View Full Version : Mixed Discussion: Jinnah, Drinking and Creation of Pakistan


Khushal Khan Khattak
05-02-2010, 12:26 AM
Refutation of the absurd: Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was not a Muslim


http://kashifiat.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/quaid-e-azam-praying.jpg
[Quaid Muhammad Ali Jinnah praying with the faithful]


There have been some individuals with ulterior motives who would like to waste the time of many by going into useless debates wasting hours upon hours of precious time.


Such people usually select the weakest and most absurd of accusations to serve:

1) division among brothers both Pakistani and Afghanistani Pushtuns
2) derive gains from this division.

Recently, I was made to feel guilty for having the picture of a man in my avatar. The accusation being:

Your so called founder is not even a Muslim, cause his father's name was Jeenaa, how can a Muslim's name be like that?


OR


He belonged to this and that sect, and we being Hanafis etc etc dont even consider them Muslims.



Here are some quotations and speeches from the same man. His name was Muhammad Ali Jinnah. He liked being called Mohammad Ali.


Deduce from his own words for your own selves what conclusions can be drawn about his:

1) Religious beliefs &
2) His kindness and warm symapthies for Pushtuns.

======================================


Jinnah continued: "Then it seems to me that what I have already said is like throwing water on duck`s back (laughter). When you talk of democracy (http://www.chowk.com/tag/democracy), I am afraid you have not studied Islam (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Islam). We learned democracy (http://www.chowk.com/tag/democracy) thirteen centuries ago."

15 July, 1947 (http://www.chowk.com/tag/1947) press conference.


=======================

“The Khan brothers…have raised another cry that the PCA (Pakistan (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Pakistan)
Constituent Assembly) will disregard the fundamental principles of the Shari’ah and Qur’anic laws. This, again, is absolutely untrue. More than thirteen centuries have gone by ….. we have not only been proud of our great and Holy Book, the Qur’an, but we have adhered to all these fundamentals all these ages, and now this cry has been raised…[that] we cannot be trusted.??'"

=======================

“I want the Muslims of the Frontier Province clearly to understand that they are Muslims first and Pathans afterwards…".


=======================

According to the Pakistani scholar Ishtiaq Ahmad, there had always been support for the shariah to be found in a few of Jinnah (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Jinnah)’s pronouncements, as when he promised the Pir of Manki Sharif to enforce the Shariah in exchange for his support for the Muslim League in the 1946 elections (http://www.chowk.com/tag/elections).

(Sadly, before he could do realize this vision, being old and suffering from TB, he died soon after the creation of Pakistan. Inna lillah hi wa inna iley hi rajioon)

=======================

Jinnah (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Jinnah) alluded many times to an Islamic State. For example, in a broadcast address to the people of the United States of America in February 1948 - Jinnah (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Jinnah) described Pakistan (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Pakistan) as “the premier Islamic State".

=======================

Mr. Jinnah (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Jinnah) said: “The Government (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Government) of Pakistan (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Pakistan) has no desire whatsoever to interfere in any way with the traditional independence of the Tribal Areas. On the contrary, we feel as a Muslim State [emphasis added], we can always rely on [the] active support and sympathy of the tribes".


31 July, 1947 (http://www.chowk.com/tag/1947) addressed to the Tribal Areas.


=======================

“In the end, I would appeal to all the different elements in the Frontier Province and in the Tribal Areas to forget past disputes and differences and join hands with the Government (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Government) of Pakistan (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Pakistan) in setting up a truly democratic Islamic State.



31 July, 1947 (http://www.chowk.com/tag/1947) addressed to the Tribal Areas.


=======================

He used similar terminology - referring to Pakistan (http://www.chowk.com/tag/Pakistan) as a “Muslim State" - in a statement of assurance to the people of Baluchistan.

=======================

“Let us lay the foundations of our democracy (http://www.chowk.com/tag/democracy) on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that our decisions in the affairs of the state shall be guided by discussion and consultations."


Sibi Darbar in 1948.


=======================

“… Over half a million Jews have already been accommodated in Jerusalem against the wishes of the people.

May I know which country has accommodated them? I have great sympathy for them and have no ill-will against the Jews but the question is that they have entered Palestine with a set motive to re-conquer Jerusalem with the help of British and American forces. I hope the Jews will not succeed in their nefarious designs and I wish Great Britain and America should keep their hands off from there and then I will see how the Jews Conquer Jerusalem. Every man and woman of Muslim world will die before Jews seize Jerusalem. …. And if such exploitation of small nations is to continue even after this bloody war then let us pray to God to send some more destructive force than the atomic bomb to do the work and job of this world.”


delivering a speech at a meeting held under the auspices of Balochistan Muslim League on October 10, 1945.


=======================

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-02-2010, 12:36 AM
I guess the only problem people might have is, Rather then having a picture of Kushal khan bigger then Jinnah or Rahman baba, or Ahmad Shah, you have Jinnah.

but that does not matter cause its all about your heart. and from what I have noticed, you are a good man.

Thanx for such kind and nice words as usual from you dear sister. :laugh1:

As for the Avatar, Khushal Baba, Ahmad Shah Baba and so on are my blood ancestors, I have more respect for them than for Quaid i Azam, but the avatar was made to represent how a Pakistani Afghan/Pushtun feels.

Though I am planning on changing it to something that would be more Afghan.

PS: please read what the Quaid said, especially things like his last post about Islam and Jerusalem and the Qibla i awwal.

and lemme know your views. :laugh1:

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 01:46 AM
Khushal khattak showing a picture of jinnah praying supposedly is not proof of his islam. In fact many biographers including stanley woolpert have mentioned his lack of religious practise, and the fact that he indulged in vices like alcohol, pork, etc. Loll the man did not uphold any of the five pillars (four if we want to be charitable and give him the kalima). You are just regurgitating mutaliya e pakistan, that is all. Hec the man was against the khilafa movement, is there anything to be said when he talks about `muslim state`..lol even Saudi considers itself an islamic state.

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 01:51 AM
Wajid Ali a friend of Jinnah once asked him, “Quaid! tell me how you have bamboozled the Musalmans. You enjoy yourself in the evening, you are not a scholar of Urdu, you don’t practice your religion – how do you manage to be their leader? Jinnah replied, ’have I ever told you that I am your leader as a Musalman? I am an advocate, pleading the cause of Musalmans, taking the part of Musalmans, fighting their fight. Nothing more nothing less” (Amulya Ganguli in Asian Age dated June 10, 2005).

this is also in a book by a european historian, when I find it I will link it as well. In that very book the author even mentions Jinnah being regretful for the partition.

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 01:52 AM
Oh and btw your argument is absurd that people who are exposing jinnah are creating divisions between pashtuns. That is like saying a person who calls out the rapist is victimizing the assaulted woman. We have to expose him as his and britain`s idea of a pakistan has led to the ultimate division of lar au bar afghan watan.

Oh and here it is
“According to his doctor,” writes Alex von Tunzelmann in Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire, “Jinnah [in his last days] saw Liaquat [Ali Khan] and told him that Pakistan was ‘the biggest blunder of my life’. Further yet, he declared: ‘If now I get an opportunity, I will go to Delhi and tell Jawaharlal to forget about the follies of the past and become friends again.’”

“There can be no doubt,” writes von Tunzelmann, “that his public championing of the Muslim League’s cause in the House of Commons throughout 1946 and 1947, and of Pakistan’s thereafter, was crucial both to the creation of Pakistan and to the British government’s support for its interests over the years to come. If Jinnah is regarded as the father of Pakistan, [Winston] Churchill must qualify as its uncle; and, therefore, as a pivotal figure in the resurgence of political Islam.”

the author alex von tunzelmann, he wrote the Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire

imb706
05-02-2010, 05:02 AM
Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

شمله ور خراساني
05-02-2010, 07:45 AM
Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

No! He was the Chiang Kai-shek of Pakistan.

I heard he didn't even know how to pray.

imb706
05-02-2010, 07:51 AM
Well, I meant as in the founder of the country. But he was a strong armed dictator?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-02-2010, 07:51 AM
No! He was the Chiang Kai-shek of Pakistan.

I heard he didn't even know how to pray.


How dare you Insult Jinnah, if it wasnt for Jinnah, your Neo Jihadi Nexus wouldnt be even placed on this earth hahaha! Sangar i remember you use to go around youtube calling Punjabis as blackies etc, ohhh you know very well you inside love them very much as they are your Punjabi Taliban brothers.

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-02-2010, 12:00 PM
Hec the man was against the khilafa movement

Yes because at that time he was in the Congress, the same Congress that Bacha Khan liked more than the MUSLIM League.

I am an advocate, pleading the cause of Musalmans, taking the part of Musalmans, fighting their fight. Nothing more nothing less”

I dont want more from him. Da hagha khpal qabar wo zamung khpal dey.
I dont care how good a Muslim he was or not, there arent any good/true Muslims even today so no problemo since the religion lives on.

Wasn't this guy the Thomas Paine of Pakistan?

You could have googled !!! :lal9:

Well, I meant as in the founder of the country. But he was a strong armed dictator?

He was a British qualified Barrister at Law, meaning a highly qualified advocate, the most prominent leader supporting a democratic system in the sub continent after the British were to leave. He was the first Governor General which is like President of the Republic in British systems.

Bottomline: He was the complete opposite of a dictator.

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 03:25 PM
Loll khushal khan that is a cop out of the highest order. Hahaha. Ok listen Congress had many muslim followers and part members, so I don't see your point. BTW Khilafah movement was supported by people outside of the congress as well. The reason Jinnah did not support it was that he had little to do or like about Islam, and he was a staunch secular indian nationalist. Now you trying to revise his life and pretending he was some great muslim advocate won't change who or what he was. You also didn't read the second quote or have read up on other sources that he was from a khwaja ismaili family and that he had even granted the british bases. See when you cut away this rhetoric and everything, you will realize that pakistan was a british creation for and by their interests. Nice try though.

p.s. its ironic though that the same people who say 'yahoodeezz' every second word end up not seeing how close pakistan is to israel in terms of situation and history (not in terms of development though).

Son of Mountains
05-02-2010, 03:48 PM
^The actual reason why you call him a non muslim is that he was by chance a non Afghan. His bad luck!
What so ever he was, what so ever his made country is, now the ground reality is, it is a strong islamic country, atomic power, your argumentations can neither break it, nor give it even a little loss InshaAllah.

Son of Mountains
05-02-2010, 03:52 PM
@K-cube... U have done a really great job marra. You r really a good pakistani, this makes u a good Pashtun! Allah de pa makha gulloona ka. Dera manana wrora

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 07:02 PM
^The actual reason why you call him a non muslim is that he was by chance a non Afghan. His bad luck!
What so ever he was, what so ever his made country is, now the ground reality is, it is a strong islamic country, atomic power, your argumentations can neither break it, nor give it even a little loss InshaAllah.

You know that is not true. However if it makes you feel better then so be it. Wrorkiyaa thaso bandae na dae raaghalae zakaa thaso wuss jeevae jeevae lag zyaath kawaee..che ISI/army thabahii woweenaee ao ya agha lobaa nu bya ba darna thaposs wokaammm che mung asae waayuu ao ka dar bandae badh wraazae raaghlal. unfortunately our people only learn when it destroys their own village or home.

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-02-2010, 07:09 PM
You know that is not true. However if it makes you feel better then so be it. Wrorkiyaa thaso bandae na dae raaghalae zakaa thaso wuss jeevae jeevae lag zyaath kawaee..che ISI/army thabahii woweenaee ao ya agha lobaa nu bya ba darna thaposs wokaammm che mung asae waayuu ao ka dar bandae badh wraazae raaghlal. unfortunately our people only learn when it destroys their own village or home.

I know how it feels.
my own friends have suffered it.
It is sad and disgusting and really bad.

To be honest, I will not support what our Army/agencies do, how they do it, since they have shown on many occasions that they do it wrong, still, honestly speaking, Pakistan Army and Agencies are only one group in the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is far more ugly, and Pakistan Army and Co. are only part of the ugliness of this picture.

I hope you understand that as well.

BLS_1919v2.0
05-02-2010, 07:12 PM
I know how it feels.
my own friends have suffered it.
It is sad and disgusting and really bad.

To be honest, I will not support what our Army/agencies do, how they do it, since they have shown on many occasions that they do it wrong, still, honestly speaking, Pakistan Army and Agencies are only one group in the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is far more ugly, and Pakistan Army and Co. are only part of the ugliness of this picture.

I hope you understand that as well.

Yes I understand very well..but in the bigger scheme of things it is our dukhman not our friend. Wrora you can slice and dice it anyway you please, you can throw in israel, nassara or even Betty white (if it makes you all feel better), but you know that they are our dukhmans as well. Pakistan state, idealogy, army, watan da pakhtano dukhman dae. They are using us against India and in the process destroying us. I am not their or peerangyaan or india's donkey, that when you want you use me and when you are done you throw me away. Wuss ba mung da lar au bar afghan khabarae kaoo..nur kho bass khalko saraa zulm dae.

شمله ور خراساني
05-02-2010, 07:13 PM
^The actual reason why you call him a non muslim is that he was by chance a non Afghan. His bad luck!
What so ever he was, what so ever his made country is, now the ground reality is, it is a strong islamic country, atomic power, your argumentations can neither break it, nor give it even a little loss InshaAllah.
You know, there is a joke in Afghanistan. They say a thug caught a boy and pulled his pants down and started raping him. While he was raping the boy he noticed the boy is carrying a pistol. And he asked the boy, what the pistol is for. The boy said, its for in case I get in to trouble. The thug was shocked and said, is there any trouble more severe than getting raped?

This joke applies to current situation of Pakistan. Pakistan is dominated by AMerica, Americans kill people inside Pakistani soil and the army of Pakistan attacks its own people and massacres Pashtuns for money they receive from America. And yet some people claim Pakistan is a "strong Islamic nuclear armed nation" hahah

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-02-2010, 07:17 PM
You know, there is a joke in Afghanistan. They say a thug caught a boy and pulled his pants down and started raping him. While he was raping the boy he noticed the boy is carrying a pistol. And he asked the boy, what the pistol is for. The boy said, its for in case I get in to trouble. The thug was shocked and said, is there any trouble more severe than getting raped?


^ That is actually not a very good taste in jokes brother.

Please avoid them.

imb706
05-03-2010, 05:49 AM
You could have googled !!! By your response, I don't even think you know who and what I'm talking about.

Yousafzai Pakhtun
05-03-2010, 06:38 AM
Khushal Khan Khattak;20456]Yes because at that time he was in the Congress, the same Congress that Bacha Khan liked more than the MUSLIM League.[/COLOR]

I dont want more from him. Da hagha khpal qabar wo zamung khpal dey.
I dont care how good a Muslim he was or not, there arent any good/true Muslims even today so no problemo since the religion lives on.

(1) But you should also keep this in mind that almost all the Muslim leaders of All India National Congress participated in Khilafat movement with religious zeal and enthusiasm......but your jinnah couldn't..

(2) Kha uss khabara qabar ta raaghla....lolzzz....so now u don't care how good a Muslim he was...it means you have accepted that jinnah was not a True Muslim....and that he only pretended to be one...infact he just acted upon the lesson which was taught to him by the Britishers .....
so its all over your have accepted that he might not a True Muslims....the thread may be closed now.....bcoz u have started it to prove that he was a True Muslim....:celebrate:

By the way i can post similar quotes about Islam and Musalman from Mr. Gandhi tooo....so by pointing to the quotes in Mutaliya Pakistan Book for class 12 you can't deny the facts.....

imb706
05-03-2010, 08:39 AM
According to the Tea Partyers, he is.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 06:32 AM
"Despite this remarkable accomplishment, Jinnah remains an enigmatic and controversial figure. Although he began his career as a respected leader of the Indian National Congress, he ended it as its most implacable opponent. Although he was not a devout Muslim (he drank alcohol and ate pork), he demanded in the name of Islam the creation of Pakistan. Although he could not speak most of the main Indian Muslim languages, he captivated audiences of millions during the campaign for Pakistan."


http://historytoday.com/MainArticle.aspx?m=12674&amid=12674

"MJ Akbar has written these lines describing his persona,"Muhammad Ali Jinnah, aristocrat by temperament, catholic in taste, sectarian in politics, and the father of Pakistan, was the unlikeliest parent that an Islamic republic could possibly have. He was the most British of the generation of Indians that won freedom in August 1947. As a child in the elite Christian Mission High School in Karachi, he changed his birthday from 20 October to Christmas Day. As a student at Lincoln's Inn, he anglicised his name from Jinnahbhai to Jinnah. For three years, between 1930 and 1933, he went into voluntary exile in Hampstead, acquired a British passport, set up residence with his sister Fatimah and daughter Dina, hired a British chauffeur (Bradley) for his Bentley, kept two dogs (a black Dobermann and a white West Highland terrier), indulged himself at the theatre (he had once wanted to be a professional actor so that he could play Hamlet) and appeared before the Privy Council to maintain himself in the style to which he was accustomed. He wore Savile Row suits, heavily starched shirts and two-tone leather or suede shoes……Despite being the Quaid-e-Azam, or the Great Leader of Muslims, he drank a moderate amount of alcohol and was embarrassingly unfamiliar with Islamic methods of prayer. He was uncomfortable in any language but English, and made his demand for Pakistan — in 1940 at Lahore — in English, despite catcalls from an audience that wanted to hear Urdu.”

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indus-calling/entry/jinnah-he-had-a-pistol

"Jinnah built a house in Malabar Hill, later known as Jinnah House. He was not an observing Muslim, taking pork and alcohol, dressed throughout his life in European-style clothes, and spoke in English more than his mother tongue, Gujarati."

http://www.whereincity.com/india/great-indians/freedom-fighters/muhammad-ali.php

Son of Mountains
05-17-2010, 09:29 AM
Infact, pakistan came into existance bcz it was God's will
It will survive up-till God wishes
God selected Muhammad Ali Jinnah R.A for this deed
May God fill his grave with Noor
U people are worst actually.....Go back to Afghanistan

Son of Mountains
05-17-2010, 09:32 AM
Now someone will come and say: "Do not bring God in our matters"
lol........try to break our Pakistan....yes come....we will break your teeth

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 09:32 AM
Infact, pakistan came into existance bcz it was God's will
It will survive up-till God wishes
God selected Muhammad Ali Jinnah R.A for this deed
May God fill his grave with Noor
U people are worst actually.....Go back to Afghanistan

You go back to Punjab and preach your Ismaili Theories there.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 09:34 AM
Now someone will come and say: "Do not bring God in our matters"
lol........try to break our Pakistan....yes come....we will break your teeth


say this in Waziristan and we will shave your britonna and hang you on a lappost with your other Pakistani Jawans. Call yourself a PMAP member, u fake person, ur such a lair!

Son of Mountains
05-17-2010, 09:41 AM
OHHHH Chaundry Saab, what non sense is this!!!!!!!!! you faker! ur not even in PMAP! your jinnah was a Murtad Monafiq! he was begger of the British, he ate pork and drank whisky! and u insult Islam by using his name, Allah didnt choose a murtad such as him for any isalmic cause, the british chose him! Where is the shariat laws, where is the Islamic laws, you are a liar and deceiving SOM!

You go back to Punjab you little Hindkomar, i bet your not even a Pashtun but a fake, look at you say go back to afghanistan, if pashtuns go back to afghanistan so will your mashar achakzai you little fake! we know you are a Punjabi! which side of your family is Punjabi, dont be ashamed to tell us.
U r repoted bachaya

Son of Mountains
05-17-2010, 09:42 AM
say this in Waziristan and we will shave your britonna and hang you on a lappost with your other Pakistani Jawans. Call yourself a PMAP member, u fake person, ur such a lair!
again cry Mr......

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 09:57 AM
U r repoted bachaya

Oh really, so you reported me jasusa!

always remmeber, who provoked it? who told me to go back to Afghanistan when iam very happy in Waziristan. I will say very proudly

YOU ARE A FAKE, ANTI PASHTUN, JINNAH LOVER, WHO TOLD ME TO GO BACK TO AFGHANISTAN,YOU ARE A PUNJABI RACIST,GO AND REPORT THAT.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 10:31 AM
how many times do i have to tell you people?!
THE TERM PUNJABI IS NOT AN INSULT!
how low can you people possibly get?!

i m not going to call out names but i really feel like picking up a rock and smashing a certain some one's teeth.



I know you mean me, but hey stick to sewing clothes and keeping the kitchen clean and tidy.

IamDZJ
05-17-2010, 10:35 AM
I know you mean me, but hey stick to sewing clothes and keeping the kitchen clean and tidy.


i would smack you so hard, it would take you a lifetime to recover from it. you just thank God this is a discussion forum. you sorry excuse of a man.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 10:39 AM
i would smack you so hard, it would take you a lifetime to recover from it. you just thank God this is a discussion forum. you sorry excuse of a man.

I understand from the gibberish you speak, you are probably on your periods. Keep your non sense to yourself, or go hassle your husband.

IamDZJ
05-17-2010, 10:42 AM
Keep your sarcastic threats to yourself, Stop acting like a man or a lesbian on this forum. I understand your very strange and come out with stupid comments, but hey Allah made people like this to annoy others. Butt out of my arguements and debates, and stick to being a woman.
__________________

if things like you start claiming themselves to be men, then i have no choice but to become a lesbian.
save it posterboyforbeghairati, i am not qratu that you play by your lesbian card. call me whatever pleases you and believe me, my opinion of you will not change a bit.
you may not send me a private message again.

IamDZJ
05-17-2010, 10:44 AM
I understand from the gibberish you speak, you are probably on your periods. Keep your non sense to yourself, or go hassle your husband.

you are only confronted about your stupidity by women in your surroundings when they are in their periods? what kind of a beghairat pukhtoon are you?

Son of Mountains
05-17-2010, 10:45 AM
Keep your sarcastic threats to yourself, Stop acting like a man or a lesbian on this forum. I understand your very strange and come out with stupid comments, but hey Allah made people like this to annoy others. Butt out of my arguements and debates, and stick to being a woman.
__________________

if things like you start claiming themselves to be men, then i have no choice but to become a lesbian.
save posterboyforbeghairati, i am not qratu that you play by your lesbian card. call me whatever pleases you and believe me, my opinion of you will not change a bit.
you may not send me a private message again.

U r right sir.....I also donot want to talk a person commenting such a way

MazloomyarMaseed
05-17-2010, 10:50 AM
U r right sir.....I also donot want to talk a person commenting such a way


haha he also called your a SIR

Admin Khan
05-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Locked.

Guys seriously.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-18-2010, 07:47 AM
Jinnah was very fond of whisky

Michin Khel
05-18-2010, 10:56 AM
Jinnah was very fond of whisky

Drinking and eating pork were his personel problems. we know that he was not a mullah or practicing muslim, he was a politician, a sharp one. He never claimed that he is a good practicing muslim. I should be concerned and interested only with his political achievements and its effects nor in his eating habits.
I have watched the drinking by ANP leaders with my own eyes , what should i assume about secular ANP-walas?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-18-2010, 11:03 AM
Drinking and eating pork were his personel problems. we know that he was not a mullah or practicing muslim, he was a politician, a sharp one. He never claimed that he is a good practicing muslim. I should be concerned and interested only with his political achievements and its effects nor in his eating habits.
I have watched the drinking by ANP leaders with my own eyes , what should i assume about secular ANP-walas?

Luffy...When you deceive millions of Muslims with a promise of a Islamic state but instead your character decieves them and adopt British Laws such as the FCR, what does this tell you? I understand you are a supporter of Jinnah and you try and make us go against balochs because they hate Punjabis etc, for which i admire, but however ANP are nothing but a bunch of Nim pashtin/ Half Pukhtuns. Most of them are little murtads who are Pakistani than Pashtun.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-18-2010, 11:14 AM
Drinking and eating pork were his personel problems. we know that he was not a mullah or practicing muslim, he was a politician, a sharp one. He never claimed that he is a good practicing muslim. I should be concerned and interested only with his political achievements and its effects nor in his eating habits.


Quoted for truth.


Jinnah had love for his fellow Muslims. He wanted to give their aptitudes an equal opportunity in a country for Muslims.

When he wanted to created the state of Pakistan, the Muslim clergy of that time were vehemently against him. They did not want a state for Muslims.

Guess what, who is running Pakistan today? The exact people who were against its creation: the clergy.

So, I would not bash Jinnah. What Luffy said is correct. Let Allah be the final judge.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-18-2010, 11:18 AM
Quoted for truth.


Jinnah had love for his fellow Muslims. He wanted to give their aptitudes an equal opportunity in a country for Muslims.

When he wanted to created the state of Pakistan, the Muslim clergy of that time were vehemently against him. They did not want a state for Muslims.

Guess what, who is running Pakistan today? The exact people who were against its creation.

So, I would not bash Jinnah. What Luffy said is correct. Let Allah be the final judge.


If he wanted a Muslim state, then why did he support the FCR and not allow tribals to vote.

Look at sufis, dance around graves, make money on magic and do shirk and your telling me as a Muslim i can not criticise and just accept they do this?

and if he was such a good muslim then Why he did not impliment Shariat???????? dont blaime others, he never mentioned any single Islamic Law, he only spoke about Secular laws for which you Pakistani Muslims so proudly speak about.

Jinnah was a fraud and an Insult to all Muslims, secondly as a Muslim, are you a shia or sunni, because from my sources, Ismailis are not reconised as being Muslim at all. So you think its good to anger Allah by praising a Non Muslim such as Jinnah, An ismaili who ate pork and drank whisky and happens to be the founder of the worlds most hated and corrupted nation and cruel nation and begger of the west of a nation.

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-18-2010, 11:37 AM
@ the Jinnah thing and his Islam:

http://pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=1023

He was not perfect, the only human being in my opinion that can be so was The Last Prophet Muhammad PBUH, or Jesus, Moses PBUT.

But Jinnah wanted to help the Muslims, that is all I care for.

The world is now made up of people who dont give a damn about God, let alone Muslims who practice with an honest good heart.

In such times we should cherish what we get and build on it.

If someone says he is a Muslim to us, we should cherish this, not make fun of his weaknesses.

To Luffy and Momin: The person you are talking to is an empty shell. Dont waste your'e good time on empty shells (from blind hate). Let him be, he will keep hitting his head on the wall, the wall wont budge, but I cant say the same for............

-----------------------------------

From personal experience, I was just kind and good to the people around me who were atheists, Catholics and others. Islam teaches love for all. That is what I did. There were days where I even heard some of them saying the dirtiest of words for God, Allah, Islam, Muhammad PBUH.

I didnt hate them for it.

In the end, one of them became a Muslim. He said it was because of me. Though this same person said all those bad things.

:)

------------------------------------

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-18-2010, 12:08 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed,

would you be thankful if an Atheist helped your dying wife?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 02:07 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed,

would you be thankful if an Atheist helped your dying wife?


Meenwawmeennoon, what a odd question.

If Jinnah was to save my wife, i would shoot him before he touched her because his hands smell of pork and his breath of whisky.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Even if he was the last hope?

BTW, you have changed my question. I was talking about an Atheist, not Jinnah. Could you kindly answer my initial question in light of the Atheist, not Jinnah.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 02:16 PM
Even if he was the last hope?

BTW, you have changed my question. I was talking about an Atheist, not Jinnah. Could you kindly answer my initial question in light of the Atheist, not Jinnah.

Yes even if he was the last hope.

but why ask me such a question? do you consider a Ismaili Shia as a Muslim?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 02:38 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed, wrora, do you ask every doctor you visit whether he or she is an Atheist or not?

Yes, I do consider Ismaili Shias as Muslim. Why? Because they claim that they are Muslim. That is enough for me. I would consider anyone who claims to be Christian a Christian. Why? Because them claiming to be Christian is enough for me.

Whether or not they are following the real teachings of Islam, or for that matter, Christianity, is a different issue.

I will not reserve the right to strip them from calling themselves a Muslim or a Christian.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 02:46 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed, wrora, do you ask every doctor you visit whether he or she is an Atheist or not?

Yes, I do consider Ismaili Shias as Muslim. Why? Because they claim that they are Muslim.

thats says alot so i dont even want to give an answer.

You state, a Ismaili who doesnt even beleive in Prophet (pbuh) and beleives that there will be another prophet, this shows your knowledge of Islam. You consider people who pray to a man called aga khan. Dont insult Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAz8Bza2ax0

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 02:50 PM
My friend, you are all over the place.

So those who you consider to be Muslim, have they done nothing but good in their moral life as well as for the Muslim ummah?

Khushal Khan Khattak
05-19-2010, 02:59 PM
My friend, you are all over the place.

So those who you consider to be Muslim, have they done nothing but good in their moral life as well as for the Muslim ummah?

Let it go my brother, no matter what you say he has already made up his mind. Just feel sad for him, feel pity for him and pray for him so God will show him his straight path before the end. Amen!

:sad1:

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Let it go my brother, no matter what you say he has already made up his mind. Just feel sad for him, feel pity for him and pray for him so God will show him his straight path before the end. Amen!

:sad1:


dont feel sad for me, i feel sad for you.

That you also consider a Kaffir such as Jinnah as a Muslim? you also consider ismaili Shias as Muslims even though they oppose Prophet Mohammand(pbuh) and consider a man called aga khan as a prophet.

the only place you have been and seen reality is out of your khattak army colony in NWFP. I suggest you vist the tribal areas mr Non Tribal Pukhtun. dont make fun of Islam by accepting Sects and Kaffirs into it.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 03:15 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed,

you cannot attack someone's intellect by simply calling someone a kafir and because of his beliefs and his actions. If Ismailis call themselves Muslim who are you to stop them? They have not done a billionth of what destruction the Wahabis have caused Muslims in the name of Islam.

Leave this name game--it has logical fallacy written all over it. We are discussing Jinnah in the realm of politics. Stick to this.

Did he or did he not do the right thing for the Muslims of India? Stick to this topic.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 03:19 PM
Dear StrategistMaseed,

you cannot attack someone's intellect by simply calling someone a kafir and because of his beliefs and his actions. If Ismailis call themselves Muslim who are you to stop them? They have not done a billionth of what destruction the Wahabis have caused Muslims in the name of Islam.

Leave this name game--it has logical fallacy written all over it. We are discussing Jinnah in the realm of politics. Stick to this.

Did he or did he not do the right thing for the Muslims of India? Stick to this topic.

Where is the Islamic law? why did he impliment FCR onto Pashtuns and beg British to support him?

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 03:22 PM
So are you saying that the state of Pakistan should have never been created? The Muslims should have suffered under a Hindu system, instead? Would that have been better?

Further, where in the world do you see a proper Islamic state?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 06:32 PM
So are you saying that the state of Pakistan should have never been created? The Muslims should have suffered under a Hindu system, instead? Would that have been better?

Further, where in the world do you see a proper Islamic state?

Dont teach me your usual Pakistani studies propaghanda

If it wasnt for world war 2, your Pakistanis and Indian brothers and sisters would still be licking British boots.

Let me tell you something, did the bengalis have to be massacred by the so called Murtad Pakistan? should over 2 million bengalis have to die just because they didnt accept Pakistani ideology and claims of being defender of Hindus?

For a person, who supports Ismailis and other Kaffirs, it really makes me wonder what your true identity is.

did bengali muslims deserve this????

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 06:34 PM
When I make a comment, I speak in relation to Pashtun interests, Firstly India would never want to imperialise Pashtun lands as they know very well, its impossible to rule over them, also India did land reforms, unlike the so called Islamic state of Pakistan, where acres of Land is taken away from poor people and given to the elite and retired amry personel.

I would rather see Pashtuns united as one people, under one flag and in one state, I dont have no relation to these Hindu problems that your pakistani studies teachers teach you.

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 06:36 PM
So, I take that the creation of Pakistan was a horrible idea.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-19-2010, 06:41 PM
So, I take that the creation of Pakistan was a horrible idea.


The idea of Pashtuns being divided over the creation was the bad idea, I personally couldnt give a damme if Pakistan was created to accomodate Indian Punjabs and Muslim Indians from india.

but due to this Pakistan, Pashtuns are divided and turn on eachother

MeemWawMeemNoon
05-19-2010, 06:46 PM
And you are not blaming Afghanistan over this? And you are not blaming your own tribal elders over this?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 10:54 AM
And you are not blaming Afghanistan over this? And you are not blaming your own tribal elders over this?

There are many people to be blaimed and rest assured, if this Pakistan was not made, we would not have had the problems we have today, over a million bengalis would be alive, balochi women would be giving brith instead of being raped, 2 million Swatis wont be homeless and abused in Punjab because of a Double game by ISI, there would be no force fed Urdu classes, Pashtun language would not be dishonoured, Pashtuns would have an identity, tribal areas wont be neglected and used as a base to spread Pakistani interests in Afghanistan, there would have not been any zia ul haqs, Soviets, Americans on our region, there would be peace, unity, development and progression.

Niazi
05-20-2010, 11:02 AM
Pakistan was given to them on plate by British nobody fought for Pakistan it was British brain child to punish Indian for thier revolt against them,the samelarity between Pakistan and isreal is that both were created by British on somebody else's land as they always do except Pakistan killed more muslims then isreal that's a fact ,I think it shouldn't be called pakistan but khairatistan:(

BLS_1919v2.0
05-20-2010, 02:30 PM
Didn't we have this discussion already...damn I posted so many things there, now I have to go find them.

Feroza_Banu
05-20-2010, 02:48 PM
i could care less about his drinking... but i am really upset that he left us with a "nasooor" named pakistan...


khpala kho marr so ama zmuzh kor ye rata taba aw barbaad krra da dagha pakistan jarrawolo sara.

Master Khan
05-20-2010, 05:09 PM
where is Jinnah daughter and family now?..I heard she is christain and lives in India.

Max
05-20-2010, 05:11 PM
lemme tell you something if pashtuns had one person like Jinnah right now he could turn the fate of this entire nation

This is what he did, muslims were more divided under more problems than pashtuns are now..He outwitted every single leader and carved out a homeland for muslims in seven years

You guys might disagree with me on here, but you know that if we had even one person like Jinnah we wouldnt be in this Sh***

Master Khan
05-20-2010, 05:26 PM
Don't you think Jinnah divided us Afghans? Before we are all one Afghan. no we have different Afghans. Afghan by nationality, and Afghan by ethnicity.

Pakistan says "Max, you are an ethnic Afghan" "London boy, you are an Afghan national"
its wasn't jinnah that divided us, it was that idiot Abdur Rahman Khan (Emir of Afghanistan)

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:28 PM
lemme tell you something if pashtuns had one person like Jinnah right now he could turn the fate of this entire nation

This is what he did, muslims were more divided under more problems than pashtuns are now..He outwitted every single leader and carved out a homeland for muslims in seven years

You guys might disagree with me on here, but you know that if we had even one person like Jinnah we wouldnt be in this Sh***

hahaha oh really, so the durrand line and FCR and all these agencies are a blessing to you.

Stop taking too much mushrooms.

So in other words, this dude here Max, wants a Pashtun who eats pork, drinks whisky, has a briitsh servent, and hires a british officer to found his army.

Its best joke ive heard in ages

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:29 PM
its wasn't jinnah that divided us, it was that idiot Abdur Rahman Khan (Emir of Afghanistan)

Let me correct you. It was the British who divided us, because they wanted a buffer, Abdur Rahman didnt represent all Pashtuns nor Afghans, he was a puppet of the British just like Jinnah was, a good example is Bengalis, Were Bengalis once puppets of Jinnah? and what happened to them after wards?

Master Khan
05-20-2010, 05:32 PM
Let me correct you. It was the British who divided us, because they wanted a buffer, Abdur Rahman didnt represent all Pashtuns nor Afghans, he was a puppet of the British just like Jinnah was, a good example is Bengalis, Were Bengalis once puppets of Jinnah? and what happened to them after wards?
End of the day it was Abdur Rahman that sold our land to British india or else we would have been with Afghanistan now.
Jinnah divided us from India (thank God)

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:36 PM
its wasn't jinnah that divided us, it was that idiot Abdur Rahman Khan (Emir of Afghanistan)

In regards to Abdur Rahman Khan

"At the durbar (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Durbar) on July 22, 1880, Abdur Rahman was officially recognized as Amir, granted assistance in arms and money, and promised, in case of unprovoked foreign aggression, such further aid as might be necessary to repel it, provided that he align his foreign policy with the British. The British evacuation of Afghanistan was settled on the terms proposed, and in 1881, the British troops (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/British_Army) also handed over Kandahar to the new Amir."

He is very similar to Jinnah, both were British Puppets. So how can one even suggest that Abdur Rahman Khan represented every single Pashtun Afghans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdur_Rahman_Khan

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:40 PM
End of the day it was Abdur Rahman that sold our land to British india or else we would have been with Afghanistan now.
Jinnah divided us from India (thank God)

Dont be so ignorant buddy, have you got evidence that Abdur Rahman Khan was elected and placed into power by the People of Afghanistan? it was the same british who founded the Pakistan army, founded the ISI and whom Jinnah admired and wish he could be that placed Abdur Rahman Khan into power.

he was given money and weapons, which were used on the sme Afghans whom you claim must have supported him.

Also in regards to Jinnah freeing himself from India, let me refresh your mind, Did Pakistan fight against the British? Who did the British take home with them to fight in the world war 2? it was your fellow Pakistanis.

Master Khan
05-20-2010, 05:40 PM
Jinnah took land away from British and Abdur Rahman gave land to them.
I mean come on wrora, Pashtunistan is alot of land.
I am not a jinnah supporter but he was better then Abdur Rahman

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:41 PM
End of the day it was Abdur Rahman that sold our land to British india or else we would have been with Afghanistan now.
Jinnah divided us from India (thank God)

And Now Pakistan has sold our land to America, so what is the solution? Pashtun Unity and prevent future greedy corrupted leaders or accept our people to live in IDPS camps while the sons of the British raj buy new cars and houses on our blood?

MazloomyarMaseed
05-20-2010, 05:42 PM
Jinnah took land away from British and Abdur Rahman gave land to them.
I mean come on wrora, Pashtunistan is alot of land.

Jinnah didnt take any land away from the British? did Jinnah fight for this Land, it was GIVEN to HIM by the BRITISH! who counted the referendum, who supported Jinnahs Muslim leauge? it was the British, Who founded the Pakistan Army? he was a british, tell me a single war did Jinnah fight to free Muslims from the hands of KAffir christians? not a single one!

Master Khan
05-20-2010, 05:46 PM
Jinnah didnt take any land away from the British? did Jinnah fight for this Land, it was GIVEN to HIM by the BRITISH! who counted the referendum, who supported Jinnahs Muslim leauge? it was the British, Who founded the Pakistan Army? he was a british, tell me a single war did Jinnah fight to free Muslims from the hands of KAffir christians? not a single one!
At the end of the day he created pakistan and a muslim state...sadly after him its all rubbish.
But what Abdur Rahman was really wrong buy Selling us to India.

pir_Rokhan
05-20-2010, 06:15 PM
lemme tell you something if pashtuns had one person like Jinnah right now he could turn the fate of this entire nation

This is what he did, muslims were more divided under more problems than pashtuns are now..He outwitted every single leader and carved out a homeland for muslims in seven years

You guys might disagree with me on here, but you know that if we had even one person like Jinnah we wouldnt be in this Sh***

Max

I don’t know whether you are a genuine Afghan or Pakistani pretending to be one, however I would give you my honest opinion.

This carving out a separate homeland is a misconception about him as well as Iqbal.I don’t want go into history however Jinnah was for a confederation with Muslim autonomous provinces for Muslims to ensure their rights. It was British who divided the Muslims of India hence breaking their political power not Jinnah.
As far as the personality of Jinnah is concerned, I think the positive points of his persona are discussed by Jaswant Singh and there is nothing bad in it as he was for confederation not a separate country. I am more interested in his personality as a leader and now a founder of a country.

You see never has it happened in history as far as I know that a man who revered another culture and did not own his own culture would be able to found a state with a durable, genuine and original nationhood. This fact was realized by Gandhi that is why he used the concept of Cultural Revolution. Even Mao tse Tung used the concept of Cultural Revolution to bring the change. Jinnah might have realized it and he tried to put an effort too but i think it was too late and then his life dint allow him.

The contradiction in his character was and is visible till now in Pakistan. It was claimed to be in the name of Islam and carved from Indian and Afghan terrtories.Later Jinnah said that Pakistan would be a secular country with religion not interfering into the affairs of state however as the very nomenclature was religious and the ,movement was based in religion though by secular people so it was very difficult practically to tell the people and his own people that he just used the name of religion as a slogan and was not serious about making it a theocratic state as it turned out to be.

Secondly, any leadership in history unless it is backed by an ideological party which has a certain ideology for statecraft can never survive the test of time and Jinnah’s was also a one man show practically hence we see that Muslim league turned out to be a fake and non principled party with literally no representation from the masses, middle class or from the intelligentsia. Since 1947 Muslim league has been the most volatile party mostly consisting of the feudal class of Punjab who are more interested in their vested interests and exploiting the resources of other nations and provinces than the ideological foundations, if any, of Pakistan.

It is due to these reasons that in my opinion neither can Pakistanis own Jinnah as he was neither a genuine Sindhi, nor a genuine religious person. He was from elite Indian class educated abroad and professionally good lawyer who had ability to plead a case successfully which he did, however it takes a bit more to be a leader than to be a successful lawyer.

Max
05-20-2010, 06:23 PM
Thats one thing i find very weird about this website, if i agree with someone im cool..if i argue against something you guys believe the first thing i hear is are you punjabi ? are you this that ?

Why the hell should i have to explain to you guys who i am ?

Argue about the argument, dont bring my identity to this..I know who i am and am darn proud of it, mind your own business

And as for Jinnah, i dont care who he was .. i look at what he did and no sane person in the world can deny that he was one of the greatest minds of this subcontinent, had we pashtuns a political leader like him we would never have been in this condition

I dont know if he ate pork or not, to me its irrelevant to me whats relevant is his pollitical approach, to me what matters is what he did..and God knows that Afghanistan needed a leader like that.

gandhis and what not they're teachings look good on paper, this is a cold ruthless world we need someone who can be just as calculating, just as smart, just as diverse to guide us out of this

pir_Rokhan
05-20-2010, 06:59 PM
Thats one thing i find very weird about this website, if i agree with someone im cool..if i argue against something you guys believe the first thing i hear is are you punjabi ? are you this that ?

Why the hell should i have to explain to you guys who i am ?

Argue about the argument, dont bring my identity to this..I know who i am and am darn proud of it, mind your own business

And as for Jinnah, i dont care who he was .. i look at what he did and no sane person in the world can deny that he was one of the greatest minds of this subcontinent, had we pashtuns a political leader like him we would never have been in this condition

I dont know if he ate pork or not, to me its irrelevant to me whats relevant is his pollitical approach, to me what matters is what he did..and God knows that Afghanistan needed a leader like that.

gandhis and what not they're teachings look good on paper, this is a cold ruthless world we need someone who can be just as calculating, just as smart, just as diverse to guide us out of this

I talked about the argument my friend.The intial opinion was just my skeptic gutt feeling. And Yes I do not mind if you are Credere or Talal now calling yourself Max or whatever. I dont know why you have to do all this. We respect your opinion and you have all the right to advocate your opinion as we do..

Now I refused to accept your claim and gave you argument you just restated your claim again in your sensatised emotional status without bothering to pay a serious heed to my argument.

Could you please give it a read with a calm head.

In another post I would elaborate what type of leader Afghans need and why.With all due repects to MAJ his experiment has even failed in Pakisatn which is a nascent country with a hardly 40 years of history [ofcourse this is not the Pakistna it used to be in 1947] hence there is no question of wishign the same failure for Afghanistan despite a lot of other misfortunes which has already fallen on this country.

The laws of history ,sciology and cultural engineeing do not allow us to wish for a leader like MAJ for Afghanistan whatever reverence Pakistanis might have for him rightly or wrongly.

Bengal_Tiger
05-20-2010, 07:02 PM
Jinnah was a British agent who was part of the elite Indian "Muslim" elite which included his fellow Hindustani, Liquat Ali Khan.

Central Indian landlords like Liquat Ali Khan were used to power and privilege and wanted to maintain that. However Congress was a socialist party and did not believe in feudalism and these ideas spread to the Hindu peasants of central India. So the "Muslim" landlords of central India supported the idea of Pakistan. The new state would be dominated by Urdu-speakers from India, the capital would be Karachi which would be dominated by migrants from India, it was to be an Indian-run state in the same way Ashkenazi (European Jews) are the ruling elite in India.

Jinnah's grandfather was a Hindu and he himself was a whiskey drinker and pork eater, used by the British to break up India in the same way the British created permanent conflict in the middle east with the Israel-Palestine problem.

Ismailis are not Muslims for a variety of reasons as they reject 5 times prayer, reject fasting in Ramadan and Hajj etc.

Anyway the racist ideology of Jinnah and others has proven to be ideologically incoherent and Bengalis smashed the US-supported Punjabi/Hindustani army in 1971 and it seems Sindhis, Balochis and Pashtuns will be following the way of their Muslim brothers in Bengal.

There are a lot of things I could write about Jinnah, but in essence he was a very wicked, evil and manipulative man who caused huge bloodshed and death.

However Allah is the best of judges.

Max
05-20-2010, 07:14 PM
I talked about the argument my friend.The intial opinion was just my skeptic gutt feeling. And Yes I do not mind if you are Credere or Talal now calling yourself Max or whatever. I dont know why you have to do all this. We respect your opinion and you have all the right to advocate your opinion as we do..

Now I refused to accept your claim and gave you argument you just restated your claim again in your sensatised emotional status without bothering to pay a serious heed to my argument.

Could you please give it a read with a calm head.

In another post I would elaborate what type of leader Afghans need and why.With all due repects to MAJ his experiment has even failed in Pakisatn which is a nascent country with a hardly 40 years of history [ofcourse this is not the Pakistna it used to be in 1947] hence there is no question of wishign the same failure for Afghanistan despite a lot of other misfortunes which has already fallen on this country.

The laws of history ,sciology and cultural engineeing do not allow us to wish for a leader like MAJ for Afghanistan whatever reverence Pakistanis might have for him rightly or wrongly.

wth is creadere and whose Talal ? dude i got respect for you cuz you sometimes post good stuff..this kinda stuff is really low.. i can call you a talib, ofcourse i doubt you would mind that

Im one of those nutjob pashtuns who try to find the fault in themselves because they know that no matter what other do to us unless we ourselves are strong we wont get anywhere

And one more thing, i dont "like" Jinnah, but my liking someone or not liking someone has nothing to do with their qualities and achievements. Bacha Khan remained silent, he took the peaceful way out what did he achieve for pashtuns ? he was a great man, one of the few great men we've had but where did his kind heartedness lead us ?

I try to look at the ugly realities of this world, you guys think we live in a just world...where rights are given, NO rights arent given..there is no such thing as brotherhood. If your weak they will keep coming, if it wasnt Pakisan it would have been Iran, if it wasnt Iran it would have been russians, if not russians chineese..We have Bullsh**ted our way through half a century without building any systems, any form of governance, and that does make me mad..We needed someone with some political sight someone who could bring together as a nation.

and when i say all this i am a non-pashtun ? im this im that ? this is how much tolerance we got

Espresso
05-21-2010, 01:25 AM
i think jinnah's two nation theory did more harm to muslims then anybody else lets look it this way to day muslims are divided in 3 differrent countries . indian muslims have their problems, bangladeshis have their problems partition has only increased those problems, kashmiris are suffering as a result of it, baluchis have yet not accepted pakistan and has been facing numerous army operation's from the 50's to date, the fate of pakhtunkhwa are still a question between afghanisthan and pakistan (durrand line) the unresolved status after the 99 years lease gets expired is still pending. Fata,swat are in a literal mess , the only good i see is for sindh and punjab rural for landlords, urban karachi/lahore for businessmen,rich expacts, islamabad for army genarals other then that i have failed to find any positive outcome that might have came out of the 1947 partition.

Dreamer
07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
hahaha the aga khan is God to them... I mean is it any wonder jinnahs daughter did the dirty and ran off with a christian (former zoroastrian) when the aga khans daughter married a non ishamelie

Dreamer
07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
lol so ismailis worship agha khan?

pretty much yep

khyaal
07-21-2010, 10:13 AM
wth is creadere and whose Talal ? dude i got respect for you cuz you sometimes post good stuff..this kinda stuff is really low.. i can call you a talib, ofcourse i doubt you would mind that



btw, how did you come to know the word Talib which is known only to native Pashtuns? You will never find this word in Western media, even Punjabi media use the word Taliban for the singular case.

Son of Mountains
07-21-2010, 10:43 AM
I hate all of you liars...............

Toramana
07-21-2010, 02:29 PM
Here is a US secret report about Liaquat Ali Khan, another of Pakistan's founding fathers. He drank, ate port, and even danced to the beats of drum.

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/liaquat15june1948.htm (http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/liaquat15june1948.htm)

Zhagh
07-21-2010, 03:24 PM
but however ANP are nothing but a bunch of Nim pashtin/ Half Pukhtuns. Most of them are little murtads who are Pakistani than Pashtun.
Please Stick to the topic and Stop showing your frustration towards the ANP.I understand your problem and i personally know you since 2 years .
I will request the moderators and admins to not allow any one to use this new forum against any Pashtun Nationalist Party...thanx

Espresso
07-22-2010, 06:34 AM
Quoted for truth.

Jinnah had love for his fellow Muslims. He wanted to give their aptitudes an equal opportunity in a country for Muslims.

.


But Jinnah wanted to help the Muslims, that is all I care for.

In such times we should cherish what we get and build on it.



Action speaks louder then words jinnah's religiously manipulative political skills were as of today have proven to be counterproductive to the concern & well being of muslims in the Indian-Subcontinent tell me how did the creating of a country based on (Pakistaniyat) its a strong kind of Nationalism under the pretext of Islam helped muslims in anyway ? the bitter truth of the matter is that now you have muslims divided in three separate zone's India,Pakistan,Bangladesh instead of a single zone e.g undivided india their population divided lessening their strength and putting them through the misery that they are sufferring now as a result of the partition of India making it contrary as to what some pakistanis say that pakistan was created because muslims were in frear of a Hindu dominations i tend to disagree a more accurate analysis is that Muslims are weaker NOW then before, after the glorious creation of "Pakistan"
i say this because i am a muslim originally from the indian subcontinent region.

erlangner
07-22-2010, 07:34 AM
Jinnah himself and his struggle is so much controversial. It is quoted and interpreted completely different on 180 degrees in Pakistan and the remaining world. Some scholars in Pakistan like Dr safdar mehmood and dr israr tried their best to prove he was very much religious person, however others are there who are proving him a secular politician. Both claim to be Jinnah lovers.
However there are other scholars who deny his struggle as the real struggle in politics. They claim he was a puppet in Britains hands.
That is why he was given such a gesture thta he is a great leader equalling Gandhi, however he did not have the capability. It was the reason why he was unable to dismiss the firts army chief although he refused to obey his orders.

As far as his private life is concerned, like drinking, eating pig, marrying parsi girl etc are his private things, and we are not answerable for his actions.

But above all what he was, he have had qualities therefore he was choosen by Britains as he has the abilities to bring their plans into actions.

Espresso
07-22-2010, 10:24 AM
Jinnah himself and his struggle is so much controversial. It is quoted and interpreted completely different on 180 degrees in Pakistan and the remaining world. Some scholars in Pakistan like Dr safdar mehmood and dr israr tried their best to prove he was very much religious person, however others are there who are proving him a secular politician. Both claim to be Jinnah lovers.
However there are other scholars who deny his struggle as the real struggle in politics. They claim he was a puppet in Britains hands.
That is why he was given such a gesture thta he is a great leader equalling Gandhi, however he did not have the capability. It was the reason why he was unable to dismiss the firts army chief although he refused to obey his orders.

As far as his private life is concerned, like drinking, eating pig, marrying parsi girl etc are his private things, and we are not answerable for his actions.

But above all what he was, he have had qualities therefore he was choosen by Britains as he has the abilities to bring their plans into actions.

well said spot on ! :thumbsup:

not only the indian muslims and bangladeshis his pakistani nationalism under the pretext of religion has even put Afghans/khyber pakhtoonkhwa/baluchistani and kashmiris under the dirty wrath of the most malicious entity for the entire muslim world called the Pakistan Army and I.S.I :banghead:

erlangner
07-22-2010, 02:05 PM
One thing very much clear about Jinnah, that he did one very much best thing to pashtoons donating 1/3rd of his property to Islamia college peshawar. The worse thing he did to pashtun was to crash Khudai Khitmatgar, who were propagating peace harmony in Pashtun society. It was due to him that khudai khitmatgar movements schools, offices and office bearers were jailed and tortured. What he did with balochis is not our issues. The worse thing which he did is then announcement of urdu as the national language under the influence of Liaqat Ali Khan. Due to this mistake Bagla desh went away, although role of Begalis was much in creation fo pakistan than the present day Pakistan geography. However, our issue is to discuss his role which affected Pashtuns.
It is ok, he drank, but it did not harm pashtuns. Sangar is saying he did not know how to pray, but brother sangar, if his not praying did any thing wrong to us. nothing.

His crash and action against Khudai Khitmatgar destroyed the pashtun politics and social workers movement. This loss is much than anything else.