View Full Version : Challenge to 'militant mullah'


Free Thinker
05-04-2010, 05:07 AM
Hello, I'm interested in having a small discussion with you. Before we begin, I would like you to answer the following questions:

If you say that everything was created by Allah (God), then who created Allah?

Why does Allah not show Himself?

If you say that Allah is all powerful, can do everything, then can He make a rock so big that He can't even lift?

Can Allah make another Allah exactly as Himself?

Why only one Eternal and Everlasting?

Why Allah? Why not flying spaghetti monster or invisible flying pink unicorn?

Free Thinker
05-04-2010, 05:26 AM
You had made a ridiculous claim that not being 100% certain, implies doubts pertaining to ones scientific findings. Can you be 100% certain about your religious faith?

Free Thinker
05-04-2010, 05:28 AM
The Universe is not created nor will die, that is why we don't need to search for God and there is no absolute nature, everything is a dream.

Son of Mountains
05-04-2010, 05:54 AM
Hello, I'm interested in having a small discussion with you. Before we begin, I would like you to answer the following questions:

If you say that everything was created by Allah (God), then who created Allah?

Why does Allah not show Himself?

If you say that Allah is all powerful, can do everything, then can He make a rock so big that He can't even lift?

Can Allah make another Allah exactly as Himself?

Why only one Eternal and Everlasting?

Why Allah? Why not flying spaghetti monster or invisible flying pink unicorn?

Allah cannot be understood philosophically.....but you can meet and see Him spiritually!

Roshina
05-04-2010, 02:03 PM
Allah cannot be understood philosophically.....but you can meet and see Him spiritually!

I disagree, SOM. I think God can be understood in a plethora of ways, one of which is spiritually and another philosophically. It depends entirely on the individual and her/his relationship with the God she/he believes in.

However, although I may be wrong, I think the reason this thread was created is a response to the threads on atheism and how ridiculous atheism is to so many Muslims and other theists. In order for us to understand atheists, we must know their rationales for their disbelief in God, because not all of them were just born into atheism (just like not all Muslims are born into Islam); many actually chose to be atheists upon serious contemplation.

Free Thinker
05-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Allah cannot be understood philosophically.....but you can meet and see Him spiritually!

That is an odd statement, if Allah can't be understood through reasoning and knowledge, what is the reason of believing in an Allah in the first place?

inqilab
05-04-2010, 07:37 PM
First. i do not get into discussions about Allah. It is a humans natural intuition to believe in a Higher being. If you are arrogant enough to suppress that. Then even if i proved to you. it would not matter anyways.

inqilab
05-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Second. i am not someone you can pick. And expect me to be your answering machine. How about you be a devils advocate and answer them yourself.

Third. i came on here to talk to muslims. i will not entertain disbelievers. Although your questions are logically flawed.

inqilab
05-04-2010, 08:16 PM
You know. These people come on here. trying to question us. And then once that is done. They start insulting islam in the name of freedom.

Anyways. i will reply to him. But i will not go back and forth.

inqilab
05-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Hello, I'm interested in having a small discussion with you. Before we begin, I would like you to answer the following questions:

Your questions are average. You could have just answered them yourself. I will not go back and forth. There is a supposed god spot in the brain. Seek to it. And I want you to throw away. All the trash that jews and christians say about god as a whole. Islam is not those ways.

If you say that everything was created by Allah (God), then who created Allah?One of the attributes of Allah. Is that of eternal. By definition. eternal is forever with no beginning, therefore the question is absurd. Only temporal & non-eternal beings are created. By logic. everyone agrees with the fact that there was something eternal which gave life to this universe and its inhabitants. We believe that this eternal. Is everlasting and intelligent being called Allah. And by "being". i do not mean anything created.


Why does Allah not show Himself?Well this can be answered in different ways.

First. Allah tests us and sends guidance to us. Will we obey him without seeing him? This is part of our test. If Allah was clearly watching us, while we watched him. then none of us would even feel inclined to sin out of awe and fear for him. We know it requires faith to believe in Allah without seeing him. Yet there are many signs. That he has given us which help us in accepting and strengthening in our faith. But faith is not based upon blindness.

Second. Allah does not to do ungodly things. By definition. He is not like his creation and not within his creation. If we assume that Allah were to show up. What evidence do you have that you will believe in him?
It is not logical to claim "I will believe in him because he will be in front of me".

The pagans asked for signs from the messenger [s]. And when they saw these miracles. They rejected them still. Called it magic etc.

So what evidence do you have. That you will not say the same?


If you say that Allah is all powerful, can do everything, then can He make a rock so big that He can't even lift?The question is nonsense. It has been answered above. Allah does not do things which contradict one of his attributes. The rock is created and you are comparing it with uncreated. The eternal. By definition. Allah is not like his creation. The laws of the universe do not subject him since he is outside of them. Hence. Cannot be compared to its creation by bringing him into the creation.


Can Allah make another Allah exactly as Himself?Oxymoron. How can you have a god and he is created at the same time? Once something is created. It is not eternal anymore.


Why only one Eternal and Everlasting?By definition. There can be multiple things only because they are distinct from each other. So to say that there can be multiple eternals. Is to say that there are multiple eternal distinctions between the eternals. The supposedly multiple eternals will not fulfill the basic definition of an eternal. The eternal must always have what it needs to create the reality. It cannot get from something else because the eternal cannot change or give up an attribute. in order to get something else.


Why Allah? Why not flying spaghetti monster or invisible flying pink unicorn?we call him Allah because it is one of his unique names. As it means only one who is worshiped. We know him by his names and we use them properly.

"He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.
He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise." [Quran 59: 22-24]

inqilab
05-04-2010, 09:41 PM
You had made a ridiculous claim that not being 100% certain, implies doubts pertaining to ones scientific findings. Can you be 100% certain about your religious faith?

Following a way of life is based on what one believes to be the most convincing. With certainty. It is more convincing to me that Allah is the originator and designer of the universe. And that is why I believe in it. So it is not a black and white thing. But to believe in Allah is not illogical or irrational. And could even be argued for in a probable manner.

ozymandias
05-04-2010, 10:00 PM
But to believe in Allah is not illogical or irrational. And could even be argued for in a probable manner.

Well then, lets see these rational, logical reasons.

inqilab
05-04-2010, 10:02 PM
Umm k? What are you a buddist atheist? lol

The Universe is not created nor will die,

i am not sure what you are getting at here. But it seems self contradictory. So if the universe is not created. Does it go back infinitely? Is this an endless past and present? If present needs an infinite amoutn of time. It can never reach our present. But it has. Then again this is subjective.

that is why we don't need to search for God
God exists or has it to do with explaining the universe are two different things. The average person does not believe in god bc of the universe. They believe in it to understand the meaning to their life. So it is a pretty big assumption. It only comes from your own personal self.


and there is no absolute nature, everything is a dream.

This is meaningless. It is only based upon semantics. No matter how you approach this. It will only come to one conclusion. The universe we acknowledge. is the only existence thatw e know.

Even if all this was a dream. This is all we got and know about. So whether you believe it to be a dream or not. You should still consider it as actual. real.

inqilab
05-04-2010, 10:05 PM
I am not into all this philosophical stuff. I try to follow a different school of thought which is purely based upon textual evidence. I do not associate myself with the philosophical schools that use islam and aristotelian rules.

ozymandias
05-04-2010, 10:10 PM
I am not into all this philosophical stuff. I try to follow a different school of thought which is purely based upon textual evidence.

Then why are you a theist?