View Full Version : Pashtuns and Pakhtuns


afghancoolguy
03-13-2011, 06:57 PM
I guess im kind of confused on this. My understanding is that Pashtuns are from the south and use words like sha and Pakhtuns are from the north and use kha. What is your take?

graveyardofempires
03-13-2011, 07:01 PM
oh brother you seem to be too confused

there is Peshtun/pashtun(south Afg/Balochistan),there is Pukhtun(east afg kunar/jalalabad/Pukhtunkhwa)there is Pakhtun(north Afg/khosta paktia/Laghman)

Fahd
03-13-2011, 07:08 PM
this is how wardak talk or most of them :p
YouTube - Wardak Interviews (June 2008) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02iMlvg_Juw) [/URL]


i just put random video :p

afghancoolguy
03-13-2011, 07:09 PM
oh wow now im so confused, what about kabul I live in Kabul? What would that be considered?

graveyardofempires
03-13-2011, 07:21 PM
oh wow now im so confused, what about kabul I live in Kabul? What would that be considered?
in kabul all come together

afghancoolguy
03-13-2011, 07:23 PM
thanks for the info graveyardofempires ur the only one that answers me lol

graveyardofempires
03-13-2011, 07:25 PM
thanks for the info graveyardofempires ur the only one that answers me lol
any time fella

im from kabul as well

IamDZJ
03-13-2011, 10:52 PM
i used to believe that sha was the trademark of qandaharies until i spoke to my grandfather in phone a few years ago. when i went to afghanistan for a good week or two i could not understand a single word of pashto that my father's side of family spoke while i understood everything that my maternal side of the family spoke perfectly. the first come from sarobi kabul and the later from kunar and jalalabad. i have also seen paktiyawals and wardaks say sha.

Nokia_Apridy
03-14-2011, 06:36 AM
دلته به د يو ټبر خبرا نه کوو

دلته که پښتون د پاره

ښ

د هر ټبر ژبه واړا وي....بدله کي

طالب
03-14-2011, 08:35 PM
I guess im kind of confused on this. My understanding is that Pashtuns are from the south and use words like sha and Pakhtuns are from the north and use kha. What is your take?

Pashtuns and Pakhtuns are not different people, they're just different pronunciations of the same word: پښتون .

The key letter here is ښ . This is a special letter only found in Pashto AFAIK. The point is that in different Pashto dialects the letter is pronounced differently! For example in the Kandahari dialect this sound is pronounced /sh/while in the Yusufzai dialect it's pronounced /kh/.

That's why you see the two different spellings Pashtun and Pakhtun. They're just different pronunciations of the same word!

So to answer your question, Pashtuns and Pakhtuns are both from the north and the south!

Roshina
03-15-2011, 10:04 PM
I guess im kind of confused on this. My understanding is that Pashtuns are from the south and use words like sha and Pakhtuns are from the north and use kha. What is your take?

Yeah, it's just a matter of dialects. The "kh" (Pekhawar, Pukhtun, Pukhto, Pakhto, kha) is used in the hard dialect, while the soft dialect uses "sh" for the same words: Peshawar, Pushtun/Pashtun, Pashto/Pushto, sha. You may click here (http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2011/01/sh-and-kh-in-pashto-on-pashto-dialects.html) for more information, including which regions use which dialect.

BarakzaiAbdali
03-15-2011, 11:02 PM
Its not much different than German dialects. I learned German under a Bavarian and she taught me to say: Ish habe Deutsche gelernt im Gymnasium fur viere jahre, aber meine Deutsche ist nisht zehr gut." versus the Berliner dialect "Ich habe ... sehre gut "

Both are, far all intents and purposes, German dialects.

torkham
03-18-2011, 08:09 AM
i used to believe that sha was the trademark of qandaharies until i spoke to my grandfather in phone a few years ago. when i went to afghanistan for a good week or two i could not understand a single word of pashto that my father's side of family spoke while i understood everything that my maternal side of the family spoke perfectly. the first come from sarobi kabul and the later from kunar and jalalabad. i have also seen paktiyawals and wardaks say sha.

please clarify. what do your sarobi relatives speak. sheen or kheen.

torkham
03-18-2011, 08:16 AM
Its not much different than German dialects. I learned German under a Bavarian and she taught me to say: Ish habe Deutsche gelernt im Gymnasium fur viere jahre, aber meine Deutsche ist nisht zehr gut." versus the Berliner dialect "Ich habe ... sehre gut "

Both are, far all intents and purposes, German dialects.

und jetzt, bist du in deutshland oder was? ich auch hat gelernt imbischen deutsch, aber ich weis mein deutsch ist schlescht (!!!) ich war in hamburg fur acht jahren for meine magister studium. da leute sind so kalt und unfreundlisch in hamburg, und ich hat gehoert leute von bayern sind konservative un sehr christlisch. naja, so ist das leben.

ok wrora abdali, weider hoeren,

Digital Malang
03-18-2011, 11:59 AM
please clarify. what do your sarobi relatives speak. sheen or kheen.

I am 100% sure they speak kheen.
source: tol umer me alta mayan/gaban eat karhee dee. de surobi mayan me us yadezee..... :cryy:

graveyardofempires
03-18-2011, 12:09 PM
und jetzt, bist du in deutshland oder was? ich auch hat gelernt imbischen deutsch, aber ich weis mein deutsch ist schlescht (!!!) ich war in hamburg fur acht jahren for meine magister studium. da leute sind so kalt und unfreundlisch in hamburg, und ich hat gehoert leute von bayern sind konservative un sehr christlisch. naja, so ist das leben.

ok wrora abdali, weider hoeren,
ihren sprechen sehr gut deutsch :)

danke shone meinen bruder
vielen spass in dem leben tchuss.

BLS_1919v2.0
03-18-2011, 03:21 PM
und jetzt, bist du in deutshland oder was? ich auch hat gelernt imbischen deutsch, aber ich weis mein deutsch ist schlescht (!!!) ich war in hamburg fur acht jahren for meine magister studium. da leute sind so kalt und unfreundlisch in hamburg, und ich hat gehoert leute von bayern sind konservative un sehr christlisch. naja, so ist das leben.

ok wrora abdali, weider hoeren,

I am sure the people weren't that cold and unfriendly wrora ;-). My german is a little rusty but I believe I got most of it. BTW what was your major?

BarakzaiAbdali
03-18-2011, 05:56 PM
und jetzt, bist du in deutshland oder was? ich auch hat gelernt imbischen deutsch, aber ich weis mein deutsch ist schlescht (!!!) ich war in hamburg fur acht jahren for meine magister studium. da leute sind so kalt und unfreundlisch in hamburg, und ich hat gehoert leute von bayern sind konservative un sehr christlisch. naja, so ist das leben.

ok wrora abdali, weider hoeren,

Danke Schon Herr Torkham, aber mein Englisch ist viele besser.

I understand it at this point, but can no longer really speak beyond simple sentences.

Seriously, that is a thousand times better than I could do, now being 12 years out from such coursework. I'll stick to English per my embarrassingly poor German. No, to answer your question, I was not in Germany. In American high schools you can take advanced placement courses so I took about 5 years of German and reached a reasonable fluency.

Regarding the nature of those from Hamburg, the engineers I worked with here and there were a little cold at first, but they opened up once I started to joke around with them. I did not know that people from Bayern were more involved in faith matters.

Michin Khel
04-08-2011, 01:24 PM
We Pashtuns of soft dialect are minority in pakistan compared to hard dialect speakers. Balochistan, DI khan, tank, waziristan, lakki marwat, bannu and karak are the areas where soft sheen dialect is spoken. When we go to peshawer then we modify our dialect according to their one. As pashto is taught in yousafzai dialect therefore we all can use it while kheen speakers are unable to properly understand it. The main problem is difference in vacabulary. When for the first time i went to peshawer and i was on bus, i asked bus conductor to stop on reaching destination, the bus did'nt stop, it slowed down and conductor said "halaka ogharza". I thought he is out of his mind as in our dialect ogharza means 'do the dance'.

Janana
04-08-2011, 04:13 PM
Yeah, it's just a matter of dialects. The "kh" (Pekhawar, Pukhtun, Pukhto, Pakhto, kha) is used in the hard dialect, while the soft dialect uses "sh" for the same words: Peshawar, Pushtun/Pashtun, Pashto/Pushto, sha. You may click here (http://qrratugai.blogspot.com/2011/01/sh-and-kh-in-pashto-on-pashto-dialects.html) for more information, including which regions use which dialect.

I read your blog posting on this, what a great read. I appreciate the links you've also listed at the bottom for Pashto reading.

Aryob
04-09-2011, 04:42 AM
Like everyone else said, Pashtun/Pakhtun/Pukhtun is all the same word pronounced differently. If we start with the word پښتو itself a lot of us would pronounce it differently. I believe the standard way would be to put a zwarakay (not zwar) on پ and then pronounce the rest of the word. It will be hard for me to spell it but zwarakay is an added diacritic in Pashto that we don't stretch as we do the zwar or zabar or fatha.

You would hear the "she" of the letter ښ and the "zhe" of the letter ږ in Kandahar/Helmand/Farah/Nimroz/Uruzgan/Herat/Zabol/Ghazni and all the way east in Paktika (not Paktia) and then south in quetta and all of balochistan's pashtun population. You will also hear the "she" and "zhe" in waziristan, Laki, dera ismail khan, tank areas but their accent is very different than kandari, as a paktiawal its very easy for me to understand.

YouTube - Words of Life WAZIRI People/Language Movie Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcdx5NMFtHE ) (Waziri dialact)

I might be missing some regions but in a bigger picture rest of the pashtuns use the "khe" ښ and "gey" ږ but their dialacts differ. The central provinces of Afghanistan (Kabul (including surobi offcourse), Wardak, Logar) uses "khe" and "gey" and thats the pashto you would hear on Afghan national TVs and government spokesmen speaking it so is considered more standard.

YouTube - Good News PASHTU Kabuli (for men) People/Language Movie Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWVyFiBsqA) (Kabul Pashto, please only hear the words not the content. Khodai me de ne gonangarawi :) ).

Paktia/khost/Paktika also uses khe and gey but dialact and added vocabulary makes it hard for others to understand. Kurram agency and Waziri also sound very similar.

Nokia_Apridy
04-09-2011, 04:56 AM
sample daga da chay zha TABAR ta na goro........

PUKHTU Ka KHEEN chay raghlay daga da para chay Kheen da sheen ka nashi badlwalay...

mannnnnnnnnna

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-09-2011, 05:10 AM
what is the dialect called when you neither say "sheen" or "kheen" but pronounce it the way its written, we say pahto, we neither say pashto or pukhto. Is this typical or Ghilzais?

That is called the "Wrong dialect".....lol.....you don't have another choice other than to pronounce it either "pakhto" or "Pashto" .....i haven't heard anybody pronouncing like that.......though here in our locality many people don't say "Qaaf" but they use "kaaf" instead in many words .....Like for people they say "Khalak" not "khalaq"(the correct one)........similarly many people use "hey" instead of "khey" in many words........like for "khabara" they would say "habara".......This is nothing other but a wrong pronounciation which have now become "ghalat ul Aam" and large number of people do that.......I myself wouldl say "Khalak" .......

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-09-2011, 05:14 AM
When for the first time i went to peshawer and i was on bus, i asked bus conductor to stop on reaching destination, the bus did'nt stop, it slowed down and conductor said "halaka ogharza". I thought he is out of his mind as in our dialect ogharza means 'do the dance'.

Lol.......daa ba sok "Qandaharey" wo......we don't say "Oghorza" .....in our dialect we say "Ttop ka"....and for dance we have word "Gadedal/nasedal"........

Aryob
04-09-2011, 05:27 AM
That is called the "Wrong dialect".....lol.....you don't have another choice other than to pronounce it either "pakhto" or "Pashto" .....i haven't heard anybody pronouncing like that.......though here in our locality many people don't say "Qaaf" but they use "kaaf" instead in many words .....Like for people they say "Khalak" not "khalaq"(the correct one)........similarly many people use "hey" instead of "khey" in many words........like for "khabara" they would say "habara".......This is nothing other but a wrong pronounciation which have now become "ghalat ul Aam" and large number of people do that.......I myself wouldl say "Khalak" .......

Khalak is Pashto, Khalaq is Arabic. In urdu its localized as it is, which is Khalq but in Pashto its localized as Khalak. I should say inherited not localized. Languages inherit from eachother and localize them.

ث ح ذ ص ط ف ق are arabic letters, brought into Pashto alphabet system after the influence of Islam. Any word containing one of these letters in any pashto word is actually not a pashto word but a foreign word (probably arabic) and inherited, so its not natural for a Pashtun to pronounce them accurately. I still pronounce kafir is kapayr, kalam not qalam.

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-09-2011, 05:37 AM
Thanks for your kind post though i knew it already what you mentioned........
but according to your logic this should happen with the other words too........for example "Ihtiraam" is arabic it is pronounced as it is......so are other arabic words which are pronounce as they are .......but my point is why it happens only with words having "qaaf and kaaf", "khey and hey" etc........?

Nokia_Apridy
04-09-2011, 05:44 AM
واه واه ډير ښه د هر کانړي لاندے لالونه د پښتو پراته دي مننه

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-09-2011, 05:51 AM
Aryuba wrora! Da Bara Galai famous conference where Scholars/poets/writers of pashto from both sides of Durand line met to discuss Pashto Imla took almost 17 decisions and both the parties agreed upon it........let me share the very first ٢ decisions of that historic meeting.:

وړومبۍ فېصله
هغه کليمې چې د عربۍ او فارسۍ نه پښتو ته راغلي دي او معنی يې هم هغه ساتلې ده ، هغه به په خپل اصل شکل کښې ليکلے شي۔ لکه قميص، قصه، ضعيف
وضاحت: يعني دا به کميس يا قميس، کسه او زعيپ يا زعيف نه ليکو۔

دويئمه فېصله
هغه کلمات چې پښتو خپل کړي دي، خو معنې يا شکل ئې بدل شوے دے هغه به په پښتو تورو سره ليکو لکه تپوس ، پام او د عربۍ مخصوص توري به د پښتو په کلماتو کښې نۀ ليکو مثلاً تورخم به په ت سره ليکو نه چې په ط سره

وضاحت: تپوس اصل کښي تفحص وو، پام اصل کښې فهم وو خو مونږ يې تپوس اؤ پام وايو نو دا په هم تپوس اؤ پام ليکو۔ دغه شان تورخم د پښتو ټکے دے دا به د عربۍ په تورو طورخم نه ليکو۔دغه شان نور۔

Yousafzai Pakhtun
04-09-2011, 05:52 AM
Oss dey sa' khyal dey??????? Tsanga okam?????

Aryob
04-09-2011, 05:58 AM
i guess that's how they are transformed over the period of time. And its not natural for a Pashtun to accurately pronounce Qaaf, fay, heh, saad, toy etc. And honestly speaking most of us can not pronounce them as accurately as Arabs do, not even some mullahs who put extra emphasis on the HEH (halwa wala heh) and qaaf. I still haven't figured out the difference among ذ ز ض ظ.

If you take out all the words that we have inherited from arabic and other languages then all pashtuns in any kalai and whether they have been to school or not will pronounce all the words as accurately as they could possibly be.

Aryob
04-09-2011, 06:07 AM
ze ne pohegam che da baRa galai da nasta kala shawe wa. ka da agha zaRa nasta wi no aghe na pasta bala nasta bia shawe da aw ma awredali che dwaRe khwa pa de sar ta rasedali che da urdu ے ba ne karawi. no wos ne pohegam che agha ba kala berta badlegi.

as far as the kamees and keesa is concerned, i have always been reading them as کمیس and کیسه in Afghan books and news. For me قصه قمیص is absolutely wrong.

Badlun
04-09-2011, 03:41 PM
Like everyone else said, Pashtun/Pakhtun/Pukhtun is all the same word pronounced differently. If we start with the word پښتو itself a lot of us would pronounce it differently. I believe the standard way would be to put a zwarakay (not zwar) on پ and then pronounce the rest of the word. It will be hard for me to spell it but zwarakay is an added diacritic in Pashto that we don't stretch as we do the zwar or zabar or fatha.

You would hear the "she" of the letter ښ and the "zhe" of the letter ږ in Kandahar/Helmand/Farah/Nimroz/Uruzgan/Herat/Zabol/Ghazni and all the way east in Paktika (not Paktia) and then south in quetta and all of balochistan's pashtun population. You will also hear the "she" and "zhe" in waziristan, Laki, dera ismail khan, tank areas but their accent is very different than kandari, as a paktiawal its very easy for me to understand.

YouTube - Words of Life WAZIRI People/Language Movie Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcdx5NMFtHE) (Waziri dialact)

I might be missing some regions but in a bigger picture rest of the pashtuns use the "khe" ښ and "gey" ږ but their dialacts differ. The central provinces of Afghanistan (Kabul (including surobi offcourse), Wardak, Logar) uses "khe" and "gey" and thats the pashto you would hear on Afghan national TVs and government spokesmen speaking it so is considered more standard.

YouTube - Good News PASHTU Kabuli (for men) People/Language Movie Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWVyFiBsqA) (Kabul Pashto, please only hear the words not the content. Khodai me de ne gonangarawi :) ).

Paktia/khost/Paktika also uses khe and gey but dialact and added vocabulary makes it hard for others to understand. Kurram agency and Waziri also sound very similar.

Good material for Pashto listening but no body noticed that its preaching Christianity in Pashto. Still I appreciate these recordings and its not sure where the speakers are Christians or otherwise.

Aryob
04-14-2011, 11:34 AM
daa dai zamong de zazayo khwaga zhaba........


YouTube - Da Aryobe Zazai Seama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYLf_1SShw)

Aryob
04-14-2011, 11:38 AM
and this is my infamous wardak mama video :)

YouTube - Wardak mama - :) - www.afghanan.net (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEi8lo2Qt18)

BLS_1919v2.0
04-14-2011, 11:57 AM
daa dai zamong de zazayo khwaga zhaba........


YouTube - Da Aryobe Zazai Seama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYLf_1SShw)

Baba sounds like a little like the Afridis that I have heard. Although I am not entirely sure. I have a paktiawaal friend, and he told me his area and the Afridi's dialect of pashto is almost the same (if not the closest to theirs).

Nokia_Apridy
04-14-2011, 12:30 PM
na Bls .......Orakzai KHOYAT KHAIL...

graveyardofempires
04-14-2011, 01:06 PM
daa dai zamong de zazayo khwaga zhaba........


YouTube - Da Aryobe Zazai Seama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYLf_1SShw)
wahwah jwandey wosey Baba se khwandawera khabera dey wekra.

these are the most knowledgeable people who know the world and life.

graveyardofempires
04-14-2011, 01:11 PM
Kandahar accent

YouTube - chaman taliban funny on usa force (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcPZfyv3wm8&feature=related)

YouTube - CHAMAN FUNNY LALI MAMA BY SHAMSHOZAI KHAN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oB3aqtFtjc&feature=related)

graveyardofempires
04-14-2011, 01:33 PM
Kunar Pukhto

YouTube - Dateline Behind Enemy Lines in Afghanistan part 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3GswMvq1pE)

sahil112
04-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Kandahar accent

YouTube - chaman taliban funny on usa force (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcPZfyv3wm8&feature=related)

YouTube - CHAMAN FUNNY LALI MAMA BY SHAMSHOZAI KHAN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oB3aqtFtjc&feature=related)

the first video is so funny ahaha thank you for posting it!!!!

kakargirl
04-14-2011, 07:51 PM
sahil kandaharians know how to take the mick , i think they are excellent at it , it comes naturally, one of my brother does great impressions when hes in a good mood , well funny mood.

sahil112
04-14-2011, 07:55 PM
sahil kandaharians know how to take the mick , i think they are excellent at it , it comes naturally, one of my brother does great impressions when hes in a good mood , well funny mood.

yh ino but the taliban guy is legend!!! i wish i cud sit dwn with him ova tea and hve couple of jkez ahaha

kakargirl
04-14-2011, 08:07 PM
yh ino but the taliban guy is legend!!! i wish i cud sit dwn with him ova tea and hve couple of jkez ahahayeah hes a legend , thats the thing about back home the men/boys know how to have a laugh its a normal thing, when he was laughing it reminded me of my cousin back home if they crack a joke and that high pitched laughter, its same with when females get togeather they will do impressions its a good laugh ,it makes you home sick.

Gulbabo
04-14-2011, 08:39 PM
lol @ wrong dialect.

this is an example of how we speak, listen how in the begining he say پښتو, and not پشتو or پختو

YouTube - Pashto: Alphabets (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5QZE9ew6eg)

how you pronounce ښ this letter?

it is 'pahhto' with a deep 'hey' sound and very very slight 'khay'. the alphabet you posted is pronounced as 'heen' with a slight khay and a very deep 'hay'... very slight that it shouldn't sound like 'khay' in 'khoshala'...

in Afghanistan, the use sound of alphabet 'khay' when refering to 'heen' is associated with either laghmanian, or pekhawrian... mostly they say 'pakhhhhhhhhto'...