View Full Version : Terrorism In Pakistan And Afghanistan..Causes and solutions


Badlun
05-09-2010, 08:35 PM
Terrorism is now the most important global, regional and national issue. Lots of information on the definition of terrorism, its causes and solution is avaialble in internet , media and other resources.

I would like to tackle this issue with the help of the knowledgable members of this forum on more creative, original and pragmatic grounds. A document may be prepared here in such a manner which may not only be useful but also convincing to the extent that policy makers and implementers may refer to this document as a helpful resource when they plan to tackle the issue of terrorism.

We may keep international standards of preparation and presentation while discussing this issue. The language should not be that of light discussions or chats rather it should be more scholarly and impressive. Objective analysis with facts and figures will be highly appreciated. We may concentrate on the regions of Afghansitan and Pakistan but other regions like Iraq, Colombia , Srilanka may also be referred in case required.

We may develop a comprehensive research paper here which should be useful for all stock holders in the phenomenon of Terrorism like Pakistani and Afghan Army. ISI, KHAD, other Pakistani and Afghan intelligence agencies and Ministries, Presidencies etc, USA, CIA , ISAF, NATO, Taliban, Al qaeda,Arabs, wahabis. religious exremists and fundamentalists, Pashtun nationalist leaders , Secular parties and persons and all other concerned.

We may define terrorism, its causes and solutions but in a creative original way as mere repitition of whatever already available may not serve the purpose.

We should write with the true spirit how this menace of terrorism can really be effaced. We must contribute our part in the war against terrorism.

شمله ور خراساني
05-10-2010, 06:14 AM
America and its' allies, like NATO etc are terrorists.

How are you going to solve the problem of their global terrorism with a piece compiled by a few random people on a forum?


If you are intending to label all Muslims fighting for their rights and liberties in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Palestine, Chechenia etc as terrorists, then you are doing so to please the enemies of Islam.

And knowing you from your previous posts, I assume you are doing to just to defame those men who are in trenches right now protecting their land from invasion and opression.

MazloomyarMaseed
05-10-2010, 06:46 AM
But the problem is, those guys fighting in the trenches may have another different objective than those who truely fight. We witnessed this in chechnya when, Nationalists first fought but then arab wahabis entered the scence and divided the cause and then turned chechen against chehcne which led to a mass diversion towards the russian side. As majority of chechens are sufi, they felt threatened to an Wahabi invasion of their land.

That is just my opinion

Badlun
08-26-2013, 12:52 AM
Good approach to resolve the menace of terrorism and militancy

MINGORA, Aug 23: The army has rehabilitated 60 more former militants after they renounced militancy and underwent a three months training in different trades at the ‘Mishal centre for de-radicalisation’ in Phetaam area of Swat.

According to a news release issued on the occasion, the army has begun a de-radicalisation programme for 1,196 local people arrested for involvement in militancy.
Of them, 1,189 have undergone a three months training in various fields before reintegrating with the society.
http://dawn.com/news/1037920/60-former-militants-rehabilitated

Badlun
08-29-2013, 01:11 AM
One of the cause of terrorism is extremism and Saudi is a state sponsoring extremism and terrorism.

I found it very surprizing

August 27, 2013
Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria
By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers
A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin (http://eng.kremlin.ru/) to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (http://mil.ru/) is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.
According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan) who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html) during the Winter Olympics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics) scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia.
Lebanese newspaper As-Safir confirmed this amazing threat against Russia saying that Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord by stating: “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us.” (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html)
Prince Bandar went on to say that Chechens operating in Syria were a pressure tool that could be switched on an off. “These groups do not scare us. We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role in Syria’s political future.” (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html)
London’s The Telegraph News Service further reported today that Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria, an offer Putin replied to by saying “Our stance on Assad will never change. We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters” (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html) [Putin said referring to footage showing a Jihadist rebel eating the heart and liver of a Syrian soldier HERE (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/video-syrian-rebel-cuts-out-soldiers-heart-and-eats-it-nsfw/)], and which Prince Bandar in turn warned that there can be “no escape from the military option” (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html) if Russia declines the olive branch.
Critical to note, and as we had previously reported on in our 28 January 2013 report “Obama Plan For World War III Stuns Russia (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1652.htm),” the Federal Security Services (FSB (http://www.fsb.ru/)) confirmed the validity of the released hacked emails of the British based defence company, Britam Defence that stunningly warned the Obama regime was preparing to unleash a series of attacks against both Syria and Iran in a move Russian intelligence experts warned could very well cause World War III.
According to this FSB report, Britam Defence, one of the largest private mercenary forces in the world, was the target of a “massive hack” of its computer files by an “unknown state sponsored entity” this past January who then released a number of critical emails between its top two executives, founder Philip Doughty and his Business Development Director David Goulding.
The two most concerning emails between Doughty and Goulding, this report says, states that the Obama regime has approved a “false flag” attack in Syria using chemical weapons, and that Britam has been approved to participate in the West’s warn on Iran, and as we can read:
Email 1: Phil, We’ve got a new offer. It’s about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington. We’ll have to deliver a CW (chemical weapon) to Homs (Syria), a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have. They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record. Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion? Kind regards David (http://www.cyberwarnews.info/reports/a-look-into-the-britam-defence-data-leak-files/)
Email 2: Phil, Please see attached details of preparatory measures concerning the Iranian issue. Participation of Britam in the operation is confirmed by the Saudis. (http://www.cyberwarnews.info/reports/a-look-into-the-britam-defence-data-leak-files/)
With the events now spiraling out of control in Syria, and London’s Independent News Service now reporting that Prince Bandar is “pushing for war,” (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-the-saudi-connection-the-prince-with-close-ties-to-washington-at-the-heart-of-the-push-for-war-8785049.html?printService=print) Russian foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich further warned the West today by stating, “Attempts to bypass the Security Council, once again to create artificial groundless excuses for a military intervention in the region are fraught with new suffering in Syria and catastrophic consequences for other countries of the Middle East and North Africa.” (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-crisis-cameron-recalls-parliament-to-vote-on-response-as-russia-warns-of-catastrophic-consequences-of-military-intervention-8785140.html)
Heedless of Russian warnings which have fallen on deaf ears (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-russias-warning-falls-on-deaf-ears-as-britain-and-us-prepare-to-bomb-8785043.html), however, British Prime Minister David Cameron this morning recalled the British Parliament to vote on attacking Syria (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-crisis-cameron-recalls-parliament-to-vote-on-response-as-russia-warns-of-catastrophic-consequences-of-military-intervention-8785140.html) as the Obama regime abruptly cancelled (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57600192/source-u.s-postpones-meeting-with-russia-about-syria/) their meeting with Russia scheduled for tomorrow on finding a path to peace for Syria, and the West begins its plans to attack the Syrian nation “within days.” (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/27/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE97K0EL20130827)
As Syria itself has warned that should it be attacked by the West there will be “global chaos,” (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57600101/fearing-a-u.s-strike-syria-warns-of-global-chaos/) the Western peoples themselves have not been told of the fact that on 17 May 2013, Putin ordered Russian military forces to “immediately move” (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1683.htm) from Local War to Regional War operational status and to be “fully prepared” (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1683.htm) to expand to Large-Scale War should either the US or EU enter into the Syrian Civil War, a situation they are still in at this very hour.
With Putin’s previous order, and as we had reported on in our 17 May report “Russia Issues “All-Out War” Alert Over Syria (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1681.htm),” and now combined with his new ordering of massive retaliatory strikes against Saudi Arabia, any attack on Syria is viewed by Russia as being an attack on itself.
And as we had previously explained in great detail, the fight over Syria, being led by Saudi Arabia and Qatar and their lap-dog Western allies, has but one single objective: To break Russia’s hold on the European Union natural gas market which a pipeline through Syria would accomplish, and as reported by London’s Financial Times News Service this past June:
“The tiny gas-rich state of Qatar has spent as much as $3bn over the past two years supporting the rebellion in Syria, far exceeding any other government, but is now being nudged aside by Saudi Arabia as the prime source of arms to rebels. (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed)
The cost of Qatar’s intervention, its latest push to back an Arab revolt, amounts to a fraction of its international investment portfolio. But its financial support for the revolution that has turned into a vicious civil war dramatically overshadows western backing for the opposition. (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed)
Qatar [also] has proposed a gas pipeline from the Gulf to Turkey in a sign the emirate is considering a further expansion of exports from the world's biggest gasfield after it finishes an ambitious programme to more than double its capacity to produce liquefied natural gas (LNG).” (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/mystery-sponsor-weapons-and-money-syrian-rebels-revealed)
And in what is, perhaps, the most unimaginable cause to start World War III over Syria was noted by Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Aleksandr Lukashevich who said this past week: “We’re getting more new evidence that this criminal act was of a provocative nature,” he stressed. “In particular, there are reports circulating on the Internet, in particular that the materials of the incident and accusations against government troops had been posted for several hours before the so-called attack. Thus, it was a pre-planned action.” (http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-prepared-advance-901/)
For the West to have so sloppily engineered yet another “false flag” attack to justify a war where they posted the videos of this so-called chemical weapons attack a full day before it was said to occur is the height of arrogance and disdain, but which their sleep-walking citizens, yet again, will fall for as they have done so many times in the past.

(http://www.moneynews.com/Outbrain/billionaires-dump-economist-stock/2012/08/29/id/450265?PROMO_CODE=FE8A-1)
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1699.htm

Badlun
09-05-2013, 10:49 PM
Most wanted terrorist captured from hotel in Pakistan (http://dawn.com/news/1040288/most-wanted-terrorist-captured-from-hotel-in-pakistan)



http://dawn.com/news/1040288/most-wanted-terrorist-captured-from-hotel-in-pakistan/2

very very interesting..........so real although satire

Badlun
09-10-2013, 10:03 PM
89% Pakistanis say suicide bombing is 'never justified': PEW report (http://tribune.com.pk/story/602460/89-pakistanis-say-suicide-bombing-is-never-justified-pew-report/)



A new survey (http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/) conducted by ‘Pew Research Center’ has found that as many as 89% of Pakistanis currently believe suicide bombings or other acts of violence targeting civilians are “never justified”. Another two percent stated they sometimes can be justified, while one percent stated they are “often” justified.
The survey reports opinions from 11 Muslim countries from face-to-face interviews of 8, 989 Muslims conducted during March 3 to April 7, 2013, across Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia and Turkey.
“Across 11 Muslim publics surveyed by the Pew Research Center, a median of 67% say they are somewhat or very concerned about Islamic extremism. In five countries – Pakistan, Jordan, Tunisia, Turkey and Indonesia – Muslim worries about extremism have increased in the past year.”
http://pullquotesandexcerpts.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/pew-survey-pic-1.jpg
With respect to Pakistan, Pew reports overwhelmingly negative views of suicide bombing.
“Indeed, about three-quarters or more in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%), say suicide bombings or other acts of violence that target civilians are never justified.”
It also states that currently, an estimated 67% of Pakistanis are ‘concerned’ about the threat of Islamic extremism, which is an increase, compared with 58% in 2012.
The survey further says:
“Although substantial percentages in some countries do think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified – including a 62% majority of Palestinian Muslims, overall support for violence in the name of Islam has declined among Muslim publics during the past decade.
On its research on the various pro-Islamic militant groups operating across the world, the survey yields:
“The Taliban are viewed negatively by a median of 51% of Muslims in the countries polled. Hezbollah and Hamas fare little better. Hezbollah, in particular, has seen its support slip in key Middle Eastern countries, including a 38 percentage point drop in favorable views among Egyptian Muslims since 2007.”
Islamic Extremism
Elsewhere on the globe, concern about Islamic extremism varied from country to country.
“In Indonesia, the Muslim public is evenly split: 48% concerned vs. 48% unconcerned. Turkey, meanwhile, is the only country surveyed where at least half of Muslims (51%) say they are not worried about Islamic extremism.”
http://pullquotesandexcerpts.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/pew-survey-2.jpg
“In Tunisia, six-in-ten Muslims are now very concerned, up from 42% saying the same a year ago…in the Palestinian territories, the proportion of Muslims worried about extremism has declined 14 percentage points since 2011, the last time the question was asked there.”
Suicide Bombing
In some countries, substantial minorities of Muslims say attacks on civilians are at least sometimes justified to defend Islam from its enemies; in the Palestinian territories, a majority of Muslims hold this view.
http://pullquotesandexcerpts.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/pew-survey-3.jpg
Half or more of Muslims in most countries surveyed say that suicide bombing and other acts of violence that target civilians can never be justified in the name of Islam. In Malaysia, however, roughly a quarter of Muslims (27%) take the view that attacks on civilians are sometimes or often justified.
More importantly, the report indicates that support for suicide bombing is not correlated with religious devoutness.
“Generally, Muslims who say they pray five times per day are no more likely to support targeting civilians to protect Islam than those who pray less often. The only exception is the Palestinian territories, where 66% of Muslims who pray five times per day say suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified versus 49% of those who pray less than five times per day.”
Extremist Groups
Overall, views of extremist groups are negative across the Muslim publics surveyed. A median of about a third or fewer have a positive view of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Hamas, or Hezbollah. And in no country polled do any of these organizations receive majority Muslim support.
In Pakistan, most of the candidates surveyed offered no opinion on this front, though amongst those who did, most people were against the groups.
http://pullquotesandexcerpts.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/pew-survey-4.jpg
Al Qaeda
46% Pakistanis are against the organisation whereas 13% are in favour of it, with 41% choosing not to offer an opinion.
However, in Palestine, positive ratings of Al Qaeda have ticked up seven percentage points since 2011 among Muslims (from 28% to 35% favorable).
Hamas
72% Pakistanis did not offer an opinion, and 16% of the remaining ones thumbed Hamas down. In the Palestinian territories, opinions of Hamas are mixed, with 45% of Muslims viewing the group unfavorably, compared with 48% who say they have a favorable view.
“Since 2007, support for Hamas has also declined among Muslims in Pakistan (-31), Jordan (-20), Malaysia (-20), Indonesia (-19), and Turkey (-10).”
Hezbollah
Muslim attitudes toward Hezbollah are mixed in Senegal, Tunisia, and Indonesia, with many offering no opinion.
In Palestine, 43% are in favour of the group with 49% against it.
In Pakistan, again, 72% recorded no opinion. 13% said they were not in favour of the group against a 15% who said they were.
The Taliban
A median of 51% of all Muslims have an unfavorable view of the Taliban, the Islamic fundamentalist movement almost exclusively based in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Majorities of Muslims in Lebanon (92%), Jordan (82%), Egypt (70%), Turkey (70%), and Pakistan (65%) have a negative opinion of the group. About half of Muslims in Nigeria (51%), Tunisia (50%), and the Palestinian territories (50%) share this view.

Read more: mustread (http://tribune.com.pk/mustread) , Terror (http://tribune.com.pk/terror)

Badlun
09-18-2013, 12:41 AM
http://dawn.com/news/1043515/zawahiri-urges-restraint-in-first-guidelines-for-jihad

gadoonwal
09-18-2013, 01:11 AM
why there is no terror in Punjab and interior sind?
Dose terrorists hate only pakhtuns?
Pakistani media is playing dirty game for the last 13 years and more.

Friend
09-18-2013, 05:59 AM
The main cause is injustice on individual level and collective level.
Today you start giving cheap and quick justice to the common man, tommorrow you will see that 90% of turmoil will vanish. This is gauranteed.

Tjanaparh
09-18-2013, 06:18 AM
To resolve any betterment You need to be united.
Otherwise things will continue always that way.
people here say that nationalism is bad, but if you complain on problems of your nation and then don't see your nations problems as a priority how can you solve any problem.
No foreigner will have pure intentions with You.
Be it USA or Saudi.
History repets this every period and in so many different places, that it is quiet easy to understand.

Shamlawar Khurasani
09-18-2013, 07:10 AM
To resolve any betterment You need to be united.
Otherwise things will continue always that way.
people here say that nationalism is bad, but if you complain on problems of your nation and then don't see your nations problems as a priority how can you solve any problem.
No foreigner will have pure intentions with You.
Be it USA or Saudi.
History repets this every period and in so many different places, that it is quiet easy to understand.

Caring for your country and its future does not mean we should become nationalists.

It is part of our faith as Muslims to care for the well being of those around us. This is why most practicing Muslims from Afghanistan in the West are envolved in charities where they invest in education, healthcare and other services bypassing the corrupt criminal Western international organizations.

Yet the Nationalists apply for jobs as translators for US army, they receive funds from USAID to promote corruption, they drive around in expensive SUV's and when you question their methods, they will tell you that since you are religious, you are brainwashed, and therefore you don't really care about your country.

So in reality, nationalism means being corrupt, shallow and cunning. Nationalists use the sentiments of people to rob them.

Tjanaparh
09-18-2013, 09:17 AM
@Shamlawar
First of all, thank You for your answer!
I have a question for you: What is in your eyes a nationalist? Can you answer me in a detailed way, so i may better understand You?

I repeat perhaps myself saying it, learning English we learned Azgainakan (armenian word, where azg= nation, tribal union, azgain=national,tribal, ethnic (for example Folk music= azgain yerazhshtutyun), azgainakan= azgain + suffix -akan => wordly "nationalic", "tribalic", translated as "nationalist").
Since that moment i use nationalist exatly in the same sense interchangebly with our native word.


So if i talk about nationalists I don't mean an organization in particular way, because same way we have parties that pose as nationalists, but are in reality all the opposite.
And the people You described are allso al the opposite, they are antinational if they steal from their people .
But there are same way people who say to present faith but do the same and are same way false and use sentiments.
To ask me i see no difference in someone who uses faith or national unity for personal gains, and those people are quiet a lot.

I don't think You have the right to accuse all of a different way of thinking being on payment of USA, and same way nobody can accuse all religious people of the same or opposite.
single people have qualities, and i met different people from both categories.
Isn'T it more important to exclude all such people and unite despit your differences?
Also, what are SUV?
I have to quit now, so i limit myself on this posting!
Sorry for interrupting

Shamlawar Khurasani
09-18-2013, 10:15 AM
@Shamlawar
First of all, thank You for your answer!
I have a question for you: What is in your eyes a nationalist? Can you answer me in a detailed way, so i may better understand You?

I repeat perhaps myself saying it, learning English we learned Azgainakan (armenian word, where azg= nation, tribal union, azgain=national,tribal, ethnic (for example Folk music= azgain yerazhshtutyun), azgainakan= azgain + suffix -akan => wordly "nationalic", "tribalic", translated as "nationalist").
Since that moment i use nationalist exatly in the same sense interchangebly with our native word.


So if i talk about nationalists I don't mean an organization in particular way, because same way we have parties that pose as nationalists, but are in reality all the opposite.
And the people You described are allso al the opposite, they are antinational if they steal from their people .
But there are same way people who say to present faith but do the same and are same way false and use sentiments.
To ask me i see no difference in someone who uses faith or national unity for personal gains, and those people are quiet a lot.

I don't think You have the right to accuse all of a different way of thinking being on payment of USA, and same way nobody can accuse all religious people of the same or opposite.
single people have qualities, and i met different people from both categories.
Isn'T it more important to exclude all such people and unite despit your differences?
Also, what are SUV?
I have to quit now, so i limit myself on this posting!
Sorry for interrupting

Nationalism as an ideology is a product of enlightenment in Europe. It is primarily based on the ideas of Jean Jaque Rousseau.

it is popularized by marxist and romanticist authors through literature.

I am in class now. I will reply later.

Manzareh
09-18-2013, 10:23 AM
Badlun, try to be unbiased, maybe you will gain some credibility, we all know the western and secularist involvement in global terrorism and we are aware of their role in terrorist activity in the past and present, yet you try to smoke screen these issues and ignore.

Shamlawar Khurasani
09-18-2013, 03:14 PM
@Shamlawar
First of all, thank You for your answer!
I have a question for you: What is in your eyes a nationalist? Can you answer me in a detailed way, so i may better understand You?

I repeat perhaps myself saying it, learning English we learned Azgainakan (armenian word, where azg= nation, tribal union, azgain=national,tribal, ethnic (for example Folk music= azgain yerazhshtutyun), azgainakan= azgain + suffix -akan => wordly "nationalic", "tribalic", translated as "nationalist").
Since that moment i use nationalist exatly in the same sense interchangebly with our native word.


So if i talk about nationalists I don't mean an organization in particular way, because same way we have parties that pose as nationalists, but are in reality all the opposite.
And the people You described are allso al the opposite, they are antinational if they steal from their people .
But there are same way people who say to present faith but do the same and are same way false and use sentiments.
To ask me i see no difference in someone who uses faith or national unity for personal gains, and those people are quiet a lot.

I don't think You have the right to accuse all of a different way of thinking being on payment of USA, and same way nobody can accuse all religious people of the same or opposite.
single people have qualities, and i met different people from both categories.
Isn'T it more important to exclude all such people and unite despit your differences?
Also, what are SUV?
I have to quit now, so i limit myself on this posting!
Sorry for interrupting



Nationalists are generally a particular group of people who emphasize Western values and Western concepts and ideas.

They like to depict Afghanistan as a nation-state. Nation-states are modern Western concepts. Europeans have gone through a process where their society was homogenized. In most European societies there is only one or two languages. Ethnic and regional differences are down to a minimum and most importantly, they are secular.

In third world countries, an average country consists of a dozen different ethnic groups with different languages, ethnicties, customs and even physical appearance.

Nation-states in the third world are a product of decolonization. The colonial powers have divided people into different countries.

So the suggestion that we can have a Western type of nationalism in our society is absurd and ridiculous.

The Nationalist will argue that eventhough nation-state and nationalism are Western ideas, we still do need them.

But they don't have any evidence that the existence of a nation-state or a nationalist ideology contributes to betterment of our social and economic conditions. Its merely ideology and wishful thinking. No scientific facts. Despite their attempt to discredit religious beliefs for being irrational, the cause of their movement is based on dogma.

Since they have no evidence to convince us that their imported ideas work, they resort to poetry, romanticism and other superficial and absurd matters to make a case. Notice how most secular nationalists are primarily engaged in music, dancing and other matters that have absolutely no link to economic and social progress.

The real reason why some people are prone to become nationalists and secularists is not sheer love and affection for their own respective community. But rather, the reason is in their individual discontent with the reality.

They see fair skinned rich white Europeans possessing all of the worlds wealth and power while they are poor, illiterate and helpless.

They assume, if they mimic all the exterior aspects of Western society such as promiscuity, dancing, music, shallow and superficial philosophic rant etc, they will somehow redeem themselves from their reality into a better state.

So in reality their problem is material. But since it is convenient and pleasant to romanticize everything, they emphasize the sentimental aspects of their heritage as a disguise. What they are really after is, wealth, money and power.

If you study the history of Afghanistan, the secular Nationalists have always sided with the invaders, the divisive elements and open enemies of our religion in exchange for power, money, status and perks.

SUV is a Sports Utility Vehicle. Its a large 4x4 luxury car like Toyota Landcruiser, Mercedes ML, BMW x5 etc.

RevolutionThroughReason
09-18-2013, 04:58 PM
Caring for your country and its future does not mean we should become nationalists.

It is part of our faith as Muslims to care for the well being of those around us. This is why most practicing Muslims from Afghanistan in the West are envolved in charities where they invest in education, healthcare and other services bypassing the corrupt criminal Western international organizations.

Yet the Nationalists apply for jobs as translators for US army, they receive funds from USAID to promote corruption, they drive around in expensive SUV's and when you question their methods, they will tell you that since you are religious, you are brainwashed, and therefore you don't really care about your country.

So in reality, nationalism means being corrupt, shallow and cunning. Nationalists use the sentiments of people to rob them.

Exactly this is why I don't trust people like Badlun or Toramana; they seem to have a corrupt agenda attached to everything.

khushal
09-18-2013, 05:30 PM
nationalism is a divider of people plus nationalist tend to identify with their own ethnicity vs a common idea that could benefit all people so therefore nationalism tends to be selfish and not long lasting. nationalism in Europe is actually an obstacle to unity vs european interference as the obstacle to unity in the middle east and south and central asia.

Kushan Prince
09-18-2013, 07:26 PM
nationalism is a divider of people plus nationalist tend to identify with their own ethnicity vs a common idea that could benefit all people so therefore nationalism tends to be selfish and not long lasting. nationalism in Europe is actually an obstacle to unity vs european interference as the obstacle to unity in the middle east and south and central asia.

But there are a lot of pashtun nationalists though.

Badlun
09-18-2013, 09:43 PM
Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?
Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?

If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

How you can merge nation states like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India into one unit?

For us US, Saudi and China all are outsiders. No terrorism and no outsiders.

The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.

This way each unit in the shape of state and nation will be strong which will contribute towards global peace, security and prosperity.

khushal
09-19-2013, 12:48 AM
Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?
Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?

If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

How you can merge nation states like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India into one unit?

For us US, Saudi and China all are outsiders. No terrorism and no outsiders.

The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.

This way each unit in the shape of state and nation will be strong which will contribute towards global peace, security and prosperity.

If you look at it from a secular point of view, ever since Alexander, humanity has been in a struggle to somehow unite itself. Afghanistan, Pakistan and India was one unit for centuries and very prosperous, it were the brits who divided it into nation states and have been weak, unstable and unprosperous. UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, and Saudi are states ruled by tyrants who are in power because of outside support which again the brits divided them into nation states. Historically, they were one unit.

Your intentionally being dishonest. your intentionally disregarding 2000 years of history before WW1. Your under the impression that people are naturally evil like you and hate each other. In reality, people actually want to llive in peace and want to work with one another, they want to trade with one another and progress in balance with nature.

Shamlawar Khurasani
09-19-2013, 06:01 AM
Exactly this is why I don't trust people like Badlun or Toramana; they seem to have a corrupt agenda attached to everything.

Before you joined this forum, there was a guy by the name of Jan Assakzai. He is a former BBC journalist and an outspoken Nationalist. He even wrote articles on this forum defending nationalism.

He was offered a job as the official spokesman of the most corrupt and immoral politician in Pakistan, Mullah Diesel (Falzurrahman). He took the job and now he is in service of Pashtun nationalists worst enemy.

We have a classic example of what nationalists are all about in this forum.

They are indeed corrupt, and after money and power.

Shamlawar Khurasani
09-19-2013, 06:09 AM
Then what is substitute of nationalism and nation state?


I was explaining why nationalism as an ideology is alien and impractical.

Besides, an Islamic khilafah is the ultimate goal of Muslims. It is not something we can achieve right at this moment.


Will you dismantle Afghanistan , a state of Afghans and will merge it with some hypothetical Umma, or caliphate or world state or what other utopia of internationalism or idealism?


Utopia means no place. SOmething that does not exist and never existed.

Ummah means nation.

Fact: Afghanistan is part of the Ummah because its 99% Muslim except a few Hindus and apostates like yourself.

Khilafah existed and Khilafah is the way Muslim ummah was governed for almost 14 centuries while modern nation-states are a modern concept from early 20th century. Before that, we did not have nation-states in Muslim world.


If UAE, Qatar and Kuwait want their own states and do not want merger with their big brother Saudi then how can we think of some other conglomerate , federation, confederation , union or merger of nation states.

Merging is not what we want. We want a central Muslim authority to govern all nations. Its not about what you or what a Saudi or Qatari wants. Its what Islam prescribes for Muslims.


The only way is decentralization, deregulation, devolution and organizing nations, societies, communities, linguistic groups, ethnic groups in the unit of state and then having economic and political unions on the pattern of UN, EU and ASEAN.


We can continue endlessly dividing people and allowing divisive elements like yourself to cause instability. Division causes weakness. Unity is strength.

Badlun
09-20-2013, 12:36 AM
Human civilization is progressing not retrogressing. Gone are the days of kingdoms, caliphates, empires and sultanates. As democracy is today the ideal kind of government similarly nation state is the ideal unit. Human beings are at the climax of development where we have democracy and nation states.

Now as individual is more important than a tribe similarly nation is more important than groupings like Umma, Christendom and transnational brotherhoods. Now the trend is democracy in a nation state. We cannot go few centuries back.

As now we do not use camels for transport but use aeroplanes, similalry now the norm is democarcy an dnation states not religious groupings . One reason of terrorism is the religious extremism of Pashtuns. More nationalism less terrorism is the formula.

Badlun
09-20-2013, 12:11 PM
For the real causes of terrorism please see these highly interesting articles

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=705862&posted=1#post705862

What a truth!
If Saudi rulers had more brains, they might be formidably dangerous. Even with lackluster intelligence assets, they are already causing enough havoc and bloodshed across the Middle East and North Africa regions, pouring millions-of-dollars-worth of weaponry into Al Qaeda and other Takfiri networks that are destroying once proud civilizations in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Libya through nihilistic sectarianism.
And if the Saudi paymasters of terrorism could have it all their way, they would salivate at the chance of extending this destruction to Iran - the Shia power that they fear as their nemesis.

I am astonished why Afghanistan and Pakistan are not mentioned here. Saudis are destroying Pashtunwali and Pashtun nationalism by their extremist ideology.

Badlun
10-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Pakistan bans three extremist outfits, on orders from China

Pakistan bans three extremist outfits, on orders from China – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/621400/pakistan-bans-three-extremist-outfits-on-orders-from-china/)

Badlun
12-12-2013, 10:46 AM
RIYADH: Saudi Arabia's grand mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah al-Sheikh branded suicide bombers as "criminals" who will go to "hell," Al-Hayat daily reported Thursday.

Suicide bombings are "great crimes" and bombers are "criminals who rush themselves to hell by their actions," Sheikh said during a lecture in Riyadh a few days ago, according to Al-Hayat.

Sheikh described suicide bombers as "robbed of their minds... who have been used (as tools) to destroy themselves and societies."

In February 2010, Sheikh denounced terrorism as un-Islamic and condemned the killing of civilians, saying such attacks have nothing to do with the Muslim religion.
Saudi grand mufti calls suicide bombers ´criminals´ - thenews.com.pk (http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-130036-Saudi-grand-mufti-calls-suicide-bombers-%C2%B4criminals%C2%B4)