View Full Version : Will the World Really End?


pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 07:29 AM
We have been hearing all these fake theories based on the some stories and tales narrated by the ignorant people.It is worth listening to a Physicist who knows much more about the world and universe then the ignorant Mullas who use religion as their source of income.

Listen to the video carefully.

http://bigthink.com/series/31?selected=18973#player

Palwasha
03-12-2010, 11:49 AM
Physics always was my least favourite science...

Also, these Physcists, with the help of modern technology (and endless amount of money), have discovered things which have already been known much before their time. I don't rate them all that much.

We have been hearing all these fake theories based on the some stories and tales narrated by the ignorant people.It is worth listening to a Physicist who knows much more about the world and universe then the ignorant Mullas who use religion as their source of income.

Interesting...and when you say tales, fake theories etc. exactly what are you referring to wror?

And not every mullah is ignorant or money mongering, there's a few bad eggs in every basket. ;)

Palwasha
03-12-2010, 11:58 AM
^Erm what are on you about..?

Pir_Rokhan expressed his views and I expressed mine, ya get me.

Palwasha
03-12-2010, 01:03 PM
^Do you have any clue how much they have contributed?
Enlighten me.
How can you make such a comment.
Wasn't very hard - just typed what I thought kana.

Physics isn't a belief, it's an aspect of science; there's no obligation upon me to accept *every* single theory they come up with - (not saying I deny science).

And such a comment...?

I don't even know exactly what you're on about, but dude please, it's not as if I wished death on them, I'm just not into physics.

Whatever you think is up to you mate, but don't shoot down others who oppose, challenge or question.

@ Alokozai - Thank you wrora.

Master Khan
03-12-2010, 01:06 PM
what is this crap

pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 01:39 PM
because of people like that people turn athiest.

What he is saying is based on scientific proof and not what you have learnt in your mosques from the mullas who need education themselves.So I would suggest to debate it on scientific grounds if you have sufficient knowledge instead of passing judgments like "muftis".Our judgement means nothing to the community of the learned people.

pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Physics always was my least favourite science...

Also, these Physcists, with the help of modern technology (and endless amount of money), have discovered things which have already been known much before their time. I don't rate them all that much.

We have been hearing all these fake theories based on the some stories and tales narrated by the ignorant people.It is worth listening to a Physicist who knows much more about the world and universe then the ignorant Mullas who use religion as their source of income.

Interesting...and when you say tales, fake theories etc. exactly what are you referring to wror?

And not every mullah is ignorant or money mongering, there's a few bad eggs in every basket. ;)

Khanay
Where did you get this revelation that those things were known much before them.

I am referring to all those tales which may be your brother or father ,if not you, would have heard being narrated by the stereotypes called 'Tablighi'.Their whole philosophy is to say astalavista to logic reason and argument.

About mulla I was focussing on mulla's intellectual and academic abilities and knowledge of contemporary social and physical sciences ,nothing aimed at their personna.I sympathise with them for their obsolete knowledge about the life and universe.

pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 01:50 PM
^How dare you say such a thing, The nerves.

Excuse me? Are you referring to me to Michio kaku or to khanay?

Let me know ,if its me or kaku so I would like to dare a little more to your surprise.

I disagree with Khanay khor on the basis which I mentioned in repply to her post.

pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 01:53 PM
^Do you have any clue how much they have contributed? How can you make such a comment.

If 'they" mean scientists ,I corroborate your reply.If its mullas I would like to know their contribution.Please always be specific.

pir_Rokhan
03-12-2010, 01:55 PM
what is this crap

What is what crap? This is like "dagha".Elaborate with arguments.

Master Khan
03-13-2010, 12:19 PM
[quote="Master Khan":2851dnvx]what is this crap

What is what crap? This is like "dagha".Elaborate with arguments.[/quote:2851dnvx]
I don't believe this crap.
Only Allah can end the world and no one else can.

pir_Rokhan
03-13-2010, 01:15 PM
Pir Rokhan, What is your view on this!

Afridi Khana wrora

Regarding the theory part science has space for debate and criticism but regarding the scientifically proved part we do not have any source to know except the science.

The problem with us is that the moment we hear anything related to knowledge and science,we directly reject it attributing it to God without knowing what do we mean.Foe example ,saying God can destroy the world does not contradict what science says.Sceince tells us how will the God destroy the world.

God sends the rain may be the beleif of a beleiver but science tells us how he sends the rain.

God created the universe but how has he created is what science tells us.

The illogical mentality nurtured by our religeous people is a big hurdle to our progress.

Knowledge and creativity is the product of enquiry and skepticism not belief and faith.It is another bitter fact that what we call faith is just the emotional and non scientific explanation of some clergymen who have no idea of what the world and universe is about and have conquered the minds of our simple people with their sweet words which is a social requirement to get more and more alms and charity.

Shamaar
03-13-2010, 06:51 PM
We have to remember that Physics is a man-made thing. Just like the laws of countries, Physics is not perfect. Only the laws of Allah (swt) are perfect.

I have a degree in Chemical Physics and I know how quickly this science changes. In the 1800s they thought they knew everything, then came Einstein with Quantum Mechanics and changed the world.

I gaurantee you someone will bring another new revelation soon that will bring scientists back to square one.

If these people are still learning about the world, then how can they possibly predict when it will end lol.

Palwasha
03-13-2010, 07:04 PM
Where did you get this revelation that those things were known much before them.

I meant in the Quran, but I understand when you say..

''God sends the rain may be the beleif of a beleiver but science tells us how he sends the rain.

God created the universe but how has he created is what science tells us''

We have to remember that Physics is a man-made thing. Just like the laws of countries, Physics is not perfect. Only the laws of Allah (swt) are perfect.

I have a degree in Chemical Physics and I know how quickly this science changes. In the 1800s they thought they knew everything, then came Einstein with Quantum Mechanics and changed the world.

I gaurantee you someone will bring another new revelation soon that will bring scientists back to square one.

If these people are still learning about the world, then how can they possibly predict when it will end lol.

*Completely* agree.

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 08:18 PM
because of people like that people turn athiest.

What he is saying is based on scientific proof and not what you have learnt in your mosques from the mullas who need education themselves.So I would suggest to debate it on scientific grounds if you have sufficient knowledge instead of passing judgments like "muftis".Our judgement means nothing to the community of the learned people.

I gotta love you for this, man.. What you've posted above is something I know to be the absolute truth in the face of Medievalist backwardness and the culture of hateful ignorance. "Oh no, men are wearing women's clothes and vice-versa, the world's gonna end". Or "Oh my, there is corruption upon the earth! The world is going to end". Some others say:

"The Mayans said 2012. So 2012 it is".
"Reptiles are walking on the earth... the end of times is here".
"My holy book says xyz will happen and then the world will end. And now xyz is beginning to happen omg".

I can't even begin to describe how much such assessments make me angry. How about we, for a change, listen to the people who actually know more about the universe than the fattest Mufti with the biggest beard and the largest collection of underage wives will ever be able to conceive? When I get sick, I trust doctors, not magicians. Therefore, when it comes to my universe, I trust Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins over generic mufti #1 and all his mindless opium-ridden zombies.

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 08:23 PM
[quote="pir_Rokhan":3s9f6j4h][quote="Master Khan":3s9f6j4h]what is this crap

What is what crap? This is like "dagha".Elaborate with arguments.[/quote:3s9f6j4h]
I don't believe this crap.
Only Allah can end the world and no one else can.[/quote:3s9f6j4h]

What is this crap? This:
Kaku graduated summa cum laude from Harvard University with a B.S. degree in 1968 and was first in his physics class. He attended the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley and received a Ph.D. in 1972, and held a lectureship at Princeton University in 1973. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michio_Kaku

And only Allah can tell when you get sick and die so next time, please don't go to kafir hospitals and take kafir medicine. And only Allah decides who you meet and talk to so please stop using this kafir internet and this kafir computer technology. Please...

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 08:32 PM
Where did you get this revelation that those things were known much before them.

I meant in the Quran, but I understand when you say..

''God sends the rain may be the beleif of a beleiver but science tells us how he sends the rain.

God created the universe but how has he created is what science tells us''

We have to remember that Physics is a man-made thing. Just like the laws of countries, Physics is not perfect. Only the laws of Allah (swt) are perfect.

I have a degree in Chemical Physics and I know how quickly this science changes. In the 1800s they thought they knew everything, then came Einstein with Quantum Mechanics and changed the world.

I gaurantee you someone will bring another new revelation soon that will bring scientists back to square one.

If these people are still learning about the world, then how can they possibly predict when it will end lol.

*Completely* agree.

How can you agree to such quackery? Science is a self-correcting process unlike religion which, since flawed from its inception, remains flawed forever.

As for "laws," as a student of science, you should know that mathematics is absolute and anything proven by it becomes law. Therefore, the laws of gravity and the laws of thermodynamics are mathematically proven laws whose analogy with the laws of countries is not just inappropriate but criminal. Now you may not believe in gravity or evolution or science in general but the truth is that they affect you everyday, without your consent.

"These people" are busy every day and every night trying to learn more about the universe we inhabit. There are still major gaps in their knowledge as far as finding out everything about our cosmos is concerned but considering where we were only a hundred years ago, massive strides of progress have been made. Religion, on the other hand, for the past 2,000 years has produced NOTHING as far as the understanding of the universe is concerned and has, in fact, contributed only to ignorance and the occasional beheading.

If you have a new "revelation" and you can prove it scientifically then your theory or law would be accepted - that is science. That's also the beauty of science. As far as religion goes, it still continues to hinder scientific progress. Remember the loonies that wanted Gallileo's head for stating the simple scientific truth regarding the model of the solar system? Those nut-heads are still out there denying evolution and theoretical physics. A hundred years from now, their own children would disown them.

shinwari
03-13-2010, 08:55 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 09:45 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

bus... cherey na evidence rashi, halta ze imaan larum... te subuut khkara ka ma ta - ze ba waley na umanum..

Shahwali
03-13-2010, 09:46 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

bus... cherey na evidence rashi, halta ze imaan larum... te subuut khkara ka ma ta - ze ba waley na umanum..

So you are an Atheist?

helmandboy
03-13-2010, 10:41 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

bus... cherey na evidence rashi, halta ze imaan larum... te subuut khkara ka ma ta - ze ba waley na umanum..


Talk about ignorance, "Show me proof".


SMH

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 10:59 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

bus... cherey na evidence rashi, halta ze imaan larum... te subuut khkara ka ma ta - ze ba waley na umanum..


Talk about ignorance, "Show me proof".


SMH


Yeah... I want to see the correlation between people's clothing choices and the catastrophic end of the universe as we know it. :lol:

Latif
03-13-2010, 11:11 PM
^ Are you really a Non-Muslim wrora? Share your views.

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-13-2010, 11:42 PM
What is wrong with you guys? Leave Heathen alone, If he has different views, Let it be.

Welcome Heathen.

Thank you for understanding....

And I'm sorry if I come across as harsh or arrogant. I live in a society where I can't express my feelings and my views openly because if I do, my family and I will be harassed and killed (judicially or extra-judicially). Everyday, I have to listen to people teaching pseudo-science creationism to kids and adults and filling their susceptible minds with superstition... and it makes me especially angry because I cannot do anything about it.

Sincere
03-13-2010, 11:49 PM
What is wrong with you guys? Leave Heathen alone, If he has different views, Let it be.

Welcome Heathen.

Thank you for understanding....

And I'm sorry if I come across as harsh or arrogant. I live in a society where I can't express my feelings and my views openly because if I do, my family and I will be harassed and killed (judicially or extra-judicially). Everyday, I have to listen to people teaching pseudo-science creationism to kids and adults and filling their susceptible minds with superstition... and it makes me especially angry because I cannot do anything about it.

Which society is this?

Levanaye Zalmaye
03-14-2010, 12:01 AM
Which society is this?

Everywhere from Morocco to Indonesia. The land that's stuck in 1430, ironically.

Do you mind arguing your views?

I already have... read the last page of this thread.

I absolutely hate it when people IMPOSE their views on other people, Jeez, Heathen wrora, Stick with your views.

Imagine what I have to go through everyday... I never once imposed any view on anyone, much less my own.

Roshina
03-14-2010, 01:09 AM
@ Heathen: Yes, our societies aren't really used to having differences of opinion. It's either "our" way or "no way." I know of some Muslims who have completely left Islam because they're not allowed to present their opinions (we're taught that "having opinions is forbidden in Islam because it leads to creation of new branches in Islam, and division in Islam is haraam."). I really don't blame them. We're also taught that anyone who leaves Islam is to be killed, and then you ask them to define Muslim, and they really don't have an answer. Interestingly, according to al-Muslim and some classical Muslim jurists, "Anyone who doesn't pray 5 times a day should be killed," a conclusion based on a hadith that says that the one thing that distinguishes a Muslim from a non-Muslim is the daily prayers.

We think we're SO on the right path that anyone who disagrees with us even slightly is on the wrong. I don't like this thinking, and I thin it poses so many dangers for our society. It's exactly this perception of our religion that we're not even allowed to "criticize" (I don't call it criticism, but even if it IS criticism, so what? What's wrong with it?) our "Muslim leaders," or ulama, or those whom the majority of us consider scholars. It's not to condescend anyone; it's only to say that they don't hold the exact same value in every single Muslim's life.

I'm sorry that we don't have a better place in our society for Muslims who question out loud, and want to *understand* before they accept anything as legitimate for themselves; I'm sorry that we don't have a place in our society for Muslims who prefer science to religious beliefs and practices that do not seem rational to them; I'm sorry that we have no respect or tolerance for any Muslim who doesn't live up to *our* standards; and I'm sorry that it is *our* anti-reason, anti-thinking attitude that often leads to many Muslims' becoming apostates.

The same style of thinking we forbid on Muslims TODAY is *the* reason that Islam flourished so quickly universally. But how many Muslims pause to study Islam, Islamic history, the major Muslim icons of our glorious (yes, glorious) past to be able to respect those who either leave Islam or who are unsure about Islam but were born to Muslim families?

In my opinion, the more we suppress people's inner thoughts and the less media we provide them through which to express their beliefs openly, the easier we make it for them to just leave Islam.

So, my suggestion to you: Do NOT doubt yourself, and don't let anyone disrespect you for your beliefs. If they think they have the right to disrespect YOU, that automatically gives YOU the right to disrespect THEM as well. (NOT that I believe you should disrespect them in return, though. Just that, I believe we treat others the way we WANT them to treat us.) Besides, at least you make up your own mind and it's not made up FOR you by anyone else. How many of us get to do THAT? We say, "Hey, I CHOSE Islam myself. I studied it, and it's my CHOICE, okay?"
Well, "That's great to know. But... how many other religions did you study along with it? And by studying other religions, I don't mean going to anti-Christian websites or others that THINK they have thoroughly and impartially studied other religions and know what they're talking about. I mean studying them from *their* perspectives, using *their* sources." But nope ... we feel too inadequate to do that because if we study other people's religions from THEIR perspective, what if we are convinced and we turn to their religion and leave Islam? THIS is the fear too many of us have, unfortunately. That should prove whose imaan/faith is so low.

Anyway, take a look at this. I think you'd love it. The last lines of it are simply mind-blowing!

One Hundred and Eighty Degrees

Have you considered the possibility
that everything you believe is wrong,
not merely off a bit, but totally wrong,
nothing like things as they really are?

If you've done this, you know how durably fragile
those phantoms we hold in our heads are,
those wisps of thought that people die and kill for,
betray lovers for, give up lifelong friendships for.

If you've not done this, you probably don't understand this poem,
or think it's not even a poem, but a bit of opaque nonsense,
occupying too much of your day's time,
so you probably should stop reading it here, now.

But if you've arrived at this line,
maybe, just maybe, you're open to that possibility,
the possibility of being absolutely completely wrong,
about everything that matters.

How different the world seems then:
everyone who was your enemy is your friend,
everything you hated, you now love,
and everything you love slips through your fingers like sand.

~ by Federico Moramarco

Roshina
03-14-2010, 01:21 AM
^Damn Khor! :)
LOL! Whaaaat...! I get really upset when I see Muslims behaving negatively towards those who don't wanna be Muslims or who choose to leave Islam or who just don't wanna be forbidden from speaking their minds, even if they're what we'd consider "anti-Muslim" or "anti-Islamic," you know? ... It's really unhealthy for the community, I'd think.

Roshina
03-14-2010, 01:35 AM
Im just saying you summarize things so good lol.
Manana, wrora!
They can debate their views here as much as they want, I am sure Admin Khan does not mind.
Yeah, he doesn't mind for sure. I think as long as no one turns to name-calling and insults and abuses, no one's expression of their views is offensive and is instead actually appreciated.

pir_Rokhan
03-14-2010, 06:10 AM
I appreciate the inputs of all the members.

I would like to opine that the only logical way for considering any point of view is a skeptic approach towards it.We should neither accept nor reject a point of view if it is not supported by sufficient arguments.

The rejection of a point of view should always be the rejection of the arguments for that point of view while the acceptance of a point of view is the acceptance of the arguments for that point of view.This has been the principle of all those societies which have evolved from primitive to modern.

You can never progress and evolve to a higher level of civilisation if you believe in something just because your parents or ancestors used to believe in it.It is better to be a non believer with arguments than to be a believer without arguments.

Pukhtuns are accomodating but free people.We do not hate anyone due to one's religion ,race ,langauge , color or creed.We refuse to accept the authority of anyone who wants to impose his or her views on us without arguments and just by force.

Shawonkey
03-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Ill wait until heathen finishes replying to everything above before I present my opposition.

pir_Rokhan
03-17-2010, 11:07 PM
^Your aqeedah is very weak bro.

How can we make our aqeedah strong?