View Full Version : My Complaint


MazloomyarMaseed
05-09-2010, 07:57 AM
Why is that the Anti American view thread was closed by Qrratugai, I understand she is a Westernised feminist who I ve noticed always likes to insult Pashtuns weaknesses but defends the barbaric imperialist Western nations such as America and NATO on the forums. I feel our freedom of speech is violent here as NON-Pashtuns such as Imb goes around calling pashtuns as primitive and strone age people then people such as Qrratugai who is suppose to be unbiased but clearly demostrated her true intentions by oppressing our view about American society.

This is clear hipocrasy, Qrratugai likes to post her views on Taliban brutality and crimes but when we post a article about Americans abusing little girls and boys and doing immoral acts then our threads get closed but it seems like Qrratugais comment was removed but I remmeber what she wrote our America is such a advanced nation and we are not so we have no right criticsing it.

I suggest Modarator also go though the comments by IMB and you will notice a pattern of insults towards Pashtuns.

Insulting Pashtuns should not be tolarated in this forum.

I wish to have the American thread reopened or we will open a new one but with a different title.

Dera manana

Master Khan
05-09-2010, 08:31 AM
Yaara Munga so oko.
We never get get our freedom of speech, because if we do then thats it, we are terrorist.

*Mahzala*
05-09-2010, 09:27 AM
Makeen Brother,

Assalamualaikum

I just wanted to let you know that the complaint you have made shouldn't be directed at Qrratugai. In fact I was the one who locked it - temporarily. I am not going to go into detail (as I have made myslf clear already), but as a note to other members, remember these are part of forums rules and please abide by them.

As you very well know and have seen from the threads that come out, this site supports and promotes freedom of speech. There are no such constraints. In saying that, I would like to remind you that any complaint you have about moderators or the Admin should be directed towards moderators or the Admin in a Private Message and not as a public thread to give others the opportunity to also criticise and accuse with baseless information. Also threatening someone to go about doing things you want to be done is not the way. Be patient, things happen for a reason. If you have a request, with respect ask for it. If you have a question, also within certain boundaries, feel free to ask. We are here to help and provide a comfortable and open space for all members and we respect that everyone is entitled to express their views. However all of this within certain guidelines.

You have a right to criticise, however, if you feel Pashtuns should not be insulted, every other person, whether Pahstun or not feels they too deserve that basic right. We are not a superior race as many of us like to think. Allah says He does not look to your wealth, your beauty, which nation you come from or which tribe you are born into. He looks to our hearts, our actions and our deeds. These are the basics of our Deen we forget and the lack of these basic morals and values gives way to non-believers to ridicule us. You want respect, you earn it by giving others the same treatment.

Your suggestions are being looked into (before you made the request). Be patient, everything happens for a reason. As for my clarification; it may make the rest of your post quite irrelevant as Qrratugai was not responsible. So, I hope this answers your questions. If not, feel free to PM :)

شمله ور خراساني
05-09-2010, 06:25 PM
I agree with Makeen.

I think the forum moderators should not allow non Muslims to come and insult our religion and culture and call us Pashtuns names.

OH, and why was the thread about America deleted? All it was, was a good collection of news articles. Why are news articles offensive?

Master Khan
05-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Yaara da Chamchatoop zama khowas nady.
Di zai zamung bezati pakar nada.

*Mahzala*
05-09-2010, 06:33 PM
Sangar Brother, the thread was not deleted. It was temporarily closed. And the reasons have been made clear to those involved.

Roshina
05-09-2010, 07:52 PM
Gosh, how I LOVE being the reason people complain so much on here.

However, you know what this means? It actually makes me very proud of PF because it means that you people feel comfortable and free enough to express your thoughts. I don't mind anything you said about me because your claim that Qrratugai was the one who closed the thread was enough for me not to worry about what you said.

I didn't delete or close that thread, as Mesbah has said. I saw the thread yesterday and I didn't know that it was closed (becuase I didn't read closely enough at the bottom where it says "Thread closed"), and so I replied to it. Admin Khan then said that I replied to a closed thread, which is the only reason I then deleted my message in there.

And, MakeenMaseed, I NOW understand why you said what you said regarding your "great suspicion" about me. I was wondering why someone with whom I initially got along so well would make such a despicable comment, KNOWING its consequences. But now, after reading your complaint here, it all makes sense.

Now, allow me to reply to each of your comments.

Why is that the Anti American view thread was closed by Qrratugai,
Again, I wasn't the one to close it. However, as our rules and guidelines constantly tell you, any thread made against an individual, person, religion, etc. will be issued a warning against and may be deleted or closed. BUT! please note that it was the title of the thread AND the many abusive posts in it that caused the closing of the thread.

You see, it said "Americans are Stupid." This is what we do not allow here. There are millions of Americans, and, just as you don't want anyone to say "Muslims are Stupid" or "Pukhtuns are Stupid," you can't say "Americans are stupid" either. The actions of a few, even if it's the "average" person, do not represent the actions/beliefs of an entire nation or race.

This doesn't mean you can't say what you wanna say. But a better way of expressing yourself may have been something like, "Many Americans are ignorant of what goes around the world" or "according to these links/articles/videos, some Americans can be pretty don't know what such and such is ...," etc.

I understand she is a Westernised feminist
Simply a feminist -- no, wait, an Islamic and a Muslim feminist. But I still prefer just a feminist. That's a heavy enough label to carry around, you see, lol. And a damn proud one, too, brother, a damn proud one.


who I ve noticed always likes to insult Pashtuns weaknesses

OMG. Where and when have I done this? I have NEVER insulted Pashtuns. I would never even dare to insult my own self like this. In fact, mind you, I'm a Pashtun before I'm anything else, including a Muslim. When I put my ethnic/Pashtun identity above all of my other identities, why would I ever insult it?

but defends the barbaric imperialist Western nations such as America and NATO on the forums.
Again, when did I ever defend the barbarity of America or any other imperialist state? I'm completely against imperialism and killings along with other forms of violence against anyone. I do not ignore the violence of many American soldiers against Muslims and others, but I also don't ignore the violence committed by Taliban and other Muslim extremists/terrorists against Muslims and others, either. To me, both are the same.

Bro, next time you make such claims against any member, try proving it by directing us to the thread/post in which the member said that, k?

Oh, and by the way ... I personally don't think Americans are stupid. America remains one of the most advanced nations in the world in the sciences and the arts, and this is what I call brain -- it's not "stupidity" at all. Humanity and voluntarism also exist here, on every corner of every city in every state. I'd know -- I live in the U.S. Bush doesn't represent all Americans just as Zardari doesn't represent all Pakistanis, but some of us here seem to believe this is the case, and I find this unfair.

My supporting certain aspects of the U.S. doesn't mean I support its violence or any sort of actions against anyone.

I feel our freedom of speech is violent here ... people such as Qrratugai who is suppose to be unbiased but clearly demostrated her true intentions by oppressing our view about American society.

You are MORE than free to say whatEVER you want, bro. But you're required to use a non-insulting, non-abusive language. You can say the rudest, meanest, most cruel thing in the world to anyone, but if you say it in a smart way, people will actually listen to it and might try to understand your point. So it's HOW you say that matters, not WHAT.

This is clear hipocrasy, Qrratugai likes to post her views on Taliban brutality and crimes

Wrora, I said the Taliban are violent -- and we have ample proof for this claim -- and you said Americans are stupid. What is the similarity between these statements? If I'd said something like, "Pashtuns are violent," I'd be wrooooong, because I can't prove that and no one can: saying Pashtuns are violent means that ALL Pashtuns are violent, which is absolutely untrue. But saying the Taliban are violent is true and can be proved because the Taliban are one group, a violent one.

Anyway, just for those who don't know what we're talking about, lemme give my exact posts about the Taliban.

Well, yes. What good have the Taliban done for our people, or for the world -- or for even a few people? All I've seen is nothing but destruction after destruction after destruction; I've lost uncles and tons of neighbors, butchered in the most cruel, most inhumane manner BY the Taliban, as well. My folks had to flee their homes, as poor as most of them are, and become IDPs only to return to flattened villages (I know of people who got heart attacks right after coming back to Swat to see their houses destroyed). Post-war depression is on the rise among my people, and thousands children have been left orphaned BY the Taliban and breadwinners have been beheaded.

It's not just the Taliban; the army has been no better for the most part.

So, yeah! I'm not exactly sure why I should hold positive thoughts about the Taliban, khorey. Where are you from, if you don't mind my asking? Perhaps you can enlighten me about the Taliban so I don't think so badly of them. I'd be more than happy to be shown a positive aspect of Talibanization, if you really think there is/are any.

Well?

I don't care what the media says. I'm aware of the lack of awareness of the media itself about the people/cultures/religions it attempts to cover.

BUT what I said was, as I said in my post, based entirely on my experiences. ...
Again, it perhaps depends on where you're from and where you live. I'm from Swat, and I have yet to meet someone from/in Swat who supports the Taliban. I have relatives who cringe when their young sons PRAY five times a day or express any love for Islam at all -- all because they fear that these sons might grow to become Taliban.

Oh my! People like ME trying to eliminate our language and culture? LOL. C'mon, that's ridiculous. One of my very first threads on PF was about the preservation of Pashtun culture / Pashtunwali and an attempt to go more into studying and writing about it because there's a lack of literature on Pashtuns from Pashtuns' point of view, khorey.

And our language? I don't know whether to laugh or just stare at your post in amazement, because, whether this means anything to you or not, I avoid using Arabic phrases (like Alhamdulillah, Assalamu alaikum, SubhanAllah, etc.) and Urdu terms (like mehrabani/shukriya, khawand, etc.) just because I think that we have thousands-times-better phrases and terms, equivalents, in Pukhto; why replace them with words from other languages when nothing's wrong with ours?. You're new on PF; as you read more posts of mine, you'll notice this about me, khair dai.

I'd love to talk more about my personal passion and love for and attention to Pukhto, but perhaps I might go too far. But you get the point, and if you don't wanna believe it, that's perfectly all right with me; I don't plan to convince you.

Sure. That's fine with me, but just remember that this is a discussion, so you shouldn't take anything personally. If you beleive that anyone who's against the Taliban is brainwashed, think again and try talking to people who have lost limbs, loved ones, homes, and all possible hope for a future all because of the Taliban (and now the army). ...

And you disagree that the Taliban are harmful to Pukhtuns and to the world. That's fine, too, but then you need good evidence to prove this. I've evidence to prove they're monsters, beasts, and beyond harmful to our culture, heritage, people, and land, and I'll be more than happy to share more evidence with you *from experiences and observations* if you still need more.

Manana.

As you wish. But like I said, you need better evidence that the Taliban are good people or have done/are doing nothing wrong. Otherwise, then avoid being involved in discussions on them because you WILL come across people who will hate the Taliban as much as you might love them.

Moving on...

but when we post a article about Americans abusing little girls and boys and doing immoral acts then our threads get closed but it seems like Qrratugais comment was removed but I remmeber what she wrote our America is such a advanced nation and we are not so we have no right criticsing it.

I did not say that you have no right to criticize it. You have the right to criticize anyone and anything and any country and any group of people you want, provided you use substantial evidence. But it's your language you need to watch. If you don't want people to say something against you and your people, you should not say it against them either. Just as you won't want anyone to say "Pashtuns/Muslims are stupid," you shouldn't say "Americans/etc. are stupid" either.

Here's what I DID say (as a moderator, I have access to my deleted post):

Umm... guys? We don't like it when people generalize about us (whether in a good way or bad way), so why are we doing the same to others? Calling an entire nation "stupid" is going too far. And don't forget that Bush doesn't represent Americans, or all Americans. Perhaps only a portion or two... but not all.

Think about it: How do we feel when the entire world starts hating Islam and Muslims just because of the actions of a few Muslims, say the Taliban?

Anyway, a better way of expressing your thoughts towards America and Americans might be something like:

- Some/many Americans lack general knowledge; here's evidence. (It's better than saying "Americans are stupid.")
- America the country perhaps is not what it appears to be to the world. (It's better than saying "America is the worst country in the world" -- not to mean that anyone here's saying this, though I'm sure some people believe this.)

*Using words like "perhaps" and "appear" and "some" (or "many" or "certain") is more professional, more appealing, more accurate, and more appreciated.

Nonetheless, let's not forget that when it comes to the sciences and arts, America and Americans are among the most advanced. It might not be the average "stupid" American, but it's still people who classify themselves as Americans. Why not let THEM be the representatives of America/Americans? Why let anyone be a representative of anyone, really?

I deleted the above post not because something was wrong with it but because I didn't realize I'd posted in a closed thread. Although I do have the privilege of posting in a closed thread, I wish not to take advantage of it because I don't want other members to feel left out or to feel as though I could post in a thread that was closed to them.

Insulting Pashtuns should not be tolarated in this forum.
It is not just Pashtuns who are not to be insulted on this forum; NO ONE and NO group of people can be insulted on this forum. Period.

We ask you to please forward us links to the posts/threads in which anyone has insulted Pashtuns, and we assure you we'll take care of it.

I wish to have the American thread reopened or we will open a new one but with a different title.

If you're going to try to "prove" that Americans are "stupid," don't bother, wrora. However, if you're gonna try to prove that *some* Americans are whatever you think they are, by all means go ahead -- with evidence.

Roshina
05-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Why do some of us find it SO difficult to use a non-abusive language, guys? :|

I think the forum moderators should not allow non Muslims to come and insult our religion and culture and call us Pashtuns names.

Who has done this? Please always send us links to such posts so that we can respond accordingly.

But if you're referring to the challenges that have been posed towards Muslims, Islam, God, the Quran, and other things related to Islam, then I must say that that's not insulting; it's a mere challenge and remains so as long as no abusive language is used, as long as Islam is not called "stupid" or "the religion of the ignorants," or "a backward religion," and so on. If this has happened, we ask each member to cooperate with us by forwarding us the links to such postings.

Thank you in advance.

Yaara Munga so oko.
We never get get our freedom of speech, because if we do then thats it, we are terrorist.
Who called you a terrorist for speaking up, MasterKhana?

Roshina
05-09-2010, 08:05 PM
Makeen Brother,

I would like to remind you that any complaint you have about moderators or the Admin should be directed towards moderators or the Admin in a Private Message and not as a public thread to give others the opportunity to also criticise and accuse with baseless information. Also threatening someone to go about doing things you want to be done is not the way.
...

You have a right to criticise, however, if you feel Pashtuns should not be insulted, every other person, whether Pahstun or not feels they too deserve that basic right. We are not a superior race as many of us like to think. ... You want respect, you earn it by giving others the same treatment.


Good God, Mesbah! I said the same thing with millions of words!
Thanks for clarifying it all!

شمله ور خراساني
05-09-2010, 08:15 PM
Why do some of us find it SO difficult to use a non-abusive language, guys? :|



Who has done this? Please always send us links to such posts so that we can respond accordingly.

But if you're referring to the challenges that have been posed towards Muslims, Islam, God, the Quran, and other things related to Islam, then I must say that that's not insulting; it's a mere challenge and remains so as long as no abusive language is used, as long as Islam is not called "stupid" or "the religion of the ignorants," or "a backward religion," and so on. If this has happened, we ask each member to cooperate with us by forwarding us the links to such postings.

Thank you in advance.


Who called you a terrorist for speaking up, MasterKhana?

So in other words, you decide for us what is insulting to Islam and Pashtuns?

Levanaye Zalmaye
05-09-2010, 08:51 PM
I think the forum moderators should not allow non Muslims to come and insult our religion and culture and call us Pashtuns names.

Here are some cold facts:

- We are Pashtuns.

- Censorship is backwards.

- No one insults your religion. What you see is criticism - substantiated, justified criticism.

- The whole point of a forum is to discuss ideas regardless of how many times a minute it breaks your heart and hurts your feelings.

شمله ور خراساني
05-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Here are some cold facts:

- We are Pashtuns.

- Censorship is backwards.

- No one insults your religion. What you see is criticism - substantiated, justified criticism.

- The whole point of a forum is to discuss ideas regardless of how many times a minute it breaks your heart and hurts your feelings.

What does "we are Pashtunss" mean? haha

NO! Nobody is allowed to post insulting comments regarding our religion and culture. No where.

Not on forums not on tv no where.

If you, Pir ROkhan and that clown imb702 something posts anything insulting calling our religious practices stupid or backward or anything of that kind, then censorship is necessary.

And moderators MUST act. If they don't then this beats the whole purpose of "pashtunforums" since Pashtuns are 99% Muslims. And Pashtuns do not allow people to insult them.

Roshina
05-09-2010, 09:46 PM
NO! Nobody is allowed to post insulting comments regarding our religion and culture. No where.

Not on forums not on tv no where.

Like Levaney said, it's not "insults"; it's challenges and criticism. What is wrong with that? Whoever HAS insulted Islam or Muslims or Pashtuns or you as an individual, however, you should let the moderators know.


If you, Pir ROkhan and that clown imb702 something posts anything insulting calling our religious practices stupid or backward or anything of that kind, then censorship is necessary.
They're not allowed to call anyone backward or stupid or anything of that kind, so if they've done so, they're broken PF rules/guidelines. You need to direct us to each of their posts in which they've insulted Islam/Muslims/etc.

And moderators MUST act. If they don't then this beats the whole purpose of "pashtunforums" since Pashtuns are 99% Muslims. And Pashtuns do not allow people to insult them.
As we've said elsewhere many times, this Forum doesn't allow insults towards ANYONE or ANY religion or ANY race, not just Muslims and Pashtuns and Islam. We don't allow insults towards Islam not necessarily because 99% of us are Muslims, but because we don't allow insults towards any religion and race and groups and individuals and deities. Everyone's free to CHALLENGE a religion or its followers, though, because that's not an insult -- or at least it shouldn't be. But no one has the right to call you or a religion or anyone else stupid or ignorant or backward and such. This applies to everyone.

Respect has to be earned; it doesn't come with being a Pashtun or Muslim or a woman/man or anything else. It's disrespect that is not allowed on this forum.

Nokia_Apridy
05-10-2010, 04:33 AM
Makeena Zma sra pa Zwab na wi

za walay wayargam haga User

la chay Zwab warkwal shay nu bya Sa khbra da ? chay insult wi ki

Khbra khu ba Khbra khalsa wa ka sanga ?..

MazloomyarMaseed
05-10-2010, 06:00 AM
Well...I do appologise for questioning qurragatai as it was very unislamic of me and Sangar roara did advised me that it is sin to question ones sexuality etc. So May allah forgive me and Qurtagai as well.

Anyway, IMB has insulted pashtuns very time, he disagrees with everybodys posts with some sneeky insult towards the commenter.

IMB has many times called Pashtuns as a primitive, stone age, cave dwellers and yet members here defend him very strongly.

The Anti American thread was directed to American hipocrasy, if it was Racial then i would accept the closing of the thread but American are not a face, well Native Indians are but we know what happened to them.

Why doesnt the moderator, do a comment search on IMB and you will find many insults.

Deera manana

tor_khan
05-10-2010, 06:14 AM
Members here are part of the forum and their vigilance will help shape the forum so that this is a place where relevant issues can safely be discussed according to the standards that we set.

If a posting is intended to be a racial put down on a group or an individual, then that needs to be clearly reported.

Al Hanif
03-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Why is that the Anti American view thread was closed by Qrratugai, I understand she is a Westernised feminist who I ve noticed always likes to insult Pashtuns weaknesses but defends the barbaric imperialist Western nations such as America and NATO on the forums. I feel our freedom of speech is violent here as NON-Pashtuns such as Imb goes around calling pashtuns as primitive and strone age people then people such as Qrratugai who is suppose to be unbiased but clearly demostrated her true intentions by oppressing our view about American society.

This is clear hipocrasy, Qrratugai likes to post her views on Taliban brutality and crimes but when we post a article about Americans abusing little girls and boys and doing immoral acts then our threads get closed but it seems like Qrratugais comment was removed but I remmeber what she wrote our America is such a advanced nation and we are not so we have no right criticsing it.

I suggest Modarator also go though the comments by IMB and you will notice a pattern of insults towards Pashtuns.

Insulting Pashtuns should not be tolarated in this forum.

I wish to have the American thread reopened or we will open a new one but with a different title.

Dera manana

Dear Lord...

how did I get here ?