should find a middle way especially when a Pashtun woman live in Pashtunland till the time comes when dress does not remain an important issue as we see nowa days in modern developed world of Europe, America etc.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:15 PM
This was a choice of the wives during this time. Please keep in mind the Quran was revealed to our beloved Prophet pbuh throughout his lifetime, but the wives did not necessarily dress according to Quran.

I tooooootally agree! But you mentioned in your first post that you interpret some Quranic verses to mean that everything but the face and hands should be covered, and since now you say that the Prophet's wives didn't necessarily dress according to the Quran's commands, I take it that you're saying that you just want to BE like the Prophet's wives, even though it's not necessarily what the Quran commands... correct? In that case, I have to remind you that next time you say "the Quran says," please try to give the verses you're referring to, Jaan :happy: I mean, one makes it optional (wanting to be like the Prophet's wives is not obligatory whatsoever), and the other makes it an obligation (doing what the Quran supposedly commands in clear words).

It's one thing to say that you want to dress like the Prophet's wives -- which is toootally okay and understandable and perhaps even commendable to some -- but it's nothing thing, I'd think, to say the Quran tells you to cover your face/hair/etc. No?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:18 PM
What you are doing sister is very dangerous. The fascinating thing is that you are doing it with full control over your senses. You are conscious. What benefit do you see? Where do you draw the line with "complicating" things?

Why do you take liberty with this? I mean if you were not a Muslim, I can understand, but as a Muslim you are misleading your fellow sisters.

To me there is no difference between a non-Muslim and you. At least they have dignity to not call themselves a Muslim. It seems that you are using your Muslim title as a way to mislead others. Don't do this. Be honest. I would say the same thing to you if you called yourself a Christian and used it to criticize Christianity from the inside.

In the end, you will not gain anything out this. You will only have confused yourself even more. It is things like this that lead to Atheism, if you are not an Atheist by now.

One thing I have noticed is that you question Islam at every junction, why? I don't know what you are up to but, it is only youself that you are hurting end of the day. No one else.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:19 PM
My views on Hijab as posted in another topic on Burka are reproduced below.


No, yaa Osho, daa gwatey bade maati shee ka link de raakra?!

(Translation: Osho, would it KILL you to share the link of wherever those views are posted?)

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:23 PM
@ MWMN:

I strongly disagree that what I'm doing is dangerous or that I'm hurting myself, BUT I can imagine why you'd think that, so all's well. If you see it as hurtful to others, then I guess I can stop posing the sort of challenges to other Muslims. Ahhh, no, wait, I can't stop. Sorry ... I may put it to a minimum, but I can't stop asking the kinds of questions I ask here and there ...

The sister did ask, after all, about our views on hijab. I gave my 2 cents in each post.

And, bro, don't you worry none :D I've got my boundaries drawn perfectly well.

As for calling oneself Muslim, ... must I remind you over and over, I'm Muslim. I see we don't hang around people with different perspectives very much, yeah? To me, THAT is more dangerous and lethal than thinking.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:28 PM
@ MWMN:

I strongly disagree that what I'm doing is dangerous or that I'm hurting myself, BUT I can imagine why you'd think that, so all's well. If you see it as hurtful to others, then I guess I can stop posing the sort of challenges to other Muslims. Ahhh, no, wait, I can't stop. Sorry ... I may put it to a minimum, but I can't stop asking the kinds of questions I ask here and there ...

The sister did ask, after all, about our views on hijab. I gave my 2 cents in each post.

And, bro, don't you worry none :D I've got my boundaries drawn perfectly well.

As for calling oneself Muslim, ... must I remind you over and over, I'm Muslim. I see we don't hang around people with different perspectives very much, yeah? To me, THAT is more dangerous and lethal than thinking.

With all due respect, we have not been taught this in Islam. If someone is a blind Muslim then so be it. If someone is a blind Christian then so be it. But you do not have the right to strengthen their faith by killing the foundation of their faith in the first place. Why? Because you don't offer an alternative. Just questions.

Tell me this, why are you a Muslim? Have you studied all other religions as you tell others to do?

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:33 PM
With all due respect, we have not been taught this in Islam. If someone is a blind Muslim then so be it. If someone is a blind Christian then so be it. But you do not have the right to strengthen their faith by killing the foundation of their faith in the first place.
What? Who says I'm killing the foundation of their faith? If that's how you understand my approaches, then so be it. I only ask questions and challenge them. If they can't answer my questions, they should just say it so instead of going in circles, trying to answer. If they don't like being challenged, they should say that out loud as well. I understand not all people are okay with being challenged, and I'm okay with it.

Those who don't like my questions/challenges should simply ignore my comments.

Tell me this, why are you a Muslim?

My reasons for being Muslim... where do I begin! I'm not sure if you'll understand, or perhaps you will misunderstand.

Maybe another time, bro.

Have you studied all other religions as you tell others to do?

Yes! Yes, I have - and I continue doing so today. Been only two years since I started doing this, so it'll take time to really understand them, and, of course, it's humanly impossible to study every single religion and that even in depth, but it's no harm in doing whatever we can or whatever we have time for. But since I'm into religions and that's my field of study, it's more convenient for me.

Oh, and I'd never, ever tell others to do something I myself am incapable of doing or don't do myself, bro. :) If what I'm encouraging is something I WANT to do but am not doing for whatever reasons, though, I'll say it so out loud.

But I'm glad you asked. I'm sure others were wondering the same thing.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:38 PM
A side note:

I think I should introduce myself to everyone in a separate thread so that they know what "devilish" posts to expect from me after they join PF! :S I feel like Muslimah must be thinking that I'm "attacking" her views, which isn't really my intention or desire, but that's just how I talk ... So, to Muslimah, please understand that this is very typical of me and I'm not targeting you, k?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:40 PM
So you are questioning Islam while calling yourself a Muslim? That is misleading. Tell people that you are searching. Otherwise, it is very dishonest of you.

When you have children how will you raise them? Which religion? Will you tell them that God exists or not?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:41 PM
One thing I have always appreciated with Atheist is that they don't mislead others.

Roshina
05-24-2010, 11:43 PM
So you are questioning Islam while calling yourself a Muslim? That is misleading. Tell people that you are searching. Otherwise, it is very dishonest of you.

When you have children how will you raise them? Which religion? Will you tell them that God exists or not?

What do you think "questioning" means?

But I can see why "searching" might be a better term than "questioning," even though I have no problem with either. In the end, I'm doing both, sort of, whatever either might mean to people.

As for my kids ... don't you worry none :D I have a plan in mind for them, and I'm sure my husband and I will know what to teach them and all. Still, as far as I'm concerned, no one on PF is (physically) a child... so we're safe! No young minds to mislead, if that's what you're thinking, wrora :)

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:46 PM
No, I want to know how you will be raising your kids. Why? Because I want to know how sincere you are.

Will you allow the adhan to be recited in their ears when they are born? Will you circumcise your son? Will you allow them to call themselves Muslims? Will you tell them that God exists?

Muslimah
05-24-2010, 11:47 PM
People can have a blind faith - as in everything they have learned in their religion is enough for them not to doubt, and to feel that what they are following is right. And there are people who do their research on their religions and other religions so that they feel comfortable in their religion. However, I do agree that if you like the religion you are a part of, or if you like a part of anything, you are positive about it.

It is okay to question Islam. Wherever there is a question - there is an answer. But I guess the way to go about it is in a positive way. I ask a lot of questions, but I do it with a smile because I know Islam won't let me down! :)

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-24-2010, 11:53 PM
That is the right attitude. Masha Allah, your faith is very strong.

However, what I am concerned about is when someone is question the foundations of their own faith and calling themselves part of that faith.

If someone asks you: Are you a Muslim? Say: no! I am searching. Don't say yes and then present yourself as a scholar and then mislead people. That is where my concern is.

There are many people rely on those who are 'educated,' like scholars.

I don't have a problem with questioning. The only thing is that you better have a solution and an alternative.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-25-2010, 12:26 AM
Hmmm...I don't think we are attacking her for 'what' she is not doing. Not at all. She is questioning people's faith. We are attacking (if you want to call it that) her by questioning her.

I guess if she can dish it she should be able to take it! What do you think? No?

I have a lot of respect for her analytic skills, she knows that. I am just coming to terms with her philosophy on Islam.

I guess what I am doing to her is what she has been to doing to everyone else.

Roshina
05-25-2010, 12:55 AM
@ Pishoo: Thanks for your post! Had you not said those things, I'd have had to make my response a thousand times longer! :D So, thank you very much.

Now ...

Firstly, I've never, ever claimed to be a scholar, lol. But the mere thought that someone would ever THINK that I would see myself as such actually makes me appreciate those who think like that. So, just so we're clear, I'm not a scholar. My idea of who can be a scholar is one that is even difficult for ME to understand, though I'm the one with who's thought of it, so I don't know who can be a scholar and who can't be.

Khair, that's just to say I've never claimed to be a scholar and never have made myself appear to be one. I'm sorry that the way I talk sounds so arrogant to some that they think it means I'm calling myself a scholar! No, if I could ever reach the status of a scholar - that even of Islam - it'll take me more than many, many decades.

Secondly, ALL I asked Muslimah was to give the Quranic verses she refers to in her posts. (And I ask this of ALL people, and PF members who've been here longer than a few weeks should know this by now.) And this is how far some of us took it -- so far as to say, "Don't call yourself Muslim if that's what you're not." That's such a silly and immature and ignorant suggestion to make, really, one that is one for me to just ignore instead of wasting precious minutes of my life responding to, but oh well. If we're all so miserably hopeless that we need long minutes of people's lives to explain to us what they're saying, it's worth it.
And note that my question is still not answered. In the midst of this whole issue, she forgot to provide the Quranic verses she was referring to.

You see, the reason I do that is to show that the Quran isn't as specific as we've made it to be. It's not. Another reason I do it is that ... well, ANYONE can tell us, "The Quran says that ...," but how do we know if it's true? If someone tells you, "The Quran says to kill non-Muslims," you shouldn't get offended or attacked; you should say, "Where does the Quran say that?" That way, you can read the verse yourself, read neighboring verses, understand its context, and figure out what made the person make such an unfair claim. You'll be able to have a discussion with that person and perhaps be successful in clarifying a major misconception about the Quran.

Similarly, when someone tells me, "The Quran says women should cover their faces" (lots of Muslims believe this), my response is: Where?

Thirdly, I call myself Muslim and I am a Muslim whether others like to see that or not. I'm surrounded by millions of different perspectives and by people I consider scholars, so, just so you know, when I go too much in detail into something, it's perhaps my way of imitating the people I admire. My daily life activities include spending hours with these people (whom, again, I consider intellectuals and scholars, and as I've said earlier, I'm very strict on who can be a scholar), having them ask me questions that take me months to figure out answers to. I'll come up with an answer, be it something that's directly from the Quran, and they'll challenge it. At first, it used to upset me and even offend me because I was like, "Leave me alone. I'm fine this way!" But now, years later, I see what they were trying to do to me. A professor in my department once gave me an article to read, saying he thinks I'll be interested in it, and said to me, "Come by when you're done with it, and we'll discuss it. What I am looking for is your critique of the article."

So I said okay. I went to him a few days later, after having read that article four or five times (it's called "Speaking for the Subaltern" by Gayatri Spivak), making sure I fully understood the author's purpose and understood it well enough to critique it. Turned out, I hadn't understood the article at all because he asked me questions that I had no answers to! Each question I tried to answer, he challenged me further and said, "Come back tomorrow."

It was frustrating at first, but this teacher prepared me to read things more critically, to be able to RESPOND to something after reading it, to be able to QUESTION something.

What I probably need to learn is to not impose the same style on other Muslims -- if it's imposing at all, that is. We commonly here the adage, "Ignorance is bliss," and though I myself can't imaging seeing ANY bliss in ignorance, I guess it's true and it works for a lot of people. I see it works for some of us here as well, and that's just really sad to know. But then again, if it's bliss for some of us, who is anyone to tell us it's sad.

I'm not a normal person (normal meaning typical, really), and everyone who doesn't know me well knows this on PF. I'm normal to close friends who know me well and who know HOW to respond to my comments, but people who don't know me well, it takes them a while to absorb my thoughts (yeah, sadly, some of them never do). So, when I challenge you, it's not because I hate you.

If you're not okay with it, ignore my comments everywhere. That way, we'll never have to get into "arguments" or discussions. A person can't have a discussion with her/himself alone, as we all know, so if you don't reply to me, I will understand that you just don't want to get into a discussion about it. That's fine with me.

Fifthly, Muslimah said in another thread that she converted to Islam and explained why. I noted several holes in her arguments and reasoning, so I pointed one of those out (in my response to her post), ending my post with a warm welcome to Islam to her and wishing her well. Then I also suggested to her -- as I do to all other Muslims as well as to Muslims who leave Islam -- to fully study as many religions as she can. I don't see the harms of having said such a thing, but apparently, it was an affront to some. Since I'm known to be blunt, I pointed out that only people with a weak faith will be afraid of studying other religions AND be intimidated by being questioned.

I've said over and over, if you don't know the answer to something, simply ADMIT it. Don't get offended. We're humans; we learn, and we don't know everything. People will ask you things you don't know answers to, and those questions may never have crossed your mind before, but why see it as an insult? Why feel attacked?

I will pose many questions and challenges on PF, as I do on all other forums I'm on as well as on my blog, and I will say things that many of us will not like. Eventually, you'll learn how to handle differences -- extreme, extreeeeeme differences -- and live in peace with those who are different from you, even if they have the same religion as you. But, noooooo, we'd rather ask questions like, "Are you Muslim?" as if someone's not being a Muslim will take away the meaning or purpose of the questions that are asked of you!

As far as Islamic philosophy is concerned, if you must know, my focuses within Islamic Studies include:

- hermeneutics (mostly comparison of classical and contemporary interpretations of Islam, with emphasis on women and non-Muslims in Islamic law)
- Islamic philosophy (emphasis mostly on the existence of God and on the formulation of Islamic law)
- gender relations

I question people's faith, and I don't see why I don't have a right to do this. What I have no right to do, my friends, is to tell someone which religion to follow, as that is a decision each human must make for her/himself individually and is nothing that someone else can make for her/him.

I'm an opinionated individual, and if some of us have a problem with that, ignore my posts. Really, that'll save you a lot of mental trauma, since I know that not many people can handle differences or my views. I'm always willing to have a discussion; I APPRECIATE being questioned - believe me, it feels fantastic to be questioned by people I consider intellectuals, but to be questioned by people who are just as "lay" as I am feels even better in that finally, I get to talk to someone on my level and not fifty levels above me.

For me, the more I'm challenged and questioned, the more I learn. There's SO much in life to learn that sometimes we don't know what to learn and how! So when someone asks me questions or challenges me, I know what to focus on for that moment and how to go about finding my answers. So anyone who thinks that I'd ever, ever be upset or feel attacked when someone questions my beliefs, think again 'cause it's certainly not the case with me. I accept all questions, and I take differences in beliefs to be an excellent way to learn something new and more -- and to appreciate my own beliefs because I know that no matter what happens, nothing and no one can take my beliefs away from me. The more I'm challenged, the stronger my faith in my beliefs becomes, and the better I feel about my own beliefs. Life would be so much more blissful if it was like that for everyone else, because to say that this is such a liberating and satisfying feeling is to say the least.

Peace.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-25-2010, 12:58 AM
I never said you are not a Muslim.

You question others allow us to question you.

Do you follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saw)?

pir_Rokhan
05-25-2010, 08:34 PM
People can have a blind faith - as in everything they have learned in their religion is enough for them not to doubt, and to feel that what they are following is right. And there are people who do their research on their religions and other religions so that they feel comfortable in their religion. However, I do agree that if you like the religion you are a part of, or if you like a part of anything, you are positive about it. It is okay to question Islam. Wherever there is a question - there is an answer. But I guess the way to go about it is in a positive way. I ask a lot of questions, but I do it with a smile because I know Islam won't let me down! :)

Muslimah

While you have the liberty to have any faith, may I suggest that having blind faith is neither a logical option nor aappreciated and not even useful pratically.

The simple reason is that for example if you have blind faith [by blind faith I mean faith without a reason, rationale, justification etc] then the very next question to you would be :

Well if you believe blindly in Islam then what is wrong with hindusim, christianity, jainsim, budhism etc?

It is at that stage that you would be compelled to have justification and reasons for your choice of faith and that is the first step towards a conscious faith hence claim to have blind faith will no more be valid.

Have a nice day.

Muslimah
05-25-2010, 08:37 PM
I personally don't agree with having a blind faith. I look at my mom and she is Christian, and says she is sin-free. But she doesn't know any of the prayers, never goes to church, and couldn't even tell you the 10 commandments. So I disagree with it. But I know people are comfortable like my mom just claiming to be Christian, and not caring to look further into other religions let alone their own to deepen their faith/understanding.

Mutakhasis
05-25-2010, 09:07 PM
The Qur'an tells us there are two ways to ascertain the truth: One is through revelation and the other is through the signs of Allaah. Remember, one of the uniqueness about the Qur'an is that it's a book of signs and not just science.

Islaam doesn't call for blind faith.