View Full Version : Opportunism ---Muslim Brotherhood Style


Toramana
04-02-2011, 02:43 PM
Zia ul Haq met JI Chief Mian Tufail Mohammad for 90 minutes the night before Bhutto was hanged. The following day, the JI supporters took to the streets to celebrate Bhutto’s death. JI saved tons of US dollars but also tried to save US enemy No.1 Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the mastermind of 9/11, who was arrested from the residence of a JI leader in Rawalpindi.

Home and madressah education, knowledge of Arabic, vast study of earlier texts on Islam and almost no exposure to modern education, yet ability to write colorful language, playing with high sounding words and experience in journalism was his qualification. A body of obscurantist literature, superficial in character, with almost no relevance to the demands of a modern and progressive lifestyle was his contribution. A prolific journalist rather than a scholar, he wrote with great speed to feed his eager readers. He was well-versed in employing the power of the written word, the ability which, on the one hand has positively contributed towards bringing about numerous cultural and intellectual revolutions in human history, and many a times it has played havoc with the growth of human consciousness. When the disconnect between fact (read ground reality) and fiction (read ideology) becomes apparent, either the fiction dies down, or the “sanctified” fiction is cleverly exploited in one’s own interest. The philosophy and writings of Abul Ala Maududi, his followers and their conduct in real life is a classic case of ideology in the service of vested interests.

By 1938 he was against the formation of political parties, but in 1941 he had a change of heart and Maududi founded Jamaat-e-Islami (JI), with the prime objective of setting up of a kingdom of Allah in total rejection of secularism, democracy and nation-state where private and public sphere of man’s life would be governed by the principles of Islam. He considered them sinful and called for the total boycott of secular structures like the parliament, army, courts, educational institutions and government jobs. However his party later contested elections for the parliament, collaborated with the army, filed petitions in courts and penetrated into educational institutions and the government, setting their earlier ideology aside. Similar to Muslim Brotherhood, the JI focused on middle class professionals and state employees rather than traditional mullahs.
Although Maududi opposed Jinnah and a separate state for Muslims, however, he moved to Pakistan with some of his followers. Initially he advocated the religious-cum-spiritual revival of Muslims who would not aspire for power and lead by example. But as he had witnessed the strength, religion wields in grabbing political power through mass mobilization, as experienced in the creation of Pakistan, he changed his political philosophy. His new slogan was “The Country is God’s; rule must be by God’s law; the government should be that of God’s pious men.” The “defense of Islam” in an “Islamic” state was thus the bedrock of JI in the years to follow. Soon after the Partition, the JI began to pressurize the government to frame an Islamic constitution. The JI labeled leftists, secularists and ethnic nationalists as anti-Islam and non-believers. In 1953, the JI incited and carried out attacks against Ahmadis. The murder, looting and arson resulted in the deaths of 200 Ahmadis. The story was repeated in 1974 which culminated in declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslims. Through his influence over Ch. Mohammad Ali, the then PM, Maududi was able to include the Objectives Resolution as the preamble to 1956 Constitution and the first Muslim country to be named “The Islamic Republic of Pakistan.”

In the beginning, Maududi was critical of Pakistan’s alliance with the US but then focused on combating communism. The JI received money from Saudi Arabia and Saudi-sponsored Rabita al-Alam al Islami for global outreach, particularly areas under communist influence. A Dar-ul-Fikr was set up in Mansoora, the JI headquarters at Lahore in the late 1960’s to publish accounts of communist oppression of Muslims. Urdu Digest, a publication by JI affiliates, was focusing on liberation of co-religionists under communist control. Interestingly, in February 2009 a seven member delegation of JI led by Qazi Hussain Ahmed visited China. At a meeting with Vice-Chairperson of National People’s Congress Tali Waldi, Qazi said that the Sino-Pak friendship was immortal and would continue to deepen with the passage of time. Ayub Khan, who had initially deleted “Islamic” from Pakistan’s official name, added it later under pressure from the mullahs. Since PPP was socialistic while Awami League was a secular party the JI, fearing popularity of the two major political parties, was spearheading a campaign by 1969, for protection of Islamic ideology declaring that Pakistan was under threat from atheists, socialists and secularists. In the same year JI and Intelligence Bureau sponsored ulema, signed a joint fatwa declaring socialism and secularism as Kufr. In 1970 JI-sympathizer General Sher Ali Khan, Federal Minister for Information & Broadcasting and National Affairs during 1969-71 purged state and privately owned media of leftists and secularists. These were then replaced by JI cadres. In the 1970 general elections, the JI won just four seats out of a total of 300.

General Yahya’s military regime gave the JI a semi-official role in the former East Pakistan to act as the intelligence network for Pak Army, while it was part of the “military sponsored” six party alliance of Islamist parties in East Pakistan called United Coalition Party.

In May 1971 the JI and Islami Jamiat-e-Talaba (IJT), its student wing, were part of a 50,000 strong, “army engineered” razakar (volunteer) force comprising Al-Shams and Al-Bader which acted as army’s death squads. In addition to killing of tens of thousands of nationalist Bengalis, Al-Badar reportedly killed 10 professors of Dacca University, five leading journalists, two litterateurs and 26 doctors in Dacca alone.

When Bhutto assumed power on December 20th 1971, the JI burned his effigies in Lahore and declared the day as “black day.” When PTV showed surrender ceremony in Dacca, the JI led public protests, describing it as an attempt to humiliate the army. In 1973 the Amir of JI appealed to the army to over throw Bhutto’s government due to its inherent moral corruption. Despite being Islamist and declaring secularists as kafirs (infidels), the JI joined hands with Bhutto’s secular opponents to achieve the goal of political power. In the early seventies, the JI launched a campaign called “Bagladesh Namanzoor”to destabilize Bhutto and to absolve the army of blame for the loss of country’s Eastern Wing,

In 1973, Burhanuddin Rabbani, a Maududi inspired Afghan cleric, fled to Pakistan, and was hosted by the JI. Thus began a partnership between the JI, the ISI and the Rabbani group.

When Zia overthrew Bhutto in 1977, the JI distributed sweets in streets of all major cities.

Maududi later supported Zia’s regime by endorsing his Islamization initiative. Zia ul Haq met JI Chief Mian Tufail Mohammad for 90 minutes the night before Bhutto was hanged. The following day, the JI supporters took to the streets to celebrate Bhutto’s death. Although the JI’s constitution prohibits coming into power using underground means, yet the JI was part of Zia’s cabinet holding the ministries of Information and Broadcasting, Production, Water and Power and National Resources. Professor Khursheed Ahmed, a JI ideologue, headed the Planning Commission to draw up plans for Islamizing the economy. The JI also supported Zia-ul-Haq’s referendum held in 1984.

Qazi Hussian Ahmad while supporting Zia’s Hadood Laws argued that woman were emotional and irritable, with inferior faculties of reason and memory hence their testimony in a court of law should be discounted.

Women can be bracketed with the blind, handicapped, lunatics and children. However , later, Qazi got his own daughter Samia Raheel Qazi elected to the parliament.

The JI later became the pillar of Zia regime and his “Islamic” state. In 1979 when Maududi died Zia attend his funeral.
In 1988 the ISI assembled a coalition called IJI of Islamist parties to serve as the army’s proxy in a controlled political system. The JI was the frontrunner in the ISI-sponsored IJI. The JI and its weekly Takbeer, during the 1988 election campaign ran photos of Benazir and her mother dancing with President Ford. These were even airdropped over the city of Lahore using aircraft from Lahore Aero Club. This was with the full collaboration of the ISI. Qazi Hussain Ahmed, the JI Chief, after her victory declared her a decadent western woman and a risk to national security.

In 1989, when the ISI forged an interim Afghan government in Peshawar, the JI recognized it and held rallies in its support, although it did not have a single Afghan city under its control. When in 1998 Mast Gul a militant Kashmiri militant came to Rawalpindi, a rally was jointly organized by JI & ISI which was shown on PTV, where JI openly condemned the Bhutto government and called for Jihad against India.

In the early 1990’s JI & ISI-backed Hizbul Mujahideen began “Jihad” against JKLF, liquidating them in Indian Administered Kashmir. By the mid-90’s, the JI was openly recruiting ‘volunteers’ for the ‘Kashmir Jihad’.
In 1996, the JI began a campaign demanding Benazir Bhutto’s ouster. After a series of unexplained bomb blasts, sectarian killings, and mysterious murder of Murtaza Bhutto, Benazir’s government was dismissed on November 5th 1996.

The JI also welcomed Pervez Musharraf when he toppled a democratic government, however, when he was not found much accommodative, the JI turned against him. When in 1999, Vajpayee came to Lahore, the JI threatened to block Vajpayee’s bus route and held street demonstrations all over Lahore. Nawaz Sharif planned to arrest Qazi Hussain Ahmed ahead of the agitation yet he could not, as Qazi was staying at the home of an official of the military intelligence.

Although the JI and IJT enjoy little popular support yet a highly structured system of committed cadres is JI’s mainstay. Continued indoctrination and deep penetration among various sections of the society characterize its organizational strength. From trade unions to teachers’ associations to women wings to charities, the JI is active. The JI and IJT workers would threaten and blackmail anybody from university administration to Railway Board, to newspaper owners and even the governments of the day.There are countless incidents where university teachers have been thrashed, students terrorized, offices of newspapers ransacked and mass protests organized, to achieve certain objectives. They act unscrupulously when it comes to vested interests. Typically wearing a beard and a shalwar kamiz, appearing decent, advocating good conduct and preaching ethics, but in real life, they would write obnoxious anonymous letters to the parents of a liberal female student ,threaten and pillage the office of a state functionary for taking disciplinary action against an employee belonging to the JI, bring people on the streets to protest against initiation of music classes in the university, forcibly occupy hostel rooms and all this in the name of Islam, yet would accept dollars, riyals and rupees in bulk from the USA, Saudi Arabia and the deep state respectively, again, in the name of Islam. They saved tons of US dollars but also tried to save US enemy No.1 Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the mastermind of 9/11, who was arrested from the residence of a JI leader in Rawalpindi. They would oppose military dictators, feudal lords, seculars and communists if they do not serve their interests, yet would support all of them if they do. They have the license to label something Islamic or un- Islamic and see which label carries greater opportunity to exploit. The expression “Islamic opportunism” aptly describes the conduct of this entity which has significantly contributed to our present day plunge into a bottomless ocean of retrogression and bigotry. Maududi is long gone but his legacy continues to haunt all those who aspire for a liberal and progressive Pakistan.

http://www.viewpointonline.net/opportunism-jamaat-style.html#comments (http://www.viewpointonline.net/opportunism-jamaat-style.html#comments)

ScimitarXEdge
04-02-2011, 03:31 PM
why does the original paper say Jamat style instead of Muslim Brotherhood style? What would your reply be when the fact the Jamat i Islami was never actually apart of the Muslim Brotherhood, despite their attempts to correspond with them?

you only discredit your own motives by changing titles and trying to slant matters with your spin doctor tactics.

Alchemist
04-02-2011, 03:45 PM
^ We always catch this man being deceptive and sly...and he calls it "subtlety".

ScimitarXEdge
04-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Which makes the entire Thread Ironic; because it demonstrates Secularist, Anti Islam, Anti Muslim and Anti Pashtun opportunism at it's finest.

Toramana
04-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Jumaath-i-Islami is the South Asian organ of Muslim brotherhood with ideology heavily influence by Hasnul Bina thoughts. And it considers itself as such. In fact, it has books of Hasnul Bina, Sayed Qutab, Mohammad Qutab, etc. as part of its curriculum. Muslim brotherhood and its vaious shades are the most abhorrent of all the Islamist movements with the aim to superimpose Arab cultural supremacy on other nations in the name of Islam.

As Maulana Maududi was Urdu-speaking from UP, he and his followers use Islam in the service of Urdu sub-Islamic culture...

Toramana
04-02-2011, 05:00 PM
^ We always catch this man being deceptive and sly...and he calls it "subtlety".

Brother Alchemist it is time for you to disassociate from SXE. You are a spiritual man interested in the spiritual aspect of Islam whereas SXE has a political agenda. Look how dishonestly he twists established truth (even maths) to advance his political ideology...(in the end Arab supremacy)...

emkhan
04-02-2011, 05:31 PM
Toramana will never write or post against the secularists. He just love to speak against the religious parties.
I think he has some psycho problem. He needs a doctor

graveyardofempires
04-02-2011, 05:48 PM
Toramana you got a lost cause.
muslim brotherhood is no matter how much you try to demonize them a good organization.They provide public services to people of their communities.

btw what the hell is an islamist?
whats next you are going to talk about islamofascists?

emkhan
04-02-2011, 05:50 PM
This is a mental case. Needs a doctor lol

Catya Sher
04-02-2011, 05:58 PM
I think Emkhan hit what many of us hadn't quite grasped about
the originator of this thread.
It's beyond "obtuse".
The problem is a psychological one, for I was just reading a text on
a particular disorder yesterday, having to do with "obsessions"
I thought a friend was suffering from this and wanted to figure out whether it was the correct informal diagnosis.

Whether it's a casual every day obsession with attacking Islam and anything to do with Muslim ways or beliefs and political values,
or a clinical illness, Toramana suffers from
SomeThing Abnormal.

Glad this is being highlighted too, alongside the logical arguments advanced by the other guys.

I didn't read the article yet but must say even the words in green
are not right.
KSM as they call him was taken in the early morning hours from a house
in Defence, an upscale housing area where military officers live, in Karachi.

While there may be conflicting accounts, it's almost sure it was not a JI
house in pindi.

emkhan
04-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Catya Sher thank you for getting my point. Actually the problem with some people is that they bark at only one side of the story.
They ignore all others that they love ... One should be realistic and truthful
Only barking at religious forces will not work

Toramana
04-02-2011, 08:26 PM
The Al-Badr was the paramilitary wing of the Jamaat-e-Islami (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Jamaat-e-Islami) in Bangladesh (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bangladesh) (then East Pakistan (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/East_Pakistan)) that collaborated with the Pakistan Army (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Pakistan_Army) against the Bengali nationalist movement in the Bangladesh Liberation War (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War). The present chief of the Jamaat, Maulana (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Maulana) Motiur Rahman Nizami (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Motiur_Rahman_Nizami) headed the Al-Badr organisation as the all-Pakistan Commander in Chief during the war. The group was banned by the independent government of Bangladesh, but most of its members had fled the country during and after the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971).

Al-Badr (East Pakistan)

The Al-Shams was a paramilitary wing of several Islamist (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Islamist) parties in Bangladesh (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bangladesh) (then East Pakistan (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/East_Pakistan)), that with the Pakistan Army (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Pakistan_Army) and the Al-Badr (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Al-Badar_(1971)), is held responsible for conducting a mass killing campaign against Bengali nationalists, civilians, religious and ethnic minorities in the Bangladesh Liberation War (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War). The group was banned by the independent government of Bangladesh, but most of its members had fled the country during and after the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971), which led to Bangladesh's independence.
Very little is known about the structure and composition of the group. Newspaper coverage from that period indicate that it was an organ of the razakar (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Razakar) para-military force. Jamaat-e-Islami (http://www.pashtunforums.com/wiki/Jamaat-e-Islami) was the largest islamic party in Pakistan at that time. It seems that other Islamic factions, including Nezam-e-Islami and Muslim League, established the Al-Shams (meaning "the Sun"), as a response to Jamaat-e-Islami's strong influence on the military junta. Jamaat's paramilitay, Al-Badr, was a close ally of the occupation army, and Al-Shams wanted to compete for that status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shams_(Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shams_(Bangladesh))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Badr_(East_Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Badr_(East_Pakistan))

Toramana
04-02-2011, 09:22 PM
In any case, by the end of 1954 thousands of Brotherhood members were imprisoned, including almost all of its leaders, and six were executed. It was this break that paved the way for a new relationship between the Muslim Brotherhood and the intelligence services of Britain and America because all of them were united in their hatred of Nasser. Unfortunately for the West the Brotherhood remained largely ineffective within Egypt throughout Nasser's reign, even though they were involved in several more attempts on his life. During this time many fleeing members were welcomed in London, where they set up a presence that remains to this day, and a number of them also relocated in Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

.
.
.

The father of Pakistan's Islamic movement is considered to be Abul Ala Maududi. Born in 1903 he first achieved influence in 1937 when he became the director of the Islamic Institute of Research in Lahore. When Pakistan was made a nation in 1948 he objected to the secular nature of the British-sponsored government and for this he served time in jail in 1948 and again in 1952. Maududi's lasting achievement, along with his eighty published books and brochures, is his organization Jamaat-e Islami (http://www.jamaat.org/), or Islamic Society. Maududi and his group maintained close links with the Muslim Brotherhood and Dietl writes that, "Both organizations still consider themselves branches of the same movement. At times the Muslim Brotherhood even recognized Maududi as the legal successor to its ideologists al-Banna and Sayed Qutb."

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/MB.htm (http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/MB.htm)

Toramana
04-02-2011, 09:34 PM
In Pakistan the Muslim Brotherhood in the form of the Jamaat-e Islami supported the overthrow of Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto by General Zia ul-Haq. Bhutto was hated by the British globalists for withdrawing Pakistan from the British Commonwealth, for implementing nationalistic policies, for leaning towards the Soviets and for seeking to develop nuclear energy. When General Zia announced a death sentence on the imprisoned Bhutto his sentence was officially protested by the heads of state from fifty-four countries. Zia went ahead and executed Bhutto in 1979 only after receiving assurances from the head of the Jamaat-e Islami that the execution would not lead to internal unrest. In the years that followed the Jamaat-e Islami became Zia's most important backer and the nation was forced into a brutal process of Islamization.

In Afghanistan the CIA, prodded on by British Intelligence, began to fund the Islamic opponents of the pro-Soviet regime even prior to the Soviet invasion. President Carter's National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brezinski advocated the subversion in order to provoke the Soviet invasion that occurred on December 24, 1979.

General Zia and the Jamaat-e Islami in Pakistan were two crucial elements that made the mujahedin revolt in Afghanistan successful. Their takeover of Pakistan was a necessary part of the plan to pull the Soviets into the Afghan conflict. As related in Part One, an Afghan warlord affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood by the name of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar emerged as the primary recipient of American military aid, despite his well known anti-Western views and his radical view of Islam.

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/MB.htm (http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/MB.htm)

Alchemist
04-03-2011, 12:10 AM
lol

ur kidding me?

ur quoting from redmoonrising.com?

Peter goodgamne is the definition of a conspiracy theorist.

Maybe you should check out some of his other works too...genius.

Did you know that this guy thinks that the Anti Christ will come from the Muslim nation? That the Magog is actually muslims allied to them? Some serious nonsense ... do you know what red moon rising refers to? You are just copy pasting that parts that work for your delusions. Maybe you should read the other chapters too...and then ask your self why it is you find agreement with a delusional person?

You are a real piece of work, toromana.

emkhan
04-03-2011, 02:41 AM
Al chemist you are right.
Actually these people are too much inspired with the western media and such propaganda machines. They accept anything coming out of their dirty minds.
They dont have their own vision and thoughts. just love to follow the strangers

ScimitarXEdge
04-03-2011, 07:01 PM
Even at that, even if what Redmoonrising an UNACADEMIC website with unVERIFIED materials; "supporting" something and being "apart" of something are two different things. Toramana is losing in both ends of the propaganda game he peddles.

ScimitarXEdge
04-03-2011, 07:03 PM
Jumaath-i-Islami is the South Asian organ of Muslim brotherhood with ideology heavily influence by Hasnul Bina thoughts. And it considers itself as such. In fact, it has books of Hasnul Bina, Sayed Qutab, Mohammad Qutab, etc. as part of its curriculum. Muslim brotherhood and its vaious shades are the most abhorrent of all the Islamist movements with the aim to superimpose Arab cultural supremacy on other nations in the name of Islam.

As Maulana Maududi was Urdu-speaking from UP, he and his followers use Islam in the service of Urdu sub-Islamic culture...


Being "influenced" by something and being representative, directed, organized or governed by something is a different deal. Just because someone latches on to a popular slogan, doesn't mean they represent it.

For example

You are influenced by Pashtun Nationalism; but you work for Imperialism. Does that mean being Pashtun is flawed because you're a traitor and work for British Imperialist and American imperialist interests? Of course not Being Pashtun is a beautiful thing, deceitful and corrupt individuals who try and manipulate Pashtun identity to further British and American superimpose their hegemony is not.

And no, the Muslim Brotherhood are not trying to super impose Arab or Pashtun or Persian anything on anyone. Even in the sourceo which you manipulatively hide it said the Muslim Brotherhood were fighting Arab Nationalists because they perceived them as compromising Islamic Values. That's YOUR OWN SOURCES speaking.

Using the Arab or Ethnic scapegoat constantly makes it more apparent you work for the British and American Imperialists. Everyone knows thats a British Imperialist created diversion tactic.

Catya Sher
04-03-2011, 07:15 PM
Thanks, Emkhan, it was a very accurate assessment of "El Toro".

Alchemist is really right to highlight the crazy nature of that source.
I wouldn't bother looking at the site myself, so it's good to hear what type of writer the guy is.

There actually are millions if not hundreds of thousands of "Christians" who believe that way. It's scary : they are completely persuaded that Islam came from the devil, the AntiChrist may be either a Muslim or a Jew from some certain tribe [complete nonsense to me but they take it SO seriously, they have the supposed tribe pinpointed and are on the outlook for this expected figure which exercises the most incredible grip on the imagination of these people] and so much else.

But El Toro does not believe in Islam anyway, at least not any mainstream version, maybe some smaller sect if any at all -
so he could care less how outrageous the redmoonrising author's site is.

Emkhan is right too that these people here on PF too often pick up any old trash off the internet without using the slightest good judgment as to what makes sense and what doesn't.

ScimitarXEdge
04-03-2011, 07:19 PM
See look Toramana, you even made thread about this in which your OWN source which you Cherry Picked through actually says the opposite of what you were saying now, you deliberately left out the link so no one would check and read.

look for yourself

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/arab-nationalism-disguised-pan-islam-grave-threat-many-nations-sovereignty-15409/index2.html (http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/arab-nationalism-disguised-pan-islam-grave-threat-many-nations-sovereignty-15409/index2.html)


This is from the source you quoted from.

http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm (http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm)
.is hard to perceive Arab nationalism as separate from its Islamic heritage. However, some developments at the turn and the end of the 20th century showed the two as if they were in conflict. As a reaction to the Turkish nationalist movement, Arab intellectuals started to form Arab nationalist organizations that aimed at the independence of the Arab homeland (Appendix IV.B). Their major fear was falling under the rule of the victorious European powers. Their fear became reality when the European powers succeeded in dividing the Arab homeland into several separated states. Arab nationalists then realized that the struggle for true Arab independence cannot be separated from the struggle for unification.[44] (http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm#_edn44)
....

However, many Islamic writers criticized Arab nationalism as it separated Muslim Arabs from other Muslims. Among these were Abu Al-Ala Al-Mawdudi, Seyid Qutb, Abu Al-Hassan Al-Nadawi, and Sa'id Hawa.[47] (http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm#_edn47)

Because of the conflict between the Nasser government and the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and the 1960s, the distance increased between Arab nationalists and Islamists.


......
However, whenever the contradiction between unionists and sovereigntists intensified, like in the 1960s after the Syrian secession and during the Yemeni War, Arab nationalists were falsely accused of opposing Islam. One support for that accusation was the adoption of an Arab form of socialism.


And even in that source the Arab Nationalists that were being referred to weren't being described as after some cultural Hegemony on non-Arabs but rather liberators against British and French Colonialism. I don't see what's wrong with that?

Also you're quite a hypocrite, you want to impose Pashtun culture on non-Pashtuns; Superimposing Pashtun supremacy on others; it seems here the reason you accuse others of working for Ethnic Domination interests is because you yourself are Using Ethnic Domination to serve Imperialism.

BarakzaiAbdali
04-03-2011, 09:03 PM
See look Toramana, you even made thread about this in which your OWN source which you Cherry Picked through actually says the opposite of what you were saying now, you deliberately left out the link so no one would check and read.

look for yourself

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/arab-nationalism-disguised-pan-islam-grave-threat-many-nations-sovereignty-15409/index2.html (http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/arab-nationalism-disguised-pan-islam-grave-threat-many-nations-sovereignty-15409/index2.html)


This is from the source you quoted from.

http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm (http://www.gulfwar1991.com/Gulf%20War%20Complete/Chapter%204,%20Arab%20Nationalism,%20Two%20Conflic ting%20Perspectives,%20By%20Hassan%20A%20El-Najjar.htm)
[/FONT]

And even in that source the Arab Nationalists that were being referred to weren't being described as after some cultural Hegemony on non-Arabs but rather liberators against British and French Colonialism. I don't see what's wrong with that?

Also you're quite a hypocrite, you want to impose Pashtun culture on non-Pashtuns; Superimposing Pashtun supremacy on others; it seems here the reason you accuse others of working for Ethnic Domination interests is because you yourself are Using Ethnic Domination to serve Imperialism.

Dang, Toramana, caught in the act of actually pilfering and altering a source... This is his Judith Miller moment. Leave it to ANP automatons (the real ISI branch of the Paki government) to resort to such measures! This should remain a perma-post so it can be referred to as evidence for the intellectual dishonesty.

ScimitarXEdge
04-03-2011, 09:13 PM
I was actually contemplating making a thread specifically to highlight the Intellectually Dishonest Tactics of Toramana and other servants of Imperialist agendas so that people are made aware of what they're doing. It's important people start being able to recognize their inconsistencies

Baygham
04-03-2011, 11:27 PM
Sx and barakzai, being second generation confused desi's have you guys considered the punk islamic scene of "Taqwacore's". Just heard it on NPR, I think it is Allah calling you guys.

ScimitarXEdge
04-04-2011, 10:02 AM
I don't even know what Taqwacores is

and if you want to see "Desi"....go ask your bacha berish, Toramana about how he thinks Indo-Prakrit speaking Gandharans were ancient Pashtuns. heh and why he idealizes an Indian ruler as his moniker.

How about a little more qualifiable debate skills and a little less having a temper tantrum when your comrades heads are getting squashed?

or is that why you're here? Damage control? Trying to divert into petty bickeirng when Toramana is being exposed for intellectual dishonesty and disinformation?

Baygham
04-04-2011, 11:13 AM
I don't even know what Taqwacores is

and if you want to see "Desi"....go ask your bacha berish, Toramana about how he thinks Indo-Prakrit speaking Gandharans were ancient Pashtuns. heh and why he idealizes an Indian ruler as his moniker.

How about a little more qualifiable debate skills and a little less having a temper tantrum when your comrades heads are getting squashed?

or is that why you're here? Damage control? Trying to divert into petty bickeirng when Toramana is being exposed for intellectual dishonesty and disinformation?
Dear SX, I am not here to debate the superiority of my follies. I come here for a few nostalgic pangs of a place I once called home.

I wish you and every one else here happiness and good fortitude. Toramana, I have known for a long time. I have no problems with his intellect or his honesty. I dont see him being squashed or exposed, quite to the contrary I see you and others like you a mere inconsequential blip in the bigger scheme of things pertaining to watan. People there do not have the same psychological needs as second generation american muslim afghans have. Similarly expat first generation afghans like T and me have our own demons, a little closer to ground but still far far away from the daily travails of a guy in rural pakhtunkhwa or jalalabad. We still have homes in watan, that we grew up in, people on ground that grew up with us. Our memories and tastes are shared yet time has taken us apart from people in watan, we see things and regurgitate those memories on a different fabric of fantasy.

You search for your identity, part afghan, part muslim, part arab, octaroon black, quadroon white, may be a few mongoloid parts, american education, american friends, american social disparities, american success. Its a unique mix of things, 99% is not in common with the guy in watan. Hence my suggestion of Taqwacore, you will find more in common with these guys than with aghans from watan.

ScimitarXEdge
04-04-2011, 12:06 PM
I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but the spirit of your message is a reasonable one and one I think can contribute to providing a more conducive fabric for how things are done.

we're not here to merely imposed Shari'ah or uproot customs; we want a system of equity based on Islamic Principles. we understand that many cultural features are not consistent with Shari'ah but at the same time are relatively innocuous and/or secondary issues that can be addressed later. Our main goal is Muslim Self Sufficiency and Empowerment so that our future generations wont have to come to Western Societies to function, we can do so on our own without their manipulation. Similar to what you argued, a Islamic Block to counter the Europeans and North Americans as well as having a balanced cooperative with China.

Even with what you may describe as religious; you have people who have more rigid attitudes reminiscent of Taliban like Mr. Khorasani

And then you have more comprehensive rationalists like Myself who want a logical and balanced outlook with realistic yet imperative goals to ratify in the Muslim world, which may not seem feasible, but are crucial to be enacted for our future.

ScimitarXEdge
04-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Dear SX, I am not here to debate the superiority of my follies. I come here for a few nostalgic pangs of a place I once called home.

I wish you and every one else here happiness and good fortitude. Toramana, I have known for a long time. I have no problems with his intellect or his honesty. I dont see him being squashed or exposed, quite to the contrary I see you and others like you a mere inconsequential blip in the bigger scheme of things pertaining to watan. People there do not have the same psychological needs as second generation american muslim afghans have. Similarly expat first generation afghans like T and me have our own demons, a little closer to ground but still far far away from the daily travails of a guy in rural pakhtunkhwa or jalalabad. We still have homes in watan, that we grew up in, people on ground that grew up with us. Our memories and tastes are shared yet time has taken us apart from people in watan, we see things and regurgitate those memories on a different fabric of fantasy.

You search for your identity, part afghan, part muslim, part arab, octaroon black, quadroon white, may be a few mongoloid parts, american education, american friends, american social disparities, american success. Its a unique mix of things, 99% is not in common with the guy in watan. Hence my suggestion of Taqwacore, you will find more in common with these guys than with aghans from watan.


This is the most ridiculous tripe you have ever composed; You people are the epitome of the Third Worlder Inferiority Complex.

It takes more than vapid claims of exoneration; your rhetoric, your ideals, your values are consequently the product of psychological subservience and mental colonization; instituted from the days the British left their Brainwashing camps in your areas of India.

Please tell me what is common with a guy in Watan that your own admission do not see the sheer moral destitution of whoring out one's own sister? I say that not to be inflammatory but to be insightful; there are people who are not even Pashtun who are more akin to being Pashtun than you are, if you are ethnically Pashtun that is. Likewise what matters here is the value system; yours are not the normative values of Pashtuns, You've even made it a point to attempt to impress a Westerner ON THIS forum for all eyes to see and berate and degrade the motives and mindset of Pashtuns and their culture and values, as if you were some outsider who superficially looked at Pashtuns from the lense of their shallow vainglorious lense, ignoring the finer nuances and details which someone who is Truly of Pashtun heritage would know. You are not only in contrast of Pashtuns you are in direct enmity towards it and seek to abolish them.

My Education in the West and being raised here are actually Testimony to my credibility not a detraction. That even though I was raised here , experienced their culture. and fluent in their semantics and rhetoric; my intimate familiarity allows me to see it's defects , it's detriments and weaknesses. I have retained my values unscathed; we can't say the same about you, who idealizes the Framework of such a culture to be your own. Are you sure it's not you who's projecting your own complexes here?

I have no conflict with identity; that's what a first generation Indo-Pak Asylum seeker who's desperately trying to find acceptance by appeasing the British Raj's children does. I'm Muslim, my ethnicity is incidental; I choose to be Ethically Pashtun (not merely ethnically) because my rational senses sees the merit of the normative values of Pashtuns, the same values you loathe. There's nothing special to Pashtuns other than that. Individuals like yourself, MI6 aka Mazloom aka leech, who names himself after a BRITISH secret service agency, Toramana, naming himself after an Indian Buddhist etc. are the ones who clearly act as conflicted with the Pashtun heritage and normative values; so much so you reach for things clearly hostile to the normative standards of Pashtuns and idealize it to spread amidst them. Just as you did during the British Raj days.

Of course you won't see Toramana as being dishonest or see problems with his intellect; You are BLIND to reality and live in a perpetual state of abject denial and psychological complexes.

By the way, I just googled Taqwacores, it seems to be something to do with Desi culture; the fact you're aware of such a thing demonstrates that you're more heavily involved in Desi heritage, than Pashtun heritage. In your bid to discredit others, you have only exposed yourself.

ScimitarXEdge
04-04-2011, 12:56 PM
yes I agree about a system based on equaty consistant with islamic principles and i would even call them universal principles because everyone wants equaty and justice and deserves to live in dignity. I am just saying we can not discard many factors which are unique to pashtun society and the tribal and inter tribal issues. The case of pashtuns is more complex because of its tribal nature and past experiences of inter tribal problems. Our problems are very complex and needs people who undrestand these issues.

Forming blocks and union i,e european union can come later on. You never know we might have a muslim union courtesy of the New World Order :hairy:


I would call them universal because Islam is universal it's meant for the whole of mankind, even if segments of mankind do not acknowledge it. But I digress.

I woudl say about 85% of Pashtun culture is compatible with Islam; but let's be honest and this is where I actually agree with Baygham , Toramana and even MI6; there are some heinous things done in our culture that we accept. We trade women to settle rivalries; now originally this was a decent practice when it was based on good will and mutual accord; but now it's become a way to curse and abuse the other and in turn make a woman's life living hell. We ask for insane "bride price", which doesn't necessarily cause homosexuality, but it enables deviant sexual behaviorl; originally the reason for "walwar" wasn't so the father could make a killing in profit, but to compensate for loss of important economic links of the family. Now it's something else. The Certain customs of Pashtuns have lost their original merit; we need to restore that, and the way to do that is through Islam.

You can't honestly tell me that Islam is not needed to intervene on these issues; these are cultural issues, Islam's job is to provide justice for everyone, man, woman, children ....and believe it or not even Animals, the trees and The environment itself. This is where we have to take the understanding of Islam, not merely outward rituals and customs; of how long a beard is or whether women wear burqas or not. Those are secondary.

Toramana
04-04-2011, 05:04 PM
Yar this guy SE is an Arab patriot...the brutal Arab nationalist of the house of Al-Saud...haha give me a cup of tea folks...:hairy:

ScimitarXEdge
04-04-2011, 05:06 PM
Spoken like a True slave of the british raj; shout fire in a crowded theater