View Full Version : Kite Runner Debate thread


Master Khan
03-15-2010, 12:19 PM
I seen the Kite runner Film and I didn't like it.
Pashtuns were like bullys in it.

Roshina
03-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Question for those who didn't/don't like Hosseini's The Kite Runner: Can you give specific examples of how the author presented Pukhtuns in his book?

Every author writes what she/he *believes* is true, or what makes sense to her/him. Hosseini had his reasons for writing that novel and for giving the view of Pukhtuns that he did. If it was a Pukhtun author writing it, it would obviously have been a different perspective. I don't think it's fair to condemn him for his view at all. The portrayal MAY have been his personal experiences, it MAY have been based on his observations, it MAY have been what others told him -- it was certainly inspired by *something*, whatever it was.

For those Pukhtuns who don't agree with it, I say this: Write a novel in which you -- a Pukhtun -- give a better view of Pukhtuns. How many contemporary Pukhtuns have published any novels? How many of us find our representation in other people's novels/books intolerable? And how are we responding to it? How many wars have we witnessed? How much suffering have we lived and tolerated? And how much have we written on it? What have we told the world *about* ourselves? It's not Hosseini or anyone else's responsibility to write good things about Pukhtuns; it's *ours, the ones who ARE Pukhtuns and live Pukhtun lives and KNOW Pukhtuns better than any non-Pukhtun ever might.

We need to tell OUR story (or stories) from OUR perspective. Really, it's silly of us to expect ANY non-Pukhtun to portray us in a positive light to the world in a novel that *he/she* writes.

As for The Kite Runner, I had no problem with it; I loved and enjoyed the story, and I read it when my mom was in Swat, so almost everything I was reading in the book, my mom would tell me was happening in Swat! That was when the saying that "history repeats itself" was proven true to me. It really does.

Roshina
03-15-2010, 11:35 PM
How could you say such a thing? How can you? Did you see the way he portrayed Pashtuns? Do you know how Tajiks think of pashtuns? despite them being a ridiculous minority, they are lucky Pashtuns treat them good. If they keep on behaving the way they are, Pashtuns will be left with no choice but to pull the Hazara card on them.
Yes, I have read the book.
No, I don't agree that he should be harassed in any way for the portrayal he gave of Pukhtuns.

Please refer back to my post where I explained why, and, while you're at it, I am interested to know *exactly* what view are you talking about -- specific examples from the story in which Pukhtuns are misrepresented. I will respond accordingly then.

Shawonkey
03-15-2010, 11:56 PM
How could you say such a thing? How can you? Did you see the way he portrayed Pashtuns? Do you know how Tajiks think of pashtuns? despite them being a ridiculous minority, they are lucky Pashtuns treat them good. If they keep on behaving the way they are, Pashtuns will be left with no choice but to pull the Hazara card on them.
Yes, I have read the book.
No, I don't agree that he should be harassed in any way for the portrayal he gave of Pukhtuns.

Please refer back to my post where I explained why, and, while you're at it, I am interested to know *exactly* what view are you talking about -- specific examples from the story in which Pukhtuns are misrepresented. I will respond accordingly then.

Hosseini did make Pashtuns look like some savage beasts, even random people in Yahoo answers were asking like "Are Pashtuns really like that"

I guess either

A)You dont really care about Pashtuns
B)You didnt read it properly.

Lionking
03-16-2010, 12:00 AM
How could you say such a thing? How can you? Did you see the way he portrayed Pashtuns? Do you know how Tajiks think of pashtuns? despite them being a ridiculous minority, they are lucky Pashtuns treat them good. If they keep on behaving the way they are, Pashtuns will be left with no choice but to pull the Hazara card on them.
Yes, I have read the book.
No, I don't agree that he should be harassed in any way for the portrayal he gave of Pukhtuns.

Please refer back to my post where I explained why, and, while you're at it, I am interested to know *exactly* what view are you talking about -- specific examples from the story in which Pukhtuns are misrepresented. I will respond accordingly then.

Hi Sister,

I am new here so excuse my interruption.

You seem quite educated here, but you have committed a few fallacies and you are following a Doxa. You have a certain set of beliefs but you have no justification for it and you think it is obvious. But quite frankly it is not.

Seems like you are begging the question. You are asking us to go back to 'A' but 'A' has no answer and leads us back to B.

Laila
03-16-2010, 12:44 AM
How could you say such a thing? How can you? Did you see the way he portrayed Pashtuns? Do you know how Tajiks think of pashtuns? despite them being a ridiculous minority, they are lucky Pashtuns treat them good. If they keep on behaving the way they are, Pashtuns will be left with no choice but to pull the Hazara card on them.
Yes, I have read the book.
No, I don't agree that he should be harassed in any way for the portrayal he gave of Pukhtuns.

Please refer back to my post where I explained why, and, while you're at it, I am interested to know *exactly* what view are you talking about -- specific examples from the story in which Pukhtuns are misrepresented. I will respond accordingly then.

[quoteHosseini did make Pashtuns look like some savage beasts, even random people in Yahoo answers were asking like "Are Pashtuns really like that"

I guess either

A)You dont really care about Pashtuns
B)You didnt read it properly.

My father and uncles said the exact same thing....in fact Khaled Hossini was a guest appearence to two Afghan events in Southern California and the Pashtuns ripped him apart with their questions.....

sufi
03-16-2010, 12:53 AM
I am astonished that people don't realize the message of the book.

it was his attempt to show how brutal we are, did he mention how we are known to be honest? Hospitable? Ave guts? NO.

he did the opposite.


Ms. Doctor post some of the questions they asked I'm interested I hope you remember.

Laila
03-16-2010, 12:58 AM
No i wasnt at the convention, in fact it was about 5 months after the book was selling.....long time ago.

I still remember what someone said to me after the book got popular :cry:

Admin Khan
03-16-2010, 01:06 AM
which was?

Laila
03-16-2010, 01:10 AM
nooo i dont want to say on public, its really mean. I am sure he will get what he deserves.

Roshina
03-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Well, I feel as though the way that he made it seem like we treat other ethnic groups, have sex with them, we are on a power trip, we are always demanding. We are always abusive, and stuff like that.
We have some members here who are beyond racists, bash those who are not Pukhtuns (especially the non-Pukhtuns in Afghanistan!), so I think they prove Hosseini's "stereotypical" view of Pukhtuns right.

Other stereotypes about Pukhtuns include that our men are extremely abusive and controlling; The cities of Kandahar in Afghanistan and Banu in Paksitan are known (among non-Pukhtuns at least) for the practice of homosexuality, so I'd assume that's where the author got that from. (This is NOT to imply that I agree with Hosseini's view/representation of Pukhtuns at ALL, though. I'm only showing you why he did what he did in his book.)

And he is a Tajik, Tajiks are famous for such cowardly lies, why did he not use a uzbek as an example why Pashtun?
You do realize you're accepting a certain stereotype against Tajiks, right? If a Pukhtun wrote a book in which he portrayed Tajiks as "coward liars," what would you think of that book? What would you think of the author's personality and character? What would Tajiks think of it?

I'd think the Tajiks would say, "Just becuase some of us are cowards and lie doesn't mean we ALL do! This is an unjust view of our race! Shame on the author!"

My point? Hosseini is a Tajik, and note the way you're talking about Tajiks. So if you don't respect them, don't hold them in high regard, and accept the stereotypes against them (which might not be true and certainly don't apply to even most Tajiks), don't expect him to respect you or other Pukhtuns either; don't be surprised that he accepted with the stereotypes against Pukhtuns.

Let's not play the double-standard game here.

According to U.S soldiers ive met, Pashtuns are VERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Hospitable, In fact, A canadian who was by Helmand and Kandahar said, Mostly when the Pashtuns see us cold and etc, they sleep outside and have us sleep inside cause they want to treat the guest good. And this dude Hosseini is here indirectly, in a subliminal manner insulting us.
Yes, I understand that -- but that is obviously not the case according to Hosseini. Again, if you/we have no respect for Tajiks, we shouldn't expect them to respect us either.

Roshina
03-16-2010, 09:29 PM
How could you say such a thing? How can you? Did you see the way he portrayed Pashtuns? Do you know how Tajiks think of pashtuns? despite them being a ridiculous minority, they are lucky Pashtuns treat them good. If they keep on behaving the way they are, Pashtuns will be left with no choice but to pull the Hazara card on them.
Yes, I have read the book.
No, I don't agree that he should be harassed in any way for the portrayal he gave of Pukhtuns.

Please refer back to my post where I explained why, and, while you're at it, I am interested to know *exactly* what view are you talking about -- specific examples from the story in which Pukhtuns are misrepresented. I will respond accordingly then.

Hi Sister,

I am new here so excuse my interruption.

You seem quite educated here, but you have committed a few fallacies and you are following a Doxa. You have a certain set of beliefs but you have no justification for it and you think it is obvious. But quite frankly it is not.

Seems like you are begging the question. You are asking us to go back to 'A' but 'A' has no answer and leads us back to B.

Hi, Lionking! Welcome to the board!

Which parts of my post(s) don't you understand? I'll try to clarify my viewpoint.

Roshina
03-16-2010, 09:33 PM
I guess either

A)You dont really care about Pashtuns
B)You didnt read it properly.

Actually, I read the book *BECAUSE* I wanted to see how he portrayed Pukhtuns upon having read many Pukhtuns' opposition to it.

Do note that I haven't actually said anywhere that I *agree* with Hosseini's view of Pukhtuns or with anything he said at all. It's interesting how some members seem to assume that just because I *can justify* why Hosseini represented Pukhtuns the way he did, I must agree with him.

As I said in an earlier post, too many of us obviously have no respect for Tajiks or Hazaras or other ethnic groups within Afghanistan and/OR Pakistan, and that's obvious in so many members' posts here on PF; yet, when Hosseini wrote those views on paper and obviously made it seem like he's not fond of Pukhtuns (even though Pukhtuns obviously are NOT fond of Tajiks either!), we're sitting here condemning him for having done so. Why is this?

Lionking
03-16-2010, 10:11 PM
Hi, Lionking! Welcome to the board!

Which parts of my post(s) don't you understand? I'll try to clarify my viewpoint.

Respectful sister,

Before I point out your fallacies,

Elaborate on how you can support and defend someone who has pictured YOU in such a negative way to tens of millions of his readers.

Arent you a good cook? Arent you hospitable? Does your dad rape men? Was your dad a bully? Are Pashtuns known to be bullies? Did he once mention a single time how we are known to be such good people and very hospitable? Why did he use Hazara vs Pashtun? Knowing how sensitive that is? Why did he not use a Tajik as an example?


So lets see,

A Tajik uses a Pashtun vs Hazara, What a way to fuel tensions.

You made me get out my guest mode haha!

Shawonkey
03-16-2010, 10:14 PM
I guess either

A)You dont really care about Pashtuns
B)You didnt read it properly.

Actually, I read the book *BECAUSE* I wanted to see how he portrayed Pukhtuns upon having read many Pukhtuns' opposition to it.

Do note that I haven't actually said anywhere that I *agree* with Hosseini's view of Pukhtuns or with anything he said at all. It's interesting how some members seem to assume that just because I *can justify* why Hosseini represented Pukhtuns the way he did, I must agree with him.

As I said in an earlier post, too many of us obviously have no respect for Tajiks or Hazaras or other ethnic groups within Afghanistan and/OR Pakistan, and that's obvious in so many members' posts here on PF; yet, when Hosseini wrote those views on paper and obviously made it seem like he's not fond of Pukhtuns (even though Pukhtuns obviously are NOT fond of Tajiks either!), we're sitting here condemning him for having done so. Why is this?

Pashtuns are fond of everyone, we love everyone. But when someone starts ********ey withour heads, we know how to put them in there spot.
Tajiks are a ridiculous minority yet they are messing with a majority, They are making bad youtube videos about us, saying bad things about us, now even demonizing us in books, What more do you need? How do you feel knowing someone who is 20percent of the population is calling YOU Afghan e ghul? They dont even want to be called Afghan. They agree with the notion Afghan=Pashtun, how can you even dare to justify.

Dinosaur Khan
03-16-2010, 11:09 PM
"adab-e-mubashirat"

Roshina
03-17-2010, 12:01 AM
Pashtuns are fond of everyone, we love everyone. But when someone starts ********ey withour heads, we know how to put them in there spot.
Tajiks are a ridiculous minority yet they are messing with a majority, They are making bad youtube videos about us, saying bad things about us, now even demonizing us in books, What more do you need? How do you feel knowing someone who is 20percent of the population is calling YOU Afghan e ghul? They dont even want to be called Afghan. They agree with the notion Afghan=Pashtun, how can you even dare to justify.

It is *exactly* what makes me more and more sure each time I hear a Pashtun talking like this that what Hosseini did MAY not be correct but it's perfectly justified with the way we tend to behave often, with regards to non-Pukhtuns. Your post is a main example of this, and it's really, really upsetting to witness such racism and animosity in our hearts and minds towards others.

And, as I mentioned in another post in this thread, how many of us are willing to write novels that will give Pukhtuns a better image? What are our reasons for NOT doing it? What's keeping us? It was his novel, and he had the right to say whatever in it he felt was justified; we have OUR right to say whatever WE feel is justified as well when *WE* write. So let's get to it. I live to see Pukhtun publications, particularly in the west. NOTHING is stopping us but ourselves. But why? I don't know; I can't figure it out.

Start a novel or a non-fiction book; base it on you real life experiences with the Tajiks, Hazaras, etc., and publish the book. If you have a problem getting it published because you're accused of "racism," lemme know -- I'll help you get it published. Don't use the excuse that "but I can't wriiiiiiiiiite!" No. That's not a good enough excuse to not write what you think needs to be write. Hosseini wrote what HE felt needed to be written, and because I know the difficulty behind such a move, I commend him for it.

I maintain my view: It was Hosseini's impression of Pukhtuns; he "universalized" it by publishing a book in which he didn't portray Pukhtuns so positively. Still, it wasn't just his view; it was fueled by SOMETHING. I have Hazara friends who tell me of their experiences with Pukhtuns in Afghanistan, and, although I've never lived in Afghanistan and don't know how racism rules there, I know that what my friends tell me has a lotta truth to it.

Again, talk about stereotyping non-Pukhtuns but then when others accept and publish the stereotypes against us Pukhtuns, look how we feel. I really don't understand.

Also, I think some of us may have been SO angered by the negative things he said about us that we didn't get a chance to see the good things -- like the respectful way in which marriages takes place in our communities, or how the main character (God I forget his name?!) was willing to marry a girl in spite of the rumors about her; he respected her by giving her a name in the community, a positive name, and how did he treat her after marriage? That love and respect! My God! Something to die for, I would think.

And his desire to help his half-nephew? How he went through all the hell he could endure to get him to the U.S. and all those efforts he made to provide him a good home. C'mon now.

Still, the bad things had some truth to them if we look hard enough. I've stated this in another post here earlier where I talked about stereotypes and how some of them are "true" and some of them are "false." I myself witnessed this enmity and hard feelings to "servants" and others who worked for us, so the way he treated his Hazara friend wasn't all that foreign. I could TOTALLY relate to it. I remember doing those things myself when I was a kid. (I know, I know, I don't represent all Pukhtuns.)

Also remember that he had many other characters in the book who were Pukhtuns and who were very well-off and good humans. Lemme go through the review I wrote about the book to remember the names better, and I'll get back with the "positive image" of the Pukhtuns that we refuse to acknowledge in his book.

Shawonkey
03-17-2010, 12:26 AM
It is *exactly* what makes me more and more sure each time I hear a Pashtun talking like this that what Hosseini did MAY not be correct but it's perfectly justified with the way we tend to behave often, with regards to non-Pukhtuns. Your post is a main example of this, and it's really, really upsetting to witness such racism and animosity in our hearts and minds towards others.

It is not justified, someone associating you and your dad with rape is now justified? I must be living in the stone age, Excuse me. How is my post an example? The fact that I condemn such act of horror and I am upset you are using it as a way to portray me in a negative way? Not so fast sister.

And, as I mentioned in another post in this thread, how many of us are willing to write novels that will give Pukhtuns a better image? What are our reasons for NOT doing it? What's keeping us? It was his novel, and he had the right to say whatever in it he felt was justified; we have OUR right to say whatever WE feel is justified as well when *WE* write. So let's get to it. I live to see Pukhtun publications, particularly in the west. NOTHING is stopping us but ourselves. But why? I don't know; I can't figure it out.

I am, I will. Your argument is quite lame I must say,

You are implying "He said I hate Pashtuns in a veiled way, and since its his novel its okay"

Seriously now? Talk about fallacies. You need to stop following a false-dilemma.

Start a novel or a non-fiction book; base it on you real life experiences with the Tajiks, Hazaras, etc., and publish the book. If you have a problem getting it published because you're accused of "racism," lemme know -- I'll help you get it published. Don't use the excuse that "but I can't wriiiiiiiiiite!" No. That's not a good enough excuse to not write what you think needs to be write. Hosseini wrote what HE felt needed to be written, and because I know the difficulty behind such a move, I commend him for it.

You commend him for writing how we supposedly rape men and torture them? Seems like you are uneducated with the Pashtun,Tajik,Punjabi,Hazara conflicts.

He pours salt on our wounded relationships, and you are here applauding him. Wow, What a day to see.

I maintain my view: It was Hosseini's impression of Pukhtuns; he "universalized" it by publishing a book in which he didn't portray Pukhtuns so positively. Still, it wasn't just his view; it was fueled by SOMETHING. I have Hazara friends who tell me of their experiences with Pukhtuns in Afghanistan, and, although I've never lived in Afghanistan and don't know how racism rules there, I know that what my friends tell me has a lotta truth to it.

How do you feel about random people asking about if we are really as horrible as he says? Are you lacking common sense or something? So what you are saying is we Pashtuns are really that horrible?

Are you a Pashtun? Living in Afghanistan has nothing to do with this, A Pashtun from Pakistan is the same exact thing, He attacked our Pashtun nation of Afghanistan and Pakistan as a whole. And you are here applauding him, this is ridiculous.


Again, talk about stereotyping non-Pukhtuns but then when others accept and publish the stereotypes against us Pukhtuns, look how we feel. I really don't understand.

You are amusing. you really are.

Also, I think some of us may have been SO angered by the negative things he said about us that we didn't get a chance to see the good things -- like the respectful way in which marriages takes place in our communities, or how the main character (God I forget his name?!) was willing to marry a girl in spite of the rumors about her; he respected her by giving her a name in the community, a positive name, and how did he treat her after marriage? That love and respect! My God! Something to die for, I would think.

I already answered what I feel about his points above, the negativity outweighs the good.

And his desire to help his half-nephew? How he went through all the hell he could endure to get him to the U.S. and all those efforts he made to provide him a good home. C'mon now.

Yup, after we raped the younging, a Tajik saves him.

Woop, Superman!


Still, the bad things had some truth to them if we look hard enough. I've stated this in another post here earlier where I talked about stereotypes and how some of them are "true" and some of them are "false." I myself witnessed this enmity and hard feelings to "servants" and others who worked for us, so the way he treated his Hazara friend wasn't all that foreign. I could TOTALLY relate to it. I remember doing those things myself when I was a kid. (I know, I know, I don't represent all Pukhtuns.)

I am glad you don't, I would slap my self if you even thought you do.

Talal
03-17-2010, 01:19 AM
no books life is already miserable enough with engineering.

Master Khan
03-17-2010, 10:55 AM
I don't read books aswell,
I use to read joke books etc.

Roshina
03-17-2010, 11:25 AM
~sighs~ What can I say -- I gave my explanations :) Several times, in fact, lol.
I still find it funny and amusing that so many judgments are made so soon.

Still, I asked some questions which are still unanswered -- and so I'm still waiting, just in case someone can answer... :)
Manana.

Roshina
03-17-2010, 11:33 AM
Start a novel or a non-fiction book; base it on you real life experiences with the Tajiks, Hazaras, etc., and publish the book. If you have a problem getting it published because you're accused of "racism," lemme know -- I'll help you get it published. Don't use the excuse that "but I can't wriiiiiiiiiite!" No. That's not a good enough excuse to not write what you think needs to be write. Hosseini wrote what HE felt needed to be written, and because I know the difficulty behind such a move, I commend him for it.


Wow, I am astonished with your post. :o :roll:

Words cant sum up the level of contradictions.
Be a bit more specific about the "conradictions" you note in my post. Where are they? Paste my exact words.
I re-read my post in case you were right that it's contradictory ... but I don't see any. It's a reminder to Pukhtuns that when we write a novel, it belongs to us; it's OUR perception of whatever might be the case. So write one ... But, nope, who's interested in doing that? Too many of us would rather just sit here and condemn other people for doing what they did -- and we don't wanna make a move ourselves.

Sorry that everyone is so disappointed, but, really, I STILL don't understand, and NO ONE is trying to help me understand the reaction of so many Pukhtuns to the book. Most of us haven't even read the book but go by what others have said. C'mon now, maro, that's not gonna help in forming a better opinion (whether pro-Hosseini or his novel or anti-him/it) for a fruitful discussion.

Roshina
03-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Qrratugai always in the middle of these heated debates. :)
:D lol :mrgreen:
You wanna know something? ... It's always, ALWAYS interesting to see what people say/do if they realize that you disagree with then in SOMEthing, anything at all. You may not REALLY be disagreeing with them and only testing them to see if they know their stuff well enough, but their responses shock the heck outta you much of the time.

So far, no one has given me a good enough reason why I should say anything against Hosseini. Yet, I take the stance that Hosseini had *legitimate* reasons for whatever he did, and everyone assumes I'm in love with his novel and his portrayal of Pukhtuns; that I 100% agree with his view of Pukhtuns; that I don't care about Pukhtuns; etc. And that's what ALL the responses to my posts here have said. And I read them slowly and carefully and more than a few times to see if they might know what they're talking about, and I can't detect an iota of their understanding, or their attempt to see my point.

Now, when I said it's always exciting to test what people REALLY are like, who they REALLY are inside, I meant it. If I had said, "I HATE HOSSEINI! God CURSE HIM AND HIS PEOPLE! HOW DARE he do that to my beloved Pukhtuns!!!" and abused him in the worst ways imaginable, I BET you not a single person would've stood up to calm me down.

Why is that?

tor_khan
03-17-2010, 12:11 PM
So far, no one has given me a good enough reason why I should say anything against Hosseini. Yet, I take the stance that Hosseini had *legitimate* reasons for whatever he did, and everyone assumes I'm in love with his novel and his portrayal of Pukhtuns; that I 100% agree with his view of Pukhtuns; that I don't care about Pukhtuns; etc. And that's what ALL the responses to my posts here have said. And I read them slowly and carefully and more than a few times to see if they might know what they're talking about, and I can't detect an iota of their understanding, or their attempt to see my point.

Now, when I said it's always exciting to test what people REALLY are like, who they REALLY are inside, I meant it. If I had said, "I HATE HOSSEINI! God CURSE HIM AND HIS PEOPLE! HOW DARE he do that to my beloved Pukhtuns!!!" and abused him in the worst ways imaginable, I BET you not a single person would've stood up to calm me down.

Why is that?

Paradoxically, I don't think that you always swim against the tide Qrratugai. Sometimes you happily swim with it or at least let it carry you. That's my own opinion and you know I mean no disrespect.

When is a good time to put Pashtoons under the microscope and dwell on all those behaviours that we're so infamous for?

Hosseini doesn't do much new with his book when it comes to the portrayal of Pashtoons, but I don't think his book is about developing Pashtoon thought either. He has his prejudices, some ethno-cultural-racial perhaps, and he makes this quite apparent in his writing. He is also writing for a western not an Afghan audience. I just wish more people would realise this with *trendy* :roll: writers from the East.

On the surface, I'm indifferent because for all the crude stereotypes that comes out of Hosseini's writing, the same behaviours are true of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Panjabees, green-spotted aliens etc.

Right now perhaps (without going into victim mode) Pashtoons are amongst the most vilified, feared/hated and manipulated people on the planet. Everyday there are columns, essays, articles, news reports written about Pashtoons. The vast majority of it is negative. If this writing were to be believed then we are all opium growing cavemen hellbent on destroying schools, roads and any symbol of progression and development. Our language is rough and not worth learning and we make no active contribution to human development.

Given that profile, why shouldn't the world's most powerful militaries target us without discrimination?

None of this, of course, bothers Khaled Hosseini.

Shamaar
03-17-2010, 03:14 PM
It seems like people are getting a little off topic here... Maybe Admin Khan Sahib could separate the threads?

Anyway, I just finished reading this 7 book series by Stephen King. It's called the Dark Tower series, and I think it has to be one of his best works.

Stephen King's writing is always pretty dark but he leads into things nice and slowly here so it's not bad at all.

It's basically about a man's quest to find this tower and how at every step of the way he remembers (and regrets) the things he did in the past. It's like things keep repeating for him and he needs to learn from his mistakes.

Khair, I'll let you guys check it out. They're making it into a movie soon too.

Roshina
03-17-2010, 04:56 PM
Paradoxically, I don't think that you always swim against the tide Qrratugai. Sometimes you happily swim with it or at least let it carry you.
Well, should one ALWAYS swim against the tide, though, Tor Khana?
When is a good time to put Pashtoons under the microscope and dwell on all those behaviours that we're so infamous for?
That's my own opinion and you know I mean no disrespect.
Not to worry. I know you better than that, mara :) At least you know how to present your views in a way that makes it worth reading. Not everyone can do that.

Hosseini doesn't do much new with his book when it comes to the portrayal of Pashtoons,
I agree.

but I don't think his book is about developing Pashtoon thought either.
Does it have to be? Is it his job to develop Pashtun thought? Rather, is it his job to develop ANY race's thought at all?

Tor khan, do you notice the way Pashtuns have responded? Do you think it has been effective at all? How do you *think* we should respond to the book? What arguments should we be using? I mean, look around -- I can cite thousands of racist remarks on this board, so WE obviously have NO problem accepting stereotypes against other people, but when OTHER people accept stereotypes against *us*, we get all fired up.

I'm expected to be okay with that just because most Pukhtuns are okay with it and I'm Pukhtun, too, so I, too, should be okay with it?

He has his prejudices, some ethno-cultural-racial perhaps, and he makes this quite apparent in his writing. He is also writing for a western not an Afghan audience. I just wish more people would realise this with *trendy* :roll: writers from the East....
On the surface, I'm indifferent because for all the crude stereotypes that comes out of Hosseini's writing, the same behaviours are true of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Panjabees, green-spotted aliens etc.

Although I agree about the part that his audience is more Western, not Afghan, and Hosseini CERTAINLY has his biases (as do so many of us here and everywhere else in the world) and, in fact, his book is actually one of those that comes under the tag of "racism/racist," I can't help but saying this again: How many Pukhtuns are willing to represent *themselves*?
Right now perhaps (without going into victim mode) Pashtoons are amongst the most vilified, feared/hated and manipulated people on the planet. Everyday there are columns, essays, articles, news reports written about Pashtoons. The vast majority of it is negative. If this writing were to be believed then we are all opium growing cavemen hellbent on destroying schools, roads and any symbol of progression and development. Our language is rough and not worth learning and we make no active contribution to human development.
Maybe it's my extreme support and and applause for the idea of speaking up, be it against injustices or just to express your views, but I REALLY think that there's a devastating lack of Pashtun voice *locally* let alone universally! Let us speak up; let us get out there and write something meaningful and powerful AND give a better image of Pukhtuns; let us target the West as our main and most supportive audience. Let's stop playing the victim role for once and develop a bit of strength and confidence in ourselves to give ourselves a better picture in the world. If Hosseini could do it, we can, too. Most Afghans have *seen* war, and we have STORIES to tell! Why are we shying from the world and NOT sharing those stories?!

You wanna prove Hosseini's image of Pukhtuns wrong? Great -- then get to writing.

Given that profile, why shouldn't the world's most powerful militaries target us without discrimination?
So how do we respond to Hosseini's book, then? By coming on an online forum and cursing those who don't believe in cursing Hosseini or all Tajiks or Hazaras because of Hosseini's portrayal of Pukhtuns?

We REALLY seem to be in a need to learn the science of criticism.

None of this, of course, bothers Khaled Hosseini.
He lives a perfectly stable, happy, and successful life as a doctor in the West. It would bother him if he lived the average life of the average Afghan in rural Afghanistan.

Let's encourage the affluent Pukhtuns living successfully in the West to write on Pukhtuns' behalf. Maybe that'll do us a bit more good than would cursing each other on an online board. No? I might be wrong, who knows.

Roshina
03-17-2010, 05:08 PM
Seems like everyone made their points clear, everyone is against you
Hi there, GoPashtunGo. You seem like a new member. Welcome!

In that case, look around; you'll see that everyone's *not always* with me on the points I make in *most* threads. However, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, it makes me happy -- so long as there's room for a healthy and stimulating discussion through which members will *learn* from each other. I purposely raise controversial points SO that those who read them learn how to present their views in a respectful and positive manner, which means that they will NOT curse and abuse each other for any disagreements that arise during the discussion.

SO! If *I* don't have a problem with everyone who expresses views that contradict or don't support mine, you shouldn't have a problem with it either, bro! :)

yet you can not grasp a simple concept of hate in a veiled manner in such a time where our relationships have been brutal in the past.
Maybe you're right, and maybe you're wrong, that I "can not grasp a simple concept of hate in a veiled manner." But that's not the point. If you read my posts carefully, I stated the following (quite a few times, actually):

We CAN have a dialogue about Hosseini's book, but when people say, "He's racist! I HATE HIM! He harmed Pukhtuns! All Pukhtuns should hate him!" etc., you need to be more specific. Give specific examples. Saying, "He gives all Pukhtuns the image of being homosexuals" is not specific enough; give me examples. Let's discuss each of the major characters, analyze their personality (and connect it to their race and make conclusions about Hosseini's (covert/evident) aim); let's also discuss the different events that take place and ponder over who all is involved in those events.

I *want* someone to convince me that what Hosseini did was *wrong* and *unfair*. Giving me general thoughts doesn't help with that. I WANT to be convinced, and I'm saying what I'm saying because I want to know who REALLY know what she/he is talking about. So far, only one member seems to know what he's talking about.

The other brother tried to make you understand but rather then answering you are dancing with your statements.
Call it dancing with my comments as you wish, but I didn't find his posts helpful enough in making me understand. Why don't you give it a shot, bro?
How can you be so blind when someone has attempted to tarnish our image at such a time and your weak attempt to justify is the freedom of speech card.
Prove to me -- using specific texts from the book -- how Hosseini has tarnished our image. I'll be waiting for your response. YOUR response, YOUR point, YOUR reasoning, YOUR justifications.

Do you also agree what the Danish cartoon author did was right?
Whether I agree with the Danish cartoonist OR with Hosseini is *not* the point; the point is *our response* that I have a problem with. I COMPLETELY disagreed with the response that Muslims worldwide gave to the Danish cartoonist, JUST as I *completely* disagree with the response of the Pashtuns to Hosseini's book. It's FINE to disagree with him, and it's fine to criticize him for portraying us the way he did, but what's NOT fine is the WAY we're showing that "criticism" of ours.

Why cause offence? Have you ever taken some Psychological courses to know what these kind of intentions can cause to the human mind?
LOL. That's cute. Look who's teaching who psychology :)

It seems like you are complaining more than actually arguing you have yet to post a logical reasoning to mankind on why he should not be opposed, If your playing devils advocate, I must sadly say you fail quite miserably.
Prove to me where I complained.
I will then prove to you where I argued more than complained by posting my exact posts to your response. k?

You remind me of people who follow nihilism.
Cool. So?

pir_Rokhan
03-17-2010, 07:26 PM
The simple common sense fact which is not realised by the forum membersi s that in the world of academia mere disliking is not enough.It is considered as non academic approach to academic issues.This writer of the Kite Runner or any other book might have writtena biased book however the right approach to condemn or to show your displeasure is that Pashtuns should also write a book of the same calibre or may be better than that.

Showing resentment is exactly the same type of behaviour which we witness from some of our members while responding to certain threads which are against thought or domain of knowledge.Does Afghans have the intellectual guts to write a best seller which could compete the Kite Runner.?

Another point worth noting is that the real sincere person is the one who criticises you genuinly not the one who appreciates you fakely.The author might have writtenthe book with malintentions however a wise and mature approach is to note what type of wrong image is beign projected and whether it is based on truth or fiction.If its truth then we need to think over it and find out the causes and if it is wrong a lie then we need to counter it using the same medium,that is ,writing a book of that calibre not by just rantings.

As a stage drama of school standrd cannot compete a movie of holywood similarly Kite Runner cannot be refuted or cricised by writing an article.It has to be counteracted by writing a book if its calibre.

I hope the intelligent among our member would have got the hint I wanted to convey.

Admin Khan
03-17-2010, 07:50 PM
Guys, please stay on topic. I have now split the thread.


Thanks.

Master Khan
03-17-2010, 08:32 PM
I seen the movie of it and I think it was just kind of a hate towards Pashtuns of Afghanistan.
the movie was trying to said that Pashtuns are bullies etc..and that rape scene was just weird.

Shawonkey
03-17-2010, 09:15 PM
~sighs~ What can I say -- I gave my explanations :) Several times, in fact, lol.
I still find it funny and amusing that so many judgments are made so soon.

Still, I asked some questions which are still unanswered -- and so I'm still waiting, just in case someone can answer... :)
Manana.


I posted a few claims and merely responded to them.

Oh well, my stance is clear, Nice talking to you.

I will spectate and watch you and the other dude go at it, and if I feel as though it is absolutely necessary I will jump back in.

Roshina
03-19-2010, 12:14 AM
Before I get back into the discussion, let me share a few things about the pivotal role that novels (and stories in general) play in constructing and re-constructing a universal view about a people.

It is commonly known that the average reader will take each character as a *representative* of an entire group of people – a race, possibly; a people belonging to one same faith, maybe – and so when the author is writing, she/he should be careful. But what about when they’re telling the story of a particular people? Should authors STLL be careful? Sure. Are they obligated to? Not at all.

You see, there are ways to be careful when you’re telling a story. For instance, you could make your focal character whoever you want, but try to make sure that you have another character of *the same race and/or creed* so that your readers don’t end up making generalizations about your characters, so that your readers don’t go, “Ohhh! Since Character A, the main character, was an Egyptian and he disrespected his wife, all Egyptian men must be like that.” Or “Ohhh! Since Character A was Muslim and he was an alcoholic EVEN THOUGH he prayed 5 times a day, all Muslims are hypocrites.”

What you CAN do (I won’t say “should”) is, construct your story in a way that you will have more than one character who belong to the same race/belief system. So, you have this one Egyptian character who’s Muslim, give another Egyptian Muslim who’s NOT a hypocrite; give a Muslim of ANOTHER background who’s also an alcoholic; give a non-Muslim who’s also an alcoholic (or a hypocrite in other ways).

BUT! Doing that will mean stuffing your stories with so many characters that your readers can’t keep up with it and constantly have to go back to remember who’s who. But why burden yourself with such an arduous (and maybe even an unnecessary) task? Why feel obligated to have that many characters just because you’re afraid of the response you will receive from people? What if your novel is based on a true story (or many true stories) and you want to tell only that, while embellishing it with some fictitious characters, thoughts, scenarios, etc. Remember: This is *your* novel; no one else gets a say in it.

Anyway, so, you could also make sure that you tell your story in such a way that the reader will never be able to make any assumptions about YOU, the story teller. Give only one character of each faith/race, as you wish, but don’t make any judgments yourself; don’t allow your characters to make judgment – no, wait, that’s inevitable; you HAVE to do that … but you can do it by having one character say A and another character saying – A. Your doing this won’t expose your judgmental side to your reader.

But again! Why do you have to do that? Why is it that you feel like you HAVE to provide a “perfectly accurate representation” of the races and religions of all the characters you include in your book? Sure, it’s great for English assignments when your readers have to read your book for a class and then write some analysis paper on it.
For instance, if one of your character rapes another character of the same gender in your story, why does the whole world have to assume that ALL of the people who belong the race of the former are like that? But this reminds us of why the whole world views Muslims as terrorists because of the actions of a few. Alas, we seem to do this everywhere, in every case, be it books or movies or current affairs.

I cannot at the moment, but in my next post, I will try to connect this post of mine to The Kite Runner ; that will explain why I said this and why it’s relevant to what I’m going to say next.

Pukhtoon007
03-19-2010, 08:17 AM
guys when the danish cartoons came out under the banner of freedom of speech, the Muslims went wild started burning n destroying everything in sight with their fatwas, and all the danish had to do was look in the camera n go "i told u so" these guys are uncivilised hooligans. this goes for this guys book respond intellectuali or somthing.

n hu was is that used the swearword. pf is like our cyber home, how many times do u hear those words in ur house i dnt maybe u do , hu ever used it i hope its never used again.
persian girl qratu is not supporting u , she is supporting the guys method not his message. well thats how i see it so far correct me if im wrong.

the book is khaled hossienis perception of pukhtoons, most of it is proli not even his personal experience. n qratu maybe ur love for ur afghanistani friends is clouding ur judgment. helping u sympathise with the victims of the book.

the rape scene, i see a little different , the guy that raped the hazara kid was half german half pukhtoon n somewhere in the book he gave the main character a book about hitler. rape is commited usuali to feel powerful or superior to the victim. i the messege i get is that pushtuns think they are the perfect powerful n superior race in afghanistan. lol but im an idiot.

Dinosaur Khan
03-19-2010, 08:49 AM
I have watched the last 40 or 50 mins of film made on novel. Depiction of talibans was exaggarated. The talib guy was shown that he has made hazara boy as prostitute. It is wrong because talibans were the one who seriously tried to eliminate widely practiced bachabazi in afghanistan.

Pukhtoon007
03-19-2010, 08:55 AM
i agree with u there

*Mahzala*
03-19-2010, 11:38 AM
i agree with u there

A memorable moment for PF (and CK!). Khalko, teega warhawey! :D

Shayesta
03-19-2010, 07:01 PM
The much I enjoy reading your posts and mostly agree to it as well, I do have something to tell this time. My problem with Khaled Hoesseini isn't his novel, not at all in fact. When I read the book or saw the film, I didn't think of his views about Pukhtoons in particular; I just saw the film as an Afghan, which is about Afghanistan. My problem with him was he only showed flaws of Pukhtoons even though nearly of half of Kabul inhabitants have been associated with us Pukhtoons because of our hospitality mainly. My problem with this writer arise when I read his second novel, A Thousand Splendid Suns. Even there Pukhtoons were pictured as complete monsters. On one hand we were pictured as people with fake Pukhtoon pride feeling superior over others, but on other hand all these Pukhtoons interacting with Tajiks and even speaking Dari; Exactly same was case with The Kite Runner. At least that idiot should have brought Pukhto in his film if he loves to write about us oh-so much, don't you think?

And moreover, Khaled Hoesseini as an Afghan should know how sensitive Pukhtoon-Tajik issue is in Afghanistan, how did he dare in this case raise this issue twice? I have heard many anti-Pukhtoon Afghans say that both books describe true colours of Pukhtoons, but those very same people made a elephant out of a mouse when Pukhtoons in politics refused to rename Pohantoon as Daneshgah in Dari speaking areas in Afghanistan. If they have the right to make such a big issue out of such a small one, then why shouldn't we feel offended to such a image which is shown about us to entire world? And if we didn't respect Tajik's then we wouldn't have allowed their areas flourish this much and nor would we have allowed their language to be the dominant language in our country.

And as someone here mentioned a bit, Khaled Hoesseini is same Khorasani idiot and trust me when I tell you that Khorasani's are simply AMAZING at lying and brainwashing. Note that I am not talking about entire Tajik nation, but those who support Khorasan movement and that number surely is huge. I think we Pukhtoons in fact behaved perfectly fine. This is fiction but yet we were pictured as monsters and some Tajiks on Payam TV were saying Pukhtoons shouldn't exaggerate and just relax, but when Bachi Bazi in Tajik areas was shown on TV then these very same Tajiks couldn't stop ringing the studio and kept saying the presenter is trying to put a bad image of certain ethnic of Afghans, LOL. You tell me, how shall I think of understanding these people while they don't even understand themselves? And apparently even Americans are interested in 'researching' about homosexuality amongst Pukhtoons instead of stating facts about Bacha Bazi, so obviously America will love that film! Have you by the way read his second book? If yes then you still would say it's just his opinion? Is his opinion, mind, heart and life set on Pukhtoons only?

Roshina
03-19-2010, 11:11 PM
Only Shayesta proves that she has read the book.
Only SHAYESTA answers my questions!
Thank you, khorey; that’s exactly what I wanted to know. Specific details. I wanted to see who’s read the book and who hasn’t. I see not many of us have read it but depend way too much on what others have told us. When will learn that each reader is going to get out a different thing from the EXACT same book they read, the EXACT same experience they go through?

Roshina
03-19-2010, 11:19 PM
Depiction of talibans was exaggarated.

I disagree that the description of the Taliban was exaggerated. Try saying that to those who have witnessed their reign, both in Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa.

I read this book last year during the time my mom was in Swat (that was with the war and all). And each time we'd talk to her on the phone, we'd ask her how things are, what the Taliban are doing (we know we shouldn't trust the media; they don't tell the whole story, if a truthful one at all), what the soldiers and "security" forces were doing -- basically, what was going on in front of her own eyes. And it felt like almost EVERYTHING she was telling us was EXACTLY what I was reading in The Kite Runner, if not worse. In fact, I think The Kite Runner didn't do enough justice to the Taliban: they are far more beastly than our minds can ever conceive, and the author didn't show that well enough.

So, no, I don't think he exaggerated the Taliban's actions at all. (But I haven't watched the movie, so I can't say how the Taliban in the movie are.)

The talib guy was shown that he has made hazara boy as prostitute. It is wrong because talibans were the one who seriously tried to eliminate widely practiced bachabazi in afghanistan.

Khorey, don't think that just because the Taliban APPEAR to be against something, they REALLY are :) Did you know that the daughters of Muslim Khan, one of the current leaders of the Taliban in Swat, not only had a say in their marriages (they actually had a marriage of choice), but they also received some excellent quality education? AND that he lives in a mansion and has a television and everything else that he and his friend Mullah Fazlullah preached to the Swatis is haraam?

The Taliban don't allow the appearance of women in public, but they will WILLINGLY touch them the first chance they get, claiming, "It's because they're out in public when Islam doesn't allow them to be!" And by "touch," I don't mean anything gentle or "Islamic."

Roshina
03-19-2010, 11:42 PM
^
Make sure you read the link from Larawbar which has people with PHD degrees discussing the matter.
I shall wait for your response.

I read it, and my response is here (it's a response to your "friend," to you, and to everyone else who think things like “homosexuality is haraam in Islam, and Pashtuns are Muslims! So Pashtuns can't possibly be homosexuals!" In fact, quoting you, Bro GoPashtunGo:

How is that not specific enough? Pashtuns are 99.9 percent Muslim, Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, he portrayed us in a way that we rape kids when we have spare time, Get the logic?
Are you trying to say that Muslims can't be homosexuals, or that there are no Muslim homosexuals in the world? Because guess what -- there do. In the Arab world (it's filled with them, actually, mostly because of the strict codes of communication between males and female), there are MANY among Pashtuns (it's becoming more and more common in Swat, I've heard from friends in Swat, that elderly men have a *young, little boy* as their "partner"!), and so on.

Just a few posts before, you were laughing saying no one can point you to a source and all I read was you whining when everyone here has pretty much touched on the main points while you have yet to refute and offer a proper coherent rebuttal.

I'm still saying this; no one has STILL *proven* Hosseini wrong. I say this because of some previous points I made, including:
~ Does the author's job HAVE to be "developing Pashtun thought"? Rather, is it his job to develop ANY race's thought at all?
~ Look around -- I can cite thousands of racist remarks on this board, so WE obviously have NO problem accepting stereotypes against other people, but when OTHER people accept stereotypes against *us*, we get all fired up.
(And I consider this VERY important, this whole thinking that "others can't say anything bad about us, but we can badmouth ANYONE we want!" So expect it to appear in many other future posts of mine as well.)
~ I *want* someone to convince me that what Hosseini did was *wrong* and *unfair*.
~ It was Hosseini's impression of Pukhtuns; he "universalized" it by publishing a book in which he didn't portray Pukhtuns so positively. Still, it wasn't just his view; it was fueled by SOMETHING. We disagree with it, that's perfectly fine, but let's SHOW that we disagree by *creating* a book that's even better than his.

Also, it seems to me that you think I disagree with the Danish Cartoonish but not with Hosseini, even though both used their right to free speech/expression.

May I ask how you made that conclusion? Because as far as *I* am concerned, I said that *the response of Muslims to the Cartoons was absolutely unacceptable, ridiculous, and humiliating*.

And I repeat with my question of OUR (Pashtuns') response to Hosseini: What have we done about it? Who's willing to better represent Pashtuns in the literary world?

The fact that his message was, "He was a Pashtun, And I am Hazara and nothing can ever change that" and, him being raped, and Hosseini showing us like bullies who will take your lunch money, is unacceptable

I will be addressing this point in my analysis of the characters of The Kite Runner (in response to your "friend's" analysis.)

Thanks. You might be my student one day, you never know.
Sure, I guess. That would be a good experience; if ever possible, I look forward to it!
What do you teach?

Roshina
03-19-2010, 11:53 PM
When I asked for "specific" details (and Shayesta replied, bless her soul!), I meant specific points against Pashtuns. They'd include:

~ Amir’s father, a Pashtun, has an illegitimate son

~ Assef, a Pashtun gangster, rapes Hasan while Amir watches silently, and Pashtuns are known to be loyal friends who do not act cowardly

~ The Hazaras are humiliated, harassed, and even massacred by Pashtuns

~ Amir’s wife is a former mateeza, the Pashto term exclusively crafted for women who choose their lovers over their families

~ The Pashtuns in the story speak in Farsi instead of Pashto, which shows that they have no respect or concern for their native tongue.

However, these may be viewed as exceptions to the ways of the Pashtuns in general. It is not impossible – only disgraceful – that a Pashtun man have children outside his marriage, or that a Pashtun girl be (intimately) involved with someone before or outside of marriage. As Soraya (Amir's wife) tells Amir, boys can do whatever they want, even sleep around, and everyone can know about it, but no one condemns them for it; only females are penalized and considered dishonorable when they do something “bad.” This is a fact about us as well as many other Muslim societies, but few admit it openly. We Pashtuns seem to be a bit too exceedingly intolerant towards any negative side of us that is shown to the world; we see it as an attack on our culture, no matter how accurate it may be sometimes, and feel the need to respond even violently in order to silence those who initiate it.

As I said before, why are we not focusing also on the *good* things that the author points out about Pukhtuns? Do we SERIOUSLY expect to be portrayed as gracious, noble, kind, tolerant people (especially when many of us ourselves think so lowly of many other races and particularly by those who are not Pashtuns to begin with)? Now, why would we expect such a thing?

Roshina
03-20-2010, 12:21 AM
In response to the brother "Dr. Rahmat" who wrote the article "Pashtun-Bashing in The Kite Runner: A Psychological Operation," I have the following to say ... and many apologies in advance for the excruciating length(s) of my response(s), guys!

So, Dr. Rahmat says much of what everyone else has been saying or will ever say about The Kite Runner. For reference and convenience, the link to the article is: http://www.larawbar.com/detail.php?id=14649.

See, he names the major characters, describes them, and gives their qualities/personalities and weaknesses. However, he leaves out their strength and the “positives” that their characters could reveal about Pukhtuns. He highlights the negatives of the Pukhtuns and the positives of other races, while completely neglecting the positives of the Pashtuns and the negatives of the others! Why?

He says, for instance: “Hassan’s mother is ethnic Hazara.”
But he doesn’t add this very important fact about her:
She is a run-away; she is accused of having hated her son when he was born because she didn’t like the way he looked.

Here’s what I have to say about Hassan’s mother:
~ a “mateeza,” as we’d call her in Pashto, a promiscuous young woman who left her husband. We’re even told that, according to people in the community, she even refused to hold her own baby son right after he was born!

But when we're analyzing her, is it fair to assume that all Hazara women are like this? Would it be true? How have Hazara people’s response to this portrayal of their women? How HAVE they so far responded to this?

Let’s analyze the other characters. I will include some of Dr. Rahmat’s comments as well to make a point.

~ Amir, Pashtun, is a coward (never standing up for his “best friend”; his father, a Pashtun, scolds him for being a coward – since Pashtuns are not supposed to act cowardly.

Analysis: What does this mean? Cowardly son, brave father? And both are Pashtuns.
Dr. Rahmat tells us that “Baba wishes Amir would stand up for himself.” Yes, exactly. Amir is a child, and he happens to be a weak child. Are all Pashtun children weak, or are all strong? Or does it depend? What about their fathers? Are all their fathers “brave” and stand up for themselves always?

~ Amir’s father is rich in thinking: he is intelligent enough to form his own sense of thought about many things, including considering “stealing as the only form of sin” there is. And his reasoning! My God! One would have to be brilliant to think like that! And his son envies him, wishing he was like his father.

Analysis: Why do we forget this fact about Baba when we’re condemning this story? What percentage of the Pashtun population does Amir’s father represent? – opposing the Taliban, not being afraid to form his own sense of beliefs/thoughts, giving his son advice that we don’t commonly see fathers giving anymore, and so on?

~ The guilt of not saving his “best friend” from the beasts haunts Amir for the rest of his life, and even long after he provides a home for the child of “his best friend,” he knows that he hasn’t compensated for anything at all – he still owes a great deal to him for not being there for him on the day both of their lives changed forever.

Analysis: This is supposed to define his sense of humanity. He could have chosen NOT to feel guilty about it; he could’ve chosen NOT to adopt Hasan’s son – but he did.)

~ Hasan is Amir’s servant, and Amir is absolutely merciless to him at times. Heck, he won't even teach him how to read. (okay, I might be asking for too much when I say this. Really, HOW many of us teach our servants, or anyone below us, how to read/write?)

Analysis: HONESTLY speaking, how does the typical rich person treat the poor people in her/his neighborhood, or people in general? How do we typically treat our servants? Are people here REALLY surprised that a rich kid abused someone of a lower social status than he?

Also, can the Hazaras argue that “hey, hey, Hosseini portrayed all Hazaras as weak people who are dominated and abused by others!!! That’s not true! We can stand up for ourselves, you know!!”?
If they do say that, what would our response be in return?

~ Rahim Khan, a Pashtun, is very supportive of Amir’s writing and is like a father to him.
Dr. Rahmat writes: “He [Rahim] is business associate and close friend of Baba. He has a close relationship with Amir, who wishes Rahim Khan was his father. “There is a way to be good again.” This is said by Rahim Khan to Amir to encourage him to help Hassan’s orphan son Sohrab escape Afghanistan under Taleban and this way redeem himself.”

Analysis: What can Rahim's personality tell the reader about Pashtuns in general? SHOULD it tell anything at all? Why don’t we take Rahim to be a representative of Pashtuns instead of the man who has an illegitimate child?

~ Dr. Rahmat says of Assef:
“Assef is ethnic Pashtun. He has blue eyes and blond hair because his mother is German. He is an antagonist, the neighborhood bully, and firm believer in Adolf Hitler’s leadership. He raped Hassan. Assef, who later becomes leader of Taleban, took Sohrab (son of Hassan) from the orphanage in Kabul and forced him to prostitution. Eventually Amir adopted his half nephew Sohrab.”

Analysis: Assef is a typical bully, found in every corner of the world. (Yes, his raping a male is not typical in EVERY society, but the rest of his attitude is.) Are we denying the existence of people like Assef in our existence? 'Cause, sorry to break it to you, but they are/were in MY areas. I come from a village – and it seems like each village I went to had an Assef! The average Pashtun doesn’t come from a rich and well-developed, highly-educated community where everyone knows how to behave, and no one abuses another person.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 12:21 AM
One thing I noted in Dr. Rahmat’s analysis is that he opposes the view that Afghanistan is smothering from racial tension. Seriously?! (And, yet, as I'm about to say in a second, he contradicts himself here when he later says that Hazaras have always suffered from prejudice in Afghanistan.)

He reminds me of when non-Pashtuns say, “Pashtuns are in PERFECT shape in Pakistan. We’re not harming them, we love them, Pakistan loves them, they have equal access to everything in Pakistan; they have decent jobs” etc., etc.
That’s exactly what Rahmat Bro is doing in his analysis. And it’s not true.

At times, his post is unclear because I’m not sure if he’s standing up against the history that’s narrated in The Kite Runner, or if he’s just talking in general. For instance, he says:
“President Bush declared war, and U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan on October 7, 2001. Even eight months after that doleful October day, the FBI director Mueller was unable to identify the person responsible for the 911 horrific attacks on America. According to Prof. Chomsky, “The most” the FBI director could deliver was to “believe” that the idea of the plot might have emerged in Afghanistan, but its planning and implementation were done in United Arab Emirates and Germany. Yet, Afghanistan was invaded by the U.S. forces, and to the contrary United Arab Emirates and Germany were exempted from the U.S. military attack!?”

So, yeah.

Then he cites Hosseini’s legal note, which reads:

“This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places, and incidents either are product of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, business establishments, events, or locales is entirely coincidental.”

To which Dr. Rahmat says:
“His Afghan background tells us that using real names of the real Afghan ethnic groups (Pashtuns and Hazaras) is neither the “product” of his “imagination” nor is their “resemblance…entirely coincidental.”

Obviously, that’s his understanding of "fictitious characters and stories." But my understanding of the note is:
If you know an Assef in real life who is Pashtun by ethnicity and is from the area(s) mentioned in the book, it’s NOT the same one the author has talk about in his book; it’s a coincidence that that happened.

Generally, this is what they mean when they say this. :S Dr. Rahmat seems to get another meaning of it. I mean, ALL fiction books/stories have SOME truth in them; they're based on SOME real facts -- it's only that the author might either twist them, exaggerate them, or use them only a little in stuff he makes up to make his story more realistic.

In fact, oftentimes, a drama/movie will say, before starting, “Based on a true story.” And then a few seconds later: “These characters are fictitious.” I remember once laughing at this and asking my mom, “What? How can a drama be based on a TRUE story but have fictitious characters?” And she explained that it just means these characters aren’t necessarily the ones to whom this happened, or the names used in there are not necessarily the real ones of the people the movie/drama aims to highlight.”

Anyway, then Dr. Rahmat says:
”This method is based on a hidden agenda for blaming the Pashtuns (the majority of Afghanistan’s population) of oppressing the minorities (non-Pashtun ethnic groups).”

Again, is he implying Pashtuns don’t mistreat the Hazaras in Afghanistan? (It’s another thing, however, if he’s arguing that “Pashtuns might oppress the Hazaras, but the Hazaras aren’t angels either! They, too, attack Pashtuns every chance they get!” In that case, I’d agree; otherwise, no.)

BUT!! Interestingly, he contradicts himself by saying:

“Unfortunately, Hazaras have long suffered from discrimination in Afghanistan. During the Soviet occupation the term “nationality” was propagated among the Afghan minorities(non-Pashtun tribes). Discrimination is unfair because it ignores the individual merit. In Afghanistan it resulted from different political, social and cultural interests of the elite crossing through all major non-Hazara ethnic and religious groups, not the masses of the people.”

(It SEEMS like he's claiming that Pashtuns have never harmed the Hazaras, and I completely disagree. Hazaras would disagree as well.)

YET!! Somehow, he then goes on to argue that, no, they’re not discriminated against at all by outlining examples of some Hazaras who were treated very well, including Prof. Abdul Wahab Sorabi, Kateb Faiz Mohammad, and Safya.

Confusing much, ka sanga?

And then he elaborates on how Pashtuns are stereotyped in the book. These points, I’ve already addressed in my discussion of the characters.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 12:31 AM
Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, If you are believer you will concur here. Simple as that, so what is it going to be?
What? This isn't about what ISLAM says; it's about what we do *in reality*. Homosexuality may be haraam, but that doesn't mean there don't exist any Muslim homosexuals. You might believe that their practices make them non-Muslims, but that, too, doesn't mean they don't exist.


Such an excessive amount of EDUCATED people have went against him, How can someone "Prove" someone wrong,
Bro, don't feel like you HAVE to agree or disagree with people, no matter how educated they might be. Just because someone holds a PhD doesn't mean you should always agree with them; it certainly doesn't mean *others* should always agree with them.

Just because an "excessive about of education people" have denounced this book doesn't mean everyone else should, too.

Because of the way you have portrayed yourself, You are defending someone who has demonized us, in such a way that the non-Afghans are even worried what kind of Jungle type barbaric people we are, Quite obviously you are not rational enough to realize this.

LOL. I can imagine how irked you must be to hear that a Pashtun believes that what Hosseini did can be perfectly justified, but that doesn't make the view an irrational one, lol. But it's coming from you (someone who obviously hasn't read the book himself (yet?) and is saying that "an excessive amount of education people" are against Hosseini, implying that they're right in doing so, and those who aren't disturbed by it are wrong. So what can I say, other than that, obviously, what you consider rational and what I consider rational are very different. And that's PERFECTLY okay with me; I don't see why it should be a problem for you.

I will teach you anything you want.
Sorry, wror, but I change my mind now; your responses have not been fruitful at all so far, and all you can muster up is that "an excessive amount of educated people" said Hosseini is wrong, so he MUST be wrong? C'mon now...

However, we're all students and teachers. ALL of us are. And this forum is a great medium for us to teach and learn, so we have our chances to teach each other anything we can.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 12:36 AM
The simple common sense fact which is not realised by the forum members is that in the world of academia mere disliking is not enough. It is considered as non academic approach to academic issues.This writer of the Kite Runner or any other book might have written a biased book however the right approach to condemn or to show your displeasure is that Pashtuns should also write a book of the same calibre or may be better than that.

Showing resentment is exactly the same type of behaviour which we witness from some of our members while responding to certain threads which are against thought or domain of knowledge. Do Afghans have the intellectual guts to write a best seller which could compete the Kite Runner?

Another point worth noting is that the real sincere person is the one who criticises you genuinely not the one who appreciates you fakely.The author might have written the book with malintentions however a wise and mature approach is to note what type of wrong image is being projected and whether it is based on truth or fiction. If its truth then we need to think over it and find out the causes and if it is wrong a lie then we need to counter it using the same medium,that is,writing a book of that calibre not by just rantings.

As a stage drama of school standard cannot compete a movie of Hollywood similarly Kite Runner cannot be refuted or criticised by writing an article. It has to be counteracted by writing a book if its calibre.


OMG!!!! SOMEONE understood my point! YYYYESS!! God bless you, bro!!! And you said it so much better than I tried saying it :D :D :D Thank you so much; you've done me, and hopefully the other members, a great favor!

Shawonkey
03-20-2010, 12:43 AM
Qratugai,
I think you are downplaying this debate here. Those that agree with you, You cheer up and those that don't you frown.


Lets keep this simple, Do you think him representing Pashtuns the way he did was right?
A)Yes
B)No.

Knowing Pashtuns are victims of exoneration, I think it would be pathetic to make things even worse.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 12:54 AM
Qratugai,
I think you are downplaying this debate here. Those that agree with you, You cheer up and those that don't you frown.
Umm... I'd said something several times that NO ONE understood save one person -- or at least he's the only who showed he understood it.

I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me. I *welcome* disagreements. So it's not really about cheering whoever agrees with you or not. :| That's childish.


Lets keep this simple, Do you think him representing Pashtuns the way he did was right?
A)Yes
B)No.

Knowing Pashtuns are victims of exoneration, I think it would be pathetic to make things even worse.

Okay, this is silly. Have you read my posts? I wrote *everything* that's needed to answer this question. If you cannot gather that much from them, or if you gather the wrong ideas from them, then there's nothing I can do to help your incorrigible mind, bro :)

Shawonkey
03-20-2010, 01:01 AM
^Dont you think your opinion and views are flawed thats why everyone is against you and no body tends to understand you in this particular thread?

Roshina
03-20-2010, 01:02 AM
~ If I were to write a novel and have one of my Pashtun characters a beast who abused his wife/sisters/daughters, I expect to be slain for having done so, since it’ll make many Pashtuns think that I’m letting this ONE character be the representative of ALL Pashtuns.

~ If I were to write a novel and had one Pashtun character in it who was a nationalist and agrees that Pashtuns need independence from Pakistan or need to re-united with Afghanistan, the non-nationalist and the anti-nationalist Pashtuns WILL insult the hell out of me because, they’d claim, “Pashtuns are NOT nationalists! Not ALL Pashtuns are nationalists! We love Pakistan! This is our home!”

In their minds, I’ll be representing ALL Pashtuns with just *one* character. In their minds, that ONE character and her/his experiences, beliefs, behavior, etc. will be an expression of the beliefs/experiences/behavior of ALL Pukhtuns. It might not cross their minds that each individual has her/his OWN story to tell. I have a million to tell, many from experiences, some from observations, and others from imagination. Why should I be condemned for telling ANY story at all?

~ If I decided to make one of my characters a Quran teacher, or a mullah, who molests little children (girls and/or boys), the entire MUSLIM World will rise up against me upon reading them. Why? Because they’ll see it as my attempt to bash Islam, to show that “*All* Mullahs molest boys and girls, that all Quran teachers are disgusting people,” etc. And I may not have that intention: I may only be trying to show parents that, look, folks, don’t trust your mullah too much; just because he’s SUPPOSED to be pious and good doesn’t mean he’s any more trustworthy than any other man.

Never mind that those scenarios/stories will be based on FACTS, direct observations – I HAVE been a witness to molestation/rape crimes committed by Quran teachers. But how dare I say this out loud in a Muslim community, right?[B]

~ If I decide to narrate the events of the recent war in Swat – and the Taliban were BEYOND brutal, mind you; it won’t be exaggeration at all – I BET you Pashtuns will get angry that “Pashtuns don’t do this!” or those who support the Taliban still (if any at all) will say, “She exaggerated; the Taliban aren’t THIS bad.”

~ If I describe what the Pakistani army did to our women – including elderly women – in Swat and base it ENTIRELY on the circumstances that flooded on my relatives and other people I know/knew, the Pakistan-lovers (whether Pashtuns or not) and many Muslims in general will say, “OMG! How DARE she! Pakistanis are MUSLIMS, and Islam doesn't ALLOW for that! They RESPECT women! The army was in Swat to HELP Pukhtuns, not to humiliate their women! Eff this author; she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She just wants to give a bad name to Muslims and Pakistanis!”

And my response will be: “Say that to the Pukhtuns whose families have been demoralized by the PK army.”

And the readers will say, “But not ALL of the soldiers were bad! Only SOME!”

And I’ll say, “I didn’t say ALL of the soldiers were bad; I only showed the reality that there were disrespectful soldiers with no sense of humanity, pretty much just as bad as the Taliban.”

Yet, when we go around bashing American soldiers for what they’re doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, we get all happy and say, “YES! They’re HORRIBLE people! Kill them all!” Do we not realize that there actually DO exist some who are decent humans, who REALLY care about humanity?

~ If, in my novel, I included a Punjabi character who had no respect for, say, his mother, I BET you none of us here will stand up and say, “Hey, that’s not true! Some Punjabis DO respect their mothers, okay? In fact, they respect them so much that they’re willing to divorce their wives if their mothers say so!”

It might not cross the readers’ minds that I have NO attempt of allowing this character to be the representative of all Punjabis.

I need say nothing further in this regard.

Shawonkey
03-20-2010, 01:06 AM
~ If I were to write a novel and have one of my Pashtun characters a beast who abused his wife/sisters/daughters, I expect to be slain for having done so, since it’ll make many Pashtuns think that I’m letting this ONE character be the representative of ALL Pashtuns.

~ If I were to write a novel and had one Pashtun character in it who was a nationalist and agrees that Pashtuns need independence from Pakistan or need to re-united with Afghanistan, the non-nationalist and the anti-nationalist Pashtuns WILL insult the hell out of me because, they’d claim, “Pashtuns are NOT nationalists! Not ALL Pashtuns are nationalists! We love Pakistan! This is our home!”

In their minds, I’ll be representing ALL Pashtuns with just *one* character. In their minds, that ONE character and her/his experiences, beliefs, behavior, etc. will be an expression of the beliefs/experiences/behavior of ALL Pukhtuns. It might not cross their minds that each individual has her/his OWN story to tell. I have a million to tell, many from experiences, some from observations, and others from imagination. Why should I be condemned for telling ANY story at all?

~ If I decided to make one of my characters a Quran teacher, or a mullah, who molests little children (girls and/or boys), the entire MUSLIM World will rise up against me upon reading them. Why? Because they’ll see it as my attempt to bash Islam, to show that “*All* Mullahs molest boys and girls, that all Quran teachers are disgusting people,” etc. And I may not have that intention: I may only be trying to show parents that, look, folks, don’t trust your mullah too much; just because he’s SUPPOSED to be pious and good doesn’t mean he’s any more trustworthy than any other man.

Never mind that those scenarios/stories will be based on FACTS, direct observations – I HAVE been a witness to molestation/rape crimes committed by Quran teachers. But how dare I say this out loud in a Muslim community, right?[B]

~ If I decide to narrate the events of the recent war in Swat – and the Taliban were BEYOND brutal, mind you; it won’t be exaggeration at all – I BET you Pashtuns will get angry that “Pashtuns don’t do this!” or those who support the Taliban still (if any at all) will say, “She exaggerated; the Taliban aren’t THIS bad.”

~ If I describe what the Pakistani army did to our women – including elderly women – in Swat and base it ENTIRELY on the circumstances that flooded on my relatives and other people I know/knew, the Pakistan-lovers (whether Pashtuns or not) and many Muslims in general will say, “OMG! How DARE she! Pakistanis are MUSLIMS, and Islam doesn't ALLOW for that! They RESPECT women! The army was in Swat to HELP Pukhtuns, not to humiliate their women! Eff this author; she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She just wants to give a bad name to Muslims and Pakistanis!”

And my response will be: “Say that to the Pukhtuns whose families have been demoralized by the PK army.”

And the readers will say, “But not ALL of the soldiers were bad! Only SOME!”

And I’ll say, “I didn’t say ALL of the soldiers were bad; I only showed the reality that there were disrespectful soldiers with no sense of humanity, pretty much just as bad as the Taliban.”

Yet, when we go around bashing American soldiers for what they’re doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, we get all happy and say, “YES! They’re HORRIBLE people! Kill them all!” Do we not realize that there actually DO exist some who are decent humans, who REALLY care about humanity?

~ If, in my novel, I included a Punjabi character who had no respect for, say, his mother, I BET you none of us here will stand up and say, “Hey, that’s not true! Some Punjabis DO respect their mothers, okay? In fact, they respect them so much that they’re willing to divorce their wives if their mothers say so!”

It might not cross the readers’ minds that I have NO attempt of allowing this character to be the representative of all Punjabis.

I need say nothing further in this regard.


The point is clear and simple.

If a white person were to write a novel about how terrible Black people are, would there not be an uproar in the community?

Same rules apply here, Your logic is quite vague to be frank with you,

Once Mr Hosseini, threw out such an idea about Pashtuns, the majority of his readers now think bad about Pashtuns.


Its very simple.

Roshina
03-20-2010, 01:08 AM
^Dont you think your opinion and views are flawed thats why everyone is against you and no body tends to understand you in this particular thread?

Why are some of us SO obsessed with the idea that if people agree with you, you're right necessarily? Let's get out of that mentality, man. And I'm *not* here to get people to agree with me. I have no such intention. If you see my other threads, you'll note that yourself. When everyone agrees on everything, then there's nothing left to debate over.

Also, can you please stick to the topic and respond to the points I've made? If you haven't read the book, just don't respond then. That's fine. Let someone else *who has read the book* say something.

Further, if *I* don't have a problem with having "flawed views and opinions," why do you have a problem with them? ... I don't understand. Besides, you've yet to prove these opinions "flawed."

In all honesty, you have contribute NOTHING to this discussion besides your random remarks like "Everyone here disagrees with you; that's a sign you're wrong," LOL. And I sit here behind the screen and go, "Oh God, when will we learn?" And your other messages like "Hosseini portrayed us really badly, and now the whole world hates us! YOU ARE OKAY WITH THIS????"

Roshina
03-20-2010, 01:55 AM
Qrattugai,
It was a pleasure debating this with you. But I think at this point we both know our stances on the topic.

I respect your view tremendously, however, I dislike it and think it is illogical.
The feeling's absolutely mutual, wrora (i.e., I respect your view but consider them illogical and disagree with them completely). :)


What is your view on women wearing jeans in public?

Id like to discuss that, see you.
That has nothing to do with this topic but has been discussed elsewhere.

Master Khan
03-20-2010, 01:19 PM
Ok people lets stick with topic.

Are we speaking about the Kite Runner book or movie, I seen the movie but haven't read the book.

IamDZJ
04-05-2010, 10:24 PM
^Agreed. SMH, Pashtuns did put Hazaras in there spot.

Pashtuns are crazy,lmao.

you and khalid hussainy have alot in common.

Roshina
04-07-2010, 04:30 PM
Ok people lets stick with topic.

Are we speaking about the Kite Runner book or movie, I seen the movie but haven't read the book.

The themes in both are the same. I don't wanna watch the movie because what I've imagined in my mind from the book is just too beautiful for me to ruin with the movie :D BUT, sure, you may post your views on the movie if you want, too, since I'd expect that both are essentially the same plot/theme/etc.

IamDZJ
04-07-2010, 10:01 PM
he also did not need to cash on the details of his wedding night.

Zari
05-11-2010, 01:38 PM
kay...kite runner is ONE of my favorite books..ive read it 5 times...(without my dad knowing)....but ive never seen the movie....(my dad never let me)...and i dont knw y...:confused:

well anyways the point is that in the book...the taliban kill a bunch of hazaras....

did this actually happen??

*Mahzala*
05-11-2010, 01:54 PM
You can find some answers here: Kite Runner Debate thread. (http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=173&highlight=kite+runner)

Always do a quick search before posting a new thread, yeah dear? :)

Zari
05-11-2010, 01:56 PM
sowwie..:P

Zari
05-11-2010, 02:17 PM
lol....kay im double srry...i didnt knw there was already a thread about kite runner..:P...

imb706
05-11-2010, 02:48 PM
I saw the film, I thought it was alright. I think it´s where I first heard the word ¨pashtun.¨

imb706
05-11-2010, 02:57 PM
I think a lot of groups say that when they aren´t shown in the most positive light. Just look at films that portray Nazi germany, if filmed in Germany, the German government pretty much makes them have to mention the German Resistance. Things that don´t make you look like the hero usually offend you, it´s human nature.

شمله ور خراساني
05-11-2010, 03:06 PM
Question for those who didn't/don't like Hosseini's The Kite Runner: Can you give specific examples of how the author presented Pukhtuns in his book?

Every author writes what she/he *believes* is true, or what makes sense to her/him. Hosseini had his reasons for writing that novel and for giving the view of Pukhtuns that he did. If it was a Pukhtun author writing it, it would obviously have been a different perspective. I don't think it's fair to condemn him for his view at all. The portrayal MAY have been his personal experiences, it MAY have been based on his observations, it MAY have been what others told him -- it was certainly inspired by *something*, whatever it was.

For those Pukhtuns who don't agree with it, I say this: Write a novel in which you -- a Pukhtun -- give a better view of Pukhtuns. How many contemporary Pukhtuns have published any novels? How many of us find our representation in other people's novels/books intolerable? And how are we responding to it? How many wars have we witnessed? How much suffering have we lived and tolerated? And how much have we written on it? What have we told the world *about* ourselves? It's not Hosseini or anyone else's responsibility to write good things about Pukhtuns; it's *ours, the ones who ARE Pukhtuns and live Pukhtun lives and KNOW Pukhtuns better than any non-Pukhtun ever might.

We need to tell OUR story (or stories) from OUR perspective. Really, it's silly of us to expect ANY non-Pukhtun to portray us in a positive light to the world in a novel that *he/she* writes.

As for The Kite Runner, I had no problem with it; I loved and enjoyed the story, and I read it when my mom was in Swat, so almost everything I was reading in the book, my mom would tell me was happening in Swat! That was when the saying that "history repeats itself" was proven true to me. It really does.

Aunty, stop for once playing advocate of the devil and be real. It is not funny anymore.

Khaled Huseini wrote his crappy book long time ago. But it failed to get recognized. But then, after 2003 when the Benard woman from RAND wrote her advice to American government on how to promote democracy and secularism in Afghanistan, suddenly this book was revamped under supervision of some professional authors. And republished and widely promoted to encourage people to support the war in Afghanistan and finance NGO's.

The book is just a piece propaganda. And I don't believe a word of your story about Swat. I think you are making stuff up.






Published on Saturday, January 5, 2008 by CommonDreams.org (http://www.commondreams.org/) 'The Kite Runner' Critiqued: New Orientalism Goes to the Big Screen

by Matthew Thomas Miller

While The Kite Runner movie is now captivating audiences throughout the country-much as the book did four years ago-with its enthralling tale of "family, forgiveness, and friendship" and the promise that indeed "there is a way to be good again," very little has been written critiquing this work and its prominent role in the New Orientalist narrative of the Islamic Middle East.
Iranian literature specialist Dr. Fatemeh Keshavarz (Washington University in St. Louis) has classified this book as one of the recent works that she argues constitute a "New Orientalist" narrative in her book Jasmine and Stars: Reading More than Lolita in Tehran. (Dr. Hamid Dabashi of Columbia University also has written about New Orientalism and expatriates who serve as "native informers" or "comprador intellectuals" in respect to the Middle East).
Keshavarz broadly characterizes the New Orientalist works thusly:
Thematically, they stay focused on the public phobia [of Islam and the Islamic world]: blind faith and cruelty, political underdevelopment, and women's social and sexual repression. They provide a mix of fear and intrigue-the basis for a blank check for the use of force in the region and Western self-affirmation. Perhaps not all the authors intend to sound the trumpet of war. But the divided, black-and-white world they hold before the reader leaves little room for anything other than surrender to the inevitability of conflict between the West and the Middle East.
While The Kite Runner is perhaps less obvious in its demonization of the Muslim world and glorification of the Western world-what Keshavarz terms the "Islamization of Evil" and the "Westernization of Goodness"-than books like Reading Lolita in Tehran, these themes nevertheless clearly permeate the entire novel. While seemingly just a captivating story of Amir and his redemption through the heroic rescue of his childhood friend Hassan's son, Sohrab, the entire plot is imbued with noxious stereotypes about Islam and the Islamic world. This story, read in isolation, may indeed just be inspiring and heart-warming, but the significance of its underlying message in the current geopolitical context cannot be ignored.
At the most superficial level, the characters and their accompanying traits serve to advance a very specific agenda: everything from the conspicuous secularity of the great hero, Amir's father, Baba, to the pedophilic Taliban (i.e. Muslim) executioner and nemesis of Amir, Assef, clearly perpetuates the basic underlying theme: the West (and Western values) = 'good,' while Islam = 'bad,' or even, 'evil.' The inherent goodness of Baba and evil of Assef is repeatedly reified for the reader in some of the most dramatic and graphic scenes of the entire book. Baba valiantly lays his life on the line to protect the woman who is about to be raped, while Assef brutally rapes children and performs gruesome public executions in the local soccer stadium. Yet, perhaps the most telling attribute of these two characters is the particular national ideologies that they express affinity for: Baba loves America, while Assef is an admirer of Hitler.
The most pernicious element of this novel, however, is also the same aspect that American readers consistently have identified as the most heart-warming and inspiring: the story of the redemption of Amir thorough his harrowing and heroic rescue of Sohrab. In short, Amir, the successful western expatriate writer must leave his safe, idyllic existence in the U.S.; return to an Afghanistan that has been ravaged by the Russians (our Cold War enemy) and the Taliban (the representation of our new Islamic enemy); and rescue the innocent orphaned son of his childhood friend from the incarnation of evil itself, Assef. Amir's descent into this Other World, a veritable 'heart of darkness,' appears to be the only hope for its victims' salvation.
This adventurous and engrossing story neatly functions as an allegorized version of the colonial/neo-colonial/imperial imperative of "intervening" in "dark" countries in order to save the sub-human Others who would be otherwise simply lost in their own ignorance and brutality. These magnanimous interventions, of course, have nothing to do with economic or geopolitical concerns; they are purely self-sacrificial expressions of the superiority of the imperial peoples' humanity and ideology. When considered in this frame, the profound guilt that Amir suffers from his inaction during the violation of his innocent friend Hassan seems to represent the collective guilt of all "good" western or western-oriented people who watched idly while the Islamic bullies-epitomized by Assef-violated Afghanistan and the innocent western-oriented people like Baba and Amir. Of course, the implication then is that we also must redeem ourselves by returning and "rescuing" the people there from the Assefs of Afghanistan-this is our "way to be good again," in the words Khaled Hosseini's character Rahim Khan. This new recapitulation of the old "white man's [now, western] burden" narrative, when combined with the "Westernization of Goodness" and "Islamization of Evil" clearly present throughout the novel, provides a superb ideological framework upon which to justify our present occupation and future military interventions in Afghanistan.
It certainly does not take much imagination to expand this story and its message to the entire Islamic Middle East-especially when we combine this work's portrayal of Afghanistan with the other New Orientalist works on the Islamic Middle East, such as Azar Nafisi's popular Reading Lolita in Tehran, Asne Seierstad's The Bookseller of Kabul, Geraldine Brooks' Nine Parts of Desire: The Hidden World of Islamic Women, and even scholarly works like Bernard Lewis' What Went Wrong? Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response. If what these works say about Islam and Islamic countries is the whole truth, then surely the continued and expanding U.S. military presence in that region is a good thing, right?
For anyone who has been to, or studies the Middle East, it is obvious that these accounts are gross distortions of the full reality on the ground there. It is not wrong to identify and write about the flaws of a particular country, religion, or ideology, but it is wrong and dishonest when an author's writings systematically dehumanizes and reduces an entire culture and religion to the actions of its extremists. Especially, when these are the same people and countries that our leaders tell us need to be attacked and occupied by our military.
Matthew Thomas Miller is a graduate student in Islamic and Near Eastern Studies at Washington University in St. Louis.
Please see the following resources for a more detailed discussion of New Orientalism:
Keshavarz, Fatemeh. Banishing the Ghosts of Iran. Chronicle of Higher Education, Vol. 53, Issue 45.
Keshavarz, Fatemeh. Jasmine and Stars: Reading More than Lolita in Tehran. Chapel Hill, N.C.: University of North Carolina Press, 2007.
Keshavarz, Fatemeh. Interview. Jasmine and Stars: New Orientalist Narratives. ZNet. 2007 <http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13448>.
Dabashi, Hamid. "Native Informers and the Making of the New American Empire." Al-Ahram Weekly 1 June 2007. <http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/797/special.htm>.
Dabashi, Hamid. Interview. Lolita and Beyond . ZNet. 2007. <http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10707>

Master Khan
05-11-2010, 03:11 PM
I just don't like this film, its makes pashtuns look bad and evil.
Pashtuns are the best people in Afghanistan.

imb706
05-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Commondreams isn´t my favorite source I´d say. It heavily censors material critical of the Democratic Party during national elections, and it´s run by a strange mix of progressives and throwback old democrat conservatives. It´s just weird.

Zari
05-12-2010, 03:06 PM
LOL...i soo agree i wasnt allowed to watch it..:(...

my dad wouldnt let me...

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 08:32 AM
Well, the book is based on many true facts that he himself and anyone of us have experienced. The behave toward Hazara minorities, the war, the inter-ethnical conflicts and to all of these things even raping and homosexuality belong to this negative key-collections. We can self see everyday articles about Bacha Bazi, homosexuality, raping etc. No one can deny that. The book was written before anyone have ever read something about Bacha Bazi or homosexuality in Afghanistan. So wasnt Husseini right with his novel? The novel is a critical work on the society of Afghanistan. Thats all. Homosexuality is wide spreaden. There are many articles where it stated that 60% of male in Afghanistan do practize homosexuality. Some of the warlords have adoptet some dirty habbits to keep young boys (''Dancing Boys'') and sleep with them just because they dont like women or see them as dirty.

And yes, he is from father a Tajik and from mother a Pashtun.

Ps: Taliban are gays. Why the prefere to be with men instead with women? Why they produce gay porns?

Pashtun_Ultranationalist
05-20-2011, 09:59 AM
The movie was directed by a CIA agent. Google it for more info.

The author paints the Pashtun as a Evil person and portrays the Hazara as a oppressed nation. Then the whole Anti-Russian side to it as well, which is abit unfair. I havnt read the book but seen the movie.

Nokia_Apridy
05-20-2011, 10:39 AM
da Pic ka chay PUKHTUN YA BARWA KHUDALAY DA REKHTYA DASEY DA ?

ka Rekhtya na da bya AFGHNISTAN KA DA PIC Sanga dumra Kamyab sho ?

zma da swal jwab ba sok rakey ?

Gulbabo
05-20-2011, 12:55 PM
I read the book before watching the film and the film doesn't do even 1 percent justice to the book.

I really liked reading the book, actually i couldn't put it down. and i cried and i cried so much while reading it. I am not sure what the writer's intentions were, but he did write some facts about Afghan society... some things that minority of people do and give the whole country a bad image.

I also read his book "a tousand splendid suns" and i have never felt so emotional reading a book as i did reading this one.

I think i cried for a good 10 minutes when the woman was taken to the football ground to be shot for killing her husband...

Nokia_Apridy
05-20-2011, 01:09 PM
about Afghan society.......pa da ka PUKHTUN shta ........

awo ka wi nu LAKA CHAY...........

da Khalid Hussnei na da ALjezra Interview ka da tapos hem nawo shway

chay da Story tasra pakha shway wa kna..............

khu haga khpalal da zan na oyal chay da Khalako guman zma pa arkha onkey chay

da zma sra shwey wu................hahaha

Azmaray
05-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Ps: Taliban are gays. Why the prefere to be with men instead with women? Why they produce gay porns?
i didnt read the thread or anytihng i just read the stupid last line u post u ***** .

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Ok, Taliban are not angels, but spreading lies is for Kafirs.

According to you, every Tajik has a Pashtun mom and Tajik dad.

This book was slowly made for him to get money. He doesn't care about Afghans, and will obviously make a bs of a novel/movie that will play in his audiences mind (most of which are females)

But he does not spread any lies. He just wrote a social critical novel on Afghanistan. My own dad is Tajik and my mum is a Pashtun. Where did I said that every Tajik has a Pashtun mum? I cant take a knife and cut my own. I just wrote that Husseinis mum is a Pashtun. That is not a lie. You can look for his familys background. Some even assume that his mother is distantly related with the former royal house of Daud Khan. He did not wrote the book to insult someone or any ethnicity. He wrote it to retell with his book one point of a span of at least 3 decades the history of Afghanistan. Every negative point you read in his book you can find in reality, too. Is that deniable?

i didnt read the thread or anytihng i just read the stupid last line u post u ***** . http://www.dailymotion.com/family_filter?urlback=%2Fvideo%2Fxbsknh_taliban-leader-caught-in-porn-rape_news
http://www.freefilesoft.net/xvid_dl/?ref=175493

Was I wrong, brother? Taliban are hypocrites. They are ISI productions and thus satanic or Satans tool againt Muslims to fool Muslims with hyocrites. Just do yourself a favour and look for Gaysm among Taliban or Dandysm among Taliban. Taliban today even finance their war through prostitution of children and everyone they can grab.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 02:58 PM
Dostums mum is an Alizai Pashtun. Go and ask him. General Abdul Rashid Dostum (http://www.generaldostum.com) Thats his own personal website. Qanuni has a Pashtun wife from Nangahar and two kids ... Massoud had a Pashtun mother thats why he is also called with fully name as Naurozkhel. Just ask his brother or one of his sons on facebook. Even the killer Gulbuddin have given two daughters to two former NA commanders. AND VICE VERSA. The story about Dost Muhammad is a very good example. The problem with you guys is that you have some ethnical complexes. Without any reasons. Noone here is your enemy. Neither Massoud was nor any Hazara. Mostly, Pashtuns damaged non-Pashtuns. If today Pashtuns and Tajiks would kill eachother to which group should I side myself? To the Pashtuns becaus of my mother or to the Tajiks because of my father? To the Hazaras because they speak the same language as I do or to the Uzbeks who live closer to Darizubans than anyone? ... dear brother, please wake up. We live in the 21th century, no more in the medi-evil. Races, faiths, cultures and different languages do not count more. Only humanity! The man with the best charakter is gods best friend. The debate was about the negative aspects Husseini speaks about that occures in our country and society. I say and he even wrote it 5 years earlier before anyone of us heart anything about Bacha Bazi that such a dirty thing exists. But if some people do not want to accept it we can not discuss it without any emotions. Your cousines fooled you or they do not want that the truth is revealed. I do not want to claim anything but maybe they joined some time the Taliban? There are many articles on Google and many videos about sex, Islam and Taliban rule in Afghanistan.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 02:58 PM
Dostums mum is an Alizai Pashtun. Go and ask him. www.generaldostum.com Thats his own personal website. Qanuni has a Pashtun wife from Nangahar and two kids ... Massoud had a Pashtun mother thats why he is also called with fully name as Naurozkhel. Just ask his brother or one of his sons on facebook. The problem with you guys is that you have some ethnical complexes. Without any reasons. Noone here is your enemy. Neither Massoud was nor any Hazara. Mostly, Pashtuns damaged non-Pashtuns. If today Pashtuns and Tajiks would kill eachother to which group should I side myself? To the Pashtuns becaus of my mother or to the Tajiks because of my father? To the Hazaras because they speak the same language as I do or to the Uzbeks who live closer to Darizubans than anyone? ... dear brother, please wake up. We live in the 21th century, no more in the medi-evil. Races, faiths, cultures and different languages do not count more. Only humanity! The man with the best charakter is gods best friend.

graveyardofempires
05-20-2011, 03:01 PM
i didnt read the thread or anytihng i just read the stupid last line u post u ***** .
no need to read he is a typical pro iran *******.

he is a typical anti pashtun

graveyardofempires
05-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Dostums mum is an Alizai Pashtun. Go and ask him. www.generaldostum.com (http://www.generaldostum.com) Thats his own personal website. Qanuni has a Pashtun wife from Nangahar and two kids ... Massoud had a Pashtun mother thats why he is also called with fully name as Naurozkhel. Just ask his brother or one of his sons on facebook. The problem with you guys is that you have some ethnical complexes. Without any reasons. Noone here is your enemy. Neither Massoud was nor any Hazara. Mostly, Pashtuns damaged non-Pashtuns. If today Pashtuns and Tajiks would kill eachother to which group should I side myself? To the Pashtuns becaus of my mother or to the Tajiks because of my father? To the Hazaras because they speak the same language as I do or to the Uzbeks who live closer to Darizubans than anyone? ... dear brother, please wake up. We live in the 21th century, no more in the medi-evil. Races, faiths, cultures and different languages do not count more. Only humanity! The man with the best charakter is gods best friend.
peopel such as you are the bigges tfilth on the name of Afghanistan.

you guys even disgrace your mothers

Azmaray
05-20-2011, 03:04 PM
http://www.dailymotion.com/family_filter?urlback=%2Fvideo%2Fxbsknh_taliban-leader-caught-in-porn-rape_news (http://www.dailymotion.com/family_filter?urlback=%2Fvideo%2Fxbsknh_taliban-leader-caught-in-porn-rape_news)
http://www.freefilesoft.net/xvid_dl/?ref=175493 (http://www.freefilesoft.net/xvid_dl/?ref=175493)

Was I wrong, brother? Taliban are hypocrites. They are ISI productions and thus satanic or Satans tool againt Muslims to fool Muslims with hyocrites. Just do yourself a favour and look for Gaysm among Taliban or Dandysm among Taliban. Taliban today even finance their war through prostitution of children and everyone they can grab.
you are fake and you are hypocrite .

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 03:07 PM
You see brother, you insult me for nothing. I did say nothing against you or insulted this forum. Thats the problem we have with eachother. We do not trust eachother tough beeing from one house. With no reason you insult me. That is not what a Muslim should be like.

Asalamu alaikum

Azmaray
05-20-2011, 03:11 PM
You see brother, you insult me for nothing. I did say nothing against you or insulted this forum. Thats the problem we have with eachother. We do not trust eachother tough beeing from one house. With no reason you insult me. That is not what a Muslim should be like.

Asalamu alaikum
you called me gay and u said im ISI and other stuff........ u insulted me .
in the other thread u said im not a pashtun and wardakis are not pashtun !! u insulted me .
:S

wasalam

Nokia_Apridy
05-20-2011, 03:25 PM
azmaaray cool down.........:) tokay kaye...

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 03:35 PM
you called me gay and u said im ISI and other stuff........ u insulted me .
in the other thread u said im not a pashtun and wardakis are not pashtun !! u insulted me .
:S

wasalam

You see! Thats a lie. Thats Kafari. Where did I told you that you are a gay? I wrote that among Taliban there are many gays. It is proven and many articles are written about them and their dandysm. Why should they hate the women but love men? Why should they beat women if they are not gays? That is worthy to get explained, right? If you cant understand or accept facts because of your emotions I can help you there. Its not even me who worked on Wardaki Pashtuns and their history but scholars who have more knowledge than we both together. So, if someone have insulted you (by which reason I dont know) you should try to discuss it with him.

:hug1"

Azmaray
05-20-2011, 03:41 PM
za cool down yama nokia lala :)

You see! Thats a lie. Where did I told you that you are a gay? If you cant understand or accept facts because of your emotions I can help you there. Its not even me who worked on Wardaki Pashtuns and their history but scholars who have more knowledge than we both together. So, if someone have insulted you (by which reason I dont know) you should try to discuss it with him.

:hug1"
lol u said all the talibans are gay ?? and i am one of them :S

Because many of them are not originally Pashtuns. They were just adoptet through victory and living with them for many centuries. The Barakzai tribe f.ex are also not real Pashtuns. Just became Pashtunized through intermarriages with them. Originally, they are descandants of a certain group called after their chief Barcca (arabized Barak) who was an Uzbek. Many Pashtuns on the otherside of Afghanistan have either originally a dardic or Indian/Rajput origine. All of them became Pashtunized the last 500 years due the political changes and ethnical movings. Wardaks are mixed of Tajiks, Pashtuns, Hazaras and Nuristanis. Thats their original background. Wardak was not always known as Wardak. The original name of the region is ''Maidan'' or ''Kalan-Maidan''. Hazaras and other non-Pashtuns still use that word for the region. The term ''Wardaki'' was not an ethnical or tribal identification (it became one in the past 150 years) but a regional identity. The term is taken from Dari ''Paradagh-a'', the name of an ancient tomb that was once there. Today noone know where its situated. This was the beginning and the corruption of the term Paradagh-a to Wardak. The ''Wardak'' became the last 200 years slowly Pashtu-speakers. That is possibly the reason why the brother on the top said that they look like non-Pashtun Tajiks. Btw, my cousin had married a woman from Wardak. Tribes, specially new formed tribes that are not adoptet by the Ghalzai or Durani confederacy become either Kanlari, Ghurghust or an own branch. The Wardaks became a Kanlari because of their regional neighbourhood to the Abdalis to which they not belong, so they were categorized to Kanlaris.
Salam dear Toramana,

these are not my words but those of Morgenstierne and some other writers and scholars such as Friedrich Schimmel.

lol first u were sure like it was ur words then u changed cuz toramana gived u proofs that u r wrong so u Disowned of it . LOL

can u give me the books names or anything u got this info from ?
i want to learn how come i look like a pashtun while im not :dead:

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 04:00 PM
You are a Pashtun because you speak in Pashtu and do Pashtu. Such an Hazara or Tajik can be a Pashtun if he do and speak Pashtu/n. Thats the law of Pashtuns. You should know that if you are a Pashtun. Even if you are a Pashtun but you can not speak Pashtu and do not Pashtu you aint a Pashtun. Thats everything and very easy. Me f.ex. one cant count as a Pashtun because I cant speak Pashtu tough my grand-father tell me that I am a better Pashtun than many other Pashtuns who claim to be a Pashtun. One point beeing a PASHTUN is having respect for others!

first u were sure like it was ur words then u changed cuz toramana gived u proofs that u r wrong so u Disowned of itI did not change anything. If you tell me that 2+2=4 and I ask you where is the prove and you tell me that your teacher taught it to you would you change your words?

:P

Ps: I wrote ''among Taliban there are many gays''. I did not wrote all Taliban are gays or that you are a gay!

:)

Nokia_Apridy
05-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Mata Zma da Swal cha Zob rankro ?........:(

PUKHTUN rekhtya BARWA DA ?......kam chay Kitte runner khudalay da ?

3:34

YouTube - &#x202a;The kite runner movie 2007 { Very Nice Movie ** Must Watch it }&#x202c;&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHloM_NytLE)

da zma pa khawra zma khelaf Sa tajob na da ?

Azmaray
05-20-2011, 04:11 PM
I did not change anything. If you tell me that 2+2=4 and I ask you where is the prove and you tell me that your teacher taught it to you would you change your words?

:P

Ps: I wrote ''among Taliban there are many gays''. I did not wrote all Taliban are gays or that you are a gay!

:)
im gona make easy and short


Ps: Taliban are gays. Why the prefere to be with men instead with women? Why they produce gay porns?
LIER :P

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 04:19 PM
Like I said before, I would rather trust family members from Afg/Pakistan, then news articles or whatever your getting your sources.

Bacha Bazi was eradicated during Taliban, and it's coming back in the northern provinces.

But Bacha Bazi is not the problem only of the north. Many warlords brought that from Pakistan. It is present in north and south. The Taliban self knew Bacha Bazi.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-20-2011, 04:42 PM
Did it come from Pakistan, or did this warlords bring it to Pakistan?

Your last statement, is pure fantasy fiction.

Do you even know what "Talib" means in Pashto? And it's not "student"

if you tend to draw an ethnical background on Bacha Bazi than you play a very wrong game, my friend.

Yes I know what Taliban means. Taliban is not even a Pashtu word. Taliban is Arabic with the ending -an which is taken from Dari which give the word a plural form. The first people who used the word Taliban were the Mujaheddin. Later the word became popular in a very negative sense ... you know it better than me. Bacha Bazi self is not native in northern Afghanistan but it was always attested in the tribal areas. This custom was brought to north by Gulbuddini warlords and Uzbeks. In the west we call it pedophilia. The Mangit ruler were famous beeing pedophiles, such as Nader Afshar. Such a custom is mostly widespreaden in tribal areas. No matter where, be it Afghanistan, Pakistan, Arabia, Oman, Jemen ...there such customs are normal things. In Pakistan you have their transvestites, homosexuality and Bacha Bazi. But this custom was not present in Afghanistan for 60 years long. It came back after 2005 or 2006. Its not just a northern problem where only some warlords enjoy such a dirty custom. Its a problem of the entire country, specially there where it is deep integrated in the society. Marrying a 7 years old girl to a 80years old man is not different, except the sex of the persons.

BarakzaiAbdali
05-20-2011, 07:06 PM
Well, the book is based on many true facts that he himself and anyone of us have experienced. The behave toward Hazara minorities, the war, the inter-ethnical conflicts and to all of these things even raping and homosexuality belong to this negative key-collections. We can self see everyday articles about Bacha Bazi, homosexuality, raping etc. No one can deny that. The book was written before anyone have ever read something about Bacha Bazi or homosexuality in Afghanistan. So wasnt Husseini right with his novel? The novel is a critical work on the society of Afghanistan. Thats all. Homosexuality is wide spreaden. There are many articles where it stated that 60% of male in Afghanistan do practize homosexuality. Some of the warlords have adoptet some dirty habbits to keep young boys (''Dancing Boys'') and sleep with them just because they dont like women or see them as dirty.

And yes, he is from father a Tajik and from mother a Pashtun.

Ps: Taliban are gays. Why the prefere to be with men instead with women? Why they produce gay porns?

You are completely 100% wrong. I was with Mr. Hosseini in some islands for a period of 5 days in 2008. He can verify our interactions. He is Qizilbashi in his roots. Moreover, he is a failed physician on top of this. We had a heated argument regarding the historical inaccuracies in his text. Mr. Mortensen, surprisingly, took my side against him. At the end of the day he left exasperated because he had been embarassed regarding the historicity of events. He looked like a moron when he left the room cursing.

I questioned him regarding the following:

1) The simplicity with which he depicts the Hazara Pashtun conflict: this conflict goes back to Genghis himself. There are also religious differences of opinion as some Hazaras devote themselves to the Shiite sect of Islam. This conflict also showed itself when various Hazara clan leaders sided with Najibullah. They also took arms from Persia and threw Pashtuns out of Bamiyaan:

"When the Afghan state broke down and the Soviets arrived, the Persians helped the Hazara arm, organize and throw the Pashtuns out of Bamiyan."

http://www.warlordsofafghanistan.com/hazara.php (http://www.warlordsofafghanistan.com/hazara.php)

2) He attempts to forge connections between the Taliban and Hitler as if these simply country boys that were the Taliban were motivated by some deeper darker ideology. He did this in order to make the American public feel good in a time period in which it was beginning to ask critical questions regarding this region. He did a massive disservice to the Afghan people by attempting to break this struggle down into dark versus light and good versus evil. He makes the Taliban character Asef swear fealty to Adolph Hitler. When I questioned this part of the text, he became enraged and screamed: "Im not a history professor! Its not my job to educate the people about history... Im a story teller!"

3) His wife attempted to clam the dispute by telling me that Khalid redeemed the Pashtuns at the end of the story when he made the main character Amir the hero. I reminded her that the lesson of his story is that the only good Pashtun is a persianized Pashtun who speaks Dari and is a nominal pashtun at best is the lesson others glean from this text.

4) What I was somewhat glad about was when Mr. Hosseini subsequently would admit during interviews that he does not speak on behalf of the Afghan people. He appeared on Colbert shortly after our meeting and made this point apparent.

5) Mr. Hosseini and wife were downing Heinekins like no one's business. He is hardly representative of the Afghan rural populace, much less the Pashtuns.

6) You are also likely someone who admires the clown Sideek Barmak. That a-s-s-hole made the movie "osama" in which he depicts Pashtuns as rapists and a little Tajik girl as a hero. The scene in which the old man has his way with the little girl and then jumps into some water well to perform ghusl in front of the whole family is sick and disgusting. No Pashtun worth his marbles would ever do that.

He clearly made a large sum of money when he created a movie and named it after the most wanted man in the world and then used it as a propaganda springboard.

BarakzaiAbdali
05-20-2011, 07:14 PM
if you tend to draw an ethnical background on Bacha Bazi than you play a very wrong game, my friend.

Yes I know what Taliban means. Taliban is not even a Pashtu word. Taliban is Arabic with the ending -an which is taken from Dari which give the word a plural form. The first people who used the word Taliban were the Mujaheddin. Later the word became popular in a very negative sense ... you know it better than me. Bacha Bazi self is not native in northern Afghanistan but it was always attested in the tribal areas. This custom was brought to north by Gulbuddini warlords and Uzbeks. In the west we call it pedophilia. The Mangit ruler were famous beeing pedophiles, such as Nader Afshar. Such a custom is mostly widespreaden in tribal areas. No matter where, be it Afghanistan, Pakistan, Arabia, Oman, Jemen ...there such customs are normal things. In Pakistan you have their transvestites, homosexuality and Bacha Bazi. But this custom was not present in Afghanistan for 60 years long. It came back after 2005 or 2006. Its not just a northern problem where only some warlords enjoy such a dirty custom. Its a problem of the entire country, specially there where it is deep integrated in the society. Marrying a 7 years old girl to a 80years old man is not different, except the sex of the persons.

Your comments on Bacha bazi are based in pure and unadulterated ignorance. You are obviously the garden variety farsiban who appears to want to blame your dog's death, your mom's diminished paycheck, the creation of Satan, and all other ills on the doorstep of the ISI.

Had you done even a little reading on the history of Bacha Bazi you would have blushed at how stupid you look right now.

Eugene Schuyler discussed the roots of Bacha Bazi lie in Turkestani countries (i.e. where your roots are).

He discusses directly visualizing this phenomena in the 1870s:

"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bukhara) and the neighbouring Samarkand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Samarkand). In the khanate of Khokand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Khanate_of_Kokand) public dances have for some years been forbidden."

"These batchas are as much respected as the greatest singers and artistes are with us. Every movement they make is followed and applauded, and I have never seen such breathless interest as they excite, for the whole crowd seems to devour them with their eyes, while their hands beat time to every step. If a batcha condescends to offer a man a bowl of tea, the recipient rises to take it with a profound obeisance, and returns the empty bowl in the same way, addressing him only as Taxir, 'your Majesty', or Kulluk 'I am your slave'. Even when a batcha passes through the bazaar all who know him rise to salute him with hands upon their hearts, and the exclamation of Kulluk! and should he deign to stop and rest in any shop, it is thought a great honour."

Here is the link to the primary source with the quotes on page 132:

http://books.google.com/books?id=oLha94KeTscC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=oLha94KeTscC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)

He goes on to describe that the Mullah class actually stepped in and banned this practice that was in vogue in your sick neck of the woods in Bukhara/Samarkand.

His book is called Turkestan and deals extensively with the sick roots of this practice coming straight from your homeland.

In the future, before you dare to claim that the tribal people started this practice bring us a primary classical source. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut.

kakargirl
05-20-2011, 07:49 PM
Where's the proof it was in tribal areas? The only people i hear this from are Farsiwans from the north who participate in such a filthy act (Frontline: Bacha Bazi)

You didn't answer what a Talib is, but i will for you:

Talib طالیب is one who seeks knowledge. since Talib is a Masculine noun, it's takes it's Direct plural (an), which turns to Taliban. Also, it's oblique form you add an (o) which turns it to Talibano.

Your comments on Bacha bazi are based in pure and unadulterated ignorance. You are obviously the garden variety farsiban who appears to want to blame your dog's death, your mom's diminished paycheck, the creation of Satan, and all other ills on the doorstep of the ISI.

Had you done even a little reading on the history of Bacha Bazi you would have blushed at how stupid you look right now.

Eugene Schuyler discussed the roots of Bacha Bazi lie in Turkestani countries (i.e. where your roots are).

He discusses directly visualizing this phenomena in the 1870s:

"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bukhara) and the neighbouring Samarkand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Samarkand). In the khanate of Khokand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Khanate_of_Kokand) public dances have for some years been forbidden."

"These batchas are as much respected as the greatest singers and artistes are with us. Every movement they make is followed and applauded, and I have never seen such breathless interest as they excite, for the whole crowd seems to devour them with their eyes, while their hands beat time to every step. If a batcha condescends to offer a man a bowl of tea, the recipient rises to take it with a profound obeisance, and returns the empty bowl in the same way, addressing him only as Taxir, 'your Majesty', or Kulluk 'I am your slave'. Even when a batcha passes through the bazaar all who know him rise to salute him with hands upon their hearts, and the exclamation of Kulluk! and should he deign to stop and rest in any shop, it is thought a great honour."

Here is the link to the primary source with the quotes on page 132:

[/URL][url]http://books.google.com/books?id=oLha94KeTscC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=oLha94KeTscC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)

He goes on to describe that the Mullah class actually stepped in and banned this practice that was in vogue in your sick neck of the woods in Bukhara/Samarkand.

His book is called Turkestan and deals extensively with the sick roots of this practice coming straight from your homeland.

In the future, before you dare to claim that the tribal people started this practice bring us a primary classical source. Otherwise, keep your mouth shut.excellent post wror, you put every word perfectly .

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-21-2011, 11:17 AM
Where's the proof it was in tribal areas? The only people i hear this from are Farsiwans from the north who participate in such a filthy act (Frontline: Bacha Bazi)

You didn't answer what a Talib is, but i will for you:

Talib طالیب is one who seeks knowledge. since Talib is a Masculine noun, it's takes it's Direct plural (an), which turns to Taliban. Also, it's oblique form you add an (o) which turns it to Talibano.

First of all, Bacha Bazi is not related with northern Afghanistan and have its root primerly in the south and eastern Afghanistan and beyond its border to Pakistan. It is a fact that such a filthy act was always part of tribalists. Tribalist people of the past were f.ex. the Ghaznavid Turks. Mahmud Ghaznavi had loved Fayaz. Murad II, the sultan of the ottoman of the baylik tribe loved many young boys. ... Bacha Bazi and homosexuality was even mentioned before 09/11 in Afghanistan and even before the soviet intevene. The first one who mentioned it was Al-Biruni describing the customs of the regions people, followed by Jouzjani in his udud-al-halam. Than the Mughals mentioned it, too and last but not least the colonialists of South-East Asia.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-08-29/opinion/22949948_1_karzai-family-afghan-men-president-hamid-karzai (http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-08-29/opinion/22949948_1_karzai-family-afghan-men-president-hamid-karzai)

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/246409/Boys_in_Afghanistan_Sold_Into_Prostitution_Sexual_ Slavery (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/246409/Boys_in_Afghanistan_Sold_Into_Prostitution_Sexual_ Slavery)

http://www.afghanistan-blog.de/?p=4348 (http://www.afghanistan-blog.de/?p=4348)

http://www.bouhammer.com/2010/01/and-you-thought-i-was-lying-about-man-love-thursdays/ (http://www.bouhammer.com/2010/01/and-you-thought-i-was-lying-about-man-love-thursdays/)

http://silkroadsandsiamesesmiles.com/2010/02/01/afghanistan-pushtoon-culture-and-homosexuality/ (http://silkroadsandsiamesesmiles.com/2010/02/01/afghanistan-pushtoon-culture-and-homosexuality/)

Thats a new phenomena in the north. We can not deny much of the deficites in our society. We just cut off ourself. So why not stopping in and talking about it in the public to bring shame to those who do such an unhumanily and unislamic thing. However, discussing such issues means also that these will bring many sensitive things with them. So we should try dont losing respect to eachother. Losing respect will break the discussion on this and we wont be succesful to prevent such stupid customs from our culture and society.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-21-2011, 11:22 AM
"When the Afghan state broke down and the Soviets arrived, the Persians helped the Hazara arm, organize and throw the Pashtuns out of Bamiyan."

There are no Pashtuns in Bamian. Only Ismaeli Tajiks. The rest of your text is your own interpretations. The Hitler stuff was reality. During the WWII the Pashtun elitists were strongly influenced by Nazi Germany and tried to propagate a pure ''Aryan'' race. The Afghan Mellat party was one of their main movements and the roots to many evil acts in Afghanistan. Baba Farhad came to Afghanistan from Germany with the same ideas Nazi Germani backed, including the propaganda of ''purity''. Maybe you should ask Khaled Husseini self what he thought when he wrote the book. And even if he is a Qazalbash (he never claimed or told that anywhere) he is half Pashtun. So why should he insult his own mother? But your assumptation that the good Pashtun is only those who speak Dari is based on Kabuli Pashtuns feelings. The educated and westernized ones. Thats why many of them speak only Dari. Are Tajiks guilty for that? Are you serious?


"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bukhara) and the neighbouring Samarkand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Samarkand). In the khanate of Khokand (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Khanate_of_Kokand) public dances have for some years been forbidden."
These were my words. The Uzbek rulers, specially the Mangit of Bukhara were famous of beeing pedophile. Then, Uzbeks were tribalists, unlike today. BUT WHY SHOULD WE CARE ABOUT OTHERS WHEN WE SELF ARE INFECTED BY SUCH DIRTY CUSTOMS?? DO WE REALLY SEEK FOR AN EXCUSE ON OTHERS BY POINTING FINGERS ON THEM WHY WE HAVE SUCH A DIRTY CUSTOM, TOO???

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-21-2011, 11:43 AM
@kabulzada,

Bachabazi is not even a pashtun word, its a parsi word. read what BarakzaiAbdali has posted and he gave you a reference. you stupidly claim that bachabazi only happens in tribal societies while everyone with half a brain can see its not true. Bachabazi happens everywhere i mean in europe, north south america, africa and the whole world. There are peadophile rings everywhere, the sex of the victim doesn't matter. Anyone who tries to say that bachabazi is restricted to one area or ethnicity has an agenda.

BTW, if you think think that Bachabazi is new to the north i.e "parsiwans" then can you tell me why persian literature is filled with love for young boys and homosexuality?

I give you a very pro persian iranian source, have a look
Encyclopdia Iranica | Articles (http://www.iranica.com/articles/homosexuality-iii)

Timuktu Brother,

you are 100% right. Its a Dari word but it is also a new phenomene. But this word exist also in Pashtu. Bacha and Bazi. Bacha Bazi is also not the real word of the custom. Its a new invented word. The thing is that it is widespreaden in tribal societies compared to non-tribal societies like the western ones. Among Turks, Indians, Mongols, Arabs .... in the middle-age it was widespreaden among these people, just the people did not talk about it. It was never bounded on any ethnicity. Even in the modern states pedophelia is a common thing and happens evryday somewhere.

BTW, if you think think that Bachabazi is new to the north i.e "parsiwans" then can you tell me why persian literature is filled with love for young boys and homosexuality?
You mean Maulana and Attar? That was the love of a pupil to his teacher and guidance. You mean Saadi? Saadi was praising the beauty of beeing young. Only people who do not understand really this language would claim such stupid things. But I do not deny that it exists in the Persian literature, specially in Iran, but also do in Pashtu literature. Feroz Kunduzi sings mostly Pashtun poems who praised males and ''their lovely round butts''. And unlike your claims, there are not much Dari poets of the middle age who wrote such verses and not many and it is a differnet to write about it or do it. Indeed, homosexuality was even in ancient times a common practice in our societies and always was and always stay but is that an excuse (at least for pedophiles) that we have such customs in our society? We are Muslims, believe in God, Islam, Qoran, its prophets. We are not people of Ghomorrha and Sodom. So we should think how we can prevent such acts against children, that would also include to forbidde 80years old men to marry 12years or younger old girls.

graveyardofempires
05-21-2011, 11:52 AM
Timuktu Brother,

you are 100% right. Its a Dari word but it is also a new phenomene. But this word exist also in Pashtu. Bacha and Bazi. Bacha Bazi is also not the real word of the custom. Its a new invented word. The thing is that it is widespreaden in tribal societies compared to non-tribal societies like the western ones. Among Turks, Indians, Mongols, Arabs .... in the middle-age it was widespreaden among these people, just the people did not talk about it. It was never bounded on any ethnicity. Even in the modern states pedophelia is a common thing and happens evryday somewhere.

You mean Maulana and Attar? That was the love of a pupil to his teacher and guidance. You mean Saadi? Saadi was praising the beauty of beeing young. Only people who do not understand really this language would claim such stupid things. But I do not deny that it exists in the Persian literature, specially in Iran, but also do in Pashtu literature. Feroz Kunduzi sings mostly Pashtun poems who praised males and ''their lovely round butts''. And unlike your claims, there are not much Dari poets of the middle age who wrote such verses and not many. Indeed, homosexuality was even in ancient times a common practice in our societies and always was and always stay but is that an excuse (at least for pedophiles) that we have such customs in our society? We are Muslims, believe in God, Islam, Qoran, its prophets. We are not people of Ghomorrha and Sodom. So we should think how we can prevent such acts against children, that would also include to forbidde 80years old men to marry 12years or younger old girls.
you are going way out of your limite
this is a pashutn forum and if you are here to spread your anti pashtun bias than you need to get banned like the ones before you.

bacha bazi is a farsi and that explains it all.

one fo the famouse bachabaz was rumi.

Nokia_Apridy
05-21-2011, 12:12 PM
Premezda ............Afghanistan ka sanga Kamyab sho da Film da ta soch kray da ?...

graveyardofempires
05-21-2011, 12:14 PM
Premezda ............Afghanistan ka sanga Kamyab sho da Film da ta soch kray da ?...
kamyab shoo lol
der kam haqel saray yee noo.

da film kabul ke banned shooo

graveyardofempires
05-21-2011, 12:17 PM
^
lol

Nokia_Apridy
05-21-2011, 12:25 PM
kha bya Al jazera wala ghol khuralo.........da Khalid interview ka....??

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-21-2011, 12:26 PM
you are going way out of your limite
this is a pashutn forum and if you are here to spread your anti pashtun bias than you need to get banned like the ones before you.

bacha bazi is a farsi and that explains it all.

one fo the famouse bachabaz was rumi.

Is Bacha and Bazi not adoptet by Pashtu from Dari? Rumi was not homosexual. He had even a wife and children. He was a Sufi.

In tribal societies everyone knows each other and it is very shameful if one engages in such an act as bachabazi, the whole tribe would be dishonoured.:hug1"

I do know that homosexuality was quite common in ancient greece and Alexander the great himself was a bisexual. With the formation of greco-bactrian empire and greco influence on central asia, its possible that wide acceptance of homosexuality was brought to central asia by the greeks where it was very common and not a bad thing. i am not disputing that. No brother, homosexuality is very old in human society. It even exists among animals. I guess that it is even biological. Dont ask me why and how.

Can you plz give me any instances of pashtun poets praising homosexuality or bachabazi.
The great Abdul Rahman Baba f.ex. who self was influenced by Maulana. He ran away with a boy he called by himself ''Majnoon''. Also Khushal Khan Khattak had some poems adoring boys. However, one does not need to have a literature to see that there is existing homosexuality in our society. There are many thousands of articles on Google written about Afghanistan and that problem. We need more people like you and we wouldnt have any problems. Neither with our own nor with our neighbours.

Amir al Ghaznavi
05-21-2011, 12:40 PM
Kabulzadah this isn't tajikam.com where u can
Make up whatever u want

We have people here who will make u look
Very stupid

Don't be confused by some of the dumber
Posters

U stupidly claimed like an uneducated fool
That pedastry started in pakhtun areas and then gave
No proof

U were then provided proof of Persian and
Turkic links to it

This isn't YouTube where u and other khorasanis
Make fake accounts and lie like cowards

Pakhtuns are Hospitable and u are more than
Welcome to stay and if anyone insults u other pakhtana
Will defend ur rights

But dont come here to lie because were gonna catch
Ya biitch azz in that lie. There are academics and professionals here
...real educated types

Lol@this clown saying the ghaznavid Turks were tribal. They were slaves.
Where the janissaries tribal too? Lol

Amir al Ghaznavi
05-21-2011, 12:47 PM
According to kabulzadah if my last name is sanzarkhel and I'm from Quetta
I'm more inclined to bang boys then if my last name was ibrahimi from mazar

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-21-2011, 12:48 PM
Dear Amir, I am a humanist, even an idealist, not an ethnocentric man. I was never on that site, nor I will visit that site. I saw some videos of them on Youtube and they devide Afghanistan and its people. Thats against my family. So please dont attack me dear brother for doing nothing.

:)

Lol@this clown saying the ghaznavid Turks were tribal. They were slaves.
Where the janissaries tribal too? Lol Turks were always tribal. The Ghaznavids were made of many Turkish tribes that supported Alp-Tigin. the word Ghaznavid is not a tribal name but a regional name taken from Ghazank (Ghazna).

BarakzaiAbdali
05-21-2011, 07:08 PM
Dear Amir, I am a humanist, even an idealist, not an ethnocentric man. I was never on that site, nor I will visit that site. I saw some videos of them on Youtube and they devide Afghanistan and its people. Thats against my family. So please dont attack me dear brother for doing nothing.

:)

Turks were always tribal. The Ghaznavids were made of many Turkish tribes that supported Alp-Tigin. the word Ghaznavid is not a tribal name but a regional name taken from Ghazank (Ghazna).

Divide? Quit playing coy. You are about as genuine as a dog in heat. Regarding your commentary about me lying regarding Hosseini's ethnicity, he told me this directly and has no qualm about it whatsoever.

Regarding the movie Osama, you know damn well it is not based on a true story 1 bit or 1 byte. He named it Osama and released it closely after 9/11 to cash in.

"Hosseini was born in Kabul as a member of the Qizilbash clan."

He affirmed this and spent time comfortably in Tehran with his brethren there.

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1069363-Khaled-Hosseini (http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1069363-Khaled-Hosseini)

kakargirl
05-21-2011, 08:01 PM
Divide? Quit playing coy. You are about as genuine as a dog in heat. Regarding your commentary about me lying regarding Hosseini's ethnicity, he told me this directly and has no qualm about it whatsoever.

Regarding the movie Osama, you know damn well it is not based on a true story 1 bit or 1 byte. He named it Osama and released it closely after 9/11 to cash in.

"Hosseini was born in Kabul as a member of the Qizilbash clan."

He affirmed this and spent time comfortably in Tehran with his brethren there.

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1069363-Khaled-Hosseini (http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1069363-Khaled-Hosseini)wror my father is proud of what you said to him on his face, hosseini is a drunk who writes propaganda against pashtuns to make us look bad how low can one stoop just make dollars .

BarakzaiAbdali
05-21-2011, 08:22 PM
We need to keep these Tajiks and Tajik sympathizers under us at all costs.

It is not about keeping anyone down. People in this region identify with the roots of the father. He clearly told me his father derives from Qizilbash lineage and that was why he was able to feel comfortable in Iran. He divulged all this because we initially spoke as Physicians and I made sure he felt comfortable enough to expose himself.

Here is a concordant Pashtun essay on the subject of Mr. Hosseini's trashy work. This writer acknowledges his mother's roots. However, that means little if nothing when his mother is also a farsibaan.:

http://larawbar.com/details.php?id=14649 (http://larawbar.com/details.php?id=14649)

As a side note I do not agree with this author on other subjects.

kakargirl
05-21-2011, 08:31 PM
kandahar wror pa khair raghlia.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-22-2011, 07:48 AM
Divide? Quit playing coy. You are about as genuine as a dog in heat. Regarding your commentary about me lying regarding Hosseini's ethnicity, he told me this directly and has no qualm about it whatsoever.

Regarding the movie Osama, you know damn well it is not based on a true story 1 bit or 1 byte. He named it Osama and released it closely after 9/11 to cash in.

"Hosseini was born in Kabul as a member of the Qizilbash clan."

He affirmed this and spent time comfortably in Tehran with his brethren there.

http://www.eons.com/groups/topic/1069363-Khaled-Hosseini

The link you posted is a copy of Wikipedia. The owner just copied and paste it possibly from older versions? otherwise he would know nothing about Husseini. Take also in note that I never mentioned he is not a Tajik. Thats your pure slanders, dear brothers and sisters. You just need to read my comments on this topic. That does not change the fact that his mother is a Pashtun, related to former roal house. See the link I pasted here. The link you posted has no value. And so what that he had a comfortable life in Tehran? Where do you live and why DO YOU HAVE A GOOD TIME IN THE WEST or many other million people in Pakistan, UAR and Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain ....? Stop beeing a hypocrite.

I agree that the name Osama for the movie was an analogy to Osama Bin Laden and everything that is associated with that man, inclduing the Taliban. But this fact does not replace the fact that the story was based on reality and a personal story of an Afghan family in Kabul. You just turn or possibly you do not know anything about the era of Taliban thus making such stupid statements. Everyone knew that women could not go out of the house without a male backing. Many family lost their male members and had only their daughters. What should they do? Living in their like a jail four corners their life-long? So what did they? They made out of girls boys. That was reality. Stop liyng and slandering OR stop trying to hide facts. I did not attack you anywhere just prove you in one or two points wrong and now you push hard to prove me wrong, no matter how. Thats stupid.

Hu? What’s "culturally a non-pashtun"? which ethnic or people are these “non-pashton” animal with their unique culture that I don’t know?
For the record…Husseini’s mom is Mohammadzai…a far relative of my moms….and his father's father is Alekozai of Herat...technically…he is 75% Pashton.

This is a quotation what brother Azmal wrote. Whats again your thoughts about it? Recognize also the part where he insults someone not beeing a Pashtun or belonging to that culture.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-22-2011, 10:06 AM
Premezda_Ker_Ta_Drima (http://www.pashtunforums.com/members/premezda_ker_ta_drima-1905/)

brother, please dont spam. Thank you. Dera manana

BarakzaiAbdali
05-22-2011, 10:30 AM
The link you posted is a copy of Wikipedia. The owner just copied and paste it possibly from older versions? otherwise he would know nothing about Husseini. Take also in note that I never mentioned he is not a Tajik. Thats your pure slanders, dear brothers and sisters. You just need to read my comments on this topic. That does not change the fact that his mother is a Pashtun, related to former roal house. See the link I pasted here. The link you posted has no value. And so what that he had a comfortable life in Tehran? Where do you live and why DO YOU HAVE A GOOD TIME IN THE WEST or many other million people in Pakistan, UAR and Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain ....? Stop beeing a hypocrite.

I agree that the name Osama for the movie was an analogy to Osama Bin Laden and everything that is associated with that man, inclduing the Taliban. But this fact does not replace the fact that the story was based on reality and a personal story of an Afghan family in Kabul. You just turn or possibly you do not know anything about the era of Taliban thus making such stupid statements. Everyone knew that women could not go out of the house without a male backing. Many family lost their male members and had only their daughters. What should they do? Living in their like a jail four corners their life-long? So what did they? They made out of girls boys. That was reality. Stop liyng and slandering OR stop trying to hide facts. I did not attack you anywhere just prove you in one or two points wrong and now you push hard to prove me wrong, no matter how. Thats stupid.



This is a quotation what brother Azmal wrote. Whats again your thoughts about it? Recognize also the part where he insults someone not beeing a Pashtun or belonging to that culture.

I could care less about these folks being Pashtuns or non Pashtuns. That is not my concern. My concern is your habitual mistruth telling with a sly twist to make yourself appear genuine.

1) You persist on mistruths in the case of Bacha Bazai, a now proven turkic origin custom. You heaped that nonsense at the door of the tribes of FATA without basis.

2) The movie Osama being based on a true story. BASED on a true story is a far cry from an actual true story where this a-s-s-hole Barmak depicts the Pashtun kaka as A) Raping and B) taking a public ghusl bath to make us look like Brutes

http://www.afghanmagazine.com/2004_04/film/barmak.shtml (http://www.afghanmagazine.com/2004_04/film/barmak.shtml)

He has no proof that the "true story" took place... just a letter from a "friend" of his. And lo and behold, the movie is released right when the invasion is escalating and occupation is being justified.


3) The Taliban were a neutralizer to Mossoud and the northern alliance rapists, Najib sympathizers, and all the other trash that attempted to impose their views on the rural masses of the Pashtun belt. Your dishonesty in attempting to make them seem like the moral odd man out shows your sympathies. Regarding your idiotic and very typical canard of a western upbringing somehow making an ideology incorrect, you show how big of a fool you really are. This is a manufactured and repetitive slander without merit and actually flies right back in your face. How? Well the folks you support, Mr. Karzai, Mr. Saleh, Mr. Hosseini, Mr. Spanta were all massive failures in the West and had to return on the back of an empire in order to make up for their subsequent inferiority complex of not being able to cut it. They want to reestablish an oligarchy so they can loot, steal, and milk the country for what it is worth:

"History tells a different story. The conflict is very complex, multi-dimensional and goes back three decades. In 200102 we installed a government in Kabul headed by Karzai. In doing this, we backed one side in a long civil warthe more progressive-secular and urban camp, Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras, and some Pashtuns and those who live in the north and west. But it excluded one-third of Afghans, the rural, religious, traditional camp, who are Pashtuns in the south and eastwhich include the Talibanwhose forerunners we backed in 1980s, against the Soviets."

http://www.thenation.com/article/157203/matthew-hoh%E2%80%99s-afghanistan-insider-talks (http://www.thenation.com/article/157203/matthew-hoh%E2%80%99s-afghanistan-insider-talks)

4) Hosseini being 75% Pashtun means little if nothing in regard in the setting of his paternal origin and the fact that his Muhammadzai Kabuli maternal lineage exactly represented the protagonist in the story. He went in to slander the rural masses with his character Asef and went on to put salt in the wounds when he has Asef be a homosexual rapist who heils Hitler.

Quit talking trash and drop the act.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-22-2011, 10:46 AM
You persist on mistruths in the case of Bacha Bazai, a now proven turkic origin custom. You heaped that nonsense at the door of the tribes of FATA without basis.
ha ha ha .. now it is a Turkic custom? Come on, thats to easy, even for you to claim such a thing brother. Pedophelia is also taken place in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan .... America. It was always attested in our regions. Even great Khushal Khan Khattak and legendary Rahman Baba had fables for young boys. How can that beeing a Turkic case?

The movie Osama being based on a true story. BASED on a true story is a far cry from an actual true story where this a-s-s-hole Barmak depicts the Pashtun kaka as A) Raping and B) taking a public ghusl bath to make us look like Brutes


He just showed the life of people under Taliban. People were not able to go to schools. Girls couldnt go outside so they became boys and as boys they had to visit mosques where they got their education. Please, think a bit further. The movie was actually finished at beginning of 2000 before the invasion after 09/11. After 09/11 only the title was changed from Arrested to Osama. No matter if the movie is based on a true story or not...that does not count, it just show us the reality. The movie was just a mirror.

The Taliban were a neutralizer to Mossoud and the northern alliance rapists, Najib sympathizers, and all the other trash that attempted to impose their views on the rural masses of the Pashtun belt. Your dishonesty in attempting to make them seem like the moral odd man out shows your sympathies. Regarding your idiotic and very typical canard of a western upbringing somehow making an ideology incorrect, you show how big of a fool you really are. This is a manufactured and repetitive slander without merit and actually flies right back in your face. How? Well the folks you support, Mr. Karzai, Mr. Saleh, Mr. Hosseini, Mr. Spanta were all massive failures in the West and had to return on the back of an empire in order to make up for their subsequent inferiority complex of not being able to cut it. They want to reestablish an oligarchy so they can loot, steal, and milk the country for what it is worth:

I do not support Karzai. He himself is a Taliban and a puppet of ISI like his family was bfore. I just support mr. Saleh and Dr. Abdullah and everyone who work for a better life in Afghanistan. So what? Thats not a crime. If you think they are criminals than go and replace them. Neither Massoud nor anyone of them were rapists. The rapists were Gulbuddin, Sayaf and their supporters who used poisons against innocent women, girls, children and other helpless people. They were the kidnappers. Alone Gulbuddin and his men killed more people than Soviets did in Afghanistan. How do you deal with that fact?

Modern Taliban are not the Mujaheddins of yesterday. They are just children of Afghan immigrants and refugees in Pakistan who left the country for 30 years ago. They did not fought the Soviets. After 09/11 the Pashtuns in the south did not want the new government because of the non-Pashtun elements. So what is your intention. It just show that you have an ethnical agenda like those farmers, Taliban and nomads of southern Afghanistan.

Husseinis novels just showed us how Afghanistans history andn its modern society looks like. Nothing else. And he is 50% Pashtun. How can he be 75% Pashtun? Either his mother is a Pashtun from father side or his father is a Pashtun from father side so he would be a Pashtun, too. No matter what his mother is. Your ethnical agenda does not work. Husseini is neither a Pashtun nor a Tajik. He is a human-beeing. Unfortunately, some people think beeing at first Pashtun, Tajik ... is more important than beeing a human.

BarakzaiAbdali
05-22-2011, 10:56 AM
ha ha ha .. now it is a Turkic custom? Come on, thats to easy, even for you to claim such a thing brother. Pedophelia is also taken place in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan .... America. It was always attested in our regions. Even great Khushal Khan Khattak and legendary Rahman Baba had fables for young boys. How can that beeing a Turkic case?

He just showed the life of people under Taliban. People were not able to go to schools. Girls couldnt go outside so they became boys and as boys they had to visit mosques where they got their education. Please, think a bit further. The movie was actually finished at beginning of 2000 before the invasion after 09/11. After 09/11 only the title was changed from Arrested to Osama.

I do not support Karzai. He himself is a Taliban and a puppet of ISI like his family was bfore. I just support mr. Saleh and Dr. Abdullah and everyone who work for a better life in Afghanistan. So what? Thats not a crime. If you think they are criminals than go and replace them. Neither Massoud nor anyone of them were rapists. The rapists were Gulbuddin, Sayaf and their supporters who used poisons against innocent women, girls, children and other helpless people. They were the kidnappers. Alone Gulbuddin and his men killed more people than Soviets did in Afghanistan. How do you deal with that fact?

Modern Taliban are not the Mujaheddins of yesterday. They are just children of Afghan immigrants and refugees in Pakistan who left the country for 30 years ago. They did not fought the Soviets. After 09/11 the Pashtuns in the south did not want the new government because of the non-Pashtun elements. So what is your intention. It just show that you have an ethnical agenda like those farmers, Taliban and nomads of southern Afghanistan.

Husseinis novels just showed us how Afghanistans history andn its modern society looks like. Nothing else. And he is 50% Pashtun. How can he be 75% Pashtun? Either his mother is a Pashtun from father side or his father is a Pashtun from father side so he would be a Pashtun, too. No matter what his mother is. Your ethnical agenda does not work. Husseini is neither a Pashtun nor a Tajik. He is a human-beeing. Unfortunately, some people think beeing at first Pashtun, Tajik ... is more important than beeing a human.

As I said, it was you that alleged initially the custom arose in FATA. You have only yourself to blame. The custom was most commonly observed in your neck of the woods, not ours. So the onus is on you to deal with Bacha Bazai. Note that Najib Qureshi's film deal with those idiot warlords of the North who, like you, reflexively claim the custom came from Pakistan.

The Rapists were the Pashtuns? Give me a break. The original incentive for the Taliban to arm was rapes taking place under commanders in and around Kandahar. The Northern Alliance is not responsible for rape? Fahim is not corrupt? You are in a time warp and need a brain CT scan, not for stroke, but to examine whether your central nervous system exists in the first place.

"But it remains a fact that from 1992 to 1996, the Northern Alliance was a symbol of massacre, systematic rape and pillage. Which is why we and I include the US State Department welcomed the Taliban when they arrived in Kabul. The Northern Alliance left the city in 1996 with 50,000 dead behind it. Now its members are our foot soldiers."

http://www.rawa.org/na-killers.htm (http://www.rawa.org/na-killers.htm)

Heck they even tried to rape Lara Logan, what makes you so naive to think they did not do this in the turmoil period?

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Alliance+soldiers+plotted+to+rape+me%3B+EXCLUSIVE% 3A+TV+LARA'S+SHOCK...-a080333773 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Alliance+soldiers+plotted+to+rape+me%3B+EXCLUSIVE% 3A+TV+LARA'S+SHOCK...-a080333773)

"Lara, 30, who acknowledged that a sex attack was "always a possibility" while working among Afghanistan's brutal tribal factions, was saved by her loyal interpreter. She had interviewed the gun- carrying Alliance fighters and faced having to stay in the area overnight because it would be unsafe to travel after dark. The pair tried to bribe translator Mohammed Mohammadullah into delaying her departure and told him they planned to "have their way" with her

Mr. Saleh and Mr. Abdullah are the most ethnocentric b-a-s-t-a-rd-s out there.

Regarding the film, that is exactly the case. He is an opportunist that promoted a film that was otherwise trash in the wake of tragedy.

BarakzaiAbdali
05-22-2011, 11:06 AM
Bannu needs your help. please help BANNI SOY nation. Thank you.

I just sent them a 1 trillion dollar check.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-22-2011, 11:14 AM
As I said, it was you that alleged initially the custom arose in FATA. You have only yourself to blame. The custom was most commonly observed in your neck of the woods, not ours. So the onus is on you to deal with Bacha Bazai. Note that Najib Qureshi's film deal with those idiot warlords of the North who, like you, reflexively claim the custom came from Pakistan. I wrote the custom originates originally and very deep in tribal societies in tribal regions. Just because Quraishi wasnt in the south for that you cant make such a stupid claim. Do you know the tribal leader Allahdad? He is a Pashtun and he is a child molester. He is a ''northern warlord'' such as Gul Agha Sherzai is a child molester or the former governeur of Zabul Dilbar Jan Arman. In the north, it is common among some warlords and other powerful men, but in the south it is in fact an integral part of the society. Look the links I pasted here yesterday afternoon. Are you really such a stubborn person to deny the facts?
Pedophile Pashtunwali Bacha Bazi Culture In Southern Afghanistan-kandahar (http://wn.com/Pedophile_Pashtunwali_bacha_bazi_culture_in_southe rn_afghanistan-kandahar)
You cant say thats only a northern problem. That is souther-northern-westerna nd eastern problem in Afghanistan and depends no on any ethnic as you try to claim here.

The Rapists were the Pashtuns?Where did I say that? You just turn the words. I wrote the rapists were Gulbuddin, Sayaf and their supporters and loyalists. Look for the following: The rapists were Gulbuddin, Sayaf and their supporters who used poisons against innocent women, girls, children and other helpless people. They were the kidnappers. Alone Gulbuddin and his men killed more people than Soviets did in Afghanistan. How do you deal with that fact?The Northern Alliance is not responsible for rape? Fahim is not corrupt? You are in a time warp and need a brain CT scan, not for stroke, but to examine whether your central nervous system exists in the first place.Corruption was not the issue. But yes, Fahim is a corrupt man. Such as Karzai and his family and all others. Do you know that your beloved Taliban get 400mio. USD every year from the United States? Why? Because US need them. Who is the real corrupt and hypocrite fraction? Taliban, Karzai or Fahim? Neverlessness, all of them have only one aim. Power.

"But it remains a fact that from 1992 to 1996, the Northern Alliance was a symbol of massacre, systematic rape and pillage. Which is why we – and I include the US State Department – welcomed the Taliban when they arrived in Kabul. The Northern Alliance left the city in 1996 with 50,000 dead behind it. Now its members are our foot soldiers."RAWA and their articles haha .. RAWA is not reliable. They are liers. They are an ISI tool. Backed by Pakistans government of Bhenazir Bhutto and financed by ISI.

Heck they even tried to rape Lara Logan, what makes you so naive to think they did not do this in the turmoil period?So she go to Afghanistan to meet his rapists and interview them?? Hahaha ... keep claiming. How many rapers have the Taliban? How many rapers are there among Pashtuns or do Pashtuns dont have such persons? How many times Taliban kidnapped young girls? Dont write foolish. Bad and good people are everywhere, among every group, fraction and people.

Mr. Saleh and Mr. Abdullah are the most ethnocentric b-a-s-t-a-rd-s out there. How? Abdullah does not care about ethnicity and he is your keen-man. He is a Pashtun. How can he be anti-Pashtun? They just try to rescue your country from the hands of ISI and Taliban. Majority of their supporters are Pashtuns. Are they all b a s t a r d s, according to your logic?

gadoonwal
05-22-2011, 12:35 PM
I wrote the custom originates originally and very deep in tribal societies in tribal regions. Just because Quraishi wasnt in the south for that you cant make such a stupid claim. Do you know the tribal leader Allahdad? He is a Pashtun and he is a child molester. He is a ''northern warlord'' such as Gul Agha Sherzai is a child molester or the former governeur of Zabul Dilbar Jan Arman. In the north, it is common among some warlords and other powerful men, but in the south it is in fact an integral part of the society. Look the links I pasted here yesterday afternoon. Are you really such a stubborn person to deny the facts?
Pedophile Pashtunwali Bacha Bazi Culture In Southern Afghanistan-kandahar (http://wn.com/Pedophile_Pashtunwali_bacha_bazi_culture_in_southe rn_afghanistan-kandahar)
You cant say thats only a northern problem. That is souther-northern-westerna nd eastern problem in Afghanistan and depends no on any ethnic as you try to claim here.

Where did I say that? You just turn the words. I wrote the rapists were Gulbuddin, Sayaf and their supporters and loyalists. Look for the following: Corruption was not the issue. But yes, Fahim is a corrupt man. Such as Karzai and his family and all others. Do you know that your beloved Taliban get 400mio. USD every year from the United States? Why? Because US need them. Who is the real corrupt and hypocrite fraction? Taliban, Karzai or Fahim? Neverlessness, all of them have only one aim. Power.

RAWA and their articles haha .. RAWA is not reliable. They are liers. They are an ISI tool. Backed by Pakistans government of Bhenazir Bhutto and financed by ISI.

So she go to Afghanistan to meet his rapists and interview them?? Hahaha ... keep claiming. How many rapers have the Taliban? How many rapers are there among Pashtuns or do Pashtuns dont have such persons? How many times Taliban kidnapped young girls? Dont write foolish. Bad and good people are everywhere, among every group, fraction and people.

How? Abdullah does not care about ethnicity and he is your keen-man. He is a Pashtun. How can he be anti-Pashtun? They just try to rescue your country from the hands of ISI and Taliban. Majority of their supporters are Pashtuns. Are they all b a s t a r d s, according to your logic?
dr abdullah,s supporters are majority non-pashtuns pls do,nt lie.
He is punjsheri tajik with strong anti-pashtun views.He change his ethnicity for votes but badly failed.
All these leaders are pupets,corrupts and useles for all people of afghanistan so it is not right to play ethnic card everywhere.
Some are on the payroll of isi,some with links to iran and west etc.
You sould think about the suffering of your people.
People need better health system,peace,education,jobs and food etc not war.

Nokia_Apridy
05-22-2011, 01:36 PM
gadonwala PF ka ba BAned sha .......chay dasey mung shu laka chay ta

walekal .....

haga ka bya ba baned shay ya ba racist shay ya ba kafir...

gadoonwal
05-22-2011, 01:52 PM
gadonwala PF ka ba BAned sha .......chay dasey mung shu laka chay ta

walekal .....

haga ka bya ba baned shay ya ba racist shay ya ba kafir...
haga sanga?
dasai koma gunah me kari de?
da forum da pakhtun pa nom de aw mung da haq laro chi khpal khyaalat/nazar sargand kro.mung da chaa sa spakawai kho nadia karai?
bala da chi ka ban sho na da kom janata ba bahar show.gham ba e da bada berai zubair ky.
rakhtya ba leeko da chaa perzad na da khpalia gatai aw malomato dapara.

AFG21
05-23-2011, 08:44 AM
I saw the film and I think it was terrible
Especialy the rape scene it was terrible because I did't know that
somthing like this was happening in afghanistan and that such act was also done by a pashtun. But my father said that things like this uzbaks and thajiks did it more often that any other ethnic group in Afghanistan. Especilay those Mujahids.

gadoonwal
05-23-2011, 01:20 PM
I saw the film and I think it was terrible
Especialy the rape scene it was terrible because I did't know that
somthing like this was happening in afghanistan and that such act was also done by a pashtun. But my father said that things like this uzbaks and thajiks did it more often that any other ethnic group in Afghanistan. Especilay those Mujahids.
These people have their political agenda behind .
Pashtuns are very respectfull to women.thats not true.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-23-2011, 03:06 PM
dr abdullah,s supporters are majority non-pashtuns pls do,nt lie.

Abdullah have supporters mainly in the Kabul region. Majority of them are Pashtuns from eastern Afghanistan. From Jalalabad to Nangahar.

He is punjsheri tajik with strong anti-pashtun views.He change his ethnicity for votes but badly failed.

He is half-half. Can you please show us where he is anti or was anytime an animal?

All these leaders are pupets,corrupts and useles for all people of afghanistan so it is not right to play ethnic card everywhere.

Puppets of whom? How can they be puppets when they fight against the puppet regime and the Pakistani/Arab intervene in our country, making out of it a fifth province of Pakistan?!

Some are on the payroll of isi,some with links to iran and west etc.

Who of them? Have you sources for that claim? Just because he is a Darizuban he is an agent of Iran? Thats not a logic. Pashtuns always ran toward Pashauwar. Were they agents of Pakistan?

You sould think about the suffering of your people.

Who is my people? I dont know them. I just know them as Afghanistan. The same do those persons. They fight for the rights of our people and the righst of our children and elders who have no food to survive the next months.

People need better health system,peace,education,jobs and food etc not war.

Thats true, but didnt we have such things once a day? Oh yes, only during the evil soviets era and because all those things were products of infidels as the soviets were we had to destroy them. Sometimes I ask myself how Afghanistan would looks like if the British Empire had installed itself permanently there... possibly our country would had been like India? A very old ancient country but at the same time modern.

Darweshkhel
05-24-2011, 03:27 AM
Taliban is not even a Pashtu word. Taliban is Arabic with the ending -an which is taken from Dari which give the word a plural form. The first people who used the word Taliban were the Mujaheddin. Later the word became popular in a very negative sense ...

oh please, thats another wackipedia definition by foreigners for non-afghans. come on man, half of our vocabulary is adopted from arabic plus talib is a religious term. do me a favor and stop dumping that wikitrash on PF.

go ahead and do some research tell us something new. read some pashto literature or poetry from the last century and youll find out taliban did exist loooong time ago, the word AND the students themselves. religious students are being called taliban for hundreds of years among pashtuns. the term has just been politicized during the last decade. you thought taliban was a new phenomenon but it wasnt the media was fooling and manipulating you=). this is NOT a NEW TERM so please update you data and stop that talk.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-24-2011, 10:17 AM
oh please, thats another wackipedia definition by foreigners for non-afghans. come on man, half of our vocabulary is adopted from arabic plus talib is a religious term. do me a favor and stop dumping that wikitrash on PF.

Thats what I said. The term Talib is arabic and the ending -an is from Dari. It has nothing to do with wikipedia or anything else. Just open a dictionary.

go ahead and do some research tell us something new. read some pashto literature or poetry from the last century and youll find out taliban did exist loooong time ago, the word AND the students themselves. religious students are being called taliban for hundreds of years among pashtuns

The term Taliban was nevr used in Afghanistan before the era of the Soviets. Modern Taliban are not the same as for 30 years ago. Today Taliban are children of refugees. Show one example where the term was used in the past. Mujahed was always in use in India, Pakistan, Central Asia, Iran and Iraq. Even Arabs do not use it.

you thought taliban was a new phenomenon but it wasnt the media was fooling and manipulating you=). this is NOT a NEW TERM so please update you data and stop that talk.

Prove it where I said that.

کیش
05-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Thats what I said. The term Talib is arabic and the ending -an is from Dari. It has nothing to do with wikipedia or anything else. Just open a dictionary.



The term Taliban was nevr used in Afghanistan before the era of the Soviets. Modern Taliban are not the same as for 30 years ago. Today Taliban are children of refugees. Show one example where the term was used in the past. Mujahed was always in use in India, Pakistan, Central Asia, Iran and Iraq. Even Arabs do not use it.



Prove it where I said that.

Are you blind, I told you why the (an) comes into play, in the word "Talib". Reread my earlier post about it, I know your just a bull****ter.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-25-2011, 06:23 AM
Khaled Hosseini: Biography from Answers.com (http://www.answers.com/topic/khaled-hosseini)

khashayar
05-25-2011, 06:27 AM
Kite runner was an overrated, over inflated bore. I wiped my ass with it when I ran out of toilet paper.

The end.

faye
05-25-2011, 06:31 AM
what, the video? ouch!:cryy:

khashayar
05-25-2011, 06:34 AM
Lol.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-25-2011, 11:42 AM
-an, is used in both dari and pashto, what proof do you have that pashto borrowed it from Dari? In linguistic term Dari (modern farsi) is only 1200-1300 hundred years old, pashto as noted by its character is older than modern Dari. if both languages share some similarity its because they come from the same root. But you as Dari speaker claim that -an came from Dari to pashto while pashto is older than Dari. Your logic and argument is quite absurd to say the least. Your not a linguist so before you claim something use your brain please and back up your argument with some evidence. -an is used is used for plural in both Dari and pashto. You can't prove that it came from Dari to pashto. if you can then please enlighten us, as this will improve our undrestanding of both languages.

Pashtu is no old. If scholars date the roots of Pashtu than to the 8th century and not earlier, if not the 16th century. ''-an'' is not native to other languages, except Dari and Farsi. Actually it is even not native to Farsi but to Palawi language that Farsi adoptet. Urdu has also older charakterists because of Indian elements (as well on Pashtu) but the language came to life under the Mughals. There were never old Pashtu or something like that. The language you speak is a modern language, same as you claim for Dari, neverlessness Dari can still seen reflected in older dialects while for Pashtu there is no proof. Thats also a reason why Pashtu had never any influence on other languages while in return other languages had great influence on Pashtu and Pakhtu. If I claim something you think it is wrong than you need to prove me wrong.

Albani_Rahmat_Kabulzada
05-25-2011, 12:26 PM
lol, 16th century? are you mad? its true that there aren't written records of pashto older than 16th-17th century but that doesn't mean nobody spoke pashto. I am sure Nick bro will give more info because he is familiar with this subject. pashto is classified as northeastern iranian language and the indic ifluences are borrowed and recent. its on encyclopedia iranica, you can check it. you claim that pashto has no ancestor, so where did it come from. there are already threads on this forum which show similarity between pashto and sanskrit and avestan. pashto does have some influence on farsi, some dari speakers say "jorr asti"?. an iranian wouldn't even undrestand that because it has pashto word. there are small examples like that. but dari influenced pashto more because dari was supported more by the kings and so it advanced more. all languages borrow from each other, its nothing new.

You can not compare modern Pashtu with a language that once was spoken in the region Pashtuns inhabit that could be called as fore-runner, a language among other regional languages which possibly were replaced by ''Pashtu''. Modern Pashtu is a conclusion of many different languages. Modern Pashtu is different than a ''Pashtu'' that was spoken for 800years ago. The works of Nick are worthless because they are fakes. He is not a linguists and by far not a scholar. He in the mid of his tweenties and yet have not even finished a real school and his works try to claim others achievements for only for Pashtuns and falsyfie even scholars works or invent new terms that do not exist. If you believe such a person, its your right. But noone will take you serious. Outside this forum Nick have gave up with his BS and biass, why? Your logic does not make sense. There is also similarity between Dari, Farsi Avestan and Sanscrit (safid->Sapid->Svet; Jashn->Jasna->Jasana...). So what shall that prove, except that all four languages are from the same families. ''Jor'' is the Farsi/Dari word for ''fine'', ''well''. Its related with ''cure'', ''auskurieren'', ''secure'' etc. Dont talk such a BS. Tehranis would say ''jori''. Dari and Farsi were dominant because they are both dialects of the same language belonging to the same civilisation, from Ghazni to Kurdistan. It was spoken from the 3rd century till today. And many people took that language even beyond the borders of these large country, far away to Bengal and Nepal ot to Anatolia and Balkan. It became the languages of kings who were not even native to it. But Pashtu is kept mainly the language of the mountains and valleys in the east. The advantage of Dari was based on its native speakers who served as wakils, vazirs, poets, teachers and and and (''Men of Pen'', ever heard that word? I guess no you aint). Pashtuns on the other hand served as soldiers for every kind of people, except some souls (legendary Rahman Baba, Khushal Khan Khattak...) who were serving their own nation.

unknownprince
05-25-2011, 12:38 PM
i red book. why did they make pashtun all bad charachers like Asef. Amir was bad character who not good friend to Hassan. they make Amir dad bad too.

all pathans made to look bad? Why?

Prince_Pukhtun
05-25-2011, 10:00 PM
alot of friends here seem to only remember the scene with hassan and assef

and for some reason asked me if its common! i get angry and say no it isnt!

kakargirl
05-25-2011, 10:52 PM
alot of friends here seem to only remember the scene with hassan and assef

and for some reason asked me if its common! i get angry and say no it isnt!wror pa khair raghlai to the forum 1st and its all propaganda against pashtuns to make us look bad.